Complaint to the NGC

Suncoast Casino blew it tonight and violated regulations of the NGC regarding a drawing. I first complained to management and when they did nothing I called the NGC and they immediately sent over an investigator. The outcome of regulatory matters is kept confidential, I was told, but the NGC says Suncoast blew it. Below is my post on Yelp and what I told the NGC:

I am troubled by the lack of customer service exhibited by a manager in the casino. During this evening Slot Shift Manager Eddy Pais was announcing that the cutoff time for entries in the "Celebration Spin" drawing was 8pm.

At 7:58 PM I went to a kiosk to swipe my Players Club card to activate my entries, but the machine failed. I immediately went to the Players Club booth to report the problem and to have them activate my entries. The booth representatives including the Manager "Inna" confirmed that I was there reporting the problem at 7:59. This was not the first time a kiosk failed to register entries, by the way.

But when I informed the booth representative about the problem they showed me what they called "new rules" that all entries were due by 7:45 PM.

Keep in mind that Manager Pais was announcing the 8pm cutoff. In fact at 7:45 PM I was actively playing on the casino floor.

What Suncoast did, whether they acknowledge it or not, is kept many players from activating their entries and disqualifying themselves from the drawing.

Both Slot Shift Manager Pais and the Players Club Manager said nothing could be done.

Pais maintained his announcements over the PA system didn't matter and only the official rules count. But both Pais and the Club Manager concede the rules were just changed.

I and many other players were cheated out of our entries because of this incompetence.

When they refused to activate my entries I asked that they summon a representative of the Nevada Gaming Commission and Pais refused my request. Instead, he gave me his business card with the number of the NGC written on it.

This is poor customer service, especially for managers. I have been an active player at Suncoast but this SECOND instance of a kiosk failing to register entries and the negative way that two casino managers handled the problem after announcing false info to all the players in the casino now makes me reconsider playing here.

I'm not a "small player." I have Seven Stars status with Caesars and Chairman status with Station Casinos.

Suncoast certainly knows how to kill a relationship with a customer with a lot of playing potential.

I did follow up with a complaint to the Nevada Gaming Commission. A casino shouldn't have entry kiosks failing and managers shouldn't be announcing false and misleading information to players. In fact the NGC investigator I spoke with said the casino needs to be clear about its posted rules. Manager Pais should not have been announcing incorrect information about their drawing rules. The NGC says this is a regulatory issue.

You blew it, Boyd Gaming. Shame on you. Treat your customers better and get your rules straight... especially with your managers.

Alan, I just went to the Borgata website. I read several upcoming promotions. Everyone of them had this statement in the promotions explanations. "Subject to change or cancellation."

Your story sounds good, but rings the same bell frugal Dan's stories ring. These stories seem to come from people spending to much time in casinos looking to closely at the floor while walking hoping to find a coin or chip to pocket.

I guess we could consider some of these moves as backdoor AP'ing. Look what you pulled off with the door / scratch incident.

EDIT TO ADD : Might you know if Dan ever came forward with the details why he was 86'ed not knowing why? Or is that still in litigation? Can't find that thread....

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Alan, I just went to the Borgata website. I read several upcoming promotions. Everyone of them had this statement in the promotions explanations. "Subject to change or cancellation."

Your story sounds good, but rings the same bell frugal Dan's stories ring. These stories seem to come from people spending to much time in casinos looking to closely at the floor while walking hoping to find a coin or chip to pocket.

I guess we could consider some of these moves as backdoor AP'ing. Look what you pulled off with the door / scratch incident.

EDIT TO ADD : Might you know if Dan ever came forward with the details why he was 86'ed not knowing why? Or is that still in litigation? Can't find that thread....

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https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...-casino-advice

Blackhole this wasn't a case of small print saying rules could be changed.

Per the NGC: you can't have one set of rules on paper and announce different rules to the casino players.

The investigator dispatched to the Suncoast called me last night and I met with him both before and after he talked to casino personnel.

Suncoast will receive a letter of reprimand. If it happens again they will be fined. But it's hard to imagine they'll make this mistake again.

Their Slot Manager of all people should have known that their rules changed.

I don't recall Dan ever identifying the casino or his specific whine. Dan lacks credibility. If he had something he should say what it is.

I caught Suncoast. They have about five kiosks for making entries. I'm going to guess that more than 200 other players were not entered into the $2500 drawing because of the cutoff at 745pm. At 7:59 I saw at least eight players in line at two of the kiosks.

By the way, the NGC will dispatch investigators 24/7 when there are complaints. The investigator I met with last night had just been over at the MGM.

I wonder whether Suncoast / Boyd will now ban you from entering / gambling at any of their properties?

Maybe they now consider you an irksome trouble-maker.

If so, do you think you'd have legal recourse to oppose the banning?

MisterV I've been thinking the same thing! LOL

I just had my free Saturday morning breakfast buffet, and when I swiped my card I got a free entry to the 11am craps tournament. But who knows what will happen next week!

I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but given my understanding of how the trespassing statute is enforced in Nevada I suspect they could trespass you "just because" and you'd be without a remedy to force them to accept you back into the fold.

Wicked world.

Believe me, V. Being told not to return to Suncoast wouldn't be a great loss.

I've been kicked out of better casinos. LOL

Sure you have.

But if Boyd bans you from Suncoast the ban would likely apply to any of their other properties, wouldn't it?

They have ten or so casinos in Las Vegas.

V... why are you trying to make a big deal out of this. I don't care if Boyd blocks me, trespasses me, or no mails me or anything else.

You make it seem my life centers around Boyd.

Frankly it's the last thing on my mind.

The reality is Jacquie wants me to move back to LA. She hates casinos. I will gladly give up casinos to make her happy. More news is coming. Stand by.

Update on the dice tournament: what I thought was a free tournament isn't a free tournament. The voucher that I got at the kiosk this morning only showed I was eligible to enter. They wanted $25 plus $10 for an add-on. I said no thanks.

Tournaments are okay when they're free. I would never pay.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

V... why are you trying to make a big deal out of this. I don't care if Boyd blocks me, trespasses me, or no mails me or anything else.

You make it seem my life centers around Boyd.

Frankly it's the last thing on my mind.

The reality is Jacquie wants me to move back to LA. She hates casinos. I will gladly give up casinos to make her happy. More news is coming. Stand by.

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It's none of my business, but if you continue to pursue this relationship, you are destined for unhappiness and the relationship will undoubtedly fail, Alan. :(

"She wants me to move back to LA". "She hates casino's".

Do you see the problem Alan. Apparently "she" needs you to be something that you are not. :(

Not trying to be mean here. You are who you are and you are a man who enjoyed gambling and casinos. Absolutely nothing wrong with that if you do so responsibly.

If you try to change for her, because you think she is some sort of "trophy" wife or girlfriend, you will be miserable in a very short period of time.

If you are in need of companionship Alan, find someone that shares your interests. You can't force these things as you are attempting to do.

On the other hand, if alan feels gambling has become problematical for him and if he is looking for something else to help fill up the time this might fit the bill.

He'd really need to WANT to change in order for it to have the slightest chance of working out, though.

Nothing wrong with reinventing oneself, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

On the other hand, if alan feels gambling has become problematical for him and if he is looking for something else to help fill up the time this might fit the bill.

He'd really need to WANT to change in order for it to have the slightest chance of working out, though.

Nothing wrong with reinventing oneself, I suppose.

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Fair enough MrV. But I just don't see that here, in both this latest statement and others. It has been all "She wants this", "she doesn't like this".

I am not trying to get out of "my lane" and into the relationship advice field. God knows I am having my own issues and just hate that I am even in the playing the single's dating game again. But it is what it is. You just can't completely change who you are to suit someone else. Even if they are pretty and/or the sex is good. That will last like a minute. Find someone that shares your interests. Or at very least isn't "opposed" to your top interests. :rolleyes: That really HAS to be the starting point, if you are looking for anything that will last any length of time.

Thanks for your advice guys. I'll take Jacquie over any casino... day or night.

Frankly I go to casinos out of boredom. It's always been that way. It certainly isn't a source of income for me. LOL

I first dated Jacquie about four years ago. I made a mistake letting her go then. This picture is from four years ago. (Yes I had a belly.)

Just curious: as this gal doesn't like gambling, what new activities which see likes do you see yourself gravitating to?

We both play tennis. We both enjoy movies and comedy clubs and eating out. (I always eat out.) And it's really nice to spend the day together just doing normal things.

We spent about five hours at the Forum Shops during New Year's. We left with her "major purchase" of three pairs of tennis shoes at H&M (a discount store) costing less than $20 total. Oh... we also ate ice cream while window shopping.

PS. I have two Varsity letters in tennis.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Frankly I go to casinos out of boredom. It's always been that way.

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Complete hogwash! You freaking got married in a casino. You love casinos and gambling. It is the top priority in your life.

who are you lying to here, us or yourself?

I really am not trying to pick on you Alan. I sincerely hope it all works out for you. Seems like a longshot from where I sit. Like an 18 y.o's in a row longshot. :rolleyes:

Remember Shelley was a gambler and so were the members of her family. And her Uncle was once Chairman of the NGC. Getting married at a craps table was natural. We all played craps afterwards. LOL

Kewlj the reality is you have no choice. You have no other job skills, right? You're a professional blackjack player. I don't criticize you for that. But I am not a professional gambler. You are.

Discount tennis shoes but a Louis Vuitton bag... hmmmmm. Why post her picture.

Alan, even though you included an unnecessary jab at me in your subsequent post (calling my complaint about my unfair ban a "whine"), I will say that I agree that you were in the right here, and I'd also have been really angry.

However, I see exactly how this happened.

These drawings are so computerized nowadays that the staff is powerless to alter anything. They can't just say, "Okay, Alan, you're right, we will let you play at 7:59pm this one time, because of the confusion."

They can't. The computer system will not let them override it.

I dealt with a similar-but-different situation at a downtown LV casino over the summer. They accidentally gave me someone else's player's card when I signed up, and I then ran play (unknowingly) for that person instead of myself! They told me that Nevada Gaming forbids them to transfer or copy "her" action over to my account.

The best they could do was approximate a "courtesy" rating for me, and I got screwed, because my play was under-rated (I know because a friend played at the same time, also with a new card, and got much better offers!)

So while I would have been annoyed in that spot, I would have also understood that the people there (including the manager) could not remedy it, due to technological limitations. Rather than go to Gaming, I would have asked them for some kind of small comp to make up for my trouble -- maybe a free dinner or something.

Sometimes you need to differentiate between employees intentionally being difficult, and ones whose hands are tied by an over-controlling computer system. In the latter case, you need to get creative and suggest ways they can rectify it to your satisfaction.

Let me give the details of this promotion to show you how easily Suncoast could have fixed this.

Suncoast had a $2500 prize pool. Play $5 and you get a free entry. You pick one of six colors. If your color is picked you and everyone who picks the color shares the $2500. (In the past I've won between $16 and $32 choosing the color pink.)

There were four problems here, Dan.

1. The kiosk that didn't work for me and several others in line behind me was one problem. This happened once before and Suncoast awarded me my win as a courtesy. So post drawing adjustments have been made before.

2. The second problem was everyone else at kiosks after 745pm who didn't get confirmations that their entries were in the drawing.

3. Third problem was that the slot shift manager was announcing the wrong cutoff time. (This is the NGC regulatory error.)

4. The poor customer service with no effort to resolve any problem. Remember the slot manager admits he announced the wrong cutoff time because he says he wasn't told it was changed.

Even when I brought to their attention at 7:59pm that problems 1-3 existed, they could have made an announcement asking players who failed to have their entries loaded to come to the rewards desk. There they could have written their card number and choice of one of six possible drawing outcomes. Then after the actual drawing only those who correctly chose the drawing outcome would have to be dealt with.

My estimate was perhaps 200 players were disqualified. Even if all 200 couldn't have signed a sheet in 15 minutes, it would have been done in 20 or 25 minutes. By delaying the draw by as much as ten minutes Suncoast could have saved itself a citation from the NGC and kept 200 players happy.

As it happened the color red was chosen. Suncoast only had to deal with those among the 200 who wrote red. If 1/6 chose red, it would have meant dealing with only about 33 players... instead of now dealing with the NGC.

Let's get back on topic.

Alan, I am still not understanding how you think they could have entered you in the drawing.

The drawing is by computer. After 7:45, the computer closes the entries. They cannot reverse it.

There is no way they can correct it, unless I'm missing something.

That's why I said you should have just asked for something comparable -- like $25 in food credit.

I moved the "Caesars relationship" posts to a separate thread: https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...aesars-for-300

The kiosk problem happened once before. I went to the Players club, they checked my history of entries and saw I always picked pink, and gave me the money when pink was picked but the kiosk failed to record my entry.

Yes, the Slot Manager could have offered me something but he didn't.

One early morning I showed up to play craps at Suncoast ($5 tables) and NO GAME was operating. I asked the tables supervisor when a game would open. He said three hours and gave me a $25 breakfast comp at DuPars. That was good customer service.

They could have used a sign up sheet for the maybe 200 players effected and manually made payouts or comps.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

The kiosk problem happened once before. I went to the Players club, they checked my history of entries and saw I always picked pink, and gave me the money when pink was picked but the kiosk failed to record my entry.

Yes, the Slot Manager could have offered me something but he didn't.

One early morning I showed up to play craps at Suncoast ($5 tables) and NO GAME was operating. I asked the tables supervisor when a game would open. He said three hours and gave me a $25 breakfast comp at DuPars. That was good customer service.

They could have used a sign up sheet for the maybe 200 players effected and manually made payouts or comps.

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They have to justify where the money goes when they give it away.

I'm guessing the manager didn't want to admit to his supervisors that tons of people missed the drawing because he screwed up.

Sometimes it's easier to ask for a solution which doesn't leave a paper trail to their bosses, and everyone walks away happy.

What I never got into was just how rude the slot manager was. I only wish I had my cell phone camera recording.

Yes, he could have solved the problem with me easily and I wouldn't have called the NGC but he took the "fuck you" approach to his own error.

If... and this is a big if... Suncoast says they want to do something for me I will want nothing less than an apology directly from that slot manager. There's no excuse for a MANAGER acting the way he did towards me.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Frankly I go to casinos out of boredom. It's always been that way.

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You've been gambling for many years, alan.

Are you really saying that back in your early gambling days you went to the casinos out of boredom?

I recall your posts on AVLV, back when craps was your game: you freakin' LOVED it, and loved to talk about gambling.

I'd have thought that a quasi-celebrity such as yourself would have many opportunities to do interesting things, and that boredom would set in after you basically retired.

Guess I was wrong.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

What I never got into was just how rude the slot manager was. I only wish I had my cell phone camera recording.

Yes, he could have solved the problem with me easily and I wouldn't have called the NGC but he took the "fuck you" approach to his own error.

If... and this is a big if... Suncoast says they want to do something for me I will want nothing less than an apology directly from that slot manager. There's no excuse for a MANAGER acting the way he did towards me.

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First off, everyone please stop trolling this and other threads. I know some of you dislike Alan, but don't just randomly attack him. (I deleted 10 messages in this thread.)

Anyway, I still say the NGC call was overkill here.

If the slot manager was rude (which I believe he was), you should find out who his boss is, and report him.

When you call the NGC like this, you end up looking more like the jerk here. The slot manager will simply tell his boss, "Yeah, I made an accidental mistake by announcing the wrong time, and this one guy flipped out and called the NGC on me, because there was no way to honor his entry. I tried to explain it was impossible and apologize, but he just wanted to see the casino get in trouble!"

Pretty sure his boss will believe him, since casinos hate when the NGC is called on them.

Again, I maintain that the correct approach would have been to ask for a $25 food comp, and then complain to an upper manager if refused. That's what I would have done.

Dan... his rudeness precluded asking for a comp. You have no idea how he verbally attacked me when I told him what happened.

This guy flew off the handle.

I posted earlier how a tables game manager gave me a comp when they had the craps tables closed. I didn't even ask for it. But this slot manager went on the attack and didn't even concede he made an error.

In fact when I first approached him about the error (after I was at the players club) he marched away and wouldn't talk to me. And I approached him calmly.

When he returned he had the new rules in hand and said something like -- it doesn't matter what I said here are the rules.

Well, when a manager says it doesn't matter what he said while showing me the rules I would say it's time to call in the NGC.

And that's when the manager blew it again. HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED when I requested that the NGC be called. Instead he gave me their phone number -- another error.

Wait, there's more.

He said he didn't have to call because the amount was under $400, but it was a $2500 drawing.

Wait, there's more.

He was also announcing that only a $1 minimum machine bet was needed to enter, and I was going to bet only one hand of 25-cents VP. But as it turned out I hit a couple of small winners so I had $10 of actual betting recorded. Other table players who made only a $1 machine bet wasted their dollar as that wasn't sufficient to be entered. The new rules called for $5 minimum bet.

Let me just add this: before an NGC agent was dispatched to the Suncoast I had to talk on the phone with three NGC persons to explain what had happened. All three agreed that Suncoast was wrong about their announcements being incorrect and it was a violation. The NGC agent met with me both before and after he spoke with Suncoast personnel and confirmed to me they violated regulations.

The Suncoast slots shift manager was in error on multiple levels and never said anything like what can we do to make up for this.