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Is this retreat based on any past play? I was denied booking it at Caesars Palace LV and found that odd.
They are saying I don't have the play in Las Vegas market, but isn't that irrelevant for this trip?
(The trip is more than a month away so that isn't the issue.)
I was last Seven Stars in 2018, so perhaps it's changed, but I don't think they're right. Who told you this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpot
It's true that they can deny you a SUITE at Caesars based upon play, but you have the right to book at any Caesars property, last I heard. You might just end up getting a standard room (but make sure it's in Augustus or Octavius Towers, because you should at least get that.)
By the way, the "30 days advance notice required" is mostly bullshit. I've done these trips with much less notice than that. The 30 days is a requirement mainly so the airfare portion can be done. But it doesn't take that long, so you can usually do these with like 2 weeks notice, or less. However, I know that's not your issue here -- just wanted to mention it.
Here is my suggestion:
1) Do NOT count on hosts to do anything for you. Do as much as you can yourself, and only get hosts involved when necessary.
2) You will need a host to book the room and get the $500 folio credit. This can be done either by the host at your home property or one at Caesars. Whichever one denied you, try going to the other. You also might want to try asking for "Casino Services" at Caesars when you call there.
3) Do the travel booking yourself. I'm not sure if they're still going through Passport these days, but if they are, you should deal with Passport directly, and have them just send the e-mail to your host for approval.
Without knowing more, I'm guessing you got denied by a Caesars host who doesn't want to be "associated" with your trip, and have it count against his commission. But anyway, please give me more info.
Thanks for the response. Trust me, I've been trying to book everything on my own. Dealing with them is always a total nightmare.
Here's the long winded story. (my situation is a little unique due to covid).
2019
I live in NJ so the majority of my play is in Atlantic City. I had to work out in Vegas during the months of June and September and I was able get most of my rooms comped (during the week) at Total Reward properties based on my previous play. During the month of June I dropped around 7k in slots. In September I barely played because there was an issue with a reservation that was poorly handled so I decided I wasn't going to reward Total Rewards with my play.
I ended up earning Seven Stars later in the year from my play in Atlantic City.
2020
The pandemic happened. I did not go to any land casinos in Atlantic City or Las Vegas, however I did put in a heavy amount of play online in slots. I used WSOP online (owned by Caesars) which is linked to my total rewards players card. In total for the year I wagered 1.2 million in slots on their site.
Now had there been no pandemic and this play was at land casinos I would have earned the following:
High Seven Stars card (I would have earned roughly 240,000 tier points, would of obv pushed to 250,000 tier points to achieve the next level)
Comped rooms any night of the week
Slot dollars
$2,000 in Comps from play
Seven Star benefits. Plus 250k tier perks
Food comps.
etc.
That same exact play online earned me the following:
only 75,000 tier pts (Sadly online at the time was 16:1 tier credits instead of 5:1 at a land casino.)
I may have received 200 bucs in total kickback
NOTHING ELSE
Apparently playing online holds zero weight. I can not get any rooms and I'm basically being treated as a player who never stepped foot on their property.
Fast Forward to today. I just tried to book my Seven Star Retreat (since they extended benefits to Jan 2022 due to covid) at Caesars Palace Las Vegas but some higher up is blocking my reservations. I found out that apparently Vegas is not happy about me not playing back in Sept 2019. Saying my comps exceeded my play.
(Not sure how they even factored that because I calculated how much it would have cost if I paid for the rooms during both trips in June and September it was no more than 3k in total and I dropped 7k alone in June.)
I spoke with my host (who is oddly located in Vegas when my dominant property is AC) and she was able to book my seven star retreat, but only at Flamingo. Again referring back to my 2019 play.
I understand each market is different but during these current circumstances exceptions need to be made. Players should be rewarded for showing their loyalty during this pandemic instead of being punished.
I feel there should be no reason why I can't book my Seven star retreat at Caesars and my online play should be treated equivalent to land casino play during 2020 since many didn't feel comfortable going to a Casino in person or even playing at all.
I too am surprised that you are not offered a room better than Flamingo for your annual retreat. Usually Retreats give you a priority. Given your action, you might be better off call Ceasars Palace and asking for the host on duty.
FAB
Yes, this looks like bitterness over your long stays in Vegas in 2019 which overall produced relatively little play.
Here is what I would do:
1) Call Caesars directly, and ask either for the host on duty or casino services. Tell them you want to take your annual retreat to Caesars. Don't tell them about being previously denied, just that you'd like to change Flamingo to Caesars.
2) If #1 fails, call your dominant property and ask for the supervisor of all the hosts. Tell them you want an AC-based host because most of your play is in AC. I have a feeling your Vegas-based host is acting in the interests of the Vegas market, and you don't want that as an AC player. Also explain to them honestly what's going on -- that you were led to believe that online slots were just like playing slots in the casino, and you put in heavy action. Make sure they know you were shocked by the inability to get a standard room at Caesars for your retreat, and you feel lied to, and are considering moving your action elsewhere. Be polite but firm about it. See if they can help you.
BTW I looked up the terms and conditions for this, and it did have two terms which work against you:
"Some restrictions may apply for transportation and hotel accommodations. Please reach out to your Casino Executive for details."
"Blackout dates apply and may vary by property."
So they can hide behind this, but you still have some leverage because you put in so much action online, plus you are a slots player, which they love to see. They're treating you like a video poker player who grinds the very best machines to barely achieve Seven Stars, and then sucks the benefits for 2 years. That's not you at all, even if you didn't play much in the summer 2019 stays.
I'm going to do your 2nd suggestion for sure. Thanks
I've called Las Vegas several times and asked to talk to a host on duty. Apparently they started something new because they can only transfer you to your assigned host. (It was never like that before)
If I call VIP Services they can book the Retreat at Caesars but I found out the Director of Casino Marketing is blocking or going in later and cancelling any of my unapproved reservations made in Las Vegas. I was able to get transferred to his voicemail and left message but he never bothered to call back.
Do you happen to know the title above Director of Casino Marketing? I need to go above him to get this resolved most likely.
Also my fear is if I go through another host to book it, This Director will just go in and cancel it again or cancel my trip entirely.
I am learning that when they look up my play NONE of my online play shows up at all. Its considered a separate market. So yeah they are looking at my last play and see nothing. Just feel like anyone with a brain would question where all my tiers points came from in 2020, Take this pandemic into consideration, and adjust accordingly.
I really need to talk to someone in Vegas in person. I'm just not able to talk to the right people over the phone. I am waiting for an AC host to call me back. I plan on sending him a long winded email in hopes he can forward it to someone helpful or go to AC in person.
It's difficult to get to the right people over the phone at all of these Caesars-owned casinos.
I would call the Caesars operator and ask how to reach the office of the manager of the entire casino there. You may not reach the dude directly, but at least you'll probably talk to a gatekeeper, whom you can explain your issue to. Try to call between 9am and 6pm, weekdays, Las Vegas time.
Whether your online play shows up in the system is irrelevant. That's their problem. You just need someone with common sense to listen to you and understand it. Keep in mind that the Vegas market is likely very suspicious of AC people, because AC is notorious for a large number of Seven Stars leeches. There are some people in your market who abused the system so heavily that they gave up their apartments, got a Seven Stars "roommate", and manipulated it to where they stayed the entire year at Caesars AC without playing! This actually was the primary cause of the removal of the Seven Stars auto-comp-4-nights room benefit. The removal of that benefit is the reason I no longer bother earning Seven Stars, by the way, even though I never abused it!
Anyway, I'm guessing Caesars Vegas properties felt they got burned over and over by non-playing AC Seven Stars, who just sucked up the $500 folio credit, didn't play, and they were left holding the bag. Now, I can't feel sorry for them -- that's what they give up by having a national, guaranteed benefit program. But some cheap-ass marketing guy in Vegas is apparently going overboard trying to fight this.
I'm pretty convinced that if you talk to someone sensible, you'll prevail here.
I suggested reaching someone in power in AC, because they're more likely to be sympathetic to you, whereas in Vegas they just see you as another out of state leech. I think it is highly likely that an influential person in AC could overrule this.
I spoke with a host from AC today. He seemed very understanding. Told me to shoot him an email and he would forward it to his supervisor. So we shall see...
I've been a long time high diamond player and each year Caesars gets worse and worse. Def not worth the headache and hassle jumping through hoops to get benefits you earned.
I'm not a high level player so I am not qualified for these offers, but I am an investigator and since the topic interests me I made some phone calls.
Actual bookings for Caesars Palace are limited to high tier players -- period.
Your best chance of getting into Caesars Palace is with your home property host. But for annual retreats and annual events such as the Gift Wrapups, I was told that strict capacity controls are in place.
Since everyone wants to stay at Caesars Palace and there are so many Seven Stars nationwide, only high level Seven Stars get a room.
This came from several Caesars insider's.
Interesting....Good to know. Thanks
How'd it go Jackpot? Any update?
Playing the waiting game??
I spoke with an AC host who seemed to get the situation. He told me to send him a detailed email and he would forward it to his supervisor. That was over a week ago but have not heard anything. Guess they don't care.
It could be as the Governor ups the capacity (80% as of May 1) more rooms will be free to occupy. Currently, they are at 50% and that is the working number for future reservations. I would not be surprised if ElDiablo has a formula that allots so many comped rooms for 7 Stars and so many paid reservations and then reduce by 50 %.
They don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpot
You'll need to follow up, or you will be waiting until your 2022 retreat to hear back.
He will likely be waiting until then even if he does follow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffThey don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpot
You'll need to follow up, or you will be waiting until your 2022 retreat to hear back.
Ha prob. I've been following up and sending out emails to other departments/people. Crickets... About to be done with CET.
Do any properties in LV do tier or play match?
Some good news. I stumbled upon an email address to a higher up and was reached out to a day later. The person I spoke with claimed they were completely unaware that online play did not mesh with live play. They immediately changed my reservation to Caesars and will be looking into this further.
Good to hear you got this fixed. I knew it was a matter of reaching the right person. Your request was extremely reasonable, and it was very obnoxious that the local Vegas market was trying to selfishly shut you out, ignoring both your loyalty and the good of the company as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpot
Unfortunately, while there are some status matches (MGM does it on and off, though not to their top tier), you won't get any significant offers from "matching" until you demonstrate that your play is sufficient to justify it. This is because tier cards are relatively easy to achieve with minimal theoretical loss, via low -EV video poker.
Anyway, this is all part of Caesars dysfunction. Their departments have no synergy, and all act as if they're separate companies. Now it's happening with markets, too, which is why you'll get the red carpet rolled out for you in a market where you play more, and you'll get treated like dogshit in one where you play little, and nobody is apparently smart enough to say, "We're all the same company, treat this customer well across the board!"
The Seven Stars rank was kinda meant to do that, but as you've seen, they're starting to dismiss that and you're treated poorly by local management who feels you're just sucking their resources.
Honestly they need to audit all of this and fix it. It seems that there's too much pressure on local markets to perform, yet at the same time, they're expected to lose money on customers who mainly play in other markets, so this doesn't really mesh. Either you take the long, company-wide view of customers, or you should just do away with cross-market status.
Exactly to everything you said.
The person I spoke with claimed they were going to make changes, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Despite what is being said about Caesars having problems with its rewards program the reality is the company does not have to cater to its "players."
Demand for rooms is too strong.
https://www.ktnv.com/news/coronaviru...k-in-a-big-way
100% of 50% capacity.... wait till Resorts, Palms and Virgin fully go on line. 7 Stars will start looking elsewhere and in Vegas there are plenty of places. This is the lesson ElDiablo has not learned yet in the Vegas market. I know several 7 Stars who are at 0 TC because of the new management.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewG
I read on another board, a Seven Star was at CP for the Seven Star Retreat and was booked into the Forum Towers. He asked for a upgrade to Augustus and was denied, but they did say for $99 he could get the room. Now I understand if CP is sold out and every Seven Star has a room, but if you are charging $99 for the upgrade, that means you have rooms available for upgrades. The Carano Family has turned CET to shit.
I would argue it’s no different than how the company has been run since Loveman. For some reason certain Seven Star members feel they are more valuable than other customers. Other than the basic “guaranteed” benefits, it still comes down to ADT. And we both know in this case odds are this customer has a low ADT and isn’t considered a “valuable” customer to them. Dan has written about this many times over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfromla
My guess is this customer got exactly the room their play qualities them for.
Agree…but based on my experiences in LV and speaking with others, the The Carano Family Circus has become a real Shit Show for CET.Quote:
Originally Posted by The BozI would argue it’s no different than how the company has been run since Loveman. For some reason certain Seven Star members feel they are more valuable than other customers. Other than the basic “guaranteed” benefits, it still comes down to ADT. And we both know in this case odds are this customer has a low ADT and isn’t considered a “valuable” customer to them. Dan has written about this many times over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfromla
My guess is this customer got exactly the room their play qualities them for.
That I agree with, the bean counters are gambling people are so addicted to their status they will keep coming regardless of how they are treated. That said, they seem to be keeping FP and food offers consistent for those they believe are still running good coin through.
You can always get a good laugh and see why they believe this by reading many of the posts on the Caesars players Facebook page. It actually makes you understand why they keep taking benefits away and believe people will keep showing up. New CZR suckers born everyday.
The Facebook posters (posers) are the biggest idiots of all. I guess it will make up for the number of seven stars and Diamonds who will zero out on Jan. 1, 2022. The CEO at Boyd coined a term that fits what’s happening…”the unrated player” or the clientele from South Central. Any rate, off for 8 days to Vegas today.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
Couldn't disagree more. Caesar's has become a complete disaster. I have been 7 stars for years. There were always issue's but they were always taken care of. Now, I can't even get a response back.
Examples- Starting Sept. 1st all 7 star members will receive a $150 per month free bet on online sportsbook. I have still not received any of them. I call, live chat, email, went to rewards desk, no one know anything, each dept. tells me I need to speak to the other, eventually some say they all "escalate" to right department but after 3 months, nothing.
Showed up for a promotion $350 gift card. The kiosk was not working. Took picture and following day I went to rewards desk, they said they couldn't prove I was at casino. Emailed customer relations and they gave me the run around until finally ceasing contact.
When they merged cards back in April they messed up my card along with a lot of others. I stopped receiving offers, my room calendar rates went from every night comped to paying. Turns out they merged my card with an account that never existed. Only took 2 months and countless hours of my life to fix.
I can go on. you all get the point. I'm sure there are a lot of you with similar stories. Caesar's is the WORST. I have since stopped all play. Already have 200k tier credits so I'll be 7 stars next year. Will use the perks but they will not receive any action form me again. And btw, I informed customer support of my intention to not play again, they didn't care. Customer service and their motto to always make it right for the player is BS.
The Wynn has been Amazing, took my business there.
Thanks for sharing this, at the same time sorry to hear what Caesars did to you. All they offer me is just a free hotel stay (3-4 days) with no resort fees, nothing more and no backend comps for showing a loss greater than what the room rates were.Quote:
Originally Posted by executiveA
My relationship with Caesars is done as well. Although I am a moderate roller to MGM/Caesars, I am small potatoes to Wynn, I will try them anyways next time since Cosmopolitan is being taken over by MGM.
Here’s how ElDiablo will spin it next year. They will claim that they have more Diamonds and Seven Stars than ever before. How? They will add in all the transfer players that came from Eldoraldo casinos. Meanwhile the old Total Reward players are dropping like flies.
Total Rewards and CET has been falling apart for years, certain of us have been asking WTF people are doing still giving them their business, yet a particular few here continued to stick up for them when they were fully aware it was only those who were completely addicted to Caesar's slot club cards who wasted their time with such a sucker-oriented organization.
That beat-down took a long time, but it's nice to see that eventually everybody learns.
The TR program had been going downhill for years. Eldo has just about killed it. I used to have emails and such with marketing VP Holdren. My wife did trip with Horseshoe GM to Vegas 2015 or 2016. They had dinner with the execs then. These 7* players were told by Caesars Execs they were getting out gambling as their main business, and going to conventions and hotels.
It certainly shows today. Also it almost appears the TR program is about getting rid of long term players. We have been 7* or Diam every year since at least 2008. That is EACH of us. We could see the end coming starting 2018. It almost insane some of their actions. After making Diam Plus in July of covid year 2020. They shut off all offers and emails about anything. When I inquired, I never got a reasonable answer.
My wife could not play until after Labor day. Made Diam Plus in 2 visits to a Caesar property, lost $8000. They reduced her comps, offers by December.
Numerous old time 7* and Diam friends are giving up on Caesars. Biggest complaints are no Lounges, and can't get rooms. They give the rooms to new players, with new cards !
We are moving on.
My wife and I have been Diamond for ten plus years. Two years ago, I could visit the Laurel Lounge (not everbody's favorite, but I could lay low, have some drinks, watch the game, have a bite), see a monthly show and go to the spa daily. Today, all gone. Tom Reeg, CEO of Eldiablo ad the Carano Family Circus have eliminated the Total Rewards player for ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasreb
Mind you that TR was a massive extensive data driven program. Reeg has pissed that away.
And the Convention Crowd, Reeg really thinks the they would rather stay at Harrahs, than Wynn, V/P, or Resorts when the company credit card is paying for it. Totally clueless. Caesars properties are third tier properties (including Caesars). And I've stayed at Caesars, V/P and Wynn this year.
Bottom line is Eldiablo has been able to treat it's players like shit, because, before the merger, their clientele was one casino town degenerate gamblers. Now they brought this mindset to Vegas.
I've moved....
Caesars has been a wasteland for a few years now and has lost it's former appeal ( pre 2017). Wonder where are 100% Caesars reporter, Fabismonte is, and his take on the current state, from his vast Caesars expertise.
This is what many of us liked to do. Have a drink, a bite of food, and visit with old friends (players). Now that is gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfromlaMy wife and I have been Diamond for ten plus years. Two years ago, I could visit the Laurel Lounge (not everbody's favorite, but I could lay low, have some drinks, watch the game, have a bite), see a monthly show and go to the spa daily. Today, all gone. Tom Reeg, CEO of Eldiablo ad the Carano Family Circus have eliminated the Total Rewards player for ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasreb
Mind you that TR was a massive extensive data driven program. Reeg has pissed that away.
And the Convention Crowd, Reeg really thinks the they would rather stay at Harrahs, than Wynn, V/P, or Resorts when the company credit card is paying for it. Totally clueless. Caesars properties are third tier properties (including Caesars). And I've stayed at Caesars, V/P and Wynn this year.
Bottom line is Eldiablo has been able to treat it's players like shit, because, before the merger, their clientele was one casino town degenerate gamblers. Now they brought this mindset to Vegas.
I've moved....
Speaking of Eldiablo. Back when it was just Carano family. It was not too bad. I had a top card for a few years.
I wonder how the hell slot machine players (not video poker) could take the beatings at CZR properties. Their machines are all 85%. You run a 50K wager, that's a 7.5K average loss. What kind of comp will a 50K wager get you?Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasrebThis is what many of us liked to do. Have a drink, a bite of food, and visit with old friends (players). Now that is gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfromlaMy wife and I have been Diamond for ten plus years. Two years ago, I could visit the Laurel Lounge (not everbody's favorite, but I could lay low, have some drinks, watch the game, have a bite), see a monthly show and go to the spa daily. Today, all gone. Tom Reeg, CEO of Eldiablo ad the Carano Family Circus have eliminated the Total Rewards player for ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasreb
Mind you that TR was a massive extensive data driven program. Reeg has pissed that away.
And the Convention Crowd, Reeg really thinks the they would rather stay at Harrahs, than Wynn, V/P, or Resorts when the company credit card is paying for it. Totally clueless. Caesars properties are third tier properties (including Caesars). And I've stayed at Caesars, V/P and Wynn this year.
Bottom line is Eldiablo has been able to treat it's players like shit, because, before the merger, their clientele was one casino town degenerate gamblers. Now they brought this mindset to Vegas.
I've moved....
Speaking of Eldiablo. Back when it was just Carano family. It was not too bad. I had a top card for a few years.
Not much. I learned about their 85% payback the hard way when i first started playing. Went to their properties and tried to take bigger plays at numbers that I was doing great on at other places and got torn a new one a couple of times before I learned.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmI wonder how the hell slot machine players (not video poker) could take the beatings at CZR properties. Their machines are all 85%. You run a 50K wager, that's a 7.5K average loss. What kind of comp will a 50K wager get you?Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasrebThis is what many of us liked to do. Have a drink, a bite of food, and visit with old friends (players). Now that is gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfromla
Speaking of Eldiablo. Back when it was just Carano family. It was not too bad. I had a top card for a few years.
Now I see a lot of others doing the same thing, they will go to CZR properties and play the exact same numbers they play everywhere else only to earn a one way ticket to Ruintanusvillle. .
So not only do you have to deal with the horrible payback, but its much harder to find playable numbers because most people are playing numbers that only work for higher payback shops and stuff rarely gets to a number that would be profitable at 85%.
Very difficult to make a decent living, when certain stores( Caesars) are full of 85% specials.
When you consider that your drawdown before you hit your target is going to be that much larger in a general sense, it really puts it in perspective. After being in LV for awhile I realized it really isn't worth messing with machines unless you're bored or trying to get comps.
Also the asian guy that is in each strip casino and camps out anytime you manage to get a signficant play. Or the guys driving around on scooters. The food that is good and overpriced is understaffed - the food that is bad and overpriced is only what is available.
I got free parking extended for a year though !
Here’s another dumb mistake I made with CZRs that will maybe help someone else.
I was playing their point multiplier promos without realizing that some are for rewards credits and some are tier credits only.
I’m like, where are my rewards credits from all that play I put in? Before rereading the offers and figuring out they distinguish between reward credit multipliers & tier credit multipliers.
I use the Progressive Pay machines called 15's by slot AP's as a barometer of how loose or tight a casinos machines were. There a pic of the game and some par sheet information below.
The free spin meters increase whenever a certain amount of spins are made without those free games being awarded. You can see the game has 7 different paybacks from 85% to 96%. The payback of the game is dictated by how many spins it takes to increase the free spin meters.
In the chart take a look at the 96% game. The 35/75/450 means the red meter increases every 35 spins, the green every 75, and the blue every 450 spins. And you can see how many spins it takes to increase meters on every payback listed.
Notice that the number of spins to flip the first meter is different in each payback level. It can take anywhere from 35 spins to 110 spins depending on what payback the machine is set on.
This is an easy way to determine the payback of a machine in any casino. All you have to do is countdown the numbers of spins to flip the red meter to determine the payback of the game because each payback level has a different number of spins to flip the meter.
You don't have to make the spins yourself. You can countdown a ploppie. You first have to wait for the meter to flip then start counting. If it takes 45 spins to flip its the 91% game. If it takes 48 spins to flip its the 89% game, etc.
In the case of the worst payback, 85%, it takes 110 spins to flip the meter. But if you are counting a machine down and it goes over 75 spins you know you are dealing with an 85% game.
In my neck of the woods the games are either 91% or 93%, some pretty good payback. New Mexico is 89%.
For the CZR properties I never found one above 85%. And hex players have told me the hexes on CZR properties are 85%.
As said, the 15's give me an idea of the overall payback of a casinos machines.