Science and Trump

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

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Originally Posted by redietz

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

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You dishonestly attribute much of what Fauci and Birx have advised as Trump's advice. Your ideology of marxism at any cost exposes you as morally bankrupt. You keep arguing bullshit trying to make it sound legitimate.

Example of blindly following the scientists:

They first told us not to wear masks as they wouldn't help.

Then months later they told us to wear masks because they would help.

Which of their statements is true, wear a mask or not wear a mask? At least one of the above statements was a lie. AND IT'S A MAJOR EXAMPLE THAT THE SCIENTISTS WILL LIE WHEN IT BEHOOVES THEM.

So, Comrade Dietz, blindly follow the lying bastards if you wish. But don't harrass the rest of us for knowing those assholes will lie whenever the feel like it.

While calling Trump a liar you totally ignore the thousands of malicious lies told by your side of the political spectrum. Again, morally inexcusable.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

---

You dishonestly attribute much of what Fauci and Birx have advised as Trump's advice. Your ideology of marxism at any cost exposes you as morally bankrupt. You keep arguing bullshit trying to make it sound legitimate.

Example of blindly following the scientists:

They first told us not to wear masks as they wouldn't help.

Then months later they told us to wear masks because they would help.

Which of their statements is true, wear a mask or not wear a mask? At least one of the above statements was a lie. AND IT'S A MAJOR EXAMPLE THAT THE SCIENTISTS WILL LIE WHEN IT BEHOOVES THEM.

So, Comrade Dietz, blindly follow the lying bastards if you wish. But don't harrass the rest of us for knowing those assholes will lie whenever the feel like it.

While calling Trump a liar you totally ignore the thousands of malicious lies told by your side of the political spectrum. Again, morally inexcusable.

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Lol at scientists being "lying bastards". Amazing the puppet can figure out machine math but be so fucking stupid in general.

The same guy who rails against socialism blindly drinks from the trough when he needs his medical care.

Anyway the same pattern with these types.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

---

You dishonestly attribute much of what Fauci and Birx have advised as Trump's advice. Your ideology of marxism at any cost exposes you as morally bankrupt. You keep arguing bullshit trying to make it sound legitimate.

Example of blindly following the scientists:

They first told us not to wear masks as they wouldn't help.

Then months later they told us to wear masks because they would help.

Which of their statements is true, wear a mask or not wear a mask? At least one of the above statements was a lie. AND IT'S A MAJOR EXAMPLE THAT THE SCIENTISTS WILL LIE WHEN IT BEHOOVES THEM.

So, Comrade Dietz, blindly follow the lying bastards if you wish. But don't harrass the rest of us for knowing those assholes will lie whenever the feel like it.

While calling Trump a liar you totally ignore the thousands of malicious lies told by your side of the political spectrum. Again, morally inexcusable.

---

I'm not sure that you understood Red's post. He's not claiming that scientists are always right, but he is asserting that their positions will change if more facts become available.

When Covid started there was a shortage of masks. I know that you know this. Masks were prioritized for first responders and the medical profession. Elective procedures were postponed partially to allow for time to stock up on protective supplies. Once again, I'm not breaking any news here. It was obvious that an infected person wearing a mask would be safer than one without, but it was also obvious that it was even safer for that infected person to quarantine rather than walking around with a mask. Hence a no mask recommendation.
Evidence of asymptomatic transmission changed all that. Once it was recognized that people were spreading the virus without experiencing any symptoms, universal mask wearing became the recommendation. This does not mean that the scientists were lying at first, it just means that they were wrong. With the flu, it is overwhelmingly symptomatic spreaders. This turned out to be different. They self corrected with the new information. Once again, I think that you already know this.

Red's point was that science is guided by information, but Trump is not. When Trump first announced the masking guidelines, he let us know that he wasn't going to follow them and that we didn't have to either. In the trade we call that a mixed message. He and Pence made a point of not wearing masks, even in locations were they were required. Trump continues to make fun of people wearing masks. His events continue to be be largely maskless.

I wear a mask. You report the same. I do this because mask wearing reduces transmission. If I wanted Trump reelected, I'd be encouraging people to wear masks. I want Alaskan businesses to stay open and am encouraging people to wear masks. Certainly, if my reelection prospects were affected by schools and businesses being open, I'd encourage people to wear masks. If I were a Governor wanting my businesses and schools to open or remain open , I'd by mandating masks.

But that's just me. Obviously there are a lot of folks around with a different approach.

As far as the "thousands of malicious lies" go. I'm really not aware of them. Perhaps instead of just making such a general, non-verifiable claim, you can itemize some of these "lies" so that we can all engage in some fact checking.

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Originally Posted by wasilla

As far as the "thousands of malicious lies" go. I'm really not aware of them. Perhaps instead of just making such a general, non-verifiable claim, you can itemize some of these "lies" so that we can all engage in some fact checking.

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You can't be serious, right. Here's the easy shit

"If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor."
"If you like your healthcare plan you can keep your healthcare plan."
"Insurance rates will drop 30%."

All were flat out lies coming out of Obama/Biden's mouths. They are somem of the biggest lies ever told the American people. When this happened I remember Boz saying his insurance went from $400 a month to $1600 a month under Obamacare.

Adam Schiff "We have conclusive proof Trump colluded with the Russians." For three years we listened everyday to these incessant lies by dems from every corner. All of it was a hoax.

The above is just a start, Wasilla. Just some prime examples. I find it hard to believe you are that ignorant of it. At least you made a comment on it. Comrade Dietz, and Cunt ignore it because they know it's the truth and the end justifies the means of their marxist objectives.

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Originally Posted by wasilla

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

---

You dishonestly attribute much of what Fauci and Birx have advised as Trump's advice. Your ideology of marxism at any cost exposes you as morally bankrupt. You keep arguing bullshit trying to make it sound legitimate.

Example of blindly following the scientists:

They first told us not to wear masks as they wouldn't help.

Then months later they told us to wear masks because they would help.

Which of their statements is true, wear a mask or not wear a mask? At least one of the above statements was a lie. AND IT'S A MAJOR EXAMPLE THAT THE SCIENTISTS WILL LIE WHEN IT BEHOOVES THEM.

So, Comrade Dietz, blindly follow the lying bastards if you wish. But don't harrass the rest of us for knowing those assholes will lie whenever the feel like it.

While calling Trump a liar you totally ignore the thousands of malicious lies told by your side of the political spectrum. Again, morally inexcusable.

---

I'm not sure that you understood Red's post. He's not claiming that scientists are always right, but he is asserting that their positions will change if more facts become available.

When Covid started there was a shortage of masks. I know that you know this. Masks were prioritized for first responders and the medical profession. Elective procedures were postponed partially to allow for time to stock up on protective supplies. Once again, I'm not breaking any news here. It was obvious that an infected person wearing a mask would be safer than one without, but it was also obvious that it was even safer for that infected person to quarantine rather than walking around with a mask. Hence a no mask recommendation.
Evidence of asymptomatic transmission changed all that. Once it was recognized that people were spreading the virus without experiencing any symptoms, universal mask wearing became the recommendation. This does not mean that the scientists were lying at first, it just means that they were wrong. With the flu, it is overwhelmingly symptomatic spreaders. This turned out to be different. They self corrected with the new information. Once again, I think that you already know this.

Red's point was that science is guided by information, but Trump is not. When Trump first announced the masking guidelines, he let us know that he wasn't going to follow them and that we didn't have to either. In the trade we call that a mixed message. He and Pence made a point of not wearing masks, even in locations were they were required. Trump continues to make fun of people wearing masks. His events continue to be be largely maskless.

I wear a mask. You report the same. I do this because mask wearing reduces transmission. If I wanted Trump reelected, I'd be encouraging people to wear masks. I want Alaskan businesses to stay open and am encouraging people to wear masks. Certainly, if my reelection prospects were affected by schools and businesses being open, I'd encourage people to wear masks. If I were a Governor wanting my businesses and schools to open or remain open , I'd by mandating masks.

But that's just me. Obviously there are a lot of folks around with a different approach.

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The problem is when they said don't wear masks they told us they didn't work instead of telling us there was a shortage. They played us for idiots that could be lied to when they felt necessary. If they will lie about the masks they will lie about anything else.

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Originally Posted by redietz

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

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Fauci said there are three vaccines at stage 3 level of testing right now. But dems, including Kamala Harris, are saying they won't take the "Trump vaccine." Dietz, lefties like you keep harping on Trump supporters not following the science. Nimrod....your own side has a big problem with following the science. You don't want the Fauci vaccines because they are on Trump's watch. Than means:

YOU PUT IDEOLOGY OVER SCIENCE!!!!

So GTFO with your "science" bullshit.

Lyin comred with his “accurate forecasts.” I’m not going to waste any time nitpicking through your every post here or read that propoganda blog to point them out. The only problems I have with the epidemiologists is their hypocritical position and a general skepticism towards people in fields that make judgements and forecasts with zero accountability for being wrong, unlike a business owner or gambler.

I get that science is about updating priors as more information becomes available but the no accountability for being “wrong” which apparently scientists can never be, because it’s science, is problematic from a motivation to be accurate standpoint in any field.

The hypocrisy thing, these people want to prevent anyone else from being able to comment at all on anything epidemiology related yet they want to be able to make decisions on public policy despite many having zero experience in public policy (they are not experts in implementing it and are being disrespectful of those who do by thinking they should make the decisions) and the unintended consequences that can come from such a narrow focus.

When it fits Mickey, he tries to use "they" to reference to one big heterogenous group. Like doctors. They're liars ! Lol, like people who spend more time and effort to get into their profession (although well paid) are all at once about lying. Like doctors as a group are somehow lie more. (doh)

Now he said something about Kamala Harris and tries to paint the whole left off what she says.

If you notice, thats much pretty much the typical right-winger puppet thinks. In these reinforcement echo-chambers, it is really the only shit that flies if you aren't going down the QAnon route into absolute nonsense. Just pick one weird person and try to make the general case of them to support your world review. This shit is done countless times in one day. Thats what Andy Ngo is about.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

When it fits Mickey, he tries to use "they" to reference to one big heterogenous group. Like doctors. They're liars ! Lol, like people who spend more time and effort to get into their profession (although well paid) are all at once about lying. Like doctors as a group are somehow lie more. (doh)

Now he said something about Kamala Harris and tries to paint the whole left off what she says.

If you notice, thats much pretty much the typical right-winger puppet thinks. In these reinforcement echo-chambers, it is really the only shit that flies if you aren't going down the QAnon route into absolute nonsense. Just pick one weird person and try to make the general case of them to support your world review. This shit is done countless times in one day. Thats what Andy Ngo is about.

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Incoherent psychobabble.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

When it fits Mickey, he tries to use "they" to reference to one big heterogenous group. Like doctors. They're liars ! Lol, like people who spend more time and effort to get into their profession (although well paid) are all at once about lying. Like doctors as a group are somehow lie more. (doh)

Now he said something about Kamala Harris and tries to paint the whole left off what she says.

If you notice, thats much pretty much the typical right-winger puppet thinks. In these reinforcement echo-chambers, it is really the only shit that flies if you aren't going down the QAnon route into absolute nonsense. Just pick one weird person and try to make the general case of them to support your world review. This shit is done countless times in one day. Thats what Andy Ngo is about.

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Incoherent psychobabble.

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Well try harder and you won't be such total and complete puppet loser.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

When it fits Mickey, he tries to use "they" to reference to one big heterogenous group. Like doctors. They're liars ! Lol, like people who spend more time and effort to get into their profession (although well paid) are all at once about lying. Like doctors as a group are somehow lie more. (doh)

Now he said something about Kamala Harris and tries to paint the whole left off what she says.

If you notice, thats much pretty much the typical right-winger puppet thinks. In these reinforcement echo-chambers, it is really the only shit that flies if you aren't going down the QAnon route into absolute nonsense. Just pick one weird person and try to make the general case of them to support your world review. This shit is done countless times in one day. Thats what Andy Ngo is about.

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Incoherent psychobabble.

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Well try harder and you won't be such total and complete puppet loser.

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Try harder and you won't be Putin's bitch.

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Originally Posted by redietz

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

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Name the two double blind trials that disproved HCQ.

Trump led the largest and fastest medical mobilization in history. And it looks like on Trump’s watch the first vaccine is on a record pace for production.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Trump led the largest and fastest medical mobilization in history. And it looks like on Trump’s watch the first vaccine is on a record pace for production.

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Puppet puppet puppet puppet.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by wasilla

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

You dishonestly attribute much of what Fauci and Birx have advised as Trump's advice. Your ideology of marxism at any cost exposes you as morally bankrupt. You keep arguing bullshit trying to make it sound legitimate.

Example of blindly following the scientists:

They first told us not to wear masks as they wouldn't help.

Then months later they told us to wear masks because they would help.

Which of their statements is true, wear a mask or not wear a mask? At least one of the above statements was a lie. AND IT'S A MAJOR EXAMPLE THAT THE SCIENTISTS WILL LIE WHEN IT BEHOOVES THEM.

So, Comrade Dietz, blindly follow the lying bastards if you wish. But don't harrass the rest of us for knowing those assholes will lie whenever the feel like it.

While calling Trump a liar you totally ignore the thousands of malicious lies told by your side of the political spectrum. Again, morally inexcusable.

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I'm not sure that you understood Red's post. He's not claiming that scientists are always right, but he is asserting that their positions will change if more facts become available.

When Covid started there was a shortage of masks. I know that you know this. Masks were prioritized for first responders and the medical profession. Elective procedures were postponed partially to allow for time to stock up on protective supplies. Once again, I'm not breaking any news here. It was obvious that an infected person wearing a mask would be safer than one without, but it was also obvious that it was even safer for that infected person to quarantine rather than walking around with a mask. Hence a no mask recommendation.
Evidence of asymptomatic transmission changed all that. Once it was recognized that people were spreading the virus without experiencing any symptoms, universal mask wearing became the recommendation. This does not mean that the scientists were lying at first, it just means that they were wrong. With the flu, it is overwhelmingly symptomatic spreaders. This turned out to be different. They self corrected with the new information. Once again, I think that you already know this.

Red's point was that science is guided by information, but Trump is not. When Trump first announced the masking guidelines, he let us know that he wasn't going to follow them and that we didn't have to either. In the trade we call that a mixed message. He and Pence made a point of not wearing masks, even in locations were they were required. Trump continues to make fun of people wearing masks. His events continue to be be largely maskless.

I wear a mask. You report the same. I do this because mask wearing reduces transmission. If I wanted Trump reelected, I'd be encouraging people to wear masks. I want Alaskan businesses to stay open and am encouraging people to wear masks. Certainly, if my reelection prospects were affected by schools and businesses being open, I'd encourage people to wear masks. If I were a Governor wanting my businesses and schools to open or remain open , I'd by mandating masks.

But that's just me. Obviously there are a lot of folks around with a different approach.

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The problem is when they said don't wear masks they told us they didn't work instead of telling us there was a shortage. They played us for idiots that could be lied to when they felt necessary. If they will lie about the masks they will lie about anything else.

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We obviously got our news from different places. MSNBC had experts on saying that there were shortages and PPE should be reserved for first responders and medical personnel. People who were sick should stay home rather than walk around with a mask. They did believe that that virus spread was done largely by people with symptoms and that wearing a mask was mostly useful for not spreading the virus yourself as opposed to protecting yourself from others. I think that everyone has now accepted that non-symptomatic spreaders are significant drivers. I also think that most believe that masks provided a worthwhile level of protection to the wearer. So the people that I was listening to early on were wrong on both accounts. Being wrong is not the same as lying. Now that they have learned this, they are advising universal mask wearing.
This is a novel virus. Experts made best guesses based on what they had learned from other outbreaks. Seasonality is an example. Many thought that it would subside in the summer. Others noted that that the transmutability was so high that the virus would continue to thrive during the summer unless interventions were undertaken. I don't think either side was lying even though one side was wrong.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Trump led the largest and fastest medical mobilization in history. And it looks like on Trump’s watch the first vaccine is on a record pace for production.

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It wouldn't surprise me if there was data supporting the largest mobilization part of this claim. I have no clue how someone could credibly claim that it is the fastest. Trump declared a national emergency early on which does free up resources for a much larger response, but that isn't the same as actually mobilizing. Stockpiled ventilators remained without maintenance, PPE stocks remained depleted, and we didn't have tests to determine how many and where we had infections. Having states bidding against each other and the Federal government is an absurd way to mobilize. Not having tests available is an absurd way to mobilize. Not having a national testing program is an absurd way to mobilize. Having to wait a week for test results so that isolation and contact tracing is ineffective is an absurd way to mobilize. Finally having your administration come up with guidelines for states to reopen and then criticize governors for not reopening before they meet these guidelines is an absurd way to mobilize. Getting rid of your early warning systems is going to mean that the problems are bigger before they are recognized and are going to require a bigger response.

This was not a fast mobilization. I know many of you grasp at travel bans as proof that Trump was on top of virus spread. The virus was already here before the ban. Also the ban was not a ban. People were still coming here from China, just a lot fewer of them. Every one was not against the travel ban as Trump repeatedly claims. Most US airlines had already cancelled flights, several other countries had already banned travel, and several administration members supported the ban.

The Europe ban was more problematic. First, the ban came slower, after the virus was raging in Europe and had arrived on the east coast. Second the announcement was a disaster sending Americans to mistakenly think that they had to book last minute flights and crowding these folks into packed, slow moving immigration lines upon returning.

I do agree that the vaccine development is on a record pace. This is true both here and abroad. I support the Trump administration helping to fund multiple vaccine projects and preparing to manufacture the most promising ones even before they are approved. We may waste some money, but it is a solid plan. Stressing the effort put into this without overpromising the delivery date would be a good Trump reelection message. In the meantime, America's health, business and schools being opened, and Trump's reelection effort would all be improved by universal masking.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

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Name the two double blind trials that disproved HCQ.

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Dietz is to chickenshit to name the two double blind trials. They've probably been debunked.

Red will never name them. They're in the same internet file as his "20-40 years ago I was a super duper, accolades-laced sports betting luminario" claim.

We don't wear masks and never have except where required indoors, and we've been in N. Nevada for a while and recently drove to Asheville NC and back. While Dems stayed hidden. Only fools wear those stupid things where not required and only the weak can't figure all this out. They NEED to be led by the hand by power-hungry AND CONTINUOUSLY FRUSTRATED liberals.

I look forward to mass suicide by the poor libtards when Trump wins again! #NOMORESAFESPACES :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

I am surprised at how many people are confused as to what science is and how it works. It should be no surprise, if you know how science works, that President Trump is at war with it.

First of all, as a side note, the idea that Dr. Fauci's history or personal opinion has much of anything to do with HCQ being shut down as a treatment is just completely off the mark, which should be obvious. Nobody's opinion has much to do with a drug failing a double blind trial. Science is not fascist regime.

Science starts from the base point that whatever it has to say is, to some degree, wrong. Science is a self-correcting method. It starts to some degree wrong, knows it is to some degree wrong, and then seeks to correct it with further information. Double blind studies are designed to take bias, even unconscious bias, out of the equation. They are designed to be apolitical.

When was the last time you heard the president say he was very wrong or wrong at all? And this is true of almost all politicians on most subjects. In our culture, it has become a weakness to admit having been consistently wrong about something for a long period of time. The president is going to inherently be at odds with a system that self corrects because, let's face it, he never self corrects.

And boy, I almost never use the word "never," but with the Trumnpster as Prez, I do not know when he has self corrected.

A system designed to define reality is at odds with a system designed to generate a particular result. That, by the way, is why I have a hard time with lawyers as politicians, also. Lawyers are hired to generate results, not arrive at the most accurate rendition of a historical event.

This is why I find it surprising that some knowledgeable gamblers here have jumped whole hog on the Trumpster bandwagon. Probability is a representation of reality, both historical and to come. The Trumpster has, with regards to Covid-19, tried to shut down in-house forecasts from his team, as I noted in my blog entry on the subject. I would have thought most knowledgeable gamblers would be rooting for accurate forecasts, which is what I have given you over the last six months, as opposed to the completely inaccurate forecasts of the president and his son.

Science is self correcting. The president is not.

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Name the two double blind trials that disproved HCQ.

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Dietz is to chickenshit to name the two double blind trials. They've probably been debunked.

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It's been a week and redietz still won't name the two double blind trials.