Simple Formula

Some would have you believe you need to be a genius or get help from a genius to get the edge or advantage.
I believe that if you have the time, money and desire or initiative anyone can beat the Casino or at least make some money.
Time is just as important as Bankroll.
You will need to put in the hours to actually get the return on your investment.
You will need perfect play as well but that is easy enough with a strategy chart.

Here is one example that has been a play for a very long time.
Key points as usual are to use multiple cards if possible.
Better to have the person with you if you can.
Never put exact amounts in! You want to try to randomize things.
Try to spread your play around if possible to other machines or games which could decrease your hourly.
Get your Free Play out or Cash Back out ASAP in case they No Mail you or No Card you.
Use your comp ASAP as well.

One of the games will pay you 99.96% return on every 100 dollars you roll through.
You need to play at the dollar level for this example.
They have quarters and halves but you will have to cut your earn rate accordingly if you can't afford the dollar level.
This means if you play perfect you will lose 4 cents on every 100 dollars.
Remember that perfect play is more important than speed and speed will come with experience.
I suggest a minimum of a 40,000 dollar cash bank roll.
Everyone reacts differently to losses so this is actually about comfort level and you will see some swings at the dollar level.

The card will give you 29 cents back on every 100 dollars.
You should be able to average 800 hands per hour and that is low in my opinion.
So this means you are making a quarter on every 100 dollars and you should get 4,000 dollars in an hour which is 10 dollars in cash per hour.
You will also average about 50 cents comp per 100 rolled through the machine.
Everyone has to eat so food isn't as bad as you might think.
These numbers should be more as you play faster with experience.

You should also get a 1% mailer which means that 40,000 coin will give you 400 per month in Free Play.
Of course you don't want to put in exact amounts when you play and you don't want perfect amounts in each month.
You will have to vary this. Sometimes go high and sometimes go low.
35k to 60k per month should be a good projection.
Sometimes take off a whole month or just let your card fall off for a few months helps as well.

For the example let us just say you play 40k per month which should be 10 hours per month at 800 hands per hour.
Eventually you will get this to 8 hours per month or less.

So 40,000 coin in gets you 400 Free Play + 125 Cash + 250 Comp = 775 Per Month on 40,000 dollars invested.
It isn't hard to get this to average out to an 800 dollar return on 40,000 dollars invested which is a 2% return.
Some scoff at such a low return but I believe that a 2% hammer is a monster when playing it straight.
As a matter of my opinion a 2% hammer for the player is a fundamental concept.
800 hands per hour will earn 75 total per hour. (some of you don't count comp as cash)
1000 hpr = 96.
1200 hpr = 118.
If you want a cleaner example and easier math just think in terms of a return of 1% or 1.5% or 2%.
So at 2% if you are putting in 5000 dollars per hour which is 1000 hands per hour you will make a total of 100 cash/comp per hour.
Things are easier if you use round numbers and if you are worried about it or doing it on the fly just go low.
You know that the game will give you between 1.5% or 2% return but you don't want to calculate the exact amount.
So just use the 1.5% example and you realize you are at 75 cash/comp per hour at the minimum.

This all has to be adjusted for your speed and time you put in.
You may want to put in more hours which will decrease your total hourly but give you more longevity.
The game is always a win so you will be making money even if you take a pay cut.
You may want to drop down to a 99.54% return game as well and find some playable reels to spread your play around.
A little pit play can help as well if you want.

Many factors to list and adjust but this is just a simple example trying to get someone started in the right direction.
You want to try to find something like this or better and rotate.
The more rotation the better.
The more you play the more they pay!

Always remember if you are doing this in Vegas you should never pay cash for Food.
Food should always be comped from somewhere.
Many of these places are changing and if you are showing a win they won't comp you.
If you are losing a bunch on your card it might be a good idea to use another card and keep that loss on yours.
That is a little bit more tricky and depends on a case by case basis.

monet, just curious what happens to all of those percentages and numbers you gave when the player receives some taxable hand pays jackpots that are a MUST to keep those percentages where they hopefully at least balance out?

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Originally Posted by BoSox

monet, just curious what happens to all of those percentages and numbers you gave when the player receives some taxable hand pays jackpots that are a MUST to keep those percentages where they hopefully at least balance out?

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Most of the time you are playing a losing game.
For this example the win is in the card and mail.
At the end of the year your win/loss statement will show a loss.
If you are worried about taxes you should already know how to counter W2Gs.
Tax Lessons are another department or thread/forum.
Tipping Lessons are another department as well.
The more you tip the more you lose in most situations.
Sometimes tipping can make you more money but that is not a simple formula.

That is a grind.

Here’s how the real world works for bonus hustlers. There is a Pareto distribution. The top 5% to 20% of bonus hustlers make up 50% to 80% of the profits bonus hustlers make in one night.

Usually, the top 3 to 5 plays make up 50% to 80% of the profits for the night.

The rest of the night is just a grind for just about everyone.

I never play for comps since I make it a habit not to eat or sleep in the casino. I never play for mailers ... more than half of my monthly free play is wasted. I do play a lot of -EV games during promo’s that get me over 100%.

So I will end with a story about the tightest bonus hustler I know. This guy almost always makes money each night. He walks away from a ton of marginal plays. If the variance is too high, he walks away as well. This guy can start with $60 and walk out the night up $300. He is extremely choosy. Most APs laugh at him passing up +EV plays but they stopped laughing when he turns $100 to $1,000+ during prime time and his ticket almost always goes positive CONSISTENTLY. His secret ... he knows the games very well and only choose the best plays. He is the opposite of a grinder and does not use a player’s card so he is invisible to their tracking system ... no comps, no mailers, no free food, no hotel stays, etc. He puts his time in but does not have the up and down swings that bonus hustlers face each night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

That is a grind.

---

The racetrack crowd is the world brought down to size, life grinding against death and losing.

---------------------

If you're going to try, go all the way.
Otherwise don't even start.
This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs, and maybe your mind.
It could mean not eating for three or four days.
It could mean freezing on a park bench.
It could mean jail. It could mean derision.
It could mean mockery, isolation. Isolation is the gift.
All the others are a test of your endurance.
Of how much you really want to do it.
And you'll do it, despite rejection in the worst odds.
And it will be better than anything else you can imagine.
If you're going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that.
You will be alone with the gods. And the nights will flame with fire.
You will ride life straight to perfect laughter.
It's the only good fight there is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

That is a grind.

---

The racetrack crowd is the world brought down to size, life grinding against death and losing.

---------------------

If you're going to try, go all the way.
Otherwise don't even start.
This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs, and maybe your mind.
It could mean not eating for three or four days.
It could mean freezing on a park bench.
It could mean jail. It could mean derision.
It could mean mockery, isolation. Isolation is the gift.
All the others are a test of your endurance.
Of how much you really want to do it.
And you'll do it, despite rejection in the worst odds.
And it will be better than anything else you can imagine.
If you're going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that.
You will be alone with the gods. And the nights will flame with fire.
You will ride life straight to perfect laughter.
It's the only good fight there is.

---

I have to admit that I got really lucky when I started in the AP world. Made a ton of good friends and met some of the smartest people in the business, PhD’s in Physics, Math, Comp Sci, etc and some of the best programmers you will meet.

Without these people teaching me the ropes, I would not have the success I have had for past 20+ years. We all started with Piggy Bankin’, Sigma Gaming’s beatable Poker games like Flush Attack or The Max, and then we got the IGT Vision Series games, etc. I didn’t have the bankroll for a Joker Wild VP progressive with a 2% meter movement where 5 of a Kind wins the progressive (roughly 11K hand cycle), could not afford to play $5 single line VP chasing a 101% or 102% play. But I tipped off my buddies and traded them for info or intel. What I didn’t realize I was good at finding plays rather than grinding them.

I had my up’s and down’s, droughts like losing over $64K over 2 months and that scared the sh*t out of me, and I remembered when I started getting swings of +/- $20K a week, that was a bit too much for me so I took some time off and had to rethink my game plan. This guy Mathboy from bj21 and TomSki’s TSI software gave me the insights to get my next level. I knew my comfort level and knew what games fit my strength. I wasn’t going to have a goal of Max EV or $EV per hour, I didn’t want to grind, and I hell wasn’t going to sit at a machines banging the buttons as fast as a damn monkey chasing the Must Hits.

I found my niche. I played games and opportunities that I was better than most APs. I found out the first month of a new bonus machine was huge ... say $10K a week or $10K a month. That’s where I made my money ... low risk, lots of plays and max information asymmetry. The second month was okay but by the third month, the play was over as the dregs of bonus hustlers started camping by the machines.

I still play a lot of promo’s because the casinos are too damn lazy to change their promo’s. They basically run the same promo’s for so many of my casinos so it’s very easy and steady money. When I got be 55, I got to hustle the 50+ & 55+ promo’s so that adds a thousand a month that I didn’t have before. Cha Ching!!! I was double & triple dipping in some casinos ... these casinos were practically giving money away.

I am not saying no to grinding, but no grinding for me. Like I said, I got really lucky meeting the right people and figuring out what works for me.

I still play a lot of promo’s because the casinos are too damn lazy to change their promo’s. They basically run the same promo’s for so many of my casinos so it’s very easy and steady money. When I got be 55, I got to hustle the 50+ & 55+ promo’s so that adds a thousand a month that I didn’t have before. Cha Ching!!! I was double & triple dipping in some casinos ... these casinos were practically giving money away.

I am not saying no to grinding, but no grinding for me. Like I said, I got really lucky meeting the right people and figuring out what works for me.[/QUOTE]

I love double dipping! I have started doing it on the regular with some regular promos. Im not 50 (or 55) yet, so I dont have that extra yet. without details, i have turned a 15$ an hour play into 35$ an hour with double dipping with minimal effort. (not counting mailers cos the play is mixed with other play so very hard to isolate).

There is no "positive ev" method to tipping casino handpays or cashiers. You tip, you lose. Simple as pie. Anyone who believes tipping will get your hand pays quicker so you can supposedly hammer away at some theoretically positive play faster is delusional.

The bottom line is, anyone stupid enough to leave a tip to employees who bring your cash and tax forms because they're simply doing the job they're being paid to do, is far too weak a person to be playing for a profit in the first place. Too many players piss away their edge by tipping, and the ONLY reason they tip is because of intimidation. Poor babies are sooo worried about what the floor people might be thinking about them....Better they worry about the IRS coming after them for claiming falsely that they have lost as much as they have won in their tax filings. Then again, the AMT might get them, or their AGI could bite them in the ass. Internet gambling bravados never mention this stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

That is a grind.

Here’s how the real world works for bonus hustlers. There is a Pareto distribution. The top 5% to 20% of bonus hustlers make up 50% to 80% of the profits bonus hustlers make in one night.

Usually, the top 3 to 5 plays make up 50% to 80% of the profits for the night.

The rest of the night is just a grind for just about everyone.

I never play for comps since I make it a habit not to eat or sleep in the casino. I never play for mailers ... more than half of my monthly free play is wasted. I do play a lot of -EV games during promo’s that get me over 100%.

So I will end with a story about the tightest bonus hustler I know. This guy almost always makes money each night. He walks away from a ton of marginal plays. If the variance is too high, he walks away as well. This guy can start with $60 and walk out the night up $300. He is extremely choosy. Most APs laugh at him passing up +EV plays but they stopped laughing when he turns $100 to $1,000+ during prime time and his ticket almost always goes positive CONSISTENTLY. His secret ... he knows the games very well and only choose the best plays. He is the opposite of a grinder and does not use a player’s card so he is invisible to their tracking system ... no comps, no mailers, no free food, no hotel stays, etc. He puts his time in but does not have the up and down swings that bonus hustlers face each night.

---

This sounds like a broke idiot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

That is a grind.

---

The racetrack crowd is the world brought down to size, life grinding against death and losing.

---------------------

If you're going to try, go all the way.
Otherwise don't even start.
This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs, and maybe your mind.
It could mean not eating for three or four days.
It could mean freezing on a park bench.
It could mean jail. It could mean derision.
It could mean mockery, isolation. Isolation is the gift.
All the others are a test of your endurance.
Of how much you really want to do it.
And you'll do it, despite rejection in the worst odds.
And it will be better than anything else you can imagine.
If you're going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that.
You will be alone with the gods. And the nights will flame with fire.
You will ride life straight to perfect laughter.
It's the only good fight there is.

---

I have to admit that I got really lucky when I started in the AP world. Made a ton of good friends and met some of the smartest people in the business, PhD’s in Physics, Math, Comp Sci, etc and some of the best programmers you will meet.

Without these people teaching me the ropes, I would not have the success I have had for past 20+ years. We all started with Piggy Bankin’, Sigma Gaming’s beatable Poker games like Flush Attack or The Max, and then we got the IGT Vision Series games, etc. I didn’t have the bankroll for a Joker Wild VP progressive with a 2% meter movement where 5 of a Kind wins the progressive (roughly 11K hand cycle), could not afford to play $5 single line VP chasing a 101% or 102% play. But I tipped off my buddies and traded them for info or intel. What I didn’t realize I was good at finding plays rather than grinding them.

I had my up’s and down’s, droughts like losing over $64K over 2 months and that scared the sh*t out of me, and I remembered when I started getting swings of +/- $20K a week, that was a bit too much for me so I took some time off and had to rethink my game plan. This guy Mathboy from bj21 and TomSki’s TSI software gave me the insights to get my next level. I knew my comfort level and knew what games fit my strength. I wasn’t going to have a goal of Max EV or $EV per hour, I didn’t want to grind, and I hell wasn’t going to sit at a machines banging the buttons as fast as a damn monkey chasing the Must Hits.

I found my niche. I played games and opportunities that I was better than most APs. I found out the first month of a new bonus machine was huge ... say $10K a week or $10K a month. That’s where I made my money ... low risk, lots of plays and max information asymmetry. The second month was okay but by the third month, the play was over as the dregs of bonus hustlers started camping by the machines.

I still play a lot of promo’s because the casinos are too damn lazy to change their promo’s. They basically run the same promo’s for so many of my casinos so it’s very easy and steady money. When I got be 55, I got to hustle the 50+ & 55+ promo’s so that adds a thousand a month that I didn’t have before. Cha Ching!!! I was double & triple dipping in some casinos ... these casinos were practically giving money away.

I am not saying no to grinding, but no grinding for me. Like I said, I got really lucky meeting the right people and figuring out what works for me.

---

Where did this broke loser go ? Clown show

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

There is no "positive ev" method to tipping casino handpays or cashiers. You tip, you lose. Simple as pie. Anyone who believes tipping will get your hand pays quicker so you can supposedly hammer away at some theoretically positive play faster is delusional.

The bottom line is, anyone stupid enough to leave a tip to employees who bring your cash and tax forms because they're simply doing the job they're being paid to do, is far too weak a person to be playing for a profit in the first place. Too many players piss away their edge by tipping, and the ONLY reason they tip is because of intimidation. Poor babies are sooo worried about what the floor people might be thinking about them....Better they worry about the IRS coming after them for claiming falsely that they have lost as much as they have won in their tax filings. Then again, the AMT might get them, or their AGI could bite them in the ass. Internet gambling bravados never mention this stuff.

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This is spot on. Tipping for the most part is complete bullshit , with the odd exception. It's a huge leak for many people, that can easily add up to 10K+/ year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

That is a grind.

Here’s how the real world works for bonus hustlers. There is a Pareto distribution. The top 5% to 20% of bonus hustlers make up 50% to 80% of the profits bonus hustlers make in one night.

Usually, the top 3 to 5 plays make up 50% to 80% of the profits for the night.

The rest of the night is just a grind for just about everyone.

I never play for comps since I make it a habit not to eat or sleep in the casino. I never play for mailers ... more than half of my monthly free play is wasted. I do play a lot of -EV games during promo’s that get me over 100%.

So I will end with a story about the tightest bonus hustler I know. This guy almost always makes money each night. He walks away from a ton of marginal plays. If the variance is too high, he walks away as well. This guy can start with $60 and walk out the night up $300. He is extremely choosy. Most APs laugh at him passing up +EV plays but they stopped laughing when he turns $100 to $1,000+ during prime time and his ticket almost always goes positive CONSISTENTLY. His secret ... he knows the games very well and only choose the best plays. He is the opposite of a grinder and does not use a player’s card so he is invisible to their tracking system ... no comps, no mailers, no free food, no hotel stays, etc. He puts his time in but does not have the up and down swings that bonus hustlers face each night.

---

ex-

This sounds like a broke idiot

---

If you want to have some laughs check out Ex-AP in the Whatever's On Your Mind section. He used to troll me hard with how much bettor of an AP he was but it was really stupid shit. He disappeared a couple of years ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

That is a grind.

Here’s how the real world works for bonus hustlers. There is a Pareto distribution. The top 5% to 20% of bonus hustlers make up 50% to 80% of the profits bonus hustlers make in one night.

Usually, the top 3 to 5 plays make up 50% to 80% of the profits for the night.

The rest of the night is just a grind for just about everyone.

I never play for comps since I make it a habit not to eat or sleep in the casino. I never play for mailers ... more than half of my monthly free play is wasted. I do play a lot of -EV games during promo’s that get me over 100%.

So I will end with a story about the tightest bonus hustler I know. This guy almost always makes money each night. He walks away from a ton of marginal plays. If the variance is too high, he walks away as well. This guy can start with $60 and walk out the night up $300. He is extremely choosy. Most APs laugh at him passing up +EV plays but they stopped laughing when he turns $100 to $1,000+ during prime time and his ticket almost always goes positive CONSISTENTLY. His secret ... he knows the games very well and only choose the best plays. He is the opposite of a grinder and does not use a player’s card so he is invisible to their tracking system ... no comps, no mailers, no free food, no hotel stays, etc. He puts his time in but does not have the up and down swings that bonus hustlers face each night.

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ex-

This sounds like a broke idiot

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If you want to have some laughs check out Ex-AP in the Whatever's On Your Mind section. He used to troll me hard with how much bettor of an AP he was but it was really stupid shit. He disappeared a couple of years ago.

---

I have a strong feeling Ex-AP is still around :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

There is no "positive ev" method to tipping casino handpays or cashiers. You tip, you lose. Simple as pie. Anyone who believes tipping will get your hand pays quicker so you can supposedly hammer away at some theoretically positive play faster is delusional.

The bottom line is, anyone stupid enough to leave a tip to employees who bring your cash and tax forms because they're simply doing the job they're being paid to do, is far too weak a person to be playing for a profit in the first place. Too many players piss away their edge by tipping, and the ONLY reason they tip is because of intimidation. Poor babies are sooo worried about what the floor people might be thinking about them....Better they worry about the IRS coming after them for claiming falsely that they have lost as much as they have won in their tax filings. Then again, the AMT might get them, or their AGI could bite them in the ass. Internet gambling bravados never mention this stuff.

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This is spot on. Tipping for the most part is complete bullshit , with the odd exception. It's a huge leak for many people, that can easily add up to 10K+/ year.

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I agree for the most part.
Money does grease the wheels and can make "friends," which can be useful in many situations.
To Tip or Not to Tip is up to the individual, and I support both sides of the topic.
In my experience, I have found that people in general can be bought for very little money.
Trust is something entirely different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

There is no "positive ev" method to tipping casino handpays or cashiers. You tip, you lose. Simple as pie. Anyone who believes tipping will get your hand pays quicker so you can supposedly hammer away at some theoretically positive play faster is delusional.

The bottom line is, anyone stupid enough to leave a tip to employees who bring your cash and tax forms because they're simply doing the job they're being paid to do, is far too weak a person to be playing for a profit in the first place. Too many players piss away their edge by tipping, and the ONLY reason they tip is because of intimidation. Poor babies are sooo worried about what the floor people might be thinking about them....Better they worry about the IRS coming after them for claiming falsely that they have lost as much as they have won in their tax filings. Then again, the AMT might get them, or their AGI could bite them in the ass. Internet gambling bravados never mention this stuff.

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This is spot on. Tipping for the most part is complete bullshit , with the odd exception. It's a huge leak for many people, that can easily add up to 10K+/ year.

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Please explain why Rob Singer tipped out 20 thousand dollars from his 1.5 Million Dollar Jackpot??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

There is no "positive ev" method to tipping casino handpays or cashiers. You tip, you lose. Simple as pie. Anyone who believes tipping will get your hand pays quicker so you can supposedly hammer away at some theoretically positive play faster is delusional.

The bottom line is, anyone stupid enough to leave a tip to employees who bring your cash and tax forms because they're simply doing the job they're being paid to do, is far too weak a person to be playing for a profit in the first place. Too many players piss away their edge by tipping, and the ONLY reason they tip is because of intimidation. Poor babies are sooo worried about what the floor people might be thinking about them....Better they worry about the IRS coming after them for claiming falsely that they have lost as much as they have won in their tax filings. Then again, the AMT might get them, or their AGI could bite them in the ass. Internet gambling bravados never mention this stuff.

---

This is spot on. Tipping for the most part is complete bullshit , with the odd exception. It's a huge leak for many people, that can easily add up to 10K+/ year.

---

Please explain why Rob Singer tipped out 20 thousand dollars from his 1.5 Million Dollar Jackpot??

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The odds of Ol Robbie tipping 20k is equivalent to Alan's 18yo debacle. Hell I'd be surprised if he ever gave even a hundy tip in his lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

The odds of Ol Robbie tipping 20k is equivalent to Alan's 18yo debacle. Hell I'd be surprised if he ever gave even a hundy tip in his lifetime.

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Are you saying he lied about tipping out 20k?
If so, how can we trust that he doesn't secretly tip all the time?
My point is how can we believe him about anything if he lied to us about tipping out 20k?
Why would he have such a hard stance against tipping and afterwards tip out 20k??
Even if he lied about hitting a 1.5 Million Dollar Jackpot why would he lie about tipping out 20k when he is against tipping?
Not just against it but has a very hard stance against it.
This was always my issue with the story.
I could care less if he hit the jackpot or not but to add insult to injury and casually tell everyone he tipped the extortion crew 20k really pisses me off.
If you are going to be a bad ass, be a bad ass, and stick your motherfucking guns!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

The odds of Ol Robbie tipping 20k is equivalent to Alan's 18yo debacle. Hell I'd be surprised if he ever gave even a hundy tip in his lifetime.

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Are you saying he lied about tipping out 20k?
If so, how can we trust that he doesn't secretly tip all the time?
My point is how can we believe him about anything if he lied to us about tipping out 20k?
Why would he have such a hard stance on tipping and afterwards tip out 20k??

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There's no proof either way if Rob tips or not. Going back to his Aceshii days of 15+ years ago till present he's been staunchly on the Anti-tip side. I tend to agree for 90+% of situations. If people were honest with themselves(especially AP's) they would admit, it's a farce more often then not. Most of these tipped casino employees are way overpaid for the service they render to the public. Some grossly so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

There's no proof either way if Rob tips or not. Going back to his Aceshii days of 15+ years ago till present he's been staunchly on the Anti-tip side. I tend to agree for 90+% of situations. If people were honest with themselves(especially AP's) they would admit, it's a farce more often then not. Most of these tipped casino employees are way overpaid for the service they render to the public. Some grossly so.

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As I have said before.
Tipping is part of the American Culture.
But that doesn't mean you have to tip.
Fuck Tipping, if you don't want to tip, don't tip.
Same with Playstation.
I bought a Used PS4 a year or so ago but refuse to pay them their monthly fee to play other people online even though that is the best feature of gaming.
So instead if I want to play people online I do it from my computer which is free.
The PS4 is mostly for some entertainment for my family but now they can't use the controllers because they get carpal problems.
18 dollars a month to play online is sheer madness and I refuse to pay it.
Although Skate 4 is coming out soon and I hope I can get it on the PC because that is a fun game to play against others online.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

There's no proof either way if Rob tips or not. Going back to his Aceshii days of 15+ years ago till present he's been staunchly on the Anti-tip side. I tend to agree for 90+% of situations. If people were honest with themselves(especially AP's) they would admit, it's a farce more often then not. Most of these tipped casino employees are way overpaid for the service they render to the public. Some grossly so.

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As I have said before.
Tipping is part of the American Culture.
But that doesn't mean you have to tip.
Fuck Tipping, if you don't want to tip, don't tip.
Same with Playstation.
I bought a Used PS4 a year or so ago but refuse to pay them their monthly fee to play other people online even though that is the best feature of gaming.
So instead if I want to play people online I do it from my computer which is free.
The PS4 is mostly for some entertainment for my family but now they can't use the controllers because they get carpal problems.
18 dollars a month to play online is sheer madness and I refuse to pay it.
Although Skate 4 is coming out soon and I hope I can get it on the PC because that is a fun game to play against others online.

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Sometimes I tip jackpots sometimes I don’t. I always tip the waiter at dinner. I often tip because I know most of the people in the casinos make jack shit.

What’s rich ? Idk anymore my days blend together one after another it seems. My tip may actually be the highlight of someone’s day. That’s often my thought when I tip big.

The real question is where are the people who make real money ? They don’t really exist half the people on these podcast are card counters who work part time, and are on teams. The other half are lazy and don’t put in the hours. So I been chasing a phantom All these years. A guy or crew I imagined that made many times what I had. Come to find out it was just a figment of my imagination. There’s really only fraudulent guys in this business. None of them make real money.

Fraudulent guys everywhere

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by monet

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

There's no proof either way if Rob tips or not. Going back to his Aceshii days of 15+ years ago till present he's been staunchly on the Anti-tip side. I tend to agree for 90+% of situations. If people were honest with themselves(especially AP's) they would admit, it's a farce more often then not. Most of these tipped casino employees are way overpaid for the service they render to the public. Some grossly so.

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As I have said before.
Tipping is part of the American Culture.
But that doesn't mean you have to tip.
Fuck Tipping, if you don't want to tip, don't tip.
Same with Playstation.
I bought a Used PS4 a year or so ago but refuse to pay them their monthly fee to play other people online even though that is the best feature of gaming.
So instead if I want to play people online I do it from my computer which is free.
The PS4 is mostly for some entertainment for my family but now they can't use the controllers because they get carpal problems.
18 dollars a month to play online is sheer madness and I refuse to pay it.
Although Skate 4 is coming out soon and I hope I can get it on the PC because that is a fun game to play against others online.

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Sometimes I tip jackpots sometimes I don’t. I always tip the waiter at dinner. I often tip because I know most of the people in the casinos make jack shit.

What’s rich ? Idk anymore my days blend together one after another it seems. My tip may actually be the highlight of someone’s day. That’s often my thought when I tip big.

The real question is where are the people who make real money ? They don’t really exist half the people on these podcast are card counters who work part time, and are on teams. The other half are lazy and don’t put in the hours. So I been chasing a phantom All these years. A guy or crew I imagined that made many times what I had. Come to find out it was just a figment of my imagination. There’s really only fraudulent guys in this business. None of them make real money.

Fraudulent guys everywhere

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For example Eliot and the wizard made fraudulent peasant money. Now they sit on a thrown of lies and cum. Talking shit helping casinos. Frauds

The problem with tipping is all these places that want you to pre-tip as you are ordering your food to then pick it up at a counter or dropped off at your table. Then you tip and get the wrong order etc. The incentive isn't even there for them to do a good job due to your tip. It is just some sort of entitlement of their employer's and their employees.

Almost as absurd as slot techs expecting a tip on a handpay that only exists to force you to pay taxes on what is likely a net loss.

I get both sides of the tipping argument & agree it’s a personal choice, & don’t object to people who either do tip or don’t tip.

I especially emphasize with recreational losing players not happy on having to tip for hand pays.

Personally, I like to tip for 2 main reasons:

1. If I am consistently winning at a lucrative place & constantly getting hand pays, then I want to keep the employees happy & not be looked at as the dick that doesn’t tip. Rather be known as the generous tipper so if they decide to clean house at least it would be a mark in my favor as opposed to being known as a nit that is cleaning them out & also pisses off the employees by not tipping.

2. I respect anyone that works for living. Being in casinos you see a lot of panhandlers, con artists, bums, druggies, & scumbags, people that add absolutely no value to society. At least the employees are working & casinos are a crummy environment to work 40 hours a week in so I respect & empathize with someone who works in a crappy job like that & therefore don’t mind tipping these folks.

Again though, I get both sides of the issue & although I am a generous tipper, I have no issue with people that have the opposite opinion & I totally understand their point of view.

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

I get both sides of the tipping argument & agree it’s a personal choice, & don’t object to people who either do tip or don’t tip.

I especially emphasize with recreational losing players not happy on having to tip for hand pays.

Personally, I like to tip for 2 main reasons:

1. If I am consistently winning at a lucrative place & constantly getting hand pays, then I want to keep the employees happy & not be looked at as the dick that doesn’t tip. Rather be known as the generous tipper so if they decide to clean house at least it would be a mark in my favor as opposed to being known as a nit that is cleaning them out & also pisses off the employees by not tipping.

2. I respect anyone that works for living. Being in casinos you see a lot of panhandlers, con artists, bums, druggies, & scumbags, people that add absolutely no value to society. At least the employees are working & casinos are a crummy environment to work 40 hours a week in so I respect & empathize with someone who works in a crappy job like that & therefore don’t mind tipping these folks.

Again though, I get both sides of the issue & although I am a generous tipper, I have no issue with people that have the opposite opinion & I totally understand their point of view.

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When I was younger, 15% was if they were good at their job and anything that was considered generous. Now they want you to tip 18% for starters. And I see tip jars at some ridiculous places but hey good for trying.

One problem is IF employers pay a better hourly, then they have to raise menu prices which makes it harder to compete but tips mean the nice people subsidize the not so nice people.

I tend to tip on places that take cash but not the cashless place. I also tip far more %wise when the food is cheap and the clientel probably don't tip very well.

W2Gs are a whole different thing. I am 50/50 on that thing. Oh I won a jackpot but you're doing the part where I have to pay taxes on it! and I even have to pay taxes on my tip. (unless of course you itemize gambling losses.)

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

I get both sides of the tipping argument & agree it’s a personal choice, & don’t object to people who either do tip or don’t tip.

I especially emphasize with recreational losing players not happy on having to tip for hand pays.

Personally, I like to tip for 2 main reasons:

1. If I am consistently winning at a lucrative place & constantly getting hand pays, then I want to keep the employees happy & not be looked at as the dick that doesn’t tip. Rather be known as the generous tipper so if they decide to clean house at least it would be a mark in my favor as opposed to being known as a nit that is cleaning them out & also pisses off the employees by not tipping.

2. I respect anyone that works for living. Being in casinos you see a lot of panhandlers, con artists, bums, druggies, & scumbags, people that add absolutely no value to society. At least the employees are working & casinos are a crummy environment to work 40 hours a week in so I respect & empathize with someone who works in a crappy job like that & therefore don’t mind tipping these folks.

Again though, I get both sides of the issue & although I am a generous tipper, I have no issue with people that have the opposite opinion & I totally understand their point of view.

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When I was younger, 15% was if they were good at their job and anything that was considered generous. Now they want you to tip 18% for starters. And I see tip jars at some ridiculous places but hey good for trying.

One problem is IF employers pay a better hourly, then they have to raise menu prices which makes it harder to compete but tips mean the nice people subsidize the not so nice people.

I tend to tip on places that take cash but not the cashless place. I also tip far more %wise when the food is cheap and the clientel probably don't tip very well.

W2Gs are a whole different thing. I am 50/50 on that thing. Oh I won a jackpot but you're doing the part where I have to pay taxes on it! and I even have to pay taxes on my tip. (unless of course you itemize gambling losses.)

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Agree with you there. I remember when a restaurant tip was 10% & then 15% was if the service was excellent.

Now I see on restaurant bills they will have a little tip guide showing the amount for different percentages & recently I’ve noticed they have a listing for 25% LOL.

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

I get both sides of the tipping argument & agree it’s a personal choice, & don’t object to people who either do tip or don’t tip.

I especially emphasize with recreational losing players not happy on having to tip for hand pays.

Personally, I like to tip for 2 main reasons:

1. If I am consistently winning at a lucrative place & constantly getting hand pays, then I want to keep the employees happy & not be looked at as the dick that doesn’t tip. Rather be known as the generous tipper so if they decide to clean house at least it would be a mark in my favor as opposed to being known as a nit that is cleaning them out & also pisses off the employees by not tipping.

2. I respect anyone that works for living. Being in casinos you see a lot of panhandlers, con artists, bums, druggies, & scumbags, people that add absolutely no value to society. At least the employees are working & casinos are a crummy environment to work 40 hours a week in so I respect & empathize with someone who works in a crappy job like that & therefore don’t mind tipping these folks.

Again though, I get both sides of the issue & although I am a generous tipper, I have no issue with people that have the opposite opinion & I totally understand their point of view.

---

When I was younger, 15% was if they were good at their job and anything that was considered generous. Now they want you to tip 18% for starters. And I see tip jars at some ridiculous places but hey good for trying.

One problem is IF employers pay a better hourly, then they have to raise menu prices which makes it harder to compete but tips mean the nice people subsidize the not so nice people.

I tend to tip on places that take cash but not the cashless place. I also tip far more %wise when the food is cheap and the clientel probably don't tip very well.

W2Gs are a whole different thing. I am 50/50 on that thing. Oh I won a jackpot but you're doing the part where I have to pay taxes on it! and I even have to pay taxes on my tip. (unless of course you itemize gambling losses.)

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Agree with you there. I remember when a restaurant tip was 10% & then 15% was if the service was excellent.

Now I see on restaurant bills they will have a little tip guide showing the amount for different percentages & recently I’ve noticed they have a listing for 25% LOL.

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Yes it is standard to have bottom tier at 18% which is beyond the "good" tip when I was young... A friend of mine said but but inflation.. <facepalm>

When I was in high school and college everyone said 15% was standard and that that was what they paid.

But I worked a few restaurant jobs and the average tip was definitely below 15%. That's always stuck with me for some reason.

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Originally Posted by monet

As I have said before.
Tipping is part of the American Culture.
But that doesn't mean you have to tip.
Fuck Tipping, if you don't want to tip, don't tip.

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Try this next time you have a party of four or more and wish to eat in a "quality" restaurant.

Tell the waiter when they are seating you that "I do not tip, you will not receive a tip from this party," and see if the level and quality of service / food diminishes.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

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Originally Posted by monet

As I have said before.
Tipping is part of the American Culture.
But that doesn't mean you have to tip.
Fuck Tipping, if you don't want to tip, don't tip.

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Try this next time you have a party of four or more and wish to eat in a "quality" restaurant.

Tell the waiter when they are seating you that "I do not tip, you will not receive a tip from this party," and see if the level and quality of service / food diminishes.

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lol Why on Earth would you do that if you were someone that doesn't tip?
Anyways, if you are going to dinner with three other people you should be figuring out a way to get them to pay for the bill and the tip.
That makes your crazy idea or strategy of declaring to the wait staff that you don't tip kind of moot.
Or if you're a real man and you like to have real fun you will run that bill up sky high and Dine and Dash!!
The trick is to tell the other 3 people to go out to the car that you are going to pay the bill and order desert or a to go order as you go to the bathroom.
You do not want them in on it because that is no fun.
Make them think you are paying for the bill.
Of course after you go to the bathroom you just walk out the door.
Best to do this during a busy time.

No, I believe in truth and candor: tell them up front.

If they or mgt. have a problem with it and ask you to leave, then leave, but odds are they won't.

That way you can not tip with a clear conscience, assuming that is your bag.

I was wondering how the staff would react, and whether it would be reflected somehow in the quality of the food and service.

Humana nature and everything...

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Originally Posted by MisterV

No, I believe in truth and candor: tell them up front.

If they or mgt. have a problem with it and ask you to leave, then leave, but odds are they won't.

That way you can not tip with a clear conscience, assuming that is your bag.

I was wondering how the staff would react, and whether it would be reflected somehow in the quality of the food and service.

Humana nature and everything...

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I keep trying to explain to everyone that it's a culture clash.
And like ZK and others have pointed out it is a scam implemented long ago by owners to undercut their employees.
Most of the other countries in the world do not tip.
What you are talking about is completely different.
If I walk in and tell them that I don't believe in restrooms and piss and shit all over the floor how would they feel?
Or instead of that crime what if I tell them I piss and shit on the bathroom floor because I don't believe in toilets.
Therefore, you do not tell them anything.
You just piss and shit on the bathroom floor because that is what you do.
The same thing applies to tipping.
You don't tell them because most people who do tip will leave a worse tip or no tip for poor service.
You don't tip at Taco Bell or McDonalds do you?
Let's not get into the Reservoir Dogs discussion again.

This belongs in the Song Reco Thread but I'm putting it in here because Weird Al has a line about "No Tip For You" in the song.
I think that many of us who grew up listening to Weird Al in the 70s up till about the mid 90s or so missed out on a lot of his material because MTV changed format and the Dr. Demento Show didn't exist anymore.
And I'm sure age, life, getting married, having children and other priorities got in the way.
Anyways, I always loved the Doors and most of their music.
Like 95% of it.
I just found out that Weird Al did a parody of Jim Morrison and Holy Shit does he go Hard on the song.
It's pretty awesome.
And the Kicker is that Ray Manzarek played keyboards on the studio recording of the song with Weird Al.
Whatever... listen to it or not but he/it needs to be promoted in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4sALru9IJk

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Originally Posted by MisterV

No, I believe in truth and candor: tell them up front.

If they or mgt. have a problem with it and ask you to leave, then leave, but odds are they won't.

That way you can not tip with a clear conscience, assuming that is your bag.

I was wondering how the staff would react, and whether it would be reflected somehow in the quality of the food and service.

Humana nature and everything...

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I operated restaurants. Wind up with spit or jizz or worse in your food.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I was wondering how the staff would react

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Yikes..pretty naive for someone who grew up where you did.

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Originally Posted by monet

This belongs in the Song Reco Thread but I'm putting it in here because Weird Al has a line about "No Tip For You" in the song.
I think that many of us who grew up listening to Weird Al in the 70s up till about the mid 90s or so missed out on a lot of his material because MTV changed format and the Dr. Demento Show didn't exist anymore.
And I'm sure age, life, getting married, having children and other priorities got in the way.
Anyways, I always loved the Doors and most of their music.
Like 95% of it.
I just found out that Weird Al did a parody of Jim Morrison and Holy Shit does he go Hard on the song.
It's pretty awesome.
And the Kicker is that Ray Manzarek played keyboards on the studio recording of the song with Weird Al.
Whatever... listen to it or not but he/it needs to be promoted in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4sALru9IJk

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I love Weird Al. He nails this. He almost always does.

The cousin of a girl I dated back in the 70's was an award-winning accordion player from Sheppton PA. I saw him do a couple of lounge-type performances. So I was appreciative of Weird Al's expertise with an accordion. The place I grew up had an hour-long polka hour (named "Polka Party") on the radio every day, so I was hip to where Weird Al was coming from with his Polka Party album.

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Originally Posted by redietz

The cousin of a girl I dated back in the 70's

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LOL...classic ditz.

Musings from the spectrum, by Diet Coke no ice.

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Originally Posted by redietz

I love Weird Al. He nails this. He almost always does.

The cousin of a girl I dated back in the 70's was an award-winning accordion player from Sheppton PA. I saw him do a couple of lounge-type performances. So I was appreciative of Weird Al's expertise with an accordion. The place I grew up had an hour-long polka hour (named "Polka Party") on the radio every day, so I was hip to where Weird Al was coming from with his Polka Party album.

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You might be one of the only Forum Members that enjoy and know who Frank Zappa is.
If you like Frank Zappa's music and never heard Weird Al's "Genius in France" you may want to listen to it.
It's a song everyone should listen to at least once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwFf9vGRqcs