Here's a nice one for starters. 9/6 Jacks Triple Meter Stand Alone Progressive. Royal .5%, SF .25%, Quads .25%. 100.72% with card plus any meter buildup when I get there. Not much meter buildup this time there.
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Here's a nice one for starters. 9/6 Jacks Triple Meter Stand Alone Progressive. Royal .5%, SF .25%, Quads .25%. 100.72% with card plus any meter buildup when I get there. Not much meter buildup this time there.
Not much of an increase in pay to justify making "special plays." Great game to play though especially if it awards points per coin in like a normal machine then this game can become +EV very quickly. I don't feel like opening a program but off the top of my head, 10% added to the royal only adds like 0.01% to the return?
That is a nice play MC. I wish I had something that soft to play at the dollar level around here.
Most plays like that in Vegas are at the Quarter Level and not many to choose from.
A good rule of thumb is that 200 coins adds .1% to the meter on the Royal.
A 4 of a Kind Progressive is pretty sweet.
Also a Straight Flush as well.
You can just play all day and night and never go broke.
This is the second time SLaPiNFuNK has tried to discredit an honest and easy AP play that will cause a player no heat.
It is obvious he has the 10% and 20% AP winners in his neck of the woods and the rest of us are just scrounging around for scraps.
These guys don't understand that if you are playing at a 1% winner on a game like this it is worth 50 dollars an hour.
For most people that is a good hourly rate. Currently the Minimum Wage is set at $7.25 in the USA. It hasn't increased in 9 years since 2009.
These guys must be playing this:Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
I have never seen a 9/6 Jacks game with any progressives of any kind. Of course it's a great play.
I would just hate to hit AAAA on it even if there was a small progressive on the payout. And unfortunately both Jason and I have played 9/6 Jacks and we hit AAAA and felt miserable doing it.
Mickey — how would you go about finding a “truer” value of the meters, if you plan on playing until you hit a royal and then stopping? Sure you’ll hit some SFs in between a RF and several 4oaks, but between the last SF & 4oak and end of the session, there’ll be meter move you won’t be able to capture, since you’re planning on quitting after hitting the RF. I don’t think there would be a sizable difference in this case in particular, but I can see how it could be substantial on something else (IE: Aces w/ 2-4 is a high cycle).
Sure, you can play it straight through, 24/7, non-stop, until you die. At least the game you posted. But if a game is a disadvantage at reset, you’re obviously not going to want to do that. This, you’re going to quit at some point, leaving meter $$$ out there.
I don't play much video poker anymore. There is more money in the vulturables at least on the circuit I run. The casino this game is in is on my circuit. I concentrate on the vulturables but use this game to bump the freeplay back up. It had fallen to 4 X 30. So I ran 12K in action to bump it back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
I always like to find a bunch of meter buildup but this time though the meters were pretty low.
That's being shortsighted. The play isn't worth a thing unless the player quits with a profit. And ANY version of JoB is almost always a session loser unless a streak of quads or the royal pops up. So stop with the misleading "AP phantom bucks" nonsense. Anybody who has a real job is far better off than these slugs who collect food stamps, medicaid, welfare, and living assistance and call themselves "ap's" who scrape by with their pathetic living while making anonymous internet posts about how great their "winning" is.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
Someone help me here. I taught my wife to play to help with her mental disabiliy-she also plays bingo to help with her numbers/letters recognition. She would easily know to make this hold. So, is this an attempt to make fun of Rob's special plays, a supposed special play, or a supposed reason to play hour after hour to hit a Royal?
It is hilarious observing you month after month projecting your receipt of government assistance onto others. The rhetoric always gets stronger the deeper into the month we go as you yearn for your next free loading injection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
This is such a long winded post about nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
Keep It Simple Stupid.
You play it when you have the edge.
It does not matter if you hit the Royal or Not.
If you hit a Royal but the Straight Flush is up enough to get over 100% Return you can keep playing it.
The 4 of a Kind Progressive is kinda a big deal.
We don't know what the mailers are or the points.
Either way it doesn't matter. You hammer it when you have the edge.
Plain and Simple.
When it dies the game is out of your rotation.
This is just something to keep adding to the basket.
Having an edge isn’t the only thing that matters. I don’t particularly care about the game mickey posted, as I said there wouldn’t be a sizable difference in that case.
Again, very misleading and dangerous. The reason an ap would play this dumb game is because of the edge, and that edge is only there because of the value of the royal. Plus the other two progressives, when hit, worsen the overall EV.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetThis is such a long winded post about nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
Keep It Simple Stupid.
You play it when you have the edge.
It does not matter if you hit the Royal or Not.
If you hit a Royal but the Straight Flush is up enough to get over 100% Return you can keep playing it.
The 4 of a Kind Progressive is kinda a big deal.
We don't know what the mailers are or the points.
Either way it doesn't matter. You hammer it when you have the edge.
Plain and Simple.
When it dies the game is out of your rotation.
This is just something to keep adding to the basket.
Most people aren't going to hit that royal, which means the longer they play it the more they're expected to lose. And therein lies one of the most glaring hypocrisies of so-called "advantage play" when it comes to video poker. No one should be playing vp based on theory before they begin. It's HOW you play that matters, and no winning or strong player would EVER play JoB unless they're infatuated with the slot club fluff instead of winning money.
I see nothing wrong with playing this game but I'd scream if I hit AAAA and there was no significant quad progressive.
What is your fascination with four aces? Quads are quads. I'm not interested in these very rare high paying hands at the expense of higher paying common hands. #notworthitQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
It's just that hitting AAAA on Bonus Poker is worth 400 coins and 2222, 3333, 4444 are worth 200 coins. So it's quite frustrating when they show up on Jacks. Also both Jacks and Bonus pay double on two pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbWhat is your fascination with four aces? Quads are quads. I'm not interested in these very rare high paying hands at the expense of higher paying common hands. #notworthitQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I know you don't see the point SLaPiNFuNK makes or the point I make or Rob's point either.
As I said I'd be very happy playing this game but hitting AAAA would make me scream.
The compensaton for the extra money in certain quads in 8/5 Bonus is the FH reduced to 8 for 1 and the FL reduced to 5 for 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonIt's just that hitting AAAA on Bonus Poker is worth 400 coins and 2222, 3333, 4444 are worth 200 coins. So it's quite frustrating when they show up on Jacks. Also both Jacks and Bonus pay double on two pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbWhat is your fascination with four aces? Quads are quads. I'm not interested in these very rare high paying hands at the expense of higher paying common hands. #notworthitQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I know you don't see the point SLaPiNFuNK makes or the point I make or Rob's point either.
As I said I'd be very happy playing this game but hitting AAAA would make me scream.
Rob, you were doing fine until "these slugs who collect food stamps....." Once again you are attempting to derail a thread and you've even gotten one trollback so far. If you continue to derail the thread I'll report it to Dan and let him make the decision to ban you from this thread or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerThat's being shortsighted. The play isn't worth a thing unless the player quits with a profit. And ANY version of JoB is almost always a session loser unless a streak of quads or the royal pops up. So stop with the misleading "AP phantom bucks" nonsense. Anybody who has a real job is far better off than these slugs who collect food stamps, medicaid, welfare, and living assistance and call themselves "ap's" who scrape by with their pathetic living while making anonymous internet posts about how great their "winning" is.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
But the bulk of the return for both Jacks and Bonus comes from two pair -- which is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Don't get me wrong. This game you posted is a damn good game to play. I'm just saying if I play it I hope the quads come with 5s thru Ks.
While you're at it have Dan block Axel for making comments about my family.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmRob, you were doing fine until "these slugs who collect food stamps....." Once again you are attempting to derail a thread and you've even gotten one trollback so far. If you continue to derail the thread I'll report it to Dan and let him make the decision to ban you from this thread or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerThat's being shortsighted. The play isn't worth a thing unless the player quits with a profit. And ANY version of JoB is almost always a session loser unless a streak of quads or the royal pops up. So stop with the misleading "AP phantom bucks" nonsense. Anybody who has a real job is far better off than these slugs who collect food stamps, medicaid, welfare, and living assistance and call themselves "ap's" who scrape by with their pathetic living while making anonymous internet posts about how great their "winning" is.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
That was a different thread MendleFool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonWhile you're at it have Dan block Axel for making comments about my family.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmRob, you were doing fine until "these slugs who collect food stamps....." Once again you are attempting to derail a thread and you've even gotten one trollback so far. If you continue to derail the thread I'll report it to Dan and let him make the decision to ban you from this thread or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
You should contact Dan yourself with any complaints you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonWhile you're at it have Dan block Axel for making comments about my family.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmRob, you were doing fine until "these slugs who collect food stamps....." Once again you are attempting to derail a thread and you've even gotten one trollback so far. If you continue to derail the thread I'll report it to Dan and let him make the decision to ban you from this thread or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
You should contact Dan yourself with any complaints you have. Remember, Dan now has a quick and easy option of deleting posts and banning a person from a thread. It doesn't just apply to Singer although he is the main culprit. It's the best way to combat the trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonWhile you're at it have Dan block Axel for making comments about my family.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmRob, you were doing fine until "these slugs who collect food stamps....." Once again you are attempting to derail a thread and you've even gotten one trollback so far. If you continue to derail the thread I'll report it to Dan and let him make the decision to ban you from this thread or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Holy fu*k! Who cares about any of this crap!? You are all "king of the shit pile". Nice going.
You shouldn't read threads you don't like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Yung
It's hilarious watching mickey on his knees over being made to feel bad, similar to the whiny little kew.
Besides, why are all you others not at the Trump rally in LV tonight? Best economic news in years today all across the board--jobs, stock market, wages, unemployment claims....oh wait! Most of you have no idea what the stock market means.
Rob only 54% of American families directly own stocks themselves. I personally do not own stocks now but of course my pension fund is heavily invested in stocks as are most pension funds.
Even if I did invest in stocks at my current age no more than 35% of my assets should be in stocks. But with my pension plan heavily weighted in the market it is prudent for me not to be in the market at all.
By the way you still owe me dinner over our stock market bet. LOL
I don't feel bad about anything, Rob. It's all in your imagination. Please don't continue derailing the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Another freeplay runner. NSUD with a .5% royal meter.
Are you laughing because you know you have a snowballs chance in hell of getting paid. Keep hope alive. Maybe he will come cruising thru town in his camper truck around the 1st of some month. Then he can run over to the dollar store and procure some ribeyes with his EBT and cook them for you on his propane cooktop in the bed of his camper truck. Oh excuse me, the Class A motor coach.....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Nice Hit Mickey!
The last 12 hours on NSUD Dollar Single Line I am down 2300 dollars.
I have not made one set of deuces in that time.
However I did make two sets at once on the Spin Poker Version last night.
I also hit 4 ducks on 5 Dollar BP Progressive Royal Poker with a set of Treys in the next few hands.
I am still waiting to go 20k hands without a quad.
I played 2 hours of the BnsPkr Deluxe Game I posted up and hit 5 sets of quads as well.
I also hit another jackpot which is very rare for me but I don't want to share that information.
I have the pictures and can post them at a much later date.
It seems us losing, busted, degenerate, lying APs are always broke and have no cash.
I'm laughing because I know how INSIGNIFICANT the bet was. To me it was all in good humor. Unlike you and some of the other trolls I know what's important in life and arguing about bets and winning and losing in casinos are NOT important.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPenAre you laughing because you know you have a snowballs chance in hell of getting paid. Keep hope alive. Maybe he will come cruising thru town in his camper truck around the 1st of some month. Then he can run over to the dollar store and procure some ribeyes with his EBT and cook them for you on his propane cooktop in the bed of his camper truck. Oh excuse me, the Class A motor coach.....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
You jerks get all wrapped up over bullshit.
Nice hits Monet. But why is it that so many doubt that Singer could also hit winners? Rob has posted photos on $25/coin machines. Why is it impossible for him to have won about $100,000 per year playing high denominations?
Does it take being an AP to influence a RNG?
It's simple, many hands played on a -EV game will always end up in the red, espesilly with his special plays. Many hands played on a +EV situation will always end up in the black. If Rob has played as many hands on VP as he insinuates, he is in the long run. Or he hasn't/doesn't play as much as he claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Sigh* you held the fifth card.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Monet was also playing a -EV game.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfIt's simple, many hands played on a -EV game will always end up in the red, espesilly with his special plays. Many hands played on a +EV situation will always end up in the black. If Rob has played as many hands on VP as he insinuates, he is in the long run. Or he hasn't/doesn't play as much as he claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Did you look at the paytable? There was no reason NOT to hold all five cards. There was, for example, no bonus if the fifth card was an ace. Mickeycrimm did the correct thing holding all five.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfSigh* you held the fifth card.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Sometimes you go 20 thousand hands without a quad.
Other nights you flop them.
I held all five cards as well but I am nothing but a loser stealing images off the internet.
I had enough deuces. Didn't want anymore. That was my 2nd set of deuces in the session.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfSigh* you held the fifth card.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
He knows that. He was making a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonDid you look at the paytable? There was no reason NOT to hold all five cards. There was, for example, no bonus if the fifth card was an ace. Mickeycrimm did the correct thing holding all five.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfSigh* you held the fifth card.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
For the same reason it is IMPOSSIBLE that you actually saw somebody roll 18 yos in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
It's the math.
I'm going to point out again that Monet posted photos of negative EV games. Let me ask a different question, is Monet doomed to lose?Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVFor the same reason it is IMPOSSIBLE that you actually saw somebody roll 18 yos in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
It's the math.
I missed the joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmHe knows that. He was making a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonDid you look at the paytable? There was no reason NOT to hold all five cards. There was, for example, no bonus if the fifth card was an ace. Mickeycrimm did the correct thing holding all five.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Axel had/has a bounty for a natural 5 of a kind on any game except for "Five Aces Poker"Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI missed the joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmHe knows that. He was making a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Explain this please.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbAxel had/has a bounty for a natural 5 of a kind on any game except for "Five Aces Poker"Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI missed the joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I do remember and it'll happen when schedules permit. I was thinking about it at RR next week but we're leaving around 2am for Lake Tahoe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Yes I predicted wrongly on the market when it was at 15,000 but I got back in at around 17,500. I know not everyone's in the market, but when you see all these scavaging "ap's" claiming the nonsense they say they go thru for a few dollars here and a few dollars there--and when if they REALLY knew what they were doing ap-wise they'd be crowing about the hundreds of thousands they'd be making without having to take a step into any germ-laden/smoke filled casino--it brings out their true intelligence level.
One can only imagine at this time about how most of them feel by wandering in and out of casinos and internet gaming forums, instead having the wherewithal to have gotten a decent secondary education, then a job at a company that had a lucrative company 401k matching contribution plan. They moan over your large royals and my big hits along with my great success playing VP over the past 19 years because the dollar amounts are frightening to them. But if they didn't miss out on the advantages of actually having something called A JOB for at least 25 years, they'd comprehend why the amounts we talk about are simple peanuts. And there'd be zero need for them to say they don't understand but like to crow about, why you announce that you never have had a winning year.
What I'm concerned with is Monet's success on 8/5 Bonus which is also Rob's main game...while our AP friends are apparently ignoring that 8/5 Bonus is a negative expectation game. What's up with that?
Basically if the game malfunctioned and spit out a 5th card of the same rank. I'm guessing suits didn't matter. So say you're dealt 33336 in TDB going for the kicker and the machine goofs and puts out a 5th 3. Axel was willing to pay for a legitimate picture of this. I mentioned Five Aces Poker was excluded because of the Ace of Stars added to the deck making five natual aces possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonExplain this please.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbAxel had/has a bounty for a natural 5 of a kind on any game except for "Five Aces Poker"Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
My guess, point and comp multiplier days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Thanks for the explanation about five cards. I think we'd all like to see an error like that!
I'm curious just what the value on a multiplier day is. At Stations Casinos I can on multiplier days get 6x points on video poker.
$10 coin in gets 1 point so 6x gets 6 points.
1000 points is worth $1.
Since I'm bad at math when does 8/5 Bonus turn positive based on 6x points which is the maximum you can get? (SLOTS can get a max of 10x points.)
What ap's say about this game is exactly what jbjb said they do in order to get the game into "positive" territory. However, doing so doesn't get it into a high enough expectation where they say they play for. Yet if you look the other way for a split second, some say they play it in this manner anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
You figure these people out.
Rob I gave the actual point and multiplier figures for Station Casinos. When does 8/5 Bonus become positive on the maximum multiplier days? By the way, 8/5 Bonus is available as low as 25-cents/coin.
I don't know if my math is correct but the way I figure it, with the maximum multiplier at Station Casinos the return on 8/5 Bonus Poker moves from 99.17% to 99.2-percent.
6X doesn't make it positive. It may get there with 6X on the 25c 8/5 progressives at Borracha's bartops in GVR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
MisterV has posted above that "it's the math" and I'm hoping he'll show the math for the maximum impact of 6x points on 8/5 Bonus. Thanks in advance, V.
He must know the exact or close to it value of mailers as well. But your guess is as good as mine. I'm not familiar with their players club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
He posted photos of mailers. If I recall he had something like $150 per week. Even with X number of free hands played how much more can the return be if he's playing, for example, 500 hands per hour?
And these were photos of $25 spent per hand.
If you think monet adheres completely to at-the-moment positive expectation games, I don't know where you got that idea.
I don't recall anywhere that monet said he adhered to any kind of strict AP playing schedule. He is aware in a precise fashion of returns and multipliers and comp rates, but I believe he makes it clear that he does not always abide by AP standards by playing within the lines, so to speak. My interpretation is that he draws outside the lines both because it sets up his various profiles in a more favorable fashion, and that he's also prone to winging it because he's not always playing on his own cards with his own money. I don't think it takes serious literary analysis to figure this out.
Just because someone can know all of the percentages and can call bullshit on people claiming to win on negative expectation games does not mean they themselves are adhering to every appropriate AP playing rule. "Monet as AP" reminds me more of a MASH surgeon winging it than a precise Boston surgical team. I'm not sure I'd ever use monet as an "AP examplar."
Do your own dirty work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Hell, I don't even play VP.
No, I am relying upon what others have said, coupled to my limited understanding of casino math to conclude that only a fool expects to win playing -EV casino games in the long run.
I play them for fun, I don't expect to win; those who claim to be winners in the long run have figured out a +EV angle, or else they are liars.
After reading what redietz and MisterV just posted (thank you) I return to my previous point. Rob plays the same 8/5 Bonus game. So why can't Rob succeed at it? Of course none of you are calling Monet a loser, are you?
In the long term, yes. In the short term he will have winning sessions. Alan, I'm sure you seen the freeplay mailers that monet has posted. If you know how to work it the amount of freeplay will outrun the loss on the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI'm going to point out again that Monet posted photos of negative EV games. Let me ask a different question, is Monet doomed to lose?Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVFor the same reason it is IMPOSSIBLE that you actually saw somebody roll 18 yos in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
It's the math.
Playing a slightly negative game and generating enough freeplay to turn the game into a positive has been going on for years. It's SOP with AP's.
If he plays -EV games and doesn't employ the usual AP tricks then yeah, in the long run he's a loser.
Hell, I've received quite a few hand pays and I'm not ahead, lifetime, nor do I expect to be.
It was back in the nineties one of Dan Paymar's tips was hold all five cards when dealt quads that cant improve. His reasoning was if you are dealt a card of the same rank it would void the pay. I dont know that its ever happened so take the advice for what its worth. If axel wants a pic of it happening the chances are not good especially if no one is drawing to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI missed the joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmHe knows that. He was making a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Lol, Alan plays at Stations and thinks a 6x multiplier is worth 0.03% and that $10 CI = 1 pt.
You can't make this shit up!
Gee RS I said from the beginning my math was bad. Why don't you give me the correct figure?Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
And regarding Monet's mailers: $150 twice a week is $300 per week and that's 12 hands of $5/coin Bonus Poker. So just how far is $150 per session going to go playing $5 VP?
Also I didn't see any huge buildup of credits on those photos which tells me he didn't hit those quads back to back.
So.... getting back to my original point: why does Monet get a pass while you pour the hostility on Rob Singer?
They don't call him ShortBus MendleFool for nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
Let's go over it again so you math experts can make it right:
$10 coin in at video poker = 1 point
1,000 points = $1
One hand of $25 video poker = 2.5 points
With a 6x multiplier that's 15 points
You would need 66.66 hands of $25 video poker to get $1, or 1,000 points.
Gosh, are you telling me that the return is even less than what I thought?
What grade did you say you made it to axel....and did you get a D or an F in math?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfIt's simple, many hands played on a -EV game will always end up in the red, espesilly with his special plays. Many hands played on a +EV situation will always end up in the black. If Rob has played as many hands on VP as he insinuates, he is in the long run. Or he hasn't/doesn't play as much as he claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
No math teacher or any of redietz' famous university math professors would ever teach that playing mostly -EV games will always mean you lose over any period of time....and vice versa.
And you claim to be a math-knowledgeable AP?
So mickey--you like to get involved in every discussion. Explain how you're able to handle such an embarrassing statement by one of your bunch.
As has allready been pointed out, it was a joke, well kinda. I never hold all 5 unless the game pays more for kickers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonDid you look at the paytable? There was no reason NOT to hold all five cards. There was, for example, no bonus if the fifth card was an ace. Mickeycrimm did the correct thing holding all five.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfSigh* you held the fifth card.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Many years ago on the first VP machines supposedly there were a few instances where people drew to dealt 4 of a kinds and drew a "five of a kind". I'm skeptical. But even if it did happen a few times, I highly doubt there are very many of those type of machines left. Yet, all the VP writers to this day still seem to include this as some great advice. Also, I have seen where people post up pic's and get admonished for not holding the fifth card and they recite the same old BS they have read.
I have been playing VP since the early 90's, and I worked at a casino for about a year in the slot department. I know many people, AP's and non-AP's who have been playing VP for many years and not one of them has ever seen or heard of this happening outside the old rumors.
It kinda started before I was really participating on the forums. I had a friend who believed he was seeing this kinda nonsense(not just the five card thing, other crazy stuff like Rob thinks he sees). I told him the machines were playing tricks on his brain. He swore up and down it was happening all the time. So I made a bet with him that he couldn't ever find a legit scenario he was talking about. Obviously, he never did.
Anyways, I'm not sure exactly how it got started but a few years back there was a discussion about this on WOV. I said it was nonsense and put up a $500 freeroll bounty for anyone that could provide proof. No one ever did, however, I got a few PM's from people trying to pull a few fast ones. Eventually, I canceled the bounty(a few years was good enough because I dont want the hassle of dealing with people taking con shots at me ).
Let's think about this, there is no special reason why this would only happen on dealt4 of a kinds. Why can't you draw to any amount of cards and have the same card show up? If that isn't happening you can be damn sure it isn't going to happen during a dealt 4.
I suspect nowadays it's just as rare as your 18 yos in a row.
You're forgetting: they are AP's. They make their own percentages. They theorize about drawings, tournament values, and even about how much a sunny day is worth. Then if you throw a couple of the tough questions their way, they deflect by bad-mouthing you because they get easily frustrated. Max is a prime example. He made up name for you with "fool" in it, and he still can't get over that we have a camper and a 45' RV. Mr.V's a close 2nd. He admits being a loser and not much of a vp player, yet he has no trouble insulting you about how you play and what you know, and he lies about the best video poker player on the planet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Watch what they grumble about next. And if mickey's feelings get hurt he'll be begging Dan to ban ban ban!
It's another stupid discussion, and no serious player would bother explaining any of that nonsense. Strong players ALWAYS hold all 5 cards when dealt quads unless the hand can be improved upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfAs has allready been pointed out, it was a joke, well kinda. I never hold all 5 unless the game pays more for kickers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonDid you look at the paytable? There was no reason NOT to hold all five cards. There was, for example, no bonus if the fifth card was an ace. Mickeycrimm did the correct thing holding all five.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Many years ago on the first VP machines supposedly there were a few instances where people drew to dealt 4 of a kinds and drew a "five of a kind". I'm skeptical. But even if it did happen a few times, I highly doubt there are very many of those type of machines left. Yet, all the VP writers to this day still seem to include this as some great advice. Also, I have seen where people post up pic's and get admonished for not holding the fifth card and they recite the same old BS they have read.
I have been playing VP since the early 90's, and I worked at a casino for about a year in the slot department. I know many people, AP's and non-AP's who have been playing VP for many years and not one of them has ever seen or heard of this happening outside the old rumors.
It kinda started before I was really participating on the forums. I had a friend who believed he was seeing this kinda nonsense(not just the five card thing, other crazy stuff like Rob thinks he sees). I told him the machines were playing tricks on his brain. He swore up and down it was happening all the time. So I made a bet with him that he couldn't ever find a legit scenario he was talking about. Obviously, he never did.
Anyways, I'm not sure exactly how it got started but a few years back there was a discussion about this on WOV. I said it was nonsense and put up a $500 freeroll bounty for anyone that could provide proof. No one ever did, however, I got a few PM's from people trying to pull a few fast ones. Eventually, I canceled the bounty(a few years was good enough because I dont want the hassle of dealing with people taking con shots at me ).
Let's think about this, there is no special reason why this would only happen on dealt4 of a kinds. Why can't you draw to any amount of cards and have the same card show up? If that isn't happening you can be damn sure it isn't going to happen during a dealt 4.
I suspect nowadays it's just as rare as your 18 yos in a row.
Period.
There have been many posts discussing how people gain an advantage on VP in various diffrent ways. Alan is only interested in, and focused on trying to find ways to discredit AP's and defend his butt buddy Rob.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIn the long term, yes. In the short term he will have winning sessions. Alan, I'm sure you seen the freeplay mailers that monet has posted. If you know how to work it the amount of freeplay will outrun the loss on the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI'm going to point out again that Monet posted photos of negative EV games. Let me ask a different question, is Monet doomed to lose?Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Playing a slightly negative game and generating enough freeplay to turn the game into a positive has been going on for years. It's SOP with AP's.
So exactly how many of these 'various different' ways are there, axel? Or maybe you could identify how many various different ways Alan is interested in discrediting ap's.
7th grade can be tough to get through.
I always read that the reason for holding all five (except when there's a kicker potential) is to:
1. Avoid the error of holding a wrong card. It's simpler to just hold all five.
2. By holding all five there is less likelihood of a machine error dropping a card.
I never heard any rumor about 5oak.
I'd still like someone to tell me what's the value of a 6x multiplier?
I've always heard that cashback and comps had a value of maybe one-tenth of one percent. Even at 6-tenths of one percent is 8/5 Bonus a +EV game?
I'm going to do something I doubt our esteemed APs would do. I'll show you my account at Station Casinos. I have about $2.60 of free play or cash back available. Those of you who call me an addict please take note of that small amount. Also note I have about 135,000 points which is worth about $135 in dining credits. I got that from winning that $400 (400,000 points) from the free drawing in August. I've been eating free, except for tips, every day all during September at Red Rock. The cash back comes from the free play I get and some points from previous months. Today I had clam chowder, a salad and a diet Pepsi. Love their clam chowder on Fridays.
Where did I say ANYTHING about Bob Dancer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
No. I'm trying to figure out why Monet gets a pass for playing a -EV game?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfThere have been many posts discussing how people gain an advantage on VP in various diffrent ways. Alan is only interested in, and focused on trying to find ways to discredit AP's and defend his butt buddy Rob.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIn the long term, yes. In the short term he will have winning sessions. Alan, I'm sure you seen the freeplay mailers that monet has posted. If you know how to work it the amount of freeplay will outrun the loss on the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Playing a slightly negative game and generating enough freeplay to turn the game into a positive has been going on for years. It's SOP with AP's.
And again that free play is only worth 12 hands per month on $5/coin VP.
I have. It's something the ap community has believed in because they never really thought all machines were 100% on the up and up. That ended when I wrote about going to the NGC with evidence of my 5th card flip over theory being true. From then on, I was the crazy guy and not them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
This is Barney,
Now I don't play the video pokers but this week at Indian Casino the LID drew after the four aces and hit a fifth one. The most kind casino personage paid him an extra $100 bonus for hitting the five of a kind.
http://i66.tinypic.com/166dqi9.jpg