The lack of new bonus machines

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01-19-2020, 09:40 PM
Ex-AP

The lack of new bonus machines

My sources tell me some Reno bonus hustlers have already made their way to the Indian casinos in North California. And they are being rude as f*ck so they will get kicked out.

I was at a casino checking out a new bonus machines. Found two no risk plays in 4 hours: $90 & $70 profit. The lack of new machines means it will be hard to pick up pocket changes, e.g. an extra 3 or 4 Benji’s.

The only saving grace was that I found a play for a buddy that hustles monthly mailers so he was happy. It’s worth an extra $1,500 a month to him. I just don’t have the time to put $10K, $20K, etc coin in per trip to trigger the mailers.
01-20-2020, 12:08 AM
DGenBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

My sources tell me some Reno bonus hustlers have already made their way to the Indian casinos in North California. And they are being rude as f*ck so they will get kicked out.

I was at a casino checking out a new bonus machines. Found two no risk plays in 4 hours: $90 & $70 profit. The lack of new machines means it will be hard to pick up pocket changes, e.g. an extra 3 or 4 Benji’s.

The only saving grace was that I found a play for a buddy that hustles monthly mailers so he was happy. It’s worth an extra $1,500 a month to him. I just don’t have the time to put $10K, $20K, etc coin in per trip to trigger the mailers.

Im seeing bonus machines start to get pulled from some places too and these are some of the likely reasons:

Hustlers get cute and lock the button panel at the highest bet highest denomination hoping a ploppy will accidentally play it and create a big play. In realty most ploppies are not going to take the time to figure out how to unlock the button panel and will just move on so the machine gets no action at all and gets pulled.

Along the same lines on multi-denom machines hustlers often leave it on the highest denom after they check it (even if they dont lock the button panel) I assume for either the same reason as above or so they will know if they already checked it since people rarely play the higher denoms. The problem with this is that most ploppies are not yet familiar with mulitdenom machines so if they walk by and see a line video slot is quarters, dimes or nickels, they will move on looking for pennies (not realizing they can just change it) so again these machines get no action and get pulled.

Hustlers also like to leave a bank of machines all on the highest bet for again I assume the same reasons and I think that also turns ploppies off. Ploppies are attracted to low minimum bets so when they walk by a bank where every machine is displaying a $6 or $7.50 bet they just move on even though a lower bet is available if they walked up to the machine and checked the button panel. So the machines get no action and they get pulled.

Plus ploppies don’t like a steady stream of sketchy looking people walking up to the machines right next to them and slamming on each bet at full volume without playing or getting stared at by same sketchy looking people who look like the spider waiting for the fly, so they can be the first to check the machine after the ploppy leaves. This causes ploppies to cash out and go somewhere else so the machines get less action and get pulled.

Another trend Im seeing recently is on the IGT games with a 10 spin cycle, some hustlers will take one spin on every bet, every denomination (no advantage by the way) trying to load up a bunch of wilds on the first spin in which case they will play it off, but if they brick they will leave it at spin 1. As the ploppies get more familiar with these games, they come to play one but every bet & every denom is already starting at spin 1 (a dead spin) instead of spin zero like it should, they get turned off and dont play, the machines get no action and get pulled.

Also the previously mentioned bonus hustlers that are not discrete and like to stand up and blast through each bet at full volume create new bonus hustlers as the ploppies see them and figure out what they are doing. One reason you find less plays now is that a lot of ploppies when they first sit down at one of these games will habitually check every bet before settling in to play having seen indiscrete hustlers do this.

Too bad that so many hustlers don’t take a long view or these machines and plays would last longer.
01-20-2020, 01:03 AM
accountinquestion

I wouldn't be so sure it is hustlers picking off the first play. If you are a reasonably smart ploppy then such a strategy should come to you naturally. I also see more people abandoning bad spins. I think this sort of thing works against all these value holding machines. People become aware of it and don't want to play with low multipliers and/or wilds. People start to really understand the mechanics. Why play HD when the numbers are bad? People start to understand how it works and what was once a draw to the game now chases people away. People play off the higher multipliers then it gets little action.

The last place I walked around in, more plays were to be found on OM than others.
01-20-2020, 01:36 AM
DGenBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I wouldn't be so sure it is hustlers picking off the first play. If you are a reasonably smart ploppy then such a strategy should come to you naturally. I also see more people abandoning bad spins. I think this sort of thing works against all these value holding machines. People become aware of it and don't want to play with low multipliers and/or wilds. People start to really understand the mechanics. Why play HD when the numbers are bad? People start to understand how it works and what was once a draw to the game now chases people away. People play off the higher multipliers then it gets little action.

The last place I walked around in, more plays were to be found on OM than others.

Good points.

So the more people figure the games out you keep needing dumber and dumber people to play them when they are extremely low EV to push them up into playable territory.

So as long as we have an endless supply of dumb people and they keep getting dumber on average, then these types of games should be sustainable.

Thank you, now that I look at it that way, there is no reason that these types of games should not continue to thrive well into the future!
01-20-2020, 06:14 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

Im seeing bonus machines start to get pulled from some places too and these are some of the likely reasons:

Hustlers get cute and lock the button panel at the highest bet highest denomination hoping a ploppy will accidentally play it and create a big play. In realty most ploppies are not going to take the time to figure out how to unlock the button panel and will just move on so the machine gets no action at all and gets pulled.

Along the same lines on multi-denom machines hustlers often leave it on the highest denom after they check it (even if they dont lock the button panel) I assume for either the same reason as above or so they will know if they already checked it since people rarely play the higher denoms. The problem with this is that most ploppies are not yet familiar with mulitdenom machines so if they walk by and see a line video slot is quarters, dimes or nickels, they will move on looking for pennies (not realizing they can just change it) so again these machines get no action and get pulled.

Hustlers also like to leave a bank of machines all on the highest bet for again I assume the same reasons and I think that also turns ploppies off. Ploppies are attracted to low minimum bets so when they walk by a bank where every machine is displaying a $6 or $7.50 bet they just move on even though a lower bet is available if they walked up to the machine and checked the button panel. So the machines get no action and they get pulled.

Plus ploppies don’t like a steady stream of sketchy looking people walking up to the machines right next to them and slamming on each bet at full volume without playing or getting stared at by same sketchy looking people who look like the spider waiting for the fly, so they can be the first to check the machine after the ploppy leaves. This causes ploppies to cash out and go somewhere else so the machines get less action and get pulled.

Another trend Im seeing recently is on the IGT games with a 10 spin cycle, some hustlers will take one spin on every bet, every denomination (no advantage by the way) trying to load up a bunch of wilds on the first spin in which case they will play it off, but if they brick they will leave it at spin 1. As the ploppies get more familiar with these games, they come to play one but every bet & every denom is already starting at spin 1 (a dead spin) instead of spin zero like it should, they get turned off and dont play, the machines get no action and get pulled.

Also the previously mentioned bonus hustlers that are not discrete and like to stand up and blast through each bet at full volume create new bonus hustlers as the ploppies see them and figure out what they are doing. One reason you find less plays now is that a lot of ploppies when they first sit down at one of these games will habitually check every bet before settling in to play having seen indiscrete hustlers do this.

Too bad that so many hustlers don’t take a long view or these machines and plays would last longer.

1. Locking buttons on big bets is a scam. This happened on Golden Egypt, Scarab, etc. I don’t believe in people deliberately hurting innocent people so they can make an extra buck. I unlock those high bets when I see them.

Locked buttons is also a way of marking machines. If you know the buttons are still locked to your specific bet amounts, then you don’t need to check the machines with the assumption is no one played them.

I teach people to mark machines without using the lock bet button. Usually, I leave it on the $1.50 bet when the choices are $0.75, $1.50, $2.25, $3.00 & $3.75. Or if it’s a matrix of 5 X 5, I leave it at a certain combination. It lets me and my network know the machine’s been checked. I have a good memory so I know the cash out amount and that helps me minimize the need to check machines.

2. Max bet means the machines has been checked. Most bonus hustlers OUT OF HABIT start with lowest bet and work their way to the top bet (because they were b*tt poor when they started in the business and the habit stuck with them). So it’s not uncommon to see a bank of bonus machines at it’s highest best or highest denominations if multi-denom. I never leave the machines at the Max bet to see who the bonus hustlers are or how many.

A lot of the times, you just follow their ticket and you find out who they are. Or, you might see the same or similar ticket amount in a bank of machines.

The deep pocket hustlers start in reverse with biggest bets / highest denominations and work to the smallest.

3. One or two spins on Scarabs or 10-game cycle. This makes sense in Reno in certain casinos with loose slots. It’s an option and those 10 games is akin to a Markov Chain. It cost you very little to see how well your game can turn out. It also discourages other bonus hustlers since people are less likely to play with fewer games remaining.

It’s the same thing with Ocean Magic & OM Grand to catch a streak. You see hustlers throw a few dollars to see the next 5 or 6 spins to catch bubbles. In Ocean Magic, the game is not as random as slots since bubbles do come in patterns and streaks.

4. The problem is the hustlers being too aggressive in that they themselves kill the game by milking every opportunity so the game fails to attract new players. In Peppermill & Atlantis, machines were being checked every 5 minutes and the casinos got tired of this sh*t behavior.

5. The game comes in different settings so don’t be surprised if the casino changed the settings to make the game harder to make money on them.

De-contenting means casinos remove bonus machines or altering them to be less prone to bonus hustlers.

Here is a true story: This one casino is well known for resetting their bonus machines. The word got around the Harley Davidson machines were reset so don’t play them. All night long, the bonus hustlers would not play them and one hustler who thought he was smarter than everyone jumped on the Mini at 35, which had been a good number. All night long, I’m getting texts about how high the free games were: in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s ... we were laughing our b*tts off ... 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 100’s ... the laughter turned into downright sorrow for the moron who didn’t get the memo ... it finally hit in the 140’s. Everyone hated that a-ho so we celebrated when he lost a sh*tload of money. Schadenfreude at it’s finest moment.

I was so happy that I retired a few years ago. It’s a different crowd now than when I first got started. These young kids don’t have manners or understand the word “discretion”. The word that best describes these youngsters is: Entitlement!
01-21-2020, 03:57 PM
DGenBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

Im seeing bonus machines start to get pulled from some places too and these are some of the likely reasons:

Hustlers get cute and lock the button panel at the highest bet highest denomination hoping a ploppy will accidentally play it and create a big play. In realty most ploppies are not going to take the time to figure out how to unlock the button panel and will just move on so the machine gets no action at all and gets pulled.

Along the same lines on multi-denom machines hustlers often leave it on the highest denom after they check it (even if they dont lock the button panel) I assume for either the same reason as above or so they will know if they already checked it since people rarely play the higher denoms. The problem with this is that most ploppies are not yet familiar with mulitdenom machines so if they walk by and see a line video slot is quarters, dimes or nickels, they will move on looking for pennies (not realizing they can just change it) so again these machines get no action and get pulled.

Hustlers also like to leave a bank of machines all on the highest bet for again I assume the same reasons and I think that also turns ploppies off. Ploppies are attracted to low minimum bets so when they walk by a bank where every machine is displaying a $6 or $7.50 bet they just move on even though a lower bet is available if they walked up to the machine and checked the button panel. So the machines get no action and they get pulled.

Plus ploppies don’t like a steady stream of sketchy looking people walking up to the machines right next to them and slamming on each bet at full volume without playing or getting stared at by same sketchy looking people who look like the spider waiting for the fly, so they can be the first to check the machine after the ploppy leaves. This causes ploppies to cash out and go somewhere else so the machines get less action and get pulled.

Another trend Im seeing recently is on the IGT games with a 10 spin cycle, some hustlers will take one spin on every bet, every denomination (no advantage by the way) trying to load up a bunch of wilds on the first spin in which case they will play it off, but if they brick they will leave it at spin 1. As the ploppies get more familiar with these games, they come to play one but every bet & every denom is already starting at spin 1 (a dead spin) instead of spin zero like it should, they get turned off and dont play, the machines get no action and get pulled.

Also the previously mentioned bonus hustlers that are not discrete and like to stand up and blast through each bet at full volume create new bonus hustlers as the ploppies see them and figure out what they are doing. One reason you find less plays now is that a lot of ploppies when they first sit down at one of these games will habitually check every bet before settling in to play having seen indiscrete hustlers do this.

Too bad that so many hustlers don’t take a long view or these machines and plays would last longer.

1. Locking buttons on big bets is a scam. This happened on Golden Egypt, Scarab, etc. I don’t believe in people deliberately hurting innocent people so they can make an extra buck. I unlock those high bets when I see them.

Locked buttons is also a way of marking machines. If you know the buttons are still locked to your specific bet amounts, then you don’t need to check the machines with the assumption is no one played them.

I teach people to mark machines without using the lock bet button. Usually, I leave it on the $1.50 bet when the choices are $0.75, $1.50, $2.25, $3.00 & $3.75. Or if it’s a matrix of 5 X 5, I leave it at a certain combination. It lets me and my network know the machine’s been checked. I have a good memory so I know the cash out amount and that helps me minimize the need to check machines.

2. Max bet means the machines has been checked. Most bonus hustlers OUT OF HABIT start with lowest bet and work their way to the top bet (because they were b*tt poor when they started in the business and the habit stuck with them). So it’s not uncommon to see a bank of bonus machines at it’s highest best or highest denominations if multi-denom. I never leave the machines at the Max bet to see who the bonus hustlers are or how many.

A lot of the times, you just follow their ticket and you find out who they are. Or, you might see the same or similar ticket amount in a bank of machines.

The deep pocket hustlers start in reverse with biggest bets / highest denominations and work to the smallest.

3. One or two spins on Scarabs or 10-game cycle. This makes sense in Reno in certain casinos with loose slots. It’s an option and those 10 games is akin to a Markov Chain. It cost you very little to see how well your game can turn out. It also discourages other bonus hustlers since people are less likely to play with fewer games remaining.

It’s the same thing with Ocean Magic & OM Grand to catch a streak. You see hustlers throw a few dollars to see the next 5 or 6 spins to catch bubbles. In Ocean Magic, the game is not as random as slots since bubbles do come in patterns and streaks.

4. The problem is the hustlers being too aggressive in that they themselves kill the game by milking every opportunity so the game fails to attract new players. In Peppermill & Atlantis, machines were being checked every 5 minutes and the casinos got tired of this sh*t behavior.

5. The game comes in different settings so don’t be surprised if the casino changed the settings to make the game harder to make money on them.

De-contenting means casinos remove bonus machines or altering them to be less prone to bonus hustlers.

Here is a true story: This one casino is well known for resetting their bonus machines. The word got around the Harley Davidson machines were reset so don’t play them. All night long, the bonus hustlers would not play them and one hustler who thought he was smarter than everyone jumped on the Mini at 35, which had been a good number. All night long, I’m getting texts about how high the free games were: in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s ... we were laughing our b*tts off ... 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 100’s ... the laughter turned into downright sorrow for the moron who didn’t get the memo ... it finally hit in the 140’s. Everyone hated that a-ho so we celebrated when he lost a sh*tload of money. Schadenfreude at it’s finest moment.

I was so happy that I retired a few years ago. It’s a different crowd now than when I first got started. These young kids don’t have manners or understand the word “discretion”. The word that best describes these youngsters is: Entitlement!

You are so right about the starting w the lower bet for new / broke hustlers and starting w the higher bet for deep pocketed hustlers. I had never even thought about that but that gave me a laugh because I realized I did that when I started. I almost didn’t want to see a play on a big bet because if it went bad it could put me in the hole for the night.

As I got more confident and had more $ I’d start w the big bets looking for the juicy stuff and be disappointed when there was a good play on the small bet but not on the big bet.

As for looking at ticket amounts there is this one guy who is a huge A$$ho&e that always pays close attention to other peoples ticket amounts. What I started doing whenever he was also in a joint that I was working is I would put my big ticket in my wallet and just put a fresh $20 or small ticket in any machine I was checking. It was a bit of a hassle, but it gave me great pleasure knowing it created more work for him to have to check each bet again on machines that I already picked clean.

If he happened to see me working a bank I knew that as soon as I left he would look to see what I cashed out at so in that case I would throw my big ticket back in and if I could get away with it without him seeing, I would also try to insert an extra $1000-$2000 on top of the big ticket to try to tilt him thinking I was having a monster night!

Ah, what a crazy business this is!
01-21-2020, 06:28 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

You are so right about the starting w the lower bet for new / broke hustlers and starting w the higher bet for deep pocketed hustlers. I had never even thought about that but that gave me a laugh because I realized I did that when I started. I almost didn’t want to see a play on a big bet because if it went bad it could put me in the hole for the night.

As I got more confident and had more $ I’d start w the big bets looking for the juicy stuff and be disappointed when there was a good play on the small bet but not on the big bet.

As for looking at ticket amounts there is this one guy who is a huge A$$ho&e that always pays close attention to other peoples ticket amounts. What I started doing whenever he was also in a joint that I was working is I would put my big ticket in my wallet and just put a fresh $20 or small ticket in any machine I was checking. It was a bit of a hassle, but it gave me great pleasure knowing it created more work for him to have to check each bet again on machines that I already picked clean.

If he happened to see me working a bank I knew that as soon as I left he would look to see what I cashed out at so in that case I would throw my big ticket back in and if I could get away with it without him seeing, I would also try to insert an extra $1000-$2000 on top of the big ticket to try to tilt him thinking I was having a monster night!

Ah, what a crazy business this is!

That is a good story about the big ticket.

Here are few things to know: most casinos cannot track the ticket, they have to use surveillance to track you at a machine. But we hustlers can track the tickets because they are being played on (solely) bonus machines.

I used to keep 1 ticket for ease of accounting: last ticket minus starting capital = profit or loss (there were times I had to reach in my big bankroll to play $2.50+ a spin for over 1,000+ spins where you could lose $400 to $600). 95% of the time, I never had to reach in for more money.

Then people started tracking me to see what games I would play... I was inadvertently teaching them the new games. I kept a spare $1 ticket to clear my “footprint” but that was a hassle so I now cash out and start over once I hit a certain amount.

I also use the big ticket as a psychological tool especially after a competing hustler lost money on marginal plays. I’ll walk up and insert my ticket and the a-ho blows up seeing how my ticket is way bigger than his and how my ticket has been going up all night long. I have also been guilty of adding benji’s throughout the night to fatten my ticket.

This is partly when I retired ... people shared the machines, and then it became teams would camp and vulture this blocking out the competition and then security had to get involved (because they won’t share). There is going to be competition but don’t be an a-ho because you can’t stand the competition or that some people are smarter than you or have more money than you.
01-21-2020, 06:54 PM
DGenBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

You are so right about the starting w the lower bet for new / broke hustlers and starting w the higher bet for deep pocketed hustlers. I had never even thought about that but that gave me a laugh because I realized I did that when I started. I almost didn’t want to see a play on a big bet because if it went bad it could put me in the hole for the night.

As I got more confident and had more $ I’d start w the big bets looking for the juicy stuff and be disappointed when there was a good play on the small bet but not on the big bet.

As for looking at ticket amounts there is this one guy who is a huge A$$ho&e that always pays close attention to other peoples ticket amounts. What I started doing whenever he was also in a joint that I was working is I would put my big ticket in my wallet and just put a fresh $20 or small ticket in any machine I was checking. It was a bit of a hassle, but it gave me great pleasure knowing it created more work for him to have to check each bet again on machines that I already picked clean.

If he happened to see me working a bank I knew that as soon as I left he would look to see what I cashed out at so in that case I would throw my big ticket back in and if I could get away with it without him seeing, I would also try to insert an extra $1000-$2000 on top of the big ticket to try to tilt him thinking I was having a monster night!

Ah, what a crazy business this is!

That is a good story about the big ticket.

Here are few things to know: most casinos cannot track the ticket, they have to use surveillance to track you at a machine. But we hustlers can track the tickets because they are being played on (solely) bonus machines.

I used to keep 1 ticket for ease of accounting: last ticket minus starting capital = profit or loss (there were times I had to reach in my big bankroll to play $2.50+ a spin for over 1,000+ spins where you could lose $400 to $600). 95% of the time, I never had to reach in for more money.

Then people started tracking me to see what games I would play... I was inadvertently teaching them the new games. I kept a spare $1 ticket to clear my “footprint” but that was a hassle so I now cash out and start over once I hit a certain amount.

I also use the big ticket as a psychological tool especially after a competing hustler lost money on marginal plays. I’ll walk up and insert my ticket and the a-ho blows up seeing how my ticket is way bigger than his and how my ticket has been going up all night long. I have also been guilty of adding benji’s throughout the night to fatten my ticket.

This is partly when I retired ... people shared the machines, and then it became teams would camp and vulture this blocking out the competition and then security had to get involved (because they won’t share). There is going to be competition but don’t be an a-ho because you can’t stand the competition or that some people are smarter than you or have more money than you.

Yes, following people to learn, that is partly how I first learned. Now if I know a juicy machine that few if any other people know I actually look around to see if anyone is following me before I play it.

I am still fairly new to this but have actually been surprised how few Aholes there are. Ive actually made some good friends doing this and have found there are generally:

- friendly hustlers

- hustlers that keep to themselves but are respectful (ie not check a bank when they see you are already working it)

-clueless hustlers, the ones that bang on all the bets at full volume right next to you, not because they are Aholes but because they just don’t know any better.

-and the occasional Ahole.

But man Ill tell you, when you meet that occasional Ahole, they are really big Aholes!
01-21-2020, 06:54 PM
DGenBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

You are so right about the starting w the lower bet for new / broke hustlers and starting w the higher bet for deep pocketed hustlers. I had never even thought about that but that gave me a laugh because I realized I did that when I started. I almost didn’t want to see a play on a big bet because if it went bad it could put me in the hole for the night.

As I got more confident and had more $ I’d start w the big bets looking for the juicy stuff and be disappointed when there was a good play on the small bet but not on the big bet.

As for looking at ticket amounts there is this one guy who is a huge A$$ho&e that always pays close attention to other peoples ticket amounts. What I started doing whenever he was also in a joint that I was working is I would put my big ticket in my wallet and just put a fresh $20 or small ticket in any machine I was checking. It was a bit of a hassle, but it gave me great pleasure knowing it created more work for him to have to check each bet again on machines that I already picked clean.

If he happened to see me working a bank I knew that as soon as I left he would look to see what I cashed out at so in that case I would throw my big ticket back in and if I could get away with it without him seeing, I would also try to insert an extra $1000-$2000 on top of the big ticket to try to tilt him thinking I was having a monster night!

Ah, what a crazy business this is!

That is a good story about the big ticket.

Here are few things to know: most casinos cannot track the ticket, they have to use surveillance to track you at a machine. But we hustlers can track the tickets because they are being played on (solely) bonus machines.

I used to keep 1 ticket for ease of accounting: last ticket minus starting capital = profit or loss (there were times I had to reach in my big bankroll to play $2.50+ a spin for over 1,000+ spins where you could lose $400 to $600). 95% of the time, I never had to reach in for more money.

Then people started tracking me to see what games I would play... I was inadvertently teaching them the new games. I kept a spare $1 ticket to clear my “footprint” but that was a hassle so I now cash out and start over once I hit a certain amount.

I also use the big ticket as a psychological tool especially after a competing hustler lost money on marginal plays. I’ll walk up and insert my ticket and the a-ho blows up seeing how my ticket is way bigger than his and how my ticket has been going up all night long. I have also been guilty of adding benji’s throughout the night to fatten my ticket.

This is partly when I retired ... people shared the machines, and then it became teams would camp and vulture this blocking out the competition and then security had to get involved (because they won’t share). There is going to be competition but don’t be an a-ho because you can’t stand the competition or that some people are smarter than you or have more money than you.

Yes, following people to learn, that is partly how I first learned. Now if I know a juicy machine that few if any other people know I actually look around to see if anyone is following me before I play it.

I am still fairly new to this but have actually been surprised how few Aholes there are. Ive actually made some good friends doing this and have found there are generally:

- friendly hustlers

- hustlers that keep to themselves but are respectful (ie not check a bank when they see you are already working it)

-clueless hustlers, the ones that bang on all the bets at full volume right next to you, not because they are Aholes but because they just don’t know any better.

-and the occasional Ahole.

But man Ill tell you, when you meet that occasional Ahole, they are really big Aholes!
01-22-2020, 07:41 AM
Dan Druff

Interesting story about the hustler using the lock button to keep the machine on a higher denomination, hoping the ploppies won't notice and will just spin it into +EV territory.

I wonder how well that works.
01-22-2020, 02:05 PM
mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Interesting story about the hustler using the lock button to keep the machine on a higher denomination, hoping the ploppies won't notice and will just spin it into +EV territory.

I wonder how well that works.

The Golden Egypts were the main game they did this on. I don't recall ever finding a play at max bet where it was locked on that bet level. So not very effective, in my opinion.
01-22-2020, 02:08 PM
mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

Im seeing bonus machines start to get pulled from some places too and these are some of the likely reasons:

Hustlers get cute and lock the button panel at the highest bet highest denomination hoping a ploppy will accidentally play it and create a big play. In realty most ploppies are not going to take the time to figure out how to unlock the button panel and will just move on so the machine gets no action at all and gets pulled.

Along the same lines on multi-denom machines hustlers often leave it on the highest denom after they check it (even if they dont lock the button panel) I assume for either the same reason as above or so they will know if they already checked it since people rarely play the higher denoms. The problem with this is that most ploppies are not yet familiar with mulitdenom machines so if they walk by and see a line video slot is quarters, dimes or nickels, they will move on looking for pennies (not realizing they can just change it) so again these machines get no action and get pulled.

Hustlers also like to leave a bank of machines all on the highest bet for again I assume the same reasons and I think that also turns ploppies off. Ploppies are attracted to low minimum bets so when they walk by a bank where every machine is displaying a $6 or $7.50 bet they just move on even though a lower bet is available if they walked up to the machine and checked the button panel. So the machines get no action and they get pulled.

Plus ploppies don’t like a steady stream of sketchy looking people walking up to the machines right next to them and slamming on each bet at full volume without playing or getting stared at by same sketchy looking people who look like the spider waiting for the fly, so they can be the first to check the machine after the ploppy leaves. This causes ploppies to cash out and go somewhere else so the machines get less action and get pulled.

Another trend Im seeing recently is on the IGT games with a 10 spin cycle, some hustlers will take one spin on every bet, every denomination (no advantage by the way) trying to load up a bunch of wilds on the first spin in which case they will play it off, but if they brick they will leave it at spin 1. As the ploppies get more familiar with these games, they come to play one but every bet & every denom is already starting at spin 1 (a dead spin) instead of spin zero like it should, they get turned off and dont play, the machines get no action and get pulled.

Also the previously mentioned bonus hustlers that are not discrete and like to stand up and blast through each bet at full volume create new bonus hustlers as the ploppies see them and figure out what they are doing. One reason you find less plays now is that a lot of ploppies when they first sit down at one of these games will habitually check every bet before settling in to play having seen indiscrete hustlers do this.

Too bad that so many hustlers don’t take a long view or these machines and plays would last longer.

1. Locking buttons on big bets is a scam. This happened on Golden Egypt, Scarab, etc. I don’t believe in people deliberately hurting innocent people so they can make an extra buck. I unlock those high bets when I see them.

Locked buttons is also a way of marking machines. If you know the buttons are still locked to your specific bet amounts, then you don’t need to check the machines with the assumption is no one played them.

I teach people to mark machines without using the lock bet button. Usually, I leave it on the $1.50 bet when the choices are $0.75, $1.50, $2.25, $3.00 & $3.75. Or if it’s a matrix of 5 X 5, I leave it at a certain combination. It lets me and my network know the machine’s been checked. I have a good memory so I know the cash out amount and that helps me minimize the need to check machines.

2. Max bet means the machines has been checked. Most bonus hustlers OUT OF HABIT start with lowest bet and work their way to the top bet (because they were b*tt poor when they started in the business and the habit stuck with them). So it’s not uncommon to see a bank of bonus machines at it’s highest best or highest denominations if multi-denom. I never leave the machines at the Max bet to see who the bonus hustlers are or how many.

A lot of the times, you just follow their ticket and you find out who they are. Or, you might see the same or similar ticket amount in a bank of machines.

The deep pocket hustlers start in reverse with biggest bets / highest denominations and work to the smallest.

3. One or two spins on Scarabs or 10-game cycle. This makes sense in Reno in certain casinos with loose slots. It’s an option and those 10 games is akin to a Markov Chain. It cost you very little to see how well your game can turn out. It also discourages other bonus hustlers since people are less likely to play with fewer games remaining.

It’s the same thing with Ocean Magic & OM Grand to catch a streak. You see hustlers throw a few dollars to see the next 5 or 6 spins to catch bubbles. In Ocean Magic, the game is not as random as slots since bubbles do come in patterns and streaks.

4. The problem is the hustlers being too aggressive in that they themselves kill the game by milking every opportunity so the game fails to attract new players. In Peppermill & Atlantis, machines were being checked every 5 minutes and the casinos got tired of this sh*t behavior.

5. The game comes in different settings so don’t be surprised if the casino changed the settings to make the game harder to make money on them.

De-contenting means casinos remove bonus machines or altering them to be less prone to bonus hustlers.

Here is a true story: This one casino is well known for resetting their bonus machines. The word got around the Harley Davidson machines were reset so don’t play them. All night long, the bonus hustlers would not play them and one hustler who thought he was smarter than everyone jumped on the Mini at 35, which had been a good number. All night long, I’m getting texts about how high the free games were: in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s ... we were laughing our b*tts off ... 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 100’s ... the laughter turned into downright sorrow for the moron who didn’t get the memo ... it finally hit in the 140’s. Everyone hated that a-ho so we celebrated when he lost a sh*tload of money. Schadenfreude at it’s finest moment.

I was so happy that I retired a few years ago. It’s a different crowd now than when I first got started. These young kids don’t have manners or understand the word “discretion”. The word that best describes these youngsters is: Entitlement!

The story about the Harley's might be true but has nothing to do with why the mini ran to 140. And I never seen a bank of harley's where a mini at 35 was a good play unless the maxi was over 30.
01-22-2020, 04:41 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The story about the Harley's might be true but has nothing to do with why the mini ran to 140. And I never seen a bank of harley's where a mini at 35 was a good play unless the maxi was over 30.

1. The game got changed. The cycle times were altered.

2. Anytime a casino changes the chip, it could hit non-stop or it could not hit at all.

The 140+ Mini was a combination of both longer cycle times and bad pRNG. I know the guy who witnessed it and sending me the texts. He is a smart & solid player.

Btw, when the Harley’s first came out the Mini at 35 was a play. Anything over 32 on the Mini were being taken down by Ploppies or Hustlers. You rarely see anything 35 or up as someone was willing to play at a lower number.

This casino also changed Crazy Money II which used to have a 55-spin cycle for the bonus round and that changed to 70-spin cycle and destroyed the play. It also nerfed another bonus game where you could get 2X, 3X, 4X or 5X in the free games and the $0.75, $1.00 & 1.50 were changed where now 95% of the time it was 2X when getting 5X was pretty common before the change.

People don’t know the slot machine comes in different versions so the casino can downgrade the version anytime without the players knowing.

Also, Golden Egypt went through many versions as well: first version landed with one coin in each column in each game; the last version had one coin in the third column. I remembered noticing how coin drop rates in the first two columns got changed. Games change. The latter versions don’t play as well.
01-22-2020, 05:35 PM
Ex-AP

A few more comments.

- Anyone can check the machine. Even the Ploppies check them. It’s not our machines or our casinos.

- Not all hustlers play the same: some are tight, some are loose & aggressive, some are looking for marginal plays to get coin in’s for mailers or more comps or both

- Not all bonus machines are the same: some are more valuable for camouflage purposes like Scarab, Joe Blow, etc

- You will get a-ho’s that try to intimidate you; some will rat you out to the casinos (it sucks when it happens but you just have to deal with it); some will doxx you (happened to me twice and I didn’t know what doxxing was until someone explained it to me); some will collude and lie to casino that you harass them (which is STUPID since we are being filmed), etc

- You will get teams that camp and vulture so you can’t check certain banks of the better games. Some casinos have no camping rules and some casinos don’t. In one particular casino, you can’t lock up a machine, e.g. turn the seat around and throw a jacket on the seat. In Reno, it’s okay if a team locks up a bank of a progressive RF, but that doesn’t work in this casino.

- From my experience, the younger Hustlers or new Hustlers are quick to pick a fight because they were not making money or are more territorial and won’t share. I get yelled at regularly. I had some physically push me of a machine or cut me off and steal my play.

- The really bad hustlers are the ones that check 3 machines at once, or go through a bank of 5+ machines super fast, etc

- Some hustlers don’t like you watching them (but it’s okay when they watch you so they can learn)

- Some take it personally if you are better than them and that’s why they don’t make money.

Every casino has it’s own rules. At Thunder Valley, if you check machines and don’t play, you get on a list and the eye in the sky watches you and that is how you get kicked out. At another casino, they track your winnings and what machines you played and once you made over a certain threshold, you get the tap on the shoulder. A lot of this stuff is very secretive and not shared.

These Reno hustler refugees are going to find out the hard way, the casinos in North California ain’t Reno and many casinos won’t put up with their behavior.

Lastly, if you want to network, proceed with caution. Backstabbing is the norm here.
01-22-2020, 05:58 PM
DGenBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Interesting story about the hustler using the lock button to keep the machine on a higher denomination, hoping the ploppies won't notice and will just spin it into +EV territory.

I wonder how well that works.

The Golden Egypts were the main game they did this on. I don't recall ever finding a play at max bet where it was locked on that bet level. So not very effective, in my opinion.

This has been exactly my experience too, never seen a play on a maxed locked bet. I think it is newer and / or clueless hustlers that do this because all it does is kill the action on a bank. Smart Hustlers want a bank to get lots of action to create plays.

As an aside, the button panel can obviously be unlocked by simply tapping “ unlock panel button “ but ploppies are oblivious and have tunnel vision (which is why they leave behind plays in the first place) so they just move on to a different machine if it is locked on max bet.
01-22-2020, 06:06 PM
DGenBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The story about the Harley's might be true but has nothing to do with why the mini ran to 140. And I never seen a bank of harley's where a mini at 35 was a good play unless the maxi was over 30.

1. The game got changed. The cycle times were altered.

2. Anytime a casino changes the chip, it could hit non-stop or it could not hit at all.

The 140+ Mini was a combination of both longer cycle times and bad pRNG. I know the guy who witnessed it and sending me the texts. He is a smart & solid player.

Btw, when the Harley’s first came out the Mini at 35 was a play. Anything over 32 on the Mini were being taken down by Ploppies or Hustlers. You rarely see anything 35 or up as someone was willing to play at a lower number.

This casino also changed Crazy Money II which used to have a 55-spin cycle for the bonus round and that changed to 70-spin cycle and destroyed the play. It also nerfed another bonus game where you could get 2X, 3X, 4X or 5X in the free games and the $0.75, $1.00 & 1.50 were changed where now 95% of the time it was 2X when getting 5X was pretty common before the change.

People don’t know the slot machine comes in different versions so the casino can downgrade the version anytime without the players knowing.

Also, Golden Egypt went through many versions as well: first version landed with one coin in each column in each game; the last version had one coin in the third column. I remembered noticing how coin drop rates in the first two columns got changed. Games change. The latter versions don’t play as well.

Very interesting. Ive heard people discuss this before about how a new game is juicy and later drys up and debate whether the game was changed or it was just due to variance.
01-22-2020, 07:27 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

Very interesting. Ive heard people discuss this before about how a new game is juicy and later drys up and debate whether the game was changed or it was just due to variance.

We have a guy who travels; he is not a statistician but studied stats in grad school for data analysis skills. If you ask him the number for a game, he will tell you. He is not a Bonus Hustler but plays them and best part is he cracks the game: bonus rounds, RTP’s, meter movements, and when there are ways to exploit game design defects, e.g. game wasn’t designed correctly. He lets us know which machines are new and how to beat them, the level of competition, etc.

He has benchmarked numerous games so he knew when the Harley’s were changed, e.g. increased frequency of the bonus symbol in column 3 thus makes game harder to win (since there are less winning combinations). In Wheel of Fortune 4D, the Scatter symbol appearing in Column 2 frequently kills the game and devalues the banked “$” that turns wild. Really anal-retentive stuff that almost no one pays attention to.

I will share Joe Blow since I did some work independent of what he did. We trade notes from time to time. There were 4 versions of Joe Blow in North Cali market. The loosest one is gone. In this version, any 6 firecrackers (or dynamites) was a play since firecrackers awarded were decidedly non-linear, e.g. your chances at next firecracker was based on existing number of firecrackers. The more firecrackers you saw the better. But this version is gone.

The next version had a visual: if two or more “reels” showed 3 firecrackers spinning by, you had a 95%+ chance of being awarded 3 firecrackers in at least one “reel”.

The worst version had a RTP in the 85% range and was very hard to beat using stand rules.

What is left is the 3rd version in most casinos and is pretty easy to make money on if you know what you are doing.

These bonus machines come in different settings so it’s important to know which version is which.
01-22-2020, 07:39 PM
mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The story about the Harley's might be true but has nothing to do with why the mini ran to 140. And I never seen a bank of harley's where a mini at 35 was a good play unless the maxi was over 30.

1. The game got changed. The cycle times were altered.

2. Anytime a casino changes the chip, it could hit non-stop or it could not hit at all.

The 140+ Mini was a combination of both longer cycle times and bad pRNG. I know the guy who witnessed it and sending me the texts. He is a smart & solid player.

Btw, when the Harley’s first came out the Mini at 35 was a play. Anything over 32 on the Mini were being taken down by Ploppies or Hustlers. You rarely see anything 35 or up as someone was willing to play at a lower number.

This casino also changed Crazy Money II which used to have a 55-spin cycle for the bonus round and that changed to 70-spin cycle and destroyed the play. It also nerfed another bonus game where you could get 2X, 3X, 4X or 5X in the free games and the $0.75, $1.00 & 1.50 were changed where now 95% of the time it was 2X when getting 5X was pretty common before the change.

People don’t know the slot machine comes in different versions so the casino can downgrade the version anytime without the players knowing.

Also, Golden Egypt went through many versions as well: first version landed with one coin in each column in each game; the last version had one coin in the third column. I remembered noticing how coin drop rates in the first two columns got changed. Games change. The latter versions don’t play as well.

Have you ever read Nevada law about changing the RTP on a slot game?
01-22-2020, 08:11 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Have you ever read Nevada law about changing the RTP on a slot game?

1. A long, long time ago I saw a casino on the East Coast change the chip and a Regulator was there watching the process.

2. Games are now on “servers” in NV is what I was led to believe.

3. I am talking about Indian casinos who can do the hell they want. Heck, we aren’t in USA anymore when enter their “sovereign” land.
01-22-2020, 08:18 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Have you ever read Nevada law about changing the RTP on a slot game?

1. A long, long time ago I saw a casino on the East Coast change the chip and a Regulator was there watching the process.

2. Games are now on “servers” in NV is what I was led to believe.

3. I am talking about Indian casinos who can do the hell they want. Heck, we aren’t in USA anymore when enter their “sovereign” land.

Here is an article from 2006 about slots being on servers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/t...achine-in.html

“ In the past, changing out a slot machine was a complicated operation and entailed opening it, replacing the computer chip inside, then changing the glass display that markets the game's theme. The alteration usually took a day and could cost thousands of dollars, from ordering parts to modifying the machine.

"Now, I just come to my office, and select the program," said Mr. Beltram, the 28-year-old executive director for slots at Treasure Island, which is owned by the MGM Mirage. "With the technology, it takes 20 seconds."

That was 2006, almost 14 years ago.
01-22-2020, 08:21 PM
mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

Very interesting. Ive heard people discuss this before about how a new game is juicy and later drys up and debate whether the game was changed or it was just due to variance.

We have a guy who travels; he is not a statistician but studied stats in grad school for data analysis skills. If you ask him the number for a game, he will tell you. He is not a Bonus Hustler but plays them and best part is he cracks the game: bonus rounds, RTP’s, meter movements, and when there are ways to exploit game design defects, e.g. game wasn’t designed correctly. He lets us know which machines are new and how to beat them, the level of competition, etc.

He has benchmarked numerous games so he knew when the Harley’s were changed, e.g. increased frequency of the bonus symbol in column 3 thus makes game harder to win (since there are less winning combinations). In Wheel of Fortune 4D, the Scatter symbol appearing in Column 2 frequently kills the game and devalues the banked “$” that turns wild. Really anal-retentive stuff that almost no one pays attention to.

I will share Joe Blow since I did some work independent of what he did. We trade notes from time to time. There were 4 versions of Joe Blow in North Cali market. The loosest one is gone. In this version, any 6 firecrackers (or dynamites) was a play since firecrackers awarded were decidedly non-linear, e.g. your chances at next firecracker was based on existing number of firecrackers. The more firecrackers you saw the better. But this version is gone.

The next version had a visual: if two or more “reels” showed 3 firecrackers spinning by, you had a 95%+ chance of being awarded 3 firecrackers in at least one “reel”.

The worst version had a RTP in the 85% range and was very hard to beat using stand rules.

What is left is the 3rd version in most casinos and is pretty easy to make money on if you know what you are doing.

These bonus machines come in different settings so it’s important to know which version is which.

The harley's are a shared revenue game so a low payback to start with. I spent significant time analyzing the game along some friends. We put the game at 85%. And the mini in the low 30's was never a play unless the maxi was in the 30's and you did an either/or. But the game was beatable with correct numbers.

So the houses were making 15% on the game and then they lowered the payback from there? I've never bought this kind of crap from other AP's.
01-22-2020, 09:00 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The harley's are a shared revenue game so a low payback to start with. I spent significant time analyzing the game along some friends. We put the game at 85%. And the mini in the low 30's was never a play unless the maxi was in the 30's and you did an either/or. But the game was beatable with correct numbers.

So the houses were making 15% on the game and then they lowered the payback from there? I've never bought this kind of crap from other AP's.

1. This turned out to be a good thread and is why bonus hustlers need to be careful.

2. I first got wind of the 35 number for Mini because it can out of Vegas. I didn’t trust that number. It wasn’t until a East Coast contact independently arrive at the same 35 number that I started playing HD. So when two smart sets of people arrive at the same number independent of each other after clocking the reels, it was no accident. People were making money off the 35 number for mini’s.

3. The low payback was probably due to Micky’s team not including the Progressive jackpot.

Moral of this thread: Folks, we are dealing with information asymmetry and the game’s setting is highly dependent on where you play; these machines have different settings.
01-22-2020, 09:10 PM
Ex-AP

Hey Mickey, here is one thing my group does that almost no other AP group does when solving bonus machines.

We use option theory due to the high asymmetrical, rare payoffs.

For example we would use a Markov chain to explain Scarab. I have never heard of a group that uses option pricing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain
01-22-2020, 10:01 PM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

- You will get a-ho’s that try to intimidate you; some will rat you out to the casinos (it sucks when it happens but you just have to deal with it); some will doxx you (happened to me twice and I didn’t know what doxxing was until someone explained it to me); some will collude and lie to casino that you harass them (which is STUPID since we are being filmed), etc

- You will get teams that camp and vulture so you can’t check certain banks of the better games. Some casinos have no camping rules and some casinos don’t. In one particular casino, you can’t lock up a machine, e.g. turn the seat around and throw a jacket on the seat. In Reno, it’s okay if a team locks up a bank of a progressive RF, but that doesn’t work in this casino.

EVBandit, the Filipino crew regularly engages in all of the above. Pretty sure they were single-handedly responsible for getting several lucrative slots 86'ed from the floor like VG,OS,PnZ,HD,EK,GG,AF,2/3rds of the TS's and the GJs, with their endless campouts and ploppy alienations.
01-22-2020, 10:04 PM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGenBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Interesting story about the hustler using the lock button to keep the machine on a higher denomination, hoping the ploppies won't notice and will just spin it into +EV territory.

I wonder how well that works.

The Golden Egypts were the main game they did this on. I don't recall ever finding a play at max bet where it was locked on that bet level. So not very effective, in my opinion.

This has been exactly my experience too, never seen a play on a maxed locked bet. I think it is newer and / or clueless hustlers that do this because all it does is kill the action on a bank. Smart Hustlers want a bank to get lots of action to create plays.

As an aside, the button panel can obviously be unlocked by simply tapping “ unlock panel button “ but ploppies are oblivious and have tunnel vision (which is why they leave behind plays in the first place) so they just move on to a different machine if it is locked on max bet.

Bingo.
01-22-2020, 11:05 PM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Hey Mickey, here is one thing my group does that almost no other AP group does when solving bonus machines.

We use option theory due to the high asymmetrical, rare payoffs.

For example we would use a Markov chain to explain Scarab. I have never heard of a group that uses option pricing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain

EVBandit, that's quite a bit of work for what would be quite a small amount of EV gain versus just basic visual shit for determining if a scarab is a play (swatting a fly with a sledgehammer).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

I am not a fan of these games including Buffalo Diamond, but I keep seeing high number of banked games from $0.01, $0.02, $0.05 & $0.10.

Any feedback would be appreciated on FarmVille.

Anyway, I'm sure your stats friend along with your team of quants can help you determine when Farmville is a play, so there is no need to ask here about when it is a play. Markov chains, Backpropagation Neural Networks, Black Scholes Options Models, Deep Learning Neural Networks, Simulated Bifurcation Algorithms, Genetic Algorithms. Your team can just run Farmville on its supercomputers - you'll have the numbers pegged exactly in no time !
01-23-2020, 12:11 AM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

EVBandit, that's quite a bit of work for what would be quite a small amount of EV gain versus just basic visual shit for determining if a scarab is a play (swatting a fly with a sledgehammer).

1. There are 3 main ways to make money from Scarab. Just about everyone knows the first way, but for the last two because you need to know option math.

2. My buddies on East Coast were playing high Denominations Scarabs so option math is crucial. This isn’t $15 a spin we’re are talking about.

Don’t worry, you wouldn’t know what option math was if you ran into it. I’ll give you an example, take that are Ainsworth $10K MH’s Major and $500 Minor. You got a strike price right in front of your face. So what is the cost of the option?

You have Visual Basic so good luck with that.
01-23-2020, 12:58 AM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

Anyway, I'm sure your stats friend along with your team of quants can help you determine when Farmville is a play, so there is no need to ask here about when it is a play. Markov chains, Backpropagation Neural Networks, Black Scholes Options Models, Deep Learning Neural Networks, Simulated Bifurcation Algorithms, Genetic Algorithms. Your team can just run Farmville on its supercomputers - you'll have the numbers pegged exactly in no time !

I knew about Buffalo Diamond before it became popular. I got a buddy of mine from Vegas to give me the numbers before other AP’s or Hustlers knew about the game.

We already knew where the machines were located
https://www.aristocrat-us.com/where-to-play

If you didn’t play in the first few weeks you missed out on the high information asymmetry. Same with FarmVille.

I wrote before I don’t play every game, e.g. the Must Hits because I don’t like banging on the buttons for hours. I specialized on certain bonus machines, especially the ones with design exploits. Any monkey can figure the easy Scarab plays but not the hard ones. Same with Wild Pirates, Fortune Rooster, etc.

There is something about a game that we know that most bonus hustlers miss: take Jurassic Park Trilogy, you get more bonus symbols for the 4th column than the 2nd column but the plays are mostly on the 2nd column. Take Wild Explosion, there’s a 6-cell sweet spot to chase and a simple rule to follow. Take Star Goddess where the perimeters cells expand only to 6 cells. These knowledge of little things reduce our losses and variance. That doesn’t happen on MH’s, Buffalo Diamond, FarmVille, etc.

We knew about Pop ‘N Play when it first landed in Robinson casino in Nice in Lake County in April 2019. We know plays in small casinos and out of the way casinos with little or no competition. We know where the IGT 5 for 2 VBJ machines are still located, e.g. one machine was at Colusa for 4 short months before an AP burn it out. Cache Creek has single 0 Video Roulette machine to cycle your free play. We know where the 99.5% machines are in Red Hawk. There are still progressive Keno AP’s at an unnamed casino.

Lots of easy money to be made so no need to waste brain cells on games where our ROIC is poor since everyone knows about it. How are we going to get an meaningful edge when teams are camping out on Buffalo Diamond or FarmVille? Btw, you never see 25 on the lowest level in FarmVille; due to competition, someone will play it at 22.

So don’t under-estimate option pricing theory for asymmetrical payoffs. And play bonus machines no one knows about because others haven’t figured them out. Unlike you, I got a guy who cracks bonus slots as a hobby so I get lots of leads. He makes his money selling plays to APs; sometimes it’s a poorly designed promo, other times it’s a 99.7% video poker game by mistake, etc.

So pick your best plays.
01-23-2020, 04:18 AM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

Anyway, I'm sure your stats friend along with your team of quants can help you determine when Farmville is a play, so there is no need to ask here about when it is a play. Markov chains, Backpropagation Neural Networks, Black Scholes Options Models, Deep Learning Neural Networks, Simulated Bifurcation Algorithms, Genetic Algorithms. Your team can just run Farmville on its supercomputers - you'll have the numbers pegged exactly in no time !

I knew about Buffalo Diamond before it became popular. I got a buddy of mine from Vegas to give me the numbers before other AP’s or Hustlers knew about the game.

We already knew where the machines were located
https://www.aristocrat-us.com/where-to-play

If you didn’t play in the first few weeks you missed out on the high information asymmetry. Same with FarmVille.

I wrote before I don’t play every game, e.g. the Must Hits because I don’t like banging on the buttons for hours. I specialized on certain bonus machines, especially the ones with design exploits. Any monkey can figure the easy Scarab plays but not the hard ones. Same with Wild Pirates, Fortune Rooster, etc.

There is something about a game that we know that most bonus hustlers miss: take Jurassic Park Trilogy, you get more bonus symbols for the 4th column than the 2nd column but the plays are mostly on the 2nd column. Take Wild Explosion, there’s a 6-cell sweet spot to chase and a simple rule to follow. Take Star Goddess where the perimeters cells expand only to 6 cells. These knowledge of little things reduce our losses and variance. That doesn’t happen on MH’s, Buffalo Diamond, FarmVille, etc.

We knew about Pop ‘N Play when it first landed in Robinson casino in Nice in Lake County in April 2019. We know plays in small casinos and out of the way casinos with little or no competition. We know where the IGT 5 for 2 VBJ machines are still located, e.g. one machine was at Colusa for 4 short months before an AP burn it out. Cache Creek has single 0 Video Roulette machine to cycle your free play. We know where the 99.5% machines are in Red Hawk. There are still progressive Keno AP’s at an unnamed casino.

Lots of easy money to be made so no need to waste brain cells on games where our ROIC is poor since everyone knows about it. How are we going to get an meaningful edge when teams are camping out on Buffalo Diamond or FarmVille? Btw, you never see 25 on the lowest level in FarmVille; due to competition, someone will play it at 22.

So don’t under-estimate option pricing theory for asymmetrical payoffs. And play bonus machines no one knows about because others haven’t figured them out. Unlike you, I got a guy who cracks bonus slots as a hobby so I get lots of leads. He makes his money selling plays to APs; sometimes it’s a poorly designed promo, other times it’s a 99.7% video poker game by mistake, etc.

So pick your best plays.

EVBandit, you missed a Nor-Cal casino that has single zero roulette (video). You missed a casino in northern Nevada that has 5 for 2 BJ with 5 for 2 after the split if you get a two-card 21 after the split. You missed listing a machine that is very common in Nor-Cal casinos that is a huge moneymaker. Your assumptions about my familiarity with option pricing math (Binomial model and Black Scholes) are way off. But assume whatever you want - I don't give a fuck.
BTW with Scarab, if you are talking about the power of 2nd column scarabs (same fucking thing with Wild Pirates), I already figured it out.
With regard to the Ainsworth, you are referring to the implied volatility and option delta - that is the delta between the current progressive value and the average value of the current value and the max, which you can then plug into an option pricing model (available all over the web - bring your smart phone to the casino). I don't play these, so I don't give a fuck (people camp out until these open up), and so I never bothered to get a smart phone.
Why you are asking about the minimum Farmville numbers for it to be considered a play when you wrote that they're a waste of time is anyone's guess.
01-23-2020, 08:08 AM
mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

Anyway, I'm sure your stats friend along with your team of quants can help you determine when Farmville is a play, so there is no need to ask here about when it is a play. Markov chains, Backpropagation Neural Networks, Black Scholes Options Models, Deep Learning Neural Networks, Simulated Bifurcation Algorithms, Genetic Algorithms. Your team can just run Farmville on its supercomputers - you'll have the numbers pegged exactly in no time !

I knew about Buffalo Diamond before it became popular. I got a buddy of mine from Vegas to give me the numbers before other AP’s or Hustlers knew about the game.

We already knew where the machines were located
https://www.aristocrat-us.com/where-to-play

If you didn’t play in the first few weeks you missed out on the high information asymmetry. Same with FarmVille.

I wrote before I don’t play every game, e.g. the Must Hits because I don’t like banging on the buttons for hours. I specialized on certain bonus machines, especially the ones with design exploits. Any monkey can figure the easy Scarab plays but not the hard ones. Same with Wild Pirates, Fortune Rooster, etc.

There is something about a game that we know that most bonus hustlers miss: take Jurassic Park Trilogy, you get more bonus symbols for the 4th column than the 2nd column but the plays are mostly on the 2nd column. Take Wild Explosion, there’s a 6-cell sweet spot to chase and a simple rule to follow. Take Star Goddess where the perimeters cells expand only to 6 cells. These knowledge of little things reduce our losses and variance. That doesn’t happen on MH’s, Buffalo Diamond, FarmVille, etc.

We knew about Pop ‘N Play when it first landed in Robinson casino in Nice in Lake County in April 2019. We know plays in small casinos and out of the way casinos with little or no competition. We know where the IGT 5 for 2 VBJ machines are still located, e.g. one machine was at Colusa for 4 short months before an AP burn it out. Cache Creek has single 0 Video Roulette machine to cycle your free play. We know where the 99.5% machines are in Red Hawk. There are still progressive Keno AP’s at an unnamed casino.

Lots of easy money to be made so no need to waste brain cells on games where our ROIC is poor since everyone knows about it. How are we going to get an meaningful edge when teams are camping out on Buffalo Diamond or FarmVille? Btw, you never see 25 on the lowest level in FarmVille; due to competition, someone will play it at 22.

So don’t under-estimate option pricing theory for asymmetrical payoffs. And play bonus machines no one knows about because others haven’t figured them out. Unlike you, I got a guy who cracks bonus slots as a hobby so I get lots of leads. He makes his money selling plays to APs; sometimes it’s a poorly designed promo, other times it’s a 99.7% video poker game by mistake, etc.

So pick your best plays.

Looks like you got it going on bigtime. So what are you doing on this site with us yahoo's that dont know anything?
01-23-2020, 08:14 AM
mickeycrimm

Everywhere I have gone for the past 24 years I've been hearing "Yeah, they played good when they first came out. But then they changed it up. Can't hit shit now." Then I play it and it plays the same as it always did. I never had a problem making money with my way of doing things. When they start that shit its just noise to me.
01-23-2020, 08:16 AM
mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

Anyway, I'm sure your stats friend along with your team of quants can help you determine when Farmville is a play, so there is no need to ask here about when it is a play. Markov chains, Backpropagation Neural Networks, Black Scholes Options Models, Deep Learning Neural Networks, Simulated Bifurcation Algorithms, Genetic Algorithms. Your team can just run Farmville on its supercomputers - you'll have the numbers pegged exactly in no time !

I knew about Buffalo Diamond before it became popular. I got a buddy of mine from Vegas to give me the numbers before other AP’s or Hustlers knew about the game.

We already knew where the machines were located
https://www.aristocrat-us.com/where-to-play

If you didn’t play in the first few weeks you missed out on the high information asymmetry. Same with FarmVille.

I wrote before I don’t play every game, e.g. the Must Hits because I don’t like banging on the buttons for hours. I specialized on certain bonus machines, especially the ones with design exploits. Any monkey can figure the easy Scarab plays but not the hard ones. Same with Wild Pirates, Fortune Rooster, etc.

There is something about a game that we know that most bonus hustlers miss: take Jurassic Park Trilogy, you get more bonus symbols for the 4th column than the 2nd column but the plays are mostly on the 2nd column. Take Wild Explosion, there’s a 6-cell sweet spot to chase and a simple rule to follow. Take Star Goddess where the perimeters cells expand only to 6 cells. These knowledge of little things reduce our losses and variance. That doesn’t happen on MH’s, Buffalo Diamond, FarmVille, etc.

We knew about Pop ‘N Play when it first landed in Robinson casino in Nice in Lake County in April 2019. We know plays in small casinos and out of the way casinos with little or no competition. We know where the IGT 5 for 2 VBJ machines are still located, e.g. one machine was at Colusa for 4 short months before an AP burn it out. Cache Creek has single 0 Video Roulette machine to cycle your free play. We know where the 99.5% machines are in Red Hawk. There are still progressive Keno AP’s at an unnamed casino.

Lots of easy money to be made so no need to waste brain cells on games where our ROIC is poor since everyone knows about it. How are we going to get an meaningful edge when teams are camping out on Buffalo Diamond or FarmVille? Btw, you never see 25 on the lowest level in FarmVille; due to competition, someone will play it at 22.

So don’t under-estimate option pricing theory for asymmetrical payoffs. And play bonus machines no one knows about because others haven’t figured them out. Unlike you, I got a guy who cracks bonus slots as a hobby so I get lots of leads. He makes his money selling plays to APs; sometimes it’s a poorly designed promo, other times it’s a 99.7% video poker game by mistake, etc.

So pick your best plays.

I knew about Buffalo Diamond the first day they hit the casinos. A game don't have to get popular for AP's to know about it. Are you banging on any hex 3's?
01-23-2020, 08:20 AM
mickeycrimm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

Anyway, I'm sure your stats friend along with your team of quants can help you determine when Farmville is a play, so there is no need to ask here about when it is a play. Markov chains, Backpropagation Neural Networks, Black Scholes Options Models, Deep Learning Neural Networks, Simulated Bifurcation Algorithms, Genetic Algorithms. Your team can just run Farmville on its supercomputers - you'll have the numbers pegged exactly in no time !

I knew about Buffalo Diamond before it became popular. I got a buddy of mine from Vegas to give me the numbers before other AP’s or Hustlers knew about the game.

We already knew where the machines were located
https://www.aristocrat-us.com/where-to-play

If you didn’t play in the first few weeks you missed out on the high information asymmetry. Same with FarmVille.

I wrote before I don’t play every game, e.g. the Must Hits because I don’t like banging on the buttons for hours. I specialized on certain bonus machines, especially the ones with design exploits. Any monkey can figure the easy Scarab plays but not the hard ones. Same with Wild Pirates, Fortune Rooster, etc.

There is something about a game that we know that most bonus hustlers miss: take Jurassic Park Trilogy, you get more bonus symbols for the 4th column than the 2nd column but the plays are mostly on the 2nd column. Take Wild Explosion, there’s a 6-cell sweet spot to chase and a simple rule to follow. Take Star Goddess where the perimeters cells expand only to 6 cells. These knowledge of little things reduce our losses and variance. That doesn’t happen on MH’s, Buffalo Diamond, FarmVille, etc.

We knew about Pop ‘N Play when it first landed in Robinson casino in Nice in Lake County in April 2019. We know plays in small casinos and out of the way casinos with little or no competition. We know where the IGT 5 for 2 VBJ machines are still located, e.g. one machine was at Colusa for 4 short months before an AP burn it out. Cache Creek has single 0 Video Roulette machine to cycle your free play. We know where the 99.5% machines are in Red Hawk. There are still progressive Keno AP’s at an unnamed casino.

Lots of easy money to be made so no need to waste brain cells on games where our ROIC is poor since everyone knows about it. How are we going to get an meaningful edge when teams are camping out on Buffalo Diamond or FarmVille? Btw, you never see 25 on the lowest level in FarmVille; due to competition, someone will play it at 22.

So don’t under-estimate option pricing theory for asymmetrical payoffs. And play bonus machines no one knows about because others haven’t figured them out. Unlike you, I got a guy who cracks bonus slots as a hobby so I get lots of leads. He makes his money selling plays to APs; sometimes it’s a poorly designed promo, other times it’s a 99.7% video poker game by mistake, etc.

So pick your best plays.

Yeah, sure, option pricing theory or asymmetrical payoffs, but what about hexagonal tri-linear fibrilation processes?
01-23-2020, 09:56 AM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Yeah, sure, option pricing theory or asymmetrical payoffs, but what about hexagonal tri-linear fibrilation processes?

He (EVBandit from WOV) is retired, yet here he is fishing for Farmville numbers. Farmville numbers are a waste of time since everyone knows about Farmville, but here he is asking for Farmville numbers (I thought he has an ace in the hole stats guy who cracks this shit for fun and then gives him the numbers). He mentions the propagation affect of getting dealt a royal on the main hand of 100 play vp spreading to the other 99 hands, but fails to mention the same (negating) propagation effect of getting dealt a brick on the main hand and then having the brick spread its shit to the other 99 hands.
01-23-2020, 10:31 AM
blackhole

I hope all you people who join these sites to learn about AP’ing are reading this thread.

Oh, wait a minute, false alarm. There’s nothing here but just more AP smoke being blown up everyone’s asses about how successful they are.

An AP bragging about scouting out new machines and finds one that could bring in $1,500.00 dollars a month. Then announces he don’t have the time for the work involved, but earlier told how he retired years ago.

What is interesting is the couple of tricks the AP’s use to bait the rest of us gambling assholes into stupidity.

We might be some stupid gambling idiots but trust me Ex-Ap, we’re not buying any of the bullshit your selling.

Can you tell us what your personal portfolio is worth? You don’t have to be accurate. Just come within a million or two Benji's.
01-24-2020, 04:01 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

EVBandit, you missed a Nor-Cal casino that has single zero roulette (video). You missed a casino in northern Nevada that has 5 for 2 BJ with 5 for 2 after the split if you get a two-card 21 after the split. You missed listing a machine that is very common in Nor-Cal casinos that is a huge moneymaker. Your assumptions about my familiarity with option pricing math (Binomial model and Black Scholes) are way off. But assume whatever you want - I don't give a fuck.
BTW with Scarab, if you are talking about the power of 2nd column scarabs (same fucking thing with Wild Pirates), I already figured it out.
With regard to the Ainsworth, you are referring to the implied volatility and option delta - that is the delta between the current progressive value and the average value of the current value and the max, which you can then plug into an option pricing model (available all over the web - bring your smart phone to the casino). I don't play these, so I don't give a fuck (people camp out until these open up), and so I never bothered to get a smart phone.
Why you are asking about the minimum Farmville numbers for it to be considered a play when you wrote that they're a waste of time is anyone's guess.

Here is an option: Suppose the temperature in Reno is X degrees on July 16, 2025. I pay you $Y dollars if the temperate is above X and you pay me $Y if less than X.

Not implying anything. Thanks for proving you are a fraud.
01-24-2020, 04:10 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhole

I hope all you people who join these sites to learn about AP’ing are reading this thread.

Oh, wait a minute, false alarm. There’s nothing here but just more AP smoke being blown up everyone’s asses about how successful they are.

An AP bragging about scouting out new machines and finds one that could bring in $1,500.00 dollars a month. Then announces he don’t have the time for the work involved, but earlier told how he retired years ago.

What is interesting is the couple of tricks the AP’s use to bait the rest of us gambling assholes into stupidity.

We might be some stupid gambling idiots but trust me Ex-Ap, we’re not buying any of the bullshit your selling.

Can you tell us what your personal portfolio is worth? You don’t have to be accurate. Just come within a million or two Benji's.

It’s an *EXTRA* $1,500 for him. It’s MARGINAL money for him. I don’t like banging machines. I don’t play Must Hits for that reason. I am not going to run $10K or $20K coin in for those $1,500 mailers. Half of my mailers are wasted any way.

I retired from card counting, playing carny games, playing bonus machines, sometimes driving 1,000 miles a week. I don’t want to be like Mickey Crimm and have an unexpected heart attack. I’ve been doxxed twice unbeknownst to me.

I made enough money. I am collect promo money for the over 55+ & 50+ each week. I am happy and content.

And I am not selling any Bull Shit. You are free to believe anything you want. And yes, I did win a Post of the Month award on bj21.com so that narrows down your possible candidates.

By the way, I never said I was an AP. You said that not me. I just shared my empirical evidence.
01-24-2020, 04:32 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Looks like you got it going on bigtime. So what are you doing on this site with us yahoo's that dont know anything?

I retired. I said I retired many times.

Mickey, I lost respect for you in this thread when you asked me about the Nevada Regulations when you didn’t know 14 years a casino could change the settings via servers. Seriously?! 14 years meaning you never kept up with the times.

I’ll tell you about “Tracker”. He is the guy going around cracking bonus games, not me. I just play them and share my experiences. Tracker had a buddy that licensed an invention with a gaming company but kept rights to online & server-based games. Turns out the gaming company put the invention on a server so he wanted to renegotiate the contract. It got ugly. So that is how I learned casino’s put games on servers.

If tableplay had read my earlier post in another thread, it said I no longer had access to certain websites so my information is stale. But tableplay likes to play games and cherry pick my information, e.g. take my comments out of context.

Mickey, you are free to agree with me or disagree with me. I don’t care. But, I know for a fact you never player that 103% video poker game in Montana if you really thought it was 97%.
01-24-2020, 05:11 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Yeah, sure, option pricing theory or asymmetrical payoffs, but what about hexagonal tri-linear fibrilation processes?

I’ll tell you another true story. Memory is a bit hazing so I will say summer of 2018. I wasn’t there at the time but I heard it from multiple sources.

This scavenger named Patrick likes to play Must Hits. He drives around in a rental car looking for these plays as far south as LA to Lake County, Rolling Hills, etc. Patrick is a guy who travels a lot and goes to Lincoln City, Idaho, Midwest, etc. He really has no bankroll but knows people. He’s really arrogant and tells everyone he is an AP (he clearly doesn’t know what an AP is). I never met Patrick but my buddy’s tells me he rats people out. Everyone I talked to tells me Patrick hates competition so he intimidates them, besides ratting them out. I know what Patrick looks like and he smokes Newports, been known to change clothes in the handicap bathroom stalls, etc.

The story goes Patrick is at Thunder Valley chasing a $2,500 MH minor with Major at $45K to $50K. As he was chasing the Minor, the Major drops. So Patrick brags to everyone about his $45K+ hit. Ibrahim, the aging baldie scam artist, who was sitting with Patrick at the time got a $500 tip.

(Btw, Patrick was the same guy driving around hitting IGT’s Texas Tea Pinball’s ... those games in Feather Falls, Black Oak, Table Mountain, etc.)

Option math works for asymmetrical payoffs. I have not NOT seen optional math on public message boards EXCEPT in Video Poker maybe 15 years ago.

And I just thought of another story: Then there is the case of Graton Casino with a bank of linked Must Hit’s (WAPs in casino lingo) ... lots of Scavengers jump on when Minor is over $450. There are only so many seats so you have to jump on early. At least once a week (if not more), the Major will drop and some lucky scavenger makes an extra $9K+. I don’t play Mist Hits but this opportunity might change my mind. But I retired.
01-24-2020, 05:34 PM
blackhole

You say you’re not an AP, but your screen name Ex-AP then becomes confusing. From your post: “I never said I was an AP. You said that not me. I just shared my empirical evidence.” You then say you retired from card counting, playing carny games, playing bonus machines and made enough money to retire. One could only assume it was done with AP strategies.

“Alleged” because you’re anonymous with no fact anyone can confirm. I see nothing in your posts that confirms empirical evidence. What makes your claims any different from others? Is the purpose of this thread to impress other anonymous people that read it? Wouldn’t it be better just to keep quiet. Most people can’t take anymore smoke blowing.

For all we know, you’re a casino shill trying to promote people to make the AP effort.
01-24-2020, 05:38 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhole

You say you’re not an AP, but your screen name Ex-AP then becomes confusing. From your post: “I never said I was an AP. You said that not me. I just shared my empirical evidence.” You then say you retired from card counting, playing carny games, playing bonus machines and made enough money to retire.

“Alleged” because you’re anonymous with no fact anyone can confirm. I see nothing in your posts that confirms empirical evidence. What makes your claims any different from others? Is the purpose of this thread to impress other anonymous people that read it? Wouldn’t it be better just to keep quiet. Most people can’t take anymore smoke blowing.

For all we know, you’re a casino shill trying to promote people to make the AP effort.

Suppose my handle was Donald Trump, then are you dumb enough to be believe I am Donald Trump.

Give all of us a break with your trailer trash logic / argument.
01-24-2020, 06:02 PM
blackhole

No problem, and not surprised by your expected response. No different than all other smoke blowing anonymous self-proclaimed AP’s.

Looking forward to more bedtime stories.
01-24-2020, 06:21 PM
Ex-AP

It’s clear to me blackhole is clueless. Suppose a casino sent out a coupon for $100 free play to each customer, then does that mean the casino has a 100% AP customer base? Of course not, and shows why blackhole and others are pathetically clueless about what is an AP.

I know how to count cards in BJ; but that does not make me an AP.

I know how to beat numerous carny games; but that does not make me an AP.

I play bonus slot machines when I have an edge; but that does not make me an AP (but you can call be a scavenger or vulture). In bonus slots, I have to wait and vulture plays that someone leaves for me.

Then comes the issue about “empirical evidence” ... blackhole is just dumb. I gave my results which are considered empirical evidence just like anyone else. Other people have posted their “empirical evidence” ... I wasn’t there when it happen so I can’t verify it but I am going to call (or imply) someone a liar just because I wasn’t there.

I know about the “casino in northern Nevada that has 5 for 2 BJ with 5 for 2 after the split if you get a two-card 21 after the split” or also known as split aces catches face that ought to pay 3:2 BUT PUSHES with dealer’s BJ and tableplay missed my post. How else did I figure this out if I didn’t play the game in northern Nevada. Hmmm

I don’t know who is dumber: blackhole for reading my handle meaning that I am an AP (it’s just a handle folks) or the low IQ tableplay who wrote:

“ He mentions the propagation affect of getting dealt a royal on the main hand of 100 play vp spreading to the other 99 hands, but fails to mention the same (negating) propagation effect of getting dealt a brick on the main hand and then having the brick spread its shit to the other 99 hands.“.

Any guy with normal IQ knows the RF cycle captures the propagation effects of a getting a Royal if there are no royal on the flop. tableplay is a real moron for missing this obvious point. It’s part of the Royal cycle but some people like to say dumb things. For the record, the Royal cycle is bifurcated into dealt and non-dealt hands ... *rolls eyes*

You can always spot the low IQ people like tableplay who uses option math from stock as opposed to the most basic & fundamental part. The temperature problem listed earlier in this thread shows how little tableplay knows the basics of option math. I know for a fact tableplay never used a Markov chain to analyze Scarab and a Markov chain is a very basic and novel way to explain a certain type of option math problem.
01-24-2020, 06:40 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhole

No problem, and not surprised by your expected response. No different than all other smoke blowing anonymous self-proclaimed AP’s.

Looking forward to more bedtime stories.

I never claimed to be an AP. You are just repeating your dumb comment.
01-24-2020, 08:29 PM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Here is an option: Suppose the temperature in Reno is X degrees on July 16, 2025. I pay you $Y dollars if the temperate is above X and you pay me $Y if less than X.

Not implying anything. Thanks for proving you are a fraud.

So if you make a statement about an option it means I am a fraud ? What a non-sequitur.
How come you are fishing for Farmville numbers if you are retired ? If Farmville is a waste of time and everyone knows about it, how come you are asking for Farmville numbers ?
If you have connections to a stat guy that cracks slots for fun, why do you need an answer about Farmville numbers from this forum ?
01-24-2020, 08:33 PM
blackhole

Time for me to take my dumb gambling ass and crawl back under my rock.

Please continue with the stories. I don’t want to be blamed for stepping on all the helpful fairy-tales. After all, it hasn’t been the same here since Kiwlj closed his book of gambling wonders on us.

Don’t spend all those Benji’s in one place.
01-24-2020, 08:53 PM
Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

So if you make a statement about an option it means I am a fraud ? What a non-sequitur.
How come you are fishing for Farmville numbers if you are retired ? If Farmville is a waste of time and everyone knows about it, how come you are asking for Farmville numbers ?

1. Yes, you are a fraud. You are not conversant in the matter, e.g. you do not know what you are saying.

2. You don’t tell what to do or not do. I have my own reasons.

And had you read the post, I wanted people’s “feedback”.
01-24-2020, 09:06 PM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

I know for a fact tableplay never used a Markov chain to analyze Scarab and a Markov chain is a very basic and novel way to explain a certain type of option math problem.

I've also never used a Markov chain to wipe my ass, because you don't need one to do it. Just like you don't need to use Markov chains to make money on Scarabs - there are a specific set of criteria for determining if it is a play or not. You're quite a windbag.
01-24-2020, 09:12 PM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

So if you make a statement about an option it means I am a fraud ? What a non-sequitur.
How come you are fishing for Farmville numbers if you are retired ? If Farmville is a waste of time and everyone knows about it, how come you are asking for Farmville numbers ?

1. Yes, you are a fraud. You are not conversant in the matter, e.g. you do not know what you are saying.

2. You don’t tell what to do or not do. I have my own reasons.

And had you read the post, I wanted people’s “feedback”.

What matter ?
01-25-2020, 12:46 AM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

Originally Posted by tableplay

So if you make a statement about an option it means I am a fraud ? What a non-sequitur.
How come you are fishing for Farmville numbers if you are retired ? If Farmville is a waste of time and everyone knows about it, how come you are asking for Farmville numbers ?

1. Yes, you are a fraud. You are not conversant in the matter, e.g. you do not know what you are saying.

2. You don’t tell what to do or not do. I have my own reasons.

And had you read the post, I wanted people’s “feedback”.

You'd better set Piggybanker straight, he gave you a reply of "25" (for the 2x I assume) when you asked for "feedback" on Farmville. I wonder why you didn't set him straight initially after he gave you a number when that is not what you wanted from your "feedback". It's really odd that Piggybanker (and everyone else including me) interpreted "feedback" to mean you wanted a number. I think the only person who interpreted "feedback" as something else is you.
01-25-2020, 10:25 PM
Ex-AP

I got a text to remind me to post about Jackson.

It has six linked (aka WAPs) $10K Ainsworth’s in the high limit area.

Feel free to jump right in when the Major is over $9,950.

Lots of Ploppies jump in when Minor is over $490.

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