Moses Las Vegas Plan

Talkling about someone on a forum they can not respond, much less starting a thread is in bad taste. But this thread is not done with malice, but rather a warning. Anyone who has been reading Moses "Golden oldie moving to Las Vegas" thread at WoV, knows Moses claims to be in the process of moving to Las Vegas as opportunities in Reno have dried up according to him.

Today Moses laid out his game plan and it is a disaster. Ripe for failure.

1) moses is a single deck player, so here in Vegas he intends to focus on double deck. Regular card counters in Vegas refer to the double deck games are "counter traps". They are the games most 'hawked' and watched at most casinos. The games to avoid. I play double deck, but very sparingly. it makes up roughly 20% of my play.

2) Moses only wants to play $50 and $100 minimum tables. The very tables that are most scrutinized and 'hawked' by casino personnel.

3) Moses has identified 10 casino that meet his criteria, 9 of which are on the strip. 10 casinos is not a very big rotation, even bigger properties and playing multiple shifts. You will start seeing the same dealers and pit regularly, which means you are missing out on the biggest advantage of Las Vegas: quantity and spreading your play around.

4) Strip properties, especially at the higher limits are just the type of place a player should avoid to acheive any kind of longevity. Don't we already have a pro player, the so called GOAT, who regularly regales us with his heat related issue of playing exclusively strip properties.

Moses, you have managed to come up with a list of everything not to do as your game plan. I wish you well, but just want that on record, because I suspect when you don't succeed, you will come back at me. Well you aren't doing what I am doing, so lay nothing on me! Again, best of luck.

Oh, I forgot.

5) spreading to 2 hands. from the day I moved to Vegas I have found Vegas to be much more sensative to this than other places...especially at double deck. They are rather blatant about their suspicions, as I have had a number of pit folks start looking through the discard rack immediately as I spread to two hands to see if there were many small cards. I guess a not so subtle warning. :rolleyes: Maybe other players experiences differ.

unbelievable. Ever since Mission's terribly misplaced thread yesterday, every thread created in the Las Vegas Subforum has been Las Vegas related!!!:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by mcap

unbelievable. Ever since Mission's terribly misplaced thread yesterday, every thread created in the Las Vegas Subforum has been Las Vegas related!!!:D:D:D

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I dont know that I have ever made a thread on this forum? But, if I do, I will make sure to consult with you first regarding its proper placement.

Mcap has already made two posts substantially just to complain about my errantly placed thread...which is 2x as many posts in the last several weeks as I have made errantly placed threads.

EDIT TO BE CLEAR: I'm not including the post he made IN said errantly placed thread. One would think that would have been sufficient to make his point, but I guess not.

I enjoy how much threads drift on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Mcap has already made two posts substantially just to complain about my errantly placed thread...which is 2x as many posts in the last several weeks as I have made errantly placed threads.

EDIT TO BE CLEAR: I'm not including the post he made IN said errantly placed thread. One would think that would have been sufficient to make his point, but I guess not.

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Just another routine walk in the park for Mr mcap. Anybody who doesn't recognise this same tired shtick by now, has been asleep for a VERY LOOOONG time !

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by mcap

unbelievable. Ever since Mission's terribly misplaced thread yesterday, every thread created in the Las Vegas Subforum has been Las Vegas related!!!:D:D:D

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I dont know that I have ever made a thread on this forum? But, if I do, I will make sure to consult with you first regarding its proper placement.

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^^^^^^^^^

Moses, you ended a little story with the following quote today: "Norm's products are the keys to the gym."

Lately you have been spreading mis-information that 6 deck games can't be beat (in your opinion). You also don't beleive me or half dozen or so players that have responded in your thread at WoV, that tell you they DO beat 6 deck games. It is your right to beleive whatever you like.

So my question is have you run a sim? You are a beleiver in Norm's software and simulations. Run a little sim, for a 6 deck game, standard rules, with a modest 1-12 spread maxing out at TC +4 and tell us what the results are?

Then play around further. Get rid of some of the (worst of) negative counts (wong outs and bathroom breaks) and see how that improves results? Try a 1-16 spread and see how that works.

At this point I would hope you stop this silly nonsense that 6 deck games can't be beat. Then you can move on to the second part of your equation, which is whether it is worth your time and effort.

Moses, this cross forum discussion really doesn't make much sense, so this will probably be my last post.

I would have thought running a sim to see if the 6 deck game was beatable or not, would be your first step not your last. If the sim shows the game not beatable, or even not beatable to your satisfaction, meaning the kind of money you want to make, no further steps need be taken in your consideration. But you do it your way.

If you remember, several times I suggested you should consider learning how to beat 6 decks, because I figured at some point the single deck game would disappear. Reno is really the last place, other than a couple very small, very low limt towns. Of course I had no idea this kind of covid situation would play a part and speed up that change.

Now, should you decide to play Vegas at some point, you will need to play and learn to beat 6 deck games. A player can not survive Vegas playing only double deck, at least as a full time income. As previously mentioned, DD are a counter trap at many locations and there just aren't enough.

Now should you ever decide to play 6 deck, you are going to have to adjust to 2 things that will be very different. One is that you can not make the kind of money you are hoping to make ($200k). As I and several other players that play Vegas have told you, the range is $80-$100k. That is what you can make playing the limits that are tolerated. You can't double it by doubling stakes. The whole thing falls apart because that level is not tolerated. You will get several months at best. And you can't double it by simply playing twice as much. That will result in over-exposure and similarly a short run. It is what it is...accept it or not.

The second thing that will be very different for you is variance. I have held off on mentioning this because this will be very difficult for you. While your play and mine have been very different, I have learned some things from you about single deck play that I didn't know or didn't fully understand. Like single deck play is the one remaining situation where what count you play can make a different. A higher or specialty count can lower variance and that seems to be something you have specialized in. It doesn't work that way with 6 decks. What count you play matters much less and speciality counts add almost nothing. It is a simple more high cards = good, more low cards = bad. And with that comes much more variance and swings than you are used to. You would have to learn to deal and accept that because you cannot change it, although I expect you will try.

Sincerely good luck to you whatever you decide.

Fuck is this?

What do we share, KewlJ? We've got 2nd period Spanish and 7th period Biology together, right?

Okay, Moses and I both have lunch fifth period, so I can get your note to him in our Spanish class, he has plenty of time to respond at lunch and then I can take his response to you in Biology.

Tomorrow we will rinse and repeat.

Shit. Tomorrow is not a school day. Are you two going to meet up at the park? Do you guys think we can make it after eleven? My favorite cartoon comes on at ten.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Fuck is this?

What do we share, KewlJ? We've got 2nd period Spanish and 7th period Biology together, right?

Okay, Moses and I both have lunch fifth period, so I can get your note to him in our Spanish class, he has plenty of time to respond at lunch and then I can take his response to you in Biology.

Tomorrow we will rinse and repeat.

Shit. Tomorrow is not a school day. Are you two going to meet up at the park? Do you guys think we can make it after eleven? My favorite cartoon comes on at ten.

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Look goofball <- :D There has vnever been any benefit to me trying to offer some thoughts that help newer players, or in this case an experienced player, who may be changing his situation, but I like to do so in honor of those that helped me along the way. In this case, Moses can't particpate here and I can't at WoV so it is what it is. get over it! :p

If only those were other forums in the world . . .

I do find this mildly entertaining though.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

so I can get your note to him in our Spanish class,

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So here smart ass, pass him this note. :D

I most definitely never said not to play $50 minimum tables. I play $50 minimum tables if they are on the main floor. I even play $100 tables on a busy Saturday night or holiday weekend/big event, if they are on the main floor and I can play in the shadow of a bigger bettor. I may have said something along the lines of avoiding high limit areas where the ratio of pit folks to tables is 3-1 and games are hawked.

I also never said don't play the strip. I currently have several strip locations in my primary rotation. I prefer not to play the strip because it is crowded with parking issues, that bog down my day, but I play the strip if there is a good opportunity. I probably have said something like people need to get off the strip and visit some of the local places. Too many people think Las vegas is only the strip (and downtown). I also may or may not have said Zenking shouldn't play the strip. :rolleyes: He seems very unhappy and uncomfortable playing the strip, and then rushes back to try to prove something....what I have no idea.

So you can pass that note along at recess (unless you are busy airing it out :D) becasue I don't like all this "a successful 10 year player said not to do this or that", when they are things I do myself. And by the way, anything I say is a suggestion based on my experiences. I never am telling anyone what they should do. Everyone needs to decide these things for themselves.

KJ, I have a question about your BJ play.

As part of avoiding heat, how often do you deliberately make the "wrong play" when the count is in your favor?

Follow up: If / when you make the "wrong play," do you bet your basic amount or a higher amount, e.g. the amount you'd bet were the count in your favor and you wanted to exploit it?

Seems to me (a non-BJ player) that making the "wrong play" during a favorable count would likely cause a hawker to conclude you're not a threat, but hey, what the hell do I know?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Fuck is this?

What do we share, KewlJ? We've got 2nd period Spanish and 7th period Biology together, right?

Okay, Moses and I both have lunch fifth period, so I can get your note to him in our Spanish class, he has plenty of time to respond at lunch and then I can take his response to you in Biology.

Tomorrow we will rinse and repeat.

Shit. Tomorrow is not a school day. Are you two going to meet up at the park? Do you guys think we can make it after eleven? My favorite cartoon comes on at ten.

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Look goofball <- :D There has vnever been any benefit to me trying to offer some thoughts that help newer players, or in this case an experienced player, who may be changing his situation, but I like to do so in honor of those that helped me along the way. In this case, Moses can't particpate here and I can't at WoV so it is what it is. get over it! :p

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WRONG Druff allowed Moses back a few months ago and HE refused to come back for some apparent reason. His issue for not wanting to be reinstated, he had the green light. Todd would allow most people back, unless they were complete fuckups/lost causes.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

KJ, I have a question about your BJ play.

As part of avoiding heat, how often do you deliberately make the "wrong play" when the count is in your favor?

Follow up: If / when you make the "wrong play," do you bet your basic amount or a higher amount, e.g. the amount you'd bet were the count in your favor and you wanted to exploit it?

Seems to me (a non-BJ player) that making the "wrong play" during a favorable count would likely cause a hawker to conclude you're not a threat, but hey, what the hell do I know?

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MisterV, what you are suggesting are know as cover plays, the wrong play for cover. In general, because card counters play to such a slim advantage, you want to keep cover plays to a minimum and only when your minimum or small wagers is out. So to that, I play something known as card counters basic strategy. CCBS has you play certain hands the wrong way at minimum bet but when you play them that same way later at a higher count you are playing the correct or optimal way.

For example 16 vs 10. Basic starategy says to hit. But the at anything above a zero count the proper play is to stand. So CCBS says to stand always, that way when the count is zero or negative and your minimum bet is out, you are playing slightly incorrect at a minimal cost, but all other times when larger bets are out you are playing optimally, and you never have to change the way you play the hand, which is a tell of a card counter.

Some of the other CCBS plays are:
always stand on 12 vs 3, when normal basic strategy says to hit, and stand at a true count of 2 or higher.
always double 11 vs A, when normal basic strategy is just hit and double at higher count.
always double 9 vs 2 when normal basic strategy is hit and double at TC +2 or higher.
always double 8 vs 6 when normal basic strategy is hit and double at TC +2 or higher.
always double A8 vs 5 or 6, when normal basic straty is stand and double at TC +2 or higher.
always double 9 vs 2 when normal basic strategy is hit and double TC +2 or more.

And insurance is on the CCBS list, with CCBS saying to always insure, when the normal basic strategy is not to insure and insure at TC +3 or more. This one is a little more costly than the others, so I have fudged a little on it, insuring some hands at counts of 0, 1, 2 and all hands at counts of 3 or more. We will call that the KJ variation of CCBS, LOL

There are a few others involving soft doubles and splits, that are less important because they occur pretty infrequently. But the theory is you are always playing these hands the same way avoiding the tell of index play and only playing them incorrectly when you minimum or smaller wagers are out making the cost very minimum.

Some of this is probably overkill because at least half pit folks don't even know regular basic strategy, so they don't know when you are playing wrong or right anyway and of those that do know regular basic strategy the two big tells are 16 vs 10 and surrender. These are the hands it is easy to spot when a player plays them differently some times than other times because they occur so frequently. 16 vs 10 is the single most frequent hand I believe.

Thanks for the indepth explanation, KJ.

KJ, I can see why someone would read your OP point #2 as stay away from $50 tables and your point #4 as stay away from the strip.

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Originally Posted by unJon

KJ, I can see why someone would read your OP point #2 as stay away from $50 tables and your point #4 as stay away from the strip.

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Fair enough, unJon. Basically I just try to avoid the games that are closely monitored. That would be the high limit room. The same $50 minimum game in the HLR and on the floor have different levels that they are monitored, just by the number of pit folks. Now by the same token, a $50 min on the floor, if it is the only $50 min game and everything else is $25 and less, would be something I would avoid. Some of this is just common sense.

Since you are reading and participating in both threads, one of the things I find most odd is Moses's insistance that he only wants to play $50 minimum games. See I would prefer $25 minimum even if I were going to use say a $50-$400 spread. That way you have the option to spread both ways. Meaning say the count goes negative towards the end of a shoe, to the point that normally would be an exit trigger, you have the option of dropping down and playing $25 for those last few hands just to get to the shuffle and a new shoe, with less cost. And while this technically increases your total spread, when you are employing spread both ways technique, someone really has to see two different shoes, one with the negative count and the other with a positive count up to max bets to see that full spread. That rarely occurs in the same shoe.

It is just an extra option, and if you never use it and only show $50-$400, there is no difference showing that at a $50 table than a $25 dollar table. So deciding to only play $50 minimums as moses seems to be doing, is just limiting your opportunities, and that is why moses is incorrectly concluding there are only a handfull of games available. If he is willing to play $25 minimum, even employing a personal minimum of $50, you have so many more options, basically every casino. :rolleyes:

Yeah I agree on the $25 point. Moses holds the belief that a $50-400 spread at a $25 table is viewed as a $25-400 spread so draws 16:1 heat. I have no experience as to whether that is correct.

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Mcap has already made two posts substantially just to complain about my errantly placed thread...which is 2x as many posts in the last several weeks as I have made errantly placed threads.

EDIT TO BE CLEAR: I'm not including the post he made IN said errantly placed thread. One would think that would have been sufficient to make his point, but I guess not.

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Just another routine walk in the park for Mr mcap. Anybody who doesn't recognise this same tired shtick by now, has been asleep for a VERY LOOOONG time !

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You’re seeming obsession with me is a little bit sus dude....rent free or whatever I guess.

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Originally Posted by mcap

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Mcap has already made two posts substantially just to complain about my errantly placed thread...which is 2x as many posts in the last several weeks as I have made errantly placed threads.

EDIT TO BE CLEAR: I'm not including the post he made IN said errantly placed thread. One would think that would have been sufficient to make his point, but I guess not.

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Just another routine walk in the park for Mr mcap. Anybody who doesn't recognise this same tired shtick by now, has been asleep for a VERY LOOOONG time !

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You’re seeming obsession with me is a little bit sus dude....rent free or whatever I guess.

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About 1/8 of the obsession of your Tusha/Threads sickness.

Are you fucking serious starting this thread?

Everyone knows you and Mosses hate each other and always did. Now you’re going to pretend this thread you created is about helping him adjust to Las Vegas.

You just don’t know what else you could do to try and convince members that you understand BJ and your reason for forum existence is to help BJ players, even if the student thinks you’re full of shit.

You should give classes teaching players how to perform the Houdini maneuvers. No ID, no cards, avoiding surveillance, etc


You go beyond pathetic.

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Originally Posted by mcap

You’re seeming obsession with me is a little bit sus dude...

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Ozzy has brass in pocket

He's gonna make you notice

He's special, so special

He's gotta have some of your attention...give it to him!

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Look goofball <- :D There has vnever been any benefit to me trying to offer some thoughts that help newer players, or in this case an experienced player, who may be changing his situation, but I like to do so in honor of those that helped me along the way. In this case, Moses can't particpate here and I can't at WoV so it is what it is. get over it! :p

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I'm plenty over it! I appreciate you taking my joke so well. I'm not really worried about Moses and yourself passing notes across the aether of the internet; the joke just popped into my head, so I had to run with it.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Are you fucking serious starting this thread?

Everyone knows you and Mosses hate each other and always did. Now you’re going to pretend this thread you created is about helping him adjust to Las Vegas.

You just don’t know what else you could do to try and convince members that you understand BJ and your reason for forum existence is to help BJ players, even if the student thinks you’re full of shit.

You should give classes teaching players how to perform the Houdini maneuvers. No ID, no cards, avoiding surveillance, etc


You go beyond pathetic.

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Now, Blackhole...I don't go to your threads and tell you how you can be doing a better job of being a cunt, do I? I could be 3x the cunt you are, if I wanted to be. I figure I'll just let you have it, though.

It is, after all, the only thing you've got in life...or, the only thing that you have demonstrated that you have on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Now, Blackhole...I don't go to your threads and tell you how you can be doing a better job of being a cunt, do I? I could be 3x the cunt you are, if I wanted to be. I figure I'll just let you have it, though.

It is, after all, the only thing you've got in life...or, the only thing that you have demonstrated that you have on this forum.

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Mission, you are such a washed-up gambling forum has been it’s becoming weird to even reply to you anymore. It’s obvious you really don’t have a clue about most of what you pretend to know. After all, you are employed to author fairy tales in hopes of luring in gambling customers for the Serbs in a third world country. Is this the best you could do?

No one is concerned or care what you have to say anymore. Give it a rest. Dig deep and find some integrity.

You don't bother with my threads. You just make 25 posts in them backing up someone you never met or spoke to in person. Oh that's right, "it sounds good"

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Mission, you are such a washed-up gambling forum has been it’s becoming weird to even reply to you anymore. It’s obvious you really don’t have a clue about most of what you pretend to know. After all, you are employed to author fairy tales in hopes of luring in gambling customers for the Serbs in a third world country. Is this the best you could do?

No one is concerned or care what you have to say anymore. Give it a rest. Dig deep and find some integrity.

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https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-...20/#post815219

Really pro trying to get people to gamble, aren't I? Just face the fact that you know nothing about anything.

Win at gambling or lose at gambling; we have, one and all, lost at life or we wouldn't even be here. Ultimately, none of us are any, 'Better,' than any other, but some are less stupid than others. You are not one of them. You are both a loser at life and stupid.

It’s ok Mission, even if you are a washed up gambling forum has been you’re certainly far above me in Ozzy’s forum poster rankings list.

Don't even try to deny it, or if you do, try to explain why you would be wasting your few remaining days talking to a loser asshole, like me.

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Originally Posted by mcap

It’s ok Mission, even if you are a washed up gambling forum has been you’re certainly far above me in Ozzy’s forum poster rankings list.

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That's a relief. JK.

Four hidden members on and you're one of them. How long is this fucking three-sentence response going to take? I'm going to start arguing with myself out of boredom.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

. You just make 25 posts in them backing up someone you never met or spoke to in person. Oh that's right, "it sounds good"

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You poltroon, that's just the way the world works; you know this yet play the fool simply to annoy others while amusing yourself.

I don't think I've EVER met any of the political candidates I voted for, yet I felt informed enough to voice my opinion.

Take the Bible, or the Koran: nobody alive today met anybody who wrote them yet the words of these "unmet authors" are so valued that religions and philosophies are based on what they said.

No, you're just a contrarian troll engaging in a long term campaign of fecal painting AP's, for reasons unknown.

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You don't bother with my threads. You just make 25 posts in them backing up someone you never met or spoke to in person. Oh that's right, "it sounds good"

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It takes you eight minutes to add a sentence?

You're going to criticize me for not being in a thread, "Took his ball and went home," or for being in a thread. That's inconsistent. From what I have seen, KewlJ's posts are at least less inconsistent than this...and that's over a period of several years, as opposed to less than a day.

It would be one thing if you were smart enough to advance intelligent arguments, and maybe you were once upon a time, no longer.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

No, you're just a contrarian troll engaging in a long term campaign of fecal painting AP's, for reasons unknown.

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I mean, as long as we are engaged in baseless speculation anyway---I'm going to say that he equates AP's to whatever charlatan he bought a gambling system from, believed in it, and proceeded to lose a fuck ton of money.

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Originally Posted by mcap

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Mcap has already made two posts substantially just to complain about my errantly placed thread...which is 2x as many posts in the last several weeks as I have made errantly placed threads.

EDIT TO BE CLEAR: I'm not including the post he made IN said errantly placed thread. One would think that would have been sufficient to make his point, but I guess not.

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Just another routine walk in the park for Mr mcap. Anybody who doesn't recognise this same tired shtick by now, has been asleep for a VERY LOOOONG time !

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You’re seeming obsession with me is a little bit sus dude....rent free or whatever I guess.

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If your posts have nothing to do with Las Vegas can you at least make them gambling related. Thanks.

Here are some quotes from Moses and other Las Vegas BJ players from the WOV thread KJ claims was the reason he started this thread here to help give advice to Moses, because he's presently banned again over there and can't post. You can't make this shit up. The “successful one” reference is pointing out KJ.

QUOTES:

As Richard Munchkin has said many times, "Vegas is the worst place in the country to count cards."

The successful one gets backed off and just keeps going back. That would scare me. I did it once and found myself surrounded.

Problem is there are so many forum millionaires socking it to Vegas blackjack tables. Im not sure of their tolerances.

I mean 35 to 50 backoffs in a few years. And still be welcomed back at most tabkes? Amazing. What nice people they all must be..

Now there is the successful one who floats in like a butterfly and stings like a bee to profit $80k to $100k a year. Evidently, according to his/her posts, there are numerous others soaking casinos for even more.

What I dont understand is your friends crusade to get more newbies to play by constantly speaking to his success. Yes, maybe it's only a few. But it only takes one to screw it all up. Plus now the newbie is sitting in your seat. When did winning stop being enough?

If you are winning regular money on a consistent play basis..meaning they know your face, how long is it going to take the casino to figure out he’s a card counter and “just let him be” is going to be the mentality of the pit?

Quite frankly, based on the blackjack survey, I am not able to comprehend KJ's rotation and returns to so many backoffs.

A successful player for over a decade span says to stay away from $50 min bet 6 shoes and up. Cant bet 1 and 2 hands on double deck games which are closely hawked. Stay off the strip. What's left to play? How do you get a rotation of 10, 25, 30 casinos after all that has been eliminated?

i honestly feel no good will come from card counting because of the backoffs, its your money/life maybe you be another ZK or KJ and avoid detection and win forever

Not sure about the dodge and pony ahow KJ employs.

yes you will get captured as a card counter its not a matter of if but when? this theory of a KJ playing over a decade w/o detection or they know but dont care is a croc thats right i said it a croc of you know what! so please Moses save your self time, money and energy

anywho yea those bj games are more protected than the mafia's daughter once they see winning they will capture you if it were that ez everybody be doing it (i bet its knee deep in atlantic city tables right now)

I came to realize from this thread to stay put, increase my bet and change my routine

The person you are quoting, dawinnaatiozins, doesn't seem to have a clue about Las Vegas blackjack, or blackjack in general for that matter. Just the fact that he used the word "capture" in saying "they will capture you" shows a complete lack of understanding how things work. In his short time at WoV he also has challenged claims of other AP's like Dark oz, while at the same time, reading through just a few of his 20 posts or so, he seems to believe Mdawg. THAT tells you all you need to know. :D

However, the fact that moses almost decided to relocate to Vegas was a bit of an eye opener for me. Nothing good could have come of it for me and other card counters that play Vegas. So I am going to change my tune, right here and now.

Yes, my blackjack claims are not to be believed. Vegas blackjack is unplayable. Anyone who tries will get "captured", so everyone should just stay away. :cool:

I still know zero about blackjack and still have no idea if kewlj plies his wares in a brothel in Pahrump or as a card counter in Las Vegas.

Having said that, does it make any sense to quote an anonymous source who claims to count cards in Reno as a means to debunk someone who claims to count cards in Las Vegas? Especially when, and correct me if I'm wrong, it would seem to be way more difficult to count cards in Reno.

What logical sense does any of that make? It's a real tilt-a-whirl argument. You're quoting someone who alleges he's doing something more difficult than what a second person is doing. And it's to demonstrate that what the second person is doing is too difficult to do.

"Here are some quotes from Moses and other Las Vegas BJ players from the WOV"

Redietz, Shouldn't you be chopping down trees getting ready for the cold winter, instead of wasting time here deflecting for someone you can't even confirm exists?

Blackhole's signature line is about sucking cocks. That should tell you all you need to know.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Blackhole's signature line is about sucking cocks. That should tell you all you need to know.

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And yours is about shit stains in your underwear. Take a shower and wash your clothes you disgusting hobo tramp. :)

My signature is about all you people. So precious.