Eldorado Resorts buys Caesars -- what you need to know

Huge news today, as Eldorado Resorts has bought Caesars for $8.7 billion.

Here are some answers to questions you probably have:

(NOTE: The below info is my personal analysis, and not the result of any official statements from either company.)


Why was this sale made? Was it related to Caesars' bankruptcy of a few years ago?

Partially, but not really. Investor Carl Icahn, who held 10% of Caesars, has been increasingly putting pressure upon Caesars to sell, stating that it was the best way to raise its stock value. Icahn recently acquired a few seats on the Caesars board and has been increasingly influential at the company. The rest of the board didn't really want to sell, but Icahn finally made it happen. Indeed, the sale valued Caesars stock at $13/share, which was substantially higher than its last close at $9.99.



What is Eldorado Resorts?

While not as well known as Caesars, Eldorado Resorts holds 26 properties around the US. Their best known brands are Isle, El Dorado, Lady Luck, and Tropicana (NOT including the Tropicana Las Vegas, which has different ownership). They also own a Circus Circus in Reno, but NOT the one in Vegas. They own three properties in Reno (Eldorado, Silver Legacy, Circus Circus), one in Atlantic City (Tropicana), but none in Vegas.



Are the Caesars properties going to change names?

At this time, no. They will all continue under their existing brands. Note that Eldorado has bought other properties in the past, and mostly kept their existing brands intact.



What will happen to Caesars Rewards (Total Rewards)? Should I spend my Rewards Credits immediately?

Caesars Rewards will remain the same. This is one of Caesars' most valuable assets, and it is highly unlikely it would be dismantled. Your Reward Credits will almost surely remain completely intact. It is possible Caesars Rewards will change names, as it just did earlier in 2019.



What will happen to Club One, the existing rewards club for Eldorado Resorts?

At the moment, nothing. However, it is likely going to be rolled into Caesars Rewards sometime in 2019.



What will happen to the World Series of Poker? Will it change? Will it move out of the Rio?

The WSOP was already likely to leave the Rio in 2020 once the Caesars Convention Center (on the Las Vegas strip) is complete. That has nothing to do with this sale. The WSOP itself is not likely to change, as it is wildly successful, and again is one of Caesars' best assets. The existing WSOP management (Ty Stewart, Jack Effel, Seth Palansky) is also likely to stay in place.



What changes will the typical Caesars customer see after the sale?

Very little. You will have more properties where your Total Rewards status will apply, and you will probably get the higher of your two status between Club One and Total Rewards (though both might take a little time). It is possible El Dorado will sell some underperforming properties, but that is not in the plans at this time.



What new markets will be part of the former Caesars empire?

Blackhawk (Colorado), St. Louis, Pompano Beach (Florida), Westlake (Louisiana), Shreveport (Louisiana), Columbus (Ohio), Evansville (Indiana), Waterloo (Iowa), Boonville (Missouri), Caruthersville (Missouri), Cape Girardeau (Missouri), Greenville (Mississippi), Lula (Mississippi), Vicksburg (Mississippi), New Cumberland (West Virginia).



I am banned at Caesars properties. Does this mean I'm able to come back?

Sadly, no. In fact, it's the opposite. If you are banned at Caesars properties OR Eldorado properties, you will soon be banned at this new combined group of properties, as the ban lists will likely merge.

*Dan’s opinions and speculation of what it means, not facts.

You'll see that all of this comes true, but yes, this is all from my analysis and not stated by either company (yet).

Basically true Dan. A concerned player called me over to talk to one of the security guards as he had been drinking and I was basically trying to avoid him- thinking possibly it was just. Conjecture on his part. He verified and only said it had a lot to do with management. FWIW, the Horseshoe and Elderado are the two favorite casinos here. The Horseshoe is my main play- I played Elderado when it was Hollywood 10 years ago- so now I will have two choices without trying to build up free play in two places. Strange as it may seem, a change of venue is great and I'm not too fond of Margarittaville here.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I am banned at Caesars properties. Does this mean I'm able to come back?

Sadly, no. In fact, it's the opposite. If you are banned at Caesars properties OR Eldorado properties, you will soon be banned at this new combined group of properties, as the ban lists will likely merge.

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This is According to policy I assume? The real question is can you be arrested for trespassing in any of those situations?

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I am banned at Caesars properties. Does this mean I'm able to come back?

Sadly, no. In fact, it's the opposite. If you are banned at Caesars properties OR Eldorado properties, you will soon be banned at this new combined group of properties, as the ban lists will likely merge.

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This is According to policy I assume? The real question is can you be arrested for trespassing in any of those situations?

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I've always wondered that, too.

I got banned at a "certain chain" of properties about 20 years ago, and they added a new one. I was wondering if I could go there without being arrested, as that new property was not named when I was trespassed (because it didn't exist). It also wasn't obvious that this property was one of theirs by its name, so I could always claim ignorance.

I decided I probably could, but I'm not sure what the law says.

I've since had the ban rescinded anyway, so today it's a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by mcap

*Dan’s opinions and speculation of what it means, not facts.

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Dan mentioned that they own three properties in Reno:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

While not as well known as Caesars, Eldorado Resorts holds 26 properties around the US. Their best known brands are Isle, El Dorado, Lady Luck, and Tropicana (NOT including the Tropicana Las Vegas, which has different ownership). They also own a Circus Circus in Reno, but NOT the one in Vegas. They own three properties in Reno (Eldorado, Silver Legacy, Circus Circus), one in Atlantic City (Tropicana), but none in Vegas.

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So then has Tamarack Junction changed ownership or were they never owned by El Dorado ?

At one time the El Dorado was a pretty good video poker spot. All of the bartops used to be $1 9/6 Jacks progressive. Every bar on the same meter probably 50 machines total. So good numbers frequently developed. They also had full pay joker poker. And for awhile they had 20 coin $1 full pay deuces. Tuna and his team messed that play up. The card was worth .6% comp and the mail was pretty good. When I lived in downtown Reno I ate free at the El Dorado restaurants and buffet almost everyday.

It was the multi-game video pokers that messed up the 9/6 Jacks progressive. They left the progressive in when they installed them but the public then had a choice of a dozen games so the progressive got little action because of it.

JSTAT has posted information which already confirms some of what I said.

https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1143114680363184128

What's the anti-trust issuing involving Harrah's? The new company would own too much of downtown Reno?

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

What's the anti-trust issuing involving Harrah's? The new company would own too much of downtown Reno?

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And South Reno, since El Dorado probably owns Tamarack Junction even though it is not listed on their website as one of their properties.

The Eldorado still has a dozen or so machines with all full pay and or 100%+ games on them. That type of thing is not conducive to how CET/Total Rewards players play. Most of them play to get points and silly card status instead of to win money. Of course nothing is for sure, but smartmoney says every single Diamond and Seven Stars player who either reads or posts here, is a gut-wrenching loser who is so addicted to the dwindling rewards CET doles out that they will continue going to shitholes like the Rio, Harrahs Reno, and Harrahs Lake Tahoe to continue dumping their discretionary income.

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

What's the anti-trust issuing involving Harrah's? The new company would own too much of downtown Reno?

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And South Reno, since El Dorado probably owns Tamarack Junction even though it is not listed on their website as one of their properties.

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Tamarack J is not associated with Eldorado Resorts and is independent.
Thank goodness for that. It's Steakhouse and Thurs./Fri. night lounge happy hour is the best in N. Nevada.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Tamarack J is not associated with Eldorado Resorts and is independent.

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LOL:
ir.eldoradoresorts.com/file/4512023/Index?KeyFile=1001193534

From reading that it looks like its at least 6 years old. Do they still have that minority ownership (oops--I mean "governorship" in order not to offend our fabulously diverse NBA) today? I mentioned they were independent because I talk to their mgmt. occasionally and that's how they described TJ.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

From reading that it looks like its at least 6 years old. Do they still have that minority ownership (oops--I mean "governorship" in order not to offend our fabulously diverse NBA) today? I mentioned they were independent because I talk to their mgmt. occasionally and that's how they described TJ.

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Since LLCs aren't required to file annual reports (I believe the LLC is under the umbrella of the corporation so it wouldn't show up in the required annual corporate report), you can ask their management at your next shindig over Hors d'oeuvre. Based on the similarity of their VP offerings and paytables (ED and Tamarack Junction) along with a 2014 transfer of ownership to the ED Holding Company (see below) I would say it is quite likely. So, at present, I would say it is being held by the holding company arm of the firm. Maybe Regnis or Mister V could provide further insight.

An excerpt from the 2018 annual report of Eldorado resorts, llc.

"Resorts previously owned a 21.3% interest in Tamarack Crossing, LLC (“Tamarack”), a Nevada limited
liability company that owned and operated Tamarack Junction, a casino in south Reno which commenced operations
on September 4, 2001. On September 1, 2014, and as a condition to closing the Merger, Resorts distributed to
HoldCo, and HoldCo subsequently distributed to its members on a pro rata basis, Resorts’ interest in Tamarack."

Thanks folks.

What I HAVE known about TJ is that they had some of the most generous double up machines years ago. Another place with a bar having 25c thru $10--all with the same 9/6 payable on ddbp.

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Originally Posted by regnis

An excerpt from the 2018 annual report of Eldorado resorts, llc.

"Resorts previously owned a 21.3% interest in Tamarack Crossing, LLC (“Tamarack”), a Nevada limited
liability company that owned and operated Tamarack Junction, a casino in south Reno which commenced operations
on September 4, 2001. On September 1, 2014, and as a condition to closing the Merger, Resorts distributed to
HoldCo, and HoldCo subsequently distributed to its members on a pro rata basis, Resorts’ interest in Tamarack."

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Much appreciated Regnis. - TP

I feel obligated to mention this. Despite the fact that CET claims that RCs and such will remain unchanged, which I believe WILL be the case, this is not what happened when Harrah's took over Caesars Palace, lo those may moons ago. In race and sports, despite assurances at every level from ticket writers to the sports book manager, comps that were already on file were reduced in value by 60%. Not the comp rate, but already earned comps. People took huge hits.

I mention this to highlight the fact that nothing is assured when there is a takeover.

CET has and can do whatever they say they will or whatever they want to do without saying it. They've screwed over their loyal players before, they've continually eroded club value, and the reason they know they can get away with these things is because they know how addicted so many of their Diamond and Seven Stars players are to their slot club status.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

CET has and can do whatever they say they will or whatever they want to do without saying it. They've screwed over their loyal players before, they've continually eroded club value, and the reason they know they can get away with these things is because they know how addicted so many of their Diamond and Seven Stars players are to their slot club status.

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Perhaps some will NOW understand why I don't just keep replaying my wins to win "millions" with the strategies. I'm still maintaining one better LEAVE after a reasonable win. And I once enjoyed a dual buffet twice a month that now has suddenly degraded to a single buffet twice a year. I AM excited about the Elderado as the Horseshoe has seen a rapid decline in the VP machines.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

CET has and can do whatever they say they will or whatever they want to do without saying it. They've screwed over their loyal players before, they've continually eroded club value, and the reason they know they can get away with these things is because they know how addicted so many of their Diamond and Seven Stars players are to their slot club status.

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Perhaps some will NOW understand why I don't just keep replaying my wins to win "millions" with the strategies. I'm still maintaining one better LEAVE after a reasonable win. And I once enjoyed a dual buffet twice a month that now has suddenly degraded to a single buffet twice a year. I AM excited about the Elderado as the Horseshoe has seen a rapid decline in the VP machines.

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This has nothing to do with it. You cant "win millions" because it WON'T "win millions."

Here's a heads-up from the Las Vegas Advisor. "Anthony Curtis" quotes from the Wall Street Journal: "Part of Eldorado's success is its management's ability to slim down on unnecessary guest inducements, such as free drinks and hotel stays. Caesars has done better in this regard, too, cutting its perks in half to roughly 14% of revenue since 2016. But Eldorado is better: Its similar metric is around 10%."

As Scooby would say, "Ruh Row."

I love that phrase, "Unnecessary guest inducements." LOL. Once your addicts have reached a certain "maturity" (that's the biz term), I guess you gotta wean them off the freebies. Make 'em pay. Through the nose, baby.

Well, this should be a fine self-imploding mess. It's a shame I'm not gonna live another 40 years to see independents buy out these failing, flailing mega-corps.

Note: I actually have a reasonably intelligent observation. Since CET income was increasingly from non-gaming sources, and since El Dorado probably derived a smaller percentage of their revenue from non-gaming sources than did CET with its huge shows and clubs, the fact that El Dorado pumped just 10% back into inducements actually suggests this is worse than it looks for people who actually gamble. And it does not look good.

Doe's anyone know about reward credits earned with the Total Rewards Visa card? Are these rewards SAFE? Should they be spent quickly before El Dorado "SLIMS DOWN"?

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Originally Posted by redietz

Here's a heads-up from the Las Vegas Advisor. "Anthony Curtis" quotes from the Wall Street Journal: "Part of Eldorado's success is its management's ability to slim down on unnecessary guest inducements, such as free drinks and hotel stays. Caesars has done better in this regard, too, cutting its perks in half to roughly 14% of revenue since 2016. But Eldorado is better: Its similar metric is around 10%."

As Scooby would say, "Ruh Row."

I love that phrase, "Unnecessary guest inducements." LOL. Once your addicts have reached a certain "maturity" (that's the biz term), I guess you gotta wean them off the freebies. Make 'em pay. Through the nose, baby.

Well, this should be a fine self-imploding mess. It's a shame I'm not gonna live another 40 years to see independents buy out these failing, flailing mega-corps.

Note: I actually have a reasonably intelligent observation. Since CET income was increasingly from non-gaming sources, and since El Dorado probably derived a smaller percentage of their revenue from non-gaming sources than did CET with its huge shows and clubs, the fact that El Dorado pumped just 10% back into inducements actually suggests this is worse than it looks for people who actually gamble. And it does not look good.

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Redietz, isn’t this the way all business promotional programs work? They give you something (coupon, rebates, free something, etc) to get you hooked on their product and then when you are hooked (some, mostly liberals, call it “addicted”) they back it off. That’s just good business.

I think the phase “ unnecessary guest inducements” is the correct way of saying it. If your customer is already hooked on your product, and going to use it with or without the inducements, then the inducements are unnecessary. I expect they are tracking this with computer programs with the player’s card.

It’s never made sense to me how so many APs don’t understand casinos are a business and their purpose of existing is to return money to their shareholders or the people who own them, if they are privately owned. A well run casino is just doing what they should be doing by reducing comps to players that will play with or without them.

LOL. Bob21, sounds as if you should be living here with me, on the eastern Tennessee border, intersecting southern Virginia and western North Carolina. You'd fit right in with all of the tobacco execs.

You may have mistaken me for someone who buys into the casino model as just your average, everyday business using the proper, societally approved capitalist means of attracting and keeping customers.

If you want to debate what is or isn't addicting, I suggest someone other than me. Someone with real expertise in addiction. Maybe get in touch with those who have spent a lifetime scientifically studying it. I'm sure you can hold your own. I suggest, as a starting point, reading "Addiction By Design" by Natasha Dow Schull. After you've read it, you can contact her at natasha.schull@nyu.edu or give her a call. You can then post your debate with her right here for all to appreciate. If things don't go well with her, I have a friend in the neuroscience med school at ETSU who just got a couple of large grants. He's been studying addiction for more than a decade now -- he might be willing to debate you, also. But not during basketball season -- he likes his hoops.

Anyway, good luck in your debates. I'll ask you every month or so how the debates are going for you, just as a motivation.

P.S. In case anyone is wondering my attitude regarding casinos as businesses, I'm of the same mind as Erik Killmonger in the movie, Black Panther. "We're gonna burn them. Burn 'em all." I'm also good with the finale of Stephen King's "The Stand."

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Originally Posted by redietz

LOL. Bob21, sounds as if you should be living here with me, on the eastern Tennessee border, intersecting southern Virginia and western North Carolina. You'd fit right in with all of the tobacco execs.

You may have mistaken me for someone who buys into the casino model as just your average, everyday business using the proper, societally approved capitalist means of attracting and keeping customers.

If you want to debate what is or isn't addicting, I suggest someone other than me. Someone with real expertise in addiction. Maybe get in touch with those who have spent a lifetime scientifically studying it. I'm sure you can hold your own. I suggest, as a starting point, reading "Addiction By Design" by Natasha Dow Schull. After you've read it, you can contact her at natasha.schull@nyu.edu or give her a call. You can then post your debate with her right here for all to appreciate. If things don't go well with her, I have a friend in the neuroscience med school at ETSU who just got a couple of large grants. He's been studying addiction for more than a decade now -- he might be willing to debate you, also. But not during basketball season -- he likes his hoops.

Anyway, good luck in your debates. I'll ask you every month or so how the debates are going for you, just as a motivation.

P.S. In case anyone is wondering my attitude regarding casinos as businesses, I'm of the same mind as Erik Killmonger in the movie, Black Panther. "We're gonna burn them. Burn 'em all." I'm also good with the finale of Stephen King's "The Stand."

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Redietz, you went off on a what is an “addiction” tangent. Please reread my post. That wasn’t my point in making my post. It was you poking fun of the phase “unnecessary guest inducements”. There is no reason to poke fun at this practice since all companies do this. That’s just smart business. Once you get a customer hooked on your product, then it makes sense to stop or reduce the “inducements”. If a customer will use your product with or without these “inducements”, why should a company keep incurring this expense?

As far as arguing if casinos are different than other businesses they aren’t in the fundamental aspect that their purpose is to make money for their shareholders. This is why all businesses exists. If they didn’t make money, they wouldn’t exists. It’s that simple. It’s another debate arguing over the methods any business uses to make money. If you think it’s wrong for a company to stop or reduce inducements to their loyal customers than most businesses are guilty as charged.

Back to my point. All well run business back off of their incentives once they get their customers loyal (or “addicted” using your preferred word) to their product. In the case of casinos, that product is gambling:

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Originally Posted by Bob21

As far as arguing if casinos are different than other businesses they aren’t in the fundamental aspect that their purpose is to make money for their shareholders. This is why all businesses exists.

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Sorry, but I have to rank making money as only third as to why a business exits. There are a lot of non profit businesses. My health care provider is one of them. The number one reason why a business exits is to make a product or service for consumers. I rank second, its to provide jobs for employees and I rank third the shareholders. If it was only the shareholders no company would give to charity or even treat their employees decently. Of course, some employers treat their employees like shit, but many don't.

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

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Originally Posted by Bob21

As far as arguing if casinos are different than other businesses they aren’t in the fundamental aspect that their purpose is to make money for their shareholders. This is why all businesses exists.

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Sorry, but I have to rank making money as only third as to why a business exits. There are a lot of non profit businesses. My health care provider is one of them. The number one reason why a business exits is to make a product or service for consumers. I rank second, its to provide jobs for employees and I rank third the shareholders. If it was only the shareholders no company would give to charity or even treat their employees decently. Of course, some employers treat their employees like shit, but many don't.

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You’re wrong Bosox. Your answer is the classic liberal answer to why businesses exists. I lived in the northeast for a while so I get how the northeast liberals think.

First to your point about a non-profit business. Let’s keep this discussion to business that are trying to make a profit. A non-profit business is a tax-exempt organization formed for religious, charitable, artistic, health, educational, etc purposes. This is NOT what I’m referring to. Casinos are not non-profit organizations.

Private businesses are started for the sole purpose of making money for their owners, or in the case of public companies, for their shareholders. No one starts a private business for the purpose of providing jobs. Jobs are a by-product of a business. I’m surprised you didn’t know this. Sounds like you’ve been living on one of the left coasts too long. You need to move to the south or midwest where you can learn something. Lol.

As far as a business providing a product or service to make money, of course that’s true or the business would go out of business.

When a corporatation looks at expanding or developing a new product, they do this with one consideration in mind. How much money will this make our shareholders. Business don’t expand for the purpose of providing more jobs. It’s a by-product of their expansion, which they see as making more money for their shareholders.

Bosox, one more comment. I reread your post and I can see that you don’t get it when it comes to businesses. The reason most businesses treat their employees decently is because this is the best way to retain the top talent, which does guess what? Makes the most money for their shareholders.

Business that don’t treat their employees decently usually go out of business or do poorly. The profit motive is actually the best motive for marking sure businesses treat employees decently. A satisfied employee works harder and does more to help his company, which in turn drives more profit to the shareholders.

One of the best examples is Chick-fil-A. Look at its stock over the past 10 years. It’s doing better than all their fast food competitors. While they have good food, one of the primary reasons is how well they treat their employees. This translates into more money to their shareholders.

Contrary to what most liberals think, the profit motive of a business is the best motive for companies to treat its employees and customer “decently”. There you learned something, and you didn’t even need to move to the south. And this lesson was free.

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Originally Posted by Bob21

The reason most businesses treat their employees decently is because this is the best way to retain the top talent, which does guess what? Makes the most money for their shareholders.

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Not always, and that business model doesn't do what shareholders really want. It is not enough in the shareholder model to make a steady profit. What the shareholder model needs is GROWTH, which means MORE profit every year. Eventually what many businesses have to do to achieve this is cut costs. Generally this involves a loss of quality, but there is a lag time before the customer notices, if at all. Ideally, the shareholders sell during this lag time before the profits and share prices fall and leave some other sucker holding the bag for when the bubble bursts.

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

If it was only the shareholders no company would give to charity

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Giving to charity is a tax write off, as well as a form of marketing/advertising.

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Originally Posted by pepe

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Originally Posted by Bob21

The reason most businesses treat their employees decently is because this is the best way to retain the top talent, which does guess what? Makes the most money for their shareholders.

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Not always, and that business model doesn't do what shareholders really want. It is not enough in the shareholder model to make a steady profit. What the shareholder model needs is GROWTH, which means MORE profit every year. Eventually what many businesses have to do to achieve this is cut costs. Generally this involves a loss of quality, but there is a lag time before the customer notices, if at all. Ideally, the shareholders sell during this lag time before the profits and share prices fall and leave some other sucker holding the bag for when the bubble bursts.

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Of course, not always. Businesses are run by people and people are fallible, make mistakes, and yes there are some bad people in our country. So all business aren't going to make the right decisions all the time. The good news is poorly run companies go bankrupt, and well run ones usually don't. Well run companies treat their employees decently and pay more so they do better. Contrary to what liberals think, the profit motive is the primary motive for why companies treat employees well.

But as far as what Shareholders want...they want profit, as much profit as possible. They really don't care if the company is a growth company or not. That is why we invest in the stock market...to make money. People who pick individual stocks try to find the ones that will make them the most money. Sometimes these are growth stocks, sometimes they are not...they are dividend stocks. I don't know how much you know about stocks or companies but by your post, it doesn't appear like much.

As far as companies cutting costs (which I'm assuming you mean laying people off), this usually happens when a company is making something the market no longer wants. This happens in a dynamic market. We all know what happened to the stagecoach companies. They went out of business when cars came into play. Blockbuster went by the wayside because people no longer rent videos. But what about amazon? It keeps expanding and hiring more people. This is what happens when a company is making or doing something the market (us people) want.

I can see you have a liberal perspective of the stock market. You need to understand it goes up in the long run. If you buy and hold, no one will be left to hold that bag (as you said, we don't want any sucker holding any bag. lol). Everyone will be a winner! If you follow this strategy, you will have made more during any time period over any other asset, real estate, gold, bonds, etc. The key is don't try to time the market. Invest some money every year (really every month - that's what I do) during your lifetime and you'll become a very wealthy person.

Btw,do you and Midwest Player live close together? It doesn't look like either one of you understand basic economics or how companies work.

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Originally Posted by pepe

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

If it was only the shareholders no company would give to charity

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Giving to charity is a tax write off, as well as a form of marketing/advertising.

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By the way, I don't think any company should give to charity. People should give to charities. A company should do what it's designed to do....make money for it's owners, which as a by-product provides jobs, and a service and/or product to us consumers to make our lives better. The free market system is what gave us our high standard of living. Personally, I don't want my company choosing a charity to give too. This should be done by individuals or outside groups like churches, etc. I know all businesses do this now, since liberals don't understand what a company's purpose is.

It's got to where I can't buy something at a fast food place in my area without them asking me if I want to donate to some charity they've chosen. I usually tell them no, give me my food I just ordered, I'll decide on my own what charity I'm going to support. I'm polite when I do this. But it does aggravate me that most retail shops (Walgreens just started doing this in my area) always want me to donate something to some charity. I get it that they will usually match my donation. This new trend with businesses is probably the result of people like MidWest Player who think this is a great idea. Liberals love the idea of other people supporting charity, and businesses doing everything except what their primary purpose is.

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Originally Posted by Bob21

I can see you have a liberal perspective of the stock market. You need to understand it goes up in the long run. If you buy and hold, no one will be left to hold that bag (as you said, we don't want any sucker holding any bag. lol). Everyone will be a winner! If you follow this strategy, you will have made more during any time period over any other asset, real estate, gold, bonds, etc. The key is don't try to time the market. Invest some money every year (really every month - that's what I do) during your lifetime and you'll become a very wealthy person.

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You make the mistake of assuming growth will last forever. Eventually the bubble bursts. This isn't a "liberal" perspective, if anything modern so-called "conservatism" is actually just another form of liberalism.

The real truth is our economy is all smoke and mirrors. We hardly make any actual product of real value anymore. It's like a giant pyramid scheme, thats why neocons and neolibs alike want to import the entire third world, so they can have more consumers to keep reselling the same product to at ever increasing markup.

GDP and stock prices are not a measure of the real economy. The real economy comes from things actually being made, something we don't really do in this country anymore, because it's cheaper to outsource it to the Third World, or import third worlders because they work cheaper and are willing to put up with worse living conditions because it's still better than their home country, which brings standards down for everyone except the people at the top, the 1% elites.

Many of us hoped Trump would do something to put a stop to this, but so far he has been all talk.

But you probably don't care, you're likely a boomer and will be dead before the bubble bursts. (I judge you as a boomer because you haven't yet left behind the tired old concept of "liberal" (aka neoliberal) and "conservative" (aka neoconservative aka liberal driving the speed limit).

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Originally Posted by Bob21

The free market system is what gave us our high standard of living.

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Don't see how, because we have never had a "free market system".

The "free market" libertarians jerk off to is just as much of an unattainable unicorn as the "classless society" communists jerk off to.

The reality is, power will continue to concentrate where it is already concentrated. Government, corporation, it makes no difference. Any organization with too much power will use it to gain more.

It doesn't matter whether you vote Republican or Democrat. Both are owned by the same powers that be, the whole thing is a dog and pony show.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pepe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob21

The free market system is what gave us our high standard of living.

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Don't see how, because we have never had a "free market system".

The "free market" libertarians jerk off to is just as much of an unattainable unicorn as the "classless society" communists jerk off to.

The reality is, power will continue to concentrate where it is already concentrated. Government, corporation, it makes no difference. Any organization with too much power will use it to gain more.

It doesn't matter whether you vote Republican or Democrat. Both are owned by the same powers that be, the whole thing is a dog and pony show.

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Tableplay, good carton! This is the reason Trump came to power in America. It’s because the American people, both Democates and Republicans, saw that both parties were beholding to the same people, those in power who didn’t care about the little guy who works. This is also what brought Reagan to power, and we all know how much the liberals hate Reagan.

l agree, over time, the Republican Party has become not much different than the Democrate Party. Both do what they can to stay in power. Trump did something that shocked the pundents and the world. He won by appealing to the working man and women in America, the people who make this country work, the people who pay taxes and obey the law. His message wasn’t to the freeloaders, the illegal aliens, the criminals...you know, the people the Democates and liberal Republicans cater to.

The liberals, like MidWest Player, hate Trump because Midwest Player and others have become robot zombies still believing the lies of the left. Heck, Midwest Player probably still beleieves poverty programs help people, rather than keep them down.

To your point pepe, I agree with much of what you had to say....and Trump does too. As a country, you have to make something to add value. Trump does NOT agreed with all the trade agreements that both parties have signed over the years, and led to jobs and manufacturing being outsourced to other countries. This is partly what brought Trump to power.

Trump is trying to renegotiate these trade agreements. This doesn’t happen overnight, but he’s making progress. Currently, he’s doing that with NAFTA and he’s done it with our China trade agreements. I don’t have time to post all the articles on this. Please google Trump and trade agreements and you’ll find a lot of articles on this. Again, Trump is making progress, but you got to remember it’s an uphill battle. He’s working against all MidWest Player’s liberal friends in congress who only care about power and don’t care about the little guy playing by the rules or our freedoms. These liberal Democates and Republican have got a lot of people like Midwest Player brainwashed, so it’s not going to be easy. It takes time to unbrainwash these people.

Think about it. Midwest Player doesn’t even know the primary reason businesses operate. Sad.

One last comment: Because MidWest Player is a liberal and probably got dropped on his head multiple times as a baby, you’re probably going to see him go back to the liberal’s playbook and call me a racists. This is the go-to-name liberals call people when they are losing a debate.

Bob21 wrote:


"One last comment: Because MidWest Player is a liberal and probably got dropped on his head multiple times as a baby, you’re probably going to see him go back to the liberal’s playbook and call me a racists. This is the go-to-name liberals call people when they are losing a debate. "


Bob, can you at least give the guy a break! MWP, is a nice guy who has provided very well for his family throughout his life. He only periodically instigates trouble just like you do only you do it on a regular basis. Overall MWP has been a real good member on blackjack boards over the years.

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Originally Posted by BoSox

Bob21 wrote:


"One last comment: Because MidWest Player is a liberal and probably got dropped on his head multiple times as a baby, you’re probably going to see him go back to the liberal’s playbook and call me a racists. This is the go-to-name liberals call people when they are losing a debate. "


Bob, can you at least give the guy a break! MWP, is a nice guy who has provided very well for his family throughout his life. He only periodically instigates trouble just like you do only you do it on a regular basis. Overall MWP has been a real good member on blackjack boards over the years.

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Bosox some of what you say might be true, but Midwest Player also called me a “closet racist”...and there was nothing I said in ANY of my posts that touched on the issue of race. This hit a nerve in me. I lost a lot of respect for MidWest Player when he did this. I understand this is what liberals (and Midwest Player admitted he’s a liberal) do. They call people names when they aren’t intelligent enough to defend their position. But I still find it unacceptable. So yes, I will fight back (figuratively).

Go back and reread the posts in the thread Midwest Player started where the title said he wasn’t you, or something like that. In fact, he called everyone a name in this post who is a Trump supporter, which I definitely am.

Has Trump done everything right since he’s been in office? Of course not. No president has ever satisfied everyone. But he’s sure done a lot to move the needle to help the little guy who works and plays by the rules. He’s one of the first presidents who appears to care about the little guy and what made our country great. I know liberals continue to make fun of him and Midwest Player has obviously drank the cool aid, so he makes fun of anybody that supports Trump

If Midwest Player is such an upstanding citizen within the bj community, I think he owes all the Trump supporters an apology for calling them “closet racists”. I get most APs are liberals but there are still some of us conservative APs out there.

You have to be bordering on retarded to not realize that people can start businesses over whatever objective/values they have. There is no law of nature that says you start a company to make money. You could start one for ego reasons. Tons of reasons, really. Not that hard for most of us to grasp, so please STFU.

I'm sure somewhere someone has made a company to lose money due to some tax scheme !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob21

.........called me a “closet racist”...and there was nothing I said in ANY of my posts that touched on the issue of race. This hit a nerve in me...............

But he’s sure done a lot to move the needle to help the little guy who works and plays by the rules. He’s one of the first presidents who appears to care about the little guy and what made our country great.

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Bob, Trump is a racist. It is as simple as that. There is a long list of things that indicate he is a racist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial...f_Donald_Trump

If you support somebody who does racist things, that makes you racist. Again pretty simple.
https://freebeacon.com/politics/cnns...rs-are-racist/

I do think most folks are somewhat racist. I ask you if you had a chance to buy one of two houses that were exactly the same, but the family living next to one was black or Muslim what house would you chose? Now be honest.

Now I haven't had any chance to really know any folks of color. There are basically no colored folks in the U.P. There are now a few with the colleges on athletic scholarships, and if they get in any trouble it isn't unusual for the judge to say either leave the U.P. or go to jail. My high school graduation class was 100% white. So my views are pretty much stereotypes, but I try to look beyond that.

And as far as Trump doing anything to help the little guy and the middle class, that is the biggest bullshit lie I ever heard. When Trump passed the tax cut bill to help his rich buddy's do you know what I did? I actually increased my income tax withholding. I was already close to the $24,000 standard deduction limit by my itemized deductions and I lost the two personal exemptions. We now have the largest deficit in history thanks to Trump. Watch my words we will have runaway inflation in the next few years like we did in the 1970's, all thanks to Trump.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

Watch my words we will have runaway inflation in the next few years like we did in the 1970's, all thanks to Trump.

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If this happens I hope it will then lead to 16% yield certificates of deposit (to get inflation back in check) like it did during the early 80's.

To top matters off Trump now wants to go against the Supreme Court and still ask the citizenship question on the census. This guy should be impeached immediately.

Of course we can all boycott the citizenship question. And that is what I hope everyone does if it is on the census. I rather pay the $100 fine than to see Trump pull another fast one.
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/19/60362...ill-be-counted
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/13/221

By the way, can you pass the citizenship test. I got 10 out of 10 correct.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/us/us...rnd/index.html

MWP wrote:

"Now I haven't had any chance to really know any folks of color. There are basically no colored folks in the U.P. There are now a few with the colleges on athletic scholarships,


So my views are pretty much stereotypes, but I try to look beyond that. "



Really! I would hate to see what the rest of your high school graduation class thinks like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob21

.........called me a “closet racist”...and there was nothing I said in ANY of my posts that touched on the issue of race. This hit a nerve in me...............

But he’s sure done a lot to move the needle to help the little guy who works and plays by the rules. He’s one of the first presidents who appears to care about the little guy and what made our country great.

---

Bob, Trump is a racist. It is as simple as that. There is a long list of things that indicate he is a racist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial...f_Donald_Trump

If you support somebody who does racist things, that makes you racist. Again pretty simple.
https://freebeacon.com/politics/cnns...rs-are-racist/

I do think most folks are somewhat racist. I ask you if you had a chance to buy one of two houses that were exactly the same, but the family living next to one was black or Muslim what house would you chose? Now be honest.

Now I haven't had any chance to really know any folks of color. There are basically no colored folks in the U.P. There are now a few with the colleges on athletic scholarships, and if they get in any trouble it isn't unusual for the judge to say either leave the U.P. or go to jail. My high school graduation class was 100% white. So my views are pretty much stereotypes, but I try to look beyond that.

And as far as Trump doing anything to help the little guy and the middle class, that is the biggest bullshit lie I ever heard. When Trump passed the tax cut bill to help his rich buddy's do you know what I did? I actually increased my income tax withholding. I was already close to the $24,000 standard deduction limit by my itemized deductions and I lost the two personal exemptions. We now have the largest deficit in history thanks to Trump. Watch my words we will have runaway inflation in the next few years like we did in the 1970's, all thanks to Trump.

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Okay MWP where do I start with all these liberal accusations you’ve thrown out there. I read it all and didn’t see anything racist in Trump’s comments or actions. Big deal the Dept of Housing accused Trump’s company of racists practices. This is what all these liberal government agencies do. They go around attacking businesses. All these accusations are the same ‘ol typically attacks that liberals have been making against conservatives forever.

First for some basics, since it appears you’ve been living in a cave for most your life. Trump basically ran on two platforms: 1) stop illegal immigration and 2) stop all these one-sided trade agreements, which is causing our country to outsource manufacturing jobs.

No 1 is the main reason Trump is labeled a racists by liberals. Anybody who believes in the rule-of-law is considered a racists by liberals. Why? Because there are more people of color in prisons than white people. In their screwed up mind, this statistic proves America is a racists country. Since there are more black NBA players what does this prove?

Here’s the thing you and your liberal friends miss. We’re a nation of laws, and some of these laws deal with immigration. There is a legal way of getting in our country. This is how my forefathers entered this country. They didn’t illegally try to get into through a back door. Illegal immigration has been ignored by both parties. The Democrats obviously like it because every 10 years they give these people amnesty and they now have another voting block.

Liberals believe code words for racists are people who are against illegal immigration, people who believe in law-and-order, people who believe in the death penalty, people who are against our government giving able bodied people money for not getting a job and sitting on their asses (basically people who are on welfare), people who are against affirmative action (basically lowering the requirements so people of color can get into schools they aren’t qualified for). Here’s news for you MWP, you can be against illegal immigration and not be a racists.

When our country became a nation, people settled in areas where they had a similar backgrounds. In cities, German settled with other Germans, Italians with other Italians, etc. Are you saying because someone likes to live in a community with like-minded people that makes them a racists? That’s what liberals think.

As for me, I grew up in schools that were intigrated so I’ve always had black friends. I played basketball through Junior High and was usually the only white guy on the team. All my coaches were black.

In graduate school, my roommate was black from a poor city in Louisiana. We had a lot in common since we both loved basketball. We played basketball about everyday after school. In fact, that’s how we met. We also enjoyed going to clubs in the evening. We debated a lot of racial issues and for the most part he believed like me. He was against affirmative action, welfare and all the other liberal programs. He believed in law-and-order, and the death penalty. Yes, there are conservative blacks out there. In fact, Trump got 12% of the black vote, so it wasn’t like all blacks and other minorities were against him.

Things don’t change overnight but Trump is making progress and, yes, he will be reelected in 2020. Most the public sees through all the liberal lies about Trump. I get you don’t. I mean you were attaching articles from CNN, which is one of the most left-wing news agencies out there. Do you get your news from any other source other than left-wing nut houses? On odds shark, Trump is even money to win in 2020. His closest completion is Joe Biden and Kamala Harris at +550.

Look MWP I can tell you need help. You don’t know why private businesses operate. You thought it was to create jobs. Most the time when people age, they start seeing through all of the liberal left-wing lies. It appears you didn’t grow much as you aged. I’m not going to be able to change your mind overnight through a couple of posts, but I do encourage you to try to be more open-minded and get some of your news from other sources. Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

To top matters off Trump now wants to go against the Supreme Court and still ask the citizenship question on the census. This guy should be impeached immediately.

Of course we can all boycott the citizenship question. And that is what I hope everyone does if it is on the census. I rather pay the $100 fine than to see Trump pull another fast one.
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/19/60362...ill-be-counted
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/13/221

By the way, can you pass the citizenship test. I got 10 out of 10 correct.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/us/us...rnd/index.html

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MWP, the things you liberals get worked up over is kind of funny. I haven’t been keeping up on liberals news lately so I didn’t even know about this issue. Are you serious? You’d want to impeach a president over this.

For the record, I spent sometime on the internet researching this topic and you’re wrong about the Supreme Court. It has backed off its original position, and is giving Trump more time to get this through. This is an excellent idea! Another good idea by Trump and his administration. One should have to know something about the country they are citizens of. Of course, liberals don’t think like this because it makes too much sense.

As I’m sure you know our Superium Court is pretty screwed up right now since it has a bunch of left-wing liberal nut jobs on the court who don’t believe in our constitution and make law from the bench.

This is something else Trump is trying to address by electing judges to the Supreme Court that do not make up laws To fit their liberal agenda. So far Trump has done an excellent job with his Supreme Court choices. Hopefully, he can get a couple more confirmed during his term.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob21

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

To top matters off Trump now wants to go against the Supreme Court and still ask the citizenship question on the census. This guy should be impeached immediately.

Of course we can all boycott the citizenship question. And that is what I hope everyone does if it is on the census. I rather pay the $100 fine than to see Trump pull another fast one.
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/19/60362...ill-be-counted
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/13/221

By the way, can you pass the citizenship test. I got 10 out of 10 correct.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/us/us...rnd/index.html

---

MWP, the things you liberals get worked up over is kind of funny. I haven’t been keeping up on liberals news lately so I didn’t even know about this issue. Are you serious? You’d want to impeach a president over this.

For the record, I spent sometime on the internet researching this topic and you’re wrong about the Supreme Court. It has backed off its original position, and is giving Trump more time to get this through. This is an excellent idea! Another good idea by Trump and his administration. One should have to know something about the country they are citizens of. Of course, liberals don’t think like this because it makes too much sense.

As I’m sure you know our Superium Court is pretty screwed up right now since it has a bunch of left-wing liberal nut jobs on the court who don’t believe in our constitution and make law from the bench.

This is something else Trump is trying to address by electing judges to the Supreme Court that do not make up laws To fit their liberal agenda. So far Trump has done an excellent job with his Supreme Court choices. Hopefully, he can get a couple more confirmed during his term.

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What does Trump, Supreme Court, Liberals versus Right Wing Wackos have to do with Eldorado buying Caesars? Please either STFU or get back on topic.

Trump is not a racist. Trump did what Obama couldn't do. Got the minorities jobs. Piece of crap lefties are the biggest racist fascists nazis in this country. Nothing but lies, lies, lies from the left. A lefty will sooner climb to the top of a tree to tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth. You can't budge an inch with a lefty because whatever you concede will never be enough. They will just want more and more and more and more until this country is full blown totalitarian communist.

In his book "Audacity of Hope" Barak Obama called illegal immigration very bad for the black community because of the increased competition for housing and jobs. Clinton said the same thing. So did Shumer. But then they all did the flip flop when Trump got elected. Lefties call Trump a racist while doing all they can to insure wages are depressed and housing costs are high on black people. That makes lefties the real piece of shit racists in this country. The left don't give a damn about working people. The only thing that matters to lefties is their screwed up socialist ideology.

Here's the latest Nike shoe:

Regarding the original thread topic:

https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot...similated.html