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I have read that Las Vegas locals are enamored by video poker and that it is their game of choice.
Given that, I wonder what games a sharp local would play, and and at which casinos, in order to maximize their chances of winning?
Assume they know to take advantage of casino promotions such as multiplied points days.
One other question: is there anywhere in the USA that offers better games / better promotions for VP players than Las Vegas?
I would say, as a general rule of thumb....
Las Vegas has LOTS of small advantage plays. It's going to be very rare to find a huge play in Vegas. Outside of Vegas, there are fewer advantage plays, but they can be worth a whole hell of a lot more. At least in my experience.
A local (AP), is going to be playing at casinos where he gets good offers....but that requires you to come back several times to collect on the offers. Not something that an out-of-towner can really do effectively. There are few things that an out of towner can do and have an "immediate" advantage play -- where his EV is tied up "right now", and not something where you lose up front and collect on the back end.
In other words, this question could have been posed to just about any local 25c vp player in LV, and the same answer would have been arrived at.
And no one knows anything even close to what the story on this is in "other than in LV". Not even mickey, who's casinos of choice are obscure, smaller, western area Indian clip joints.
My impression has been that a lot of LV locals play VP in bars like people elsewhere play those trivia games. As entertainment at low bet levels while they drink rather than working any AP angle, while they drink drinks they paid for and hang out with their friends.
I'm amazed that in every supermarket there is a small "casino" with about a dozen VP machines and about 1/3 are always in use. No free drinks either. Most gas stations have six machines, maybe one in use no matter what time it is. And all over there are local bars and small "casinos" like Dottys. All advertise VP.
Don't ask me what the paytables are. I never looked.
Grocery store VP are the best...
I can't imagine why anyone would play VP in a supermarket yet I see it all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
And I can’t imagine why anyone would gamble when they can’t pay their debts. To each their own Alan. Who are you and I to judge what another person enjoys doing with their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI can't imagine why anyone would play VP in a supermarket yet I see it all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Addition is a terrible thing Alan. Hopefully you get the help you need! I do believe Stations will self exclude you if you ask.
That depends on what's being "added" :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by The BozAnd I can’t imagine why anyone would gamble when they can’t pay their debts. To each their own Alan. Who are you and I to judge what another person enjoys doing with their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI can't imagine why anyone would play VP in a supermarket yet I see it all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Addition is a terrible thing Alan. Hopefully you get the help you need! I do believe Stations will self exclude you if you ask.
Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEj3LA2vSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT9Lm4Y886k
Knowing Alan’s “Adversion” to “Addition “ it’s entirety possible it was a Freudian Slip.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbThat depends on what's being "added" :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by The BozAnd I can’t imagine why anyone would gamble when they can’t pay their debts. To each their own Alan. Who are you and I to judge what another person enjoys doing with their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Addition is a terrible thing Alan. Hopefully you get the help you need! I do believe Stations will self exclude you if you ask.
Or it’s just Spell check doing what it does best.
Either way help is out there Alan, but first you have to admit you have a problem with math.
Exactly you old decrepit broken-down shoe. Why can’t you just shut the fuck up? People like you who like to belittle others, usually are the ultimate losers in life trying to justify their own failures at the expense of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
Try leaving your broken-down shoe wisdom at WOV.
‘Morning Mr Hole! How much did you lose this weekend? It’s Sunday so I’m going to assume you are walking up in your comped casino room wondering where the cash you had Friday afternoon went.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeExactly you old decrepit broken-down shoe. Why can’t you just shut the fuck up? People like you who like to belittle others, usually are the ultimate losers in life trying to justify their own failures at the expense of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
Try leaving your broken-down shoe wisdom at WOV.
I’m as positive as a person can be. I’m sitting on a plane flying somewhere cool. Maybe to Vegas to meet Donald Trump JR & Kimberly at a private fundraiser for Danny Tark. Or maybe I’m just some lowlife without $1000 to my name spreading my misery. Who knows?
But I’m betting I’m close on your situation.
How’s that for Sunday morning positivity Monet? And while your spreading your kindness, can you help Mr Hole? He sure could use a winning gambling trip. Thanks my friend!
No sense responding to you anymore. You no doubt are a full blown broken-down shoe, mental patient, unable to pull your head out of your ass.
Just carry on with you telling everyone else how fucked up they personally are. Funny how you responded in 10 minutes. Are you sitting in front of your computer searching for ways to make yourself feel better?
Looks like Mr Nail hit Mr Hole right on the head. Yea I did reply quickly and if you read my reason you would understand. Right now I’m responding from 32000 feet on my way to somewhere cool as hell. Gogo inflight allows one to keep in touch when they want to be. Does that make me special? No, I don’t see it that way. Just someone enjoying the fruits of hard work.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
So let’s get this straight Hole, you hate AP’s because they beat a system you can’t. You hate me because I live a life you COULD, but are not willing or capable of making the sacrifices it takes.
Either way, enjoy your day! By the way, what time is checkout? Don’t worry, your host will give you a late checkout, it’s the least he could do.
Have drive home!
Double post, so I’ll adjust it. What the hell is your infatuation with shoes?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
If you knew me you would know I’m more of a flip flop or sneakers kind of guy.
And just how does one even get their head in their ass?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Las Vegas locals are considered a "mature market" by the gaming industry. That's a euphemism for saying they've had a generation to get hooked on the "crack cocaine of gambling," video poker. I'm going to attempt to give a short answer -- monet could certainly explain this better and in depth.
If you previously played at some Stations or Boyd properties on Senior days or multiplier days, you were at worst treading water if you play well. Boyd has fluctuated the quality of its vp by casino and over time, sometimes radically. Now it's basically frozen lower end players out of its comp system, so that's a problem. And Boyd has now begun to correlate rating to machines played in a big way. Video poker players are persona non grata. Jean Scott gets into this a little on her LVA blog. She's usually overly positive and chipper, but even she recognizes it's time to hit the trail if you play video poker at Boyd. There is a good discussion on lvadvice.com regarding all this.
Palms used to be a decent vp place, and was 10 years ago pretty great, but no more. Stations seem to be replacing some vp inventory with penny slots, and their comps and such suck, but they may be among the best of what's left.
Westgate just instituted a new comp program, so it's a bit of an unknown. They have some good vp near the sports book. Impossible to say at this point how rating and comps will function with their new program. They folded the race/sports betting into the main comp program in a permanent fashion this week.
If I play much vp in LV, I'll be playing at Westgate and Four Queens downtown until I find something elsewhere. I'd check vpfree for the latest updates on games in other states. Dan had some insights on Cherokee Casino's idiosyncrasies in my neck of the woods. Given the pullback in Las Vegas, I'm sure other locales are superior, but mickey and monet would know. Basically, you're likely to find better vp in non-mature (i.e. not addicted for a generation) locales.
Back in 2014 I thought it was over and seen the writing on the wall or the door closing in fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
This was during the tail end of the Plaza Promotion.
4 Years later and it is really over now for Video Poker, that is in Vegas.
You can still play quarters and make 10 to 20 dollars an hour and eat for free but for the most part it is getting really ugly and over.
I got to hit a few good things in 2016 and that looks like the end.
As you already stated Boyd is dead for now and it isn't even that great for reel players at Boyd with the new system.
Many VP players are done with them and not just the pros but just your High Rolling Hawaiians are pretty upset and done with them.
Ten Years ago I told some long time local players that we would all be back in the poker room.
We all met playing poker in the mid 90s actually and I had a conversation last night with someone I have known since that time.
We both agreed that you better learn the new style of Reel Progressive Machines if you want to keep at it but realize the heavy competition in Vegas.
One could be like the other AP Teams on these boards and get into the Pit and whatever it is that they do but I think you have two choices.
Live Poker because Online Poker is far too much work and heavy collusion or just get out and do something else.
A few APs I've known of gave up VP because working for the Casino is now more profitable than hustling it.
Better to Hustle/Steal from inside the Casino once again.
Take one guy for instance playing quarter VP in Vegas in the late 90s to early 2000s.
He was making 80k per year playing quarters believe it or not.
3% or better winners were all over the place. Promotions and Paytables were downright crazy.
IMO if you were to play quarters today for a living you would make about 20k to 25k per year.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe some of these sharper guys know where the better quarter games are but that is my observation.
I was at the Orleans last night to check on a few things.
They downgraded the triple play quarters and nickles that used to have 9/7 double bonus to 9/6.
I am not sure of when the downgrade happened so it could be over a year now.
My point is they don't want to give you anything.
I even seen a prominent semi famous poker player in the Orleans Poker Room playing 15-30 8 or Better.
Times must be tough!
One other option is to beg kewlJ to take you under his wing and teach you his ways.
He seems to be able to make plenty of money playing in the Pit unrated.
I am sure some serious sharpies are still killing it but gone are the VP days where money was all over the floor.
High paying vp is the exception rather than the rule in the indian casinos. A 2000 machine casino might have only 20 video pokers. Typical game selection is 8/5 Jacks, 6/5 BP, 8/5 DBP, 7/5 DDBP. Forget games in the 98 to 100% range. They dont exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
The money in the Indian casinos is in the vulturable line games.
When I’m in an Indian casino that I haven’t been in before, I consider 7/5 bonus a good game and 9/5 JOB a great game. If I see something above 99% I get a little suspicious.
Mickey, Ak-Chin has 10/7 DB in dollars. So you're right--Indian casinos have nothing in the 98%-100% range :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmHigh paying vp is the exception rather than the rule in the indian casinos. A 2000 machine casino might have only 20 video pokers. Typical game selection is 8/5 Jacks, 6/5 BP, 8/5 DBP, 7/5 DDBP. Forget games in the 98 to 100% range. They dont exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
The money in the Indian casinos is in the vulturable line games.
I'm not certain about Ak-Chin as I've never been there, but I agree with Rob here. I know of plenty of Indian joints with high 99% games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerMickey, Ak-Chin has 10/7 DB in dollars. So you're right--Indian casinos have nothing in the 98%-100% range :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmHigh paying vp is the exception rather than the rule in the indian casinos. A 2000 machine casino might have only 20 video pokers. Typical game selection is 8/5 Jacks, 6/5 BP, 8/5 DBP, 7/5 DDBP. Forget games in the 98 to 100% range. They dont exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
The money in the Indian casinos is in the vulturable line games.
Both the games I've put up so far in the video poker plays thread are in indian casinos. Ran about 40k total action and am slightly in the black on both games. Freeplay not included. Only play them to bump freeplay offers.
Arizona casinos not on my circuit. Could possibly be in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerMickey, Ak-Chin has 10/7 DB in dollars. So you're right--Indian casinos have nothing in the 98%-100% range :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmHigh paying vp is the exception rather than the rule in the indian casinos. A 2000 machine casino might have only 20 video pokers. Typical game selection is 8/5 Jacks, 6/5 BP, 8/5 DBP, 7/5 DDBP. Forget games in the 98 to 100% range. They dont exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
The money in the Indian casinos is in the vulturable line games.
Rob, try to bone up on your reading comprension. Try to figure out what "exception rather than the rule" means.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbI'm not certain about Ak-Chin as I've never been there, but I agree with Rob here. I know of plenty of Indian joints with high 99% games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerMickey, Ak-Chin has 10/7 DB in dollars. So you're right--Indian casinos have nothing in the 98%-100% range :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
So after all the garbage you posted here and on WoV, it only took me getting personal with you on your life long losing gambling habits to get you to ignore me. If only others had figured it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
I now wonder if you are actually Coach Belly and many of the same losers jealous of those who have found a way to make a living off casinos.
Hell even Monet has figured out what you can’t. Even if it takes him fucking naive “partners” over again and again. You have to respect someone like that, willing to fuck anyone and everyone over for a dollar. And it seems the jackass ZenKing is in his sites next.
As for being banned like Keystone. Face it most of us are gone if Dan is facing the ultimate Bad Beat and sells/ gives the forum back to Alan and the kid who loves his dad no matter what. Hopefully Slappy kids are not suffering from Grandpa’s addictions.
By the way, did you get that late checkout Mr Hole? And are you getting a nicer room next week?
WoW! You and some other members on these sites really have the wrong perception or impression of me and how I conduct myself in life for the last ten years.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
It is true that when I was 16-24 years old I was a downright dirty rotten scoundrel but even during that time period it wasn't as bad as you might think or paint it on your posts.
If I was such a bad guy I would of stolen AxelWolf's 4 grand he flashed at ZK and myself while playing pool.
This was one time in a long time that I only had 500 cash on me because I didn't feel that I needed money on me at that meeting and it didn't seem like a smart idea.
Axel drank a good amount of Captain Morgan and even fell asleep in my car. I have/had two 45 acps on my driver side that I could pull out at any time.
I wouldn't of needed them to steal his money if I wanted to. I actually have never strong armed someone personally or held them up at gun point or bashed them over the head for money or anything.
I explained a few months ago that I had something stolen from me that was worth 16 grand and I just blew it off.
The insurance company told me that I would have to file a police report and jump through some hoops to make a claim.
I just let it go. I didn't even blink on it even when my wife wanted retribution or some money for the theft.
My feeling is that nobody harmed me or my family. I had something personal stolen from me. Happens all the time to everyone.
I have stolen plenty in my life but it is usually from corporations. Not personal individuals.
However, I said that you have to have the mindset to screw over anyone at anytime. You are basically in the Jungle and you need to have the right mind to act accordingly.
I have also stated that stealing from friends, family or people in general is the same thing as stealing from Casinos or Corporations.
Stealing is Stealing no matter how you want to paint it.
Most of my criminal activity in life has been petty embezzlement which if very common in most work places.
When I ran Poker Tournaments I was skimming an average of 150 dollars a day. I made enough to cover a new car and got out when the getting was good.
I wouldn't set ZK up. I most likely wouldn't set him up in my house. I just kinda feel for the guy because I understand where he is coming from.
However, it would be too much of a bother for me to take care of my own family and have ZK running around my house with free reign.
I just don't know him well enough to allow him to have that kind of freedom in my own house.
For the record, I have only met ZK once in real life. I hardly text him but he has texted me about 3 or 4 times asking basic questions.
He asked me about current procedures with Valet Parking. He asked me about renting apartments in Vegas.
Other than that I basically warned him to be careful with meeting people or players from online because things are completely different online compared to in person.
I don't mind you painting me as some horrible person but just get the facts straight and paint the picture the way it is supposed to be painted.
Try not to just make things up out of thin air and embellish the facts when you honestly don't know any of the facts.
If I was really trying to hustle people from online I would be in constant private messages trying to meet up with people.
A few facts are this:
I met AxelWolf and ZK and paid for all their drinks and time playing pool.
I lost about 30 dollars to each of them playing pool for money.
I drove Axelwolf to a destination of his choice because he was fall down drunk and I have seen it for over 20 years in this city.
I didn't want to leave him stranded and I had no problem giving him a free ride that he accepted when I offered.
Plain and Simple. I drove up by Rainbow and Washington and dropped him off at the 7-11 on the corner.
I had to wake him up and he stumbled out of my car and made it home alright it appeared because the next day he was posting on WoV about it.
I took his number but hardly ever contacted him ever again except when the Lucky Dragon was running a promotion.
I took a picture and sent him a copy of the rules.
Now with ZK I took his number and hardly contacted him but when he texted me I answered all of his questions.
The other person I met is your beloved green mod BBB.
I put her 3 day stay at the 4 Queens on my account.
Not only that but I put my credit card on her room to cover any incidentals with the intention to pay for everything with my abundance of comp.
I took her for a nice dinner at Hugos. Dinner was around 300 dollars and I bought us an 800 dollar bottle of wine that actually sells online for 500 dollars.
I also covered the complete tip that was in cash for the 1100 dollar meal which I tipped out 200 dollars to the Server, Sommelier and The Maître d'.
Not only that but I used my comp to buy her a couple packs of cigarettes and a fully stocked fridge of all sorts of drinks that were too sugar/corn syrup based for her system.
I ended up taking them home after she checked out and headed to the airport before I paid for the room.
She ordered room service and paid for the 18% gratuity in cash so no harm no foul because I asked her not to make me pay for her tips with room service.
I also let her use the room number to buy anything in the restaurants that she wanted and I picked up the tabs with my comp.
I never contacted her again after dinner. I answered a couple of her questions. I made it clear online that she couldn't handle my workload.
She kept hinting at wanting to play for me for a percentage or hourly. I am not an employer. I honestly could not see us working together with how I AP.
You have the whole story/stories wrong. I never contact anyone. They always contact me and I oblige them with whatever they ask of me.
Paint me as a monster if you want, which is fine with me but get your story/facts straight.
Trust me Monet, I know all the stories. Good people, but I have no idea what they were thinking in dealing with you. I can only assume from my interactions with them, they had good intentions and were looking for a win/ win situation that could be mutually beneficial for everyone. Without screwing anyone over.
As for not ripping Axel off, most of us have been in that position to steal from someone. And possibly gotten away with it. But decent people don’t think that way, nor do they use it as proof they are “decent”. Most of us would have taken a drunk friend home, giving a friend an extra room, loaned them money interest free, etc. It’s what decent people do and never mention it.
And we certainly don’t use it to justify other bad behavior. Nothing I post about you or anyone else doesn’t come making logical assumptions based on your posts.
More importantly is why do you care what I or anyone else here thinks about you? Keep doing what you do, if it’s worked so far, keep it up.
My unsolicited advice? Take care of those you care about, honor any obligations and live life to it’s fullest. We are all on the clock.
I don't really care. Just get the story straight. Don't paint me to be something I am not.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
I am not trying to justify it. How am I some great friend to these people? I only met them once and hardly interacted with them online!?
I would hardly call that some Friend as you put it.
Either way, whatever BoZ... Just keep on doing what you do which is nothing for this site or others.
The best that you do is make fun of people whom you do not agree with or like.
Carry On, Business as usual. I will just stop reading your comments so we won't have any more conflict with one another.
Monet, I can live with that. Thanks and enjoy the being, for whatever the being may be for each of us!
I think I understand your need and desire to convince anyone that might listen or might even care about what you allege as fact. For some reason you believe by just reading anonymous posts by anonymous people with anonymous claims, you have the gifted wisdom to call for fact everything about these anonymous people’s existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
Unless you knew someone for most of their life your assumptions of that person could be a different story. But, you’re just another anonymous jerk on anonymous forums talking shit looking down on everyone you don’t agree with. It’s sad and probably too late for you to ever realize how pathetic you appear to most wile in your golden years.
I couldn’t care less about AP’s, BP’s, CP’s, and what they do or how much they allege they make. For their well being I hope it's all true. From what I could tell, I think my life was blessed since I never or ever had to consider such a pathetic life being forced to gamble playing games and counting on the math for my future and its outcome. Of course, everything in life to a degree is a gamble at one time or another, but you guys are talking about the outcomes of actual casino games. From what I read over the years a majority of alleged AP’s actually boast about coming from the drudges of society.
My only argument is proof of alleged claims. Other than well-known AP’s we read about, not one alleged AP on these forums have ever produced confirming facts. Just alleged AP’s confirming other alleged AP’s who don’t even know each other, or if they do hardly enough to know actual financial facts.
So, I’m going to make a claim now without any proof. I think one of my back yards is worth by itself, more than everything you own combined together.
Take a walk you fucking BOZO idiot.