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I'm an honest guy, a straight shooter, but that doesn't mean I always have pure thoughts ... about gambling.
At times I ask myself "If I wanted to, what would be the best way to cheat a casino?"
I am envisioning a move with potential for big profit and small risk of detection.
Could I pull it off alone, or would I need a partner, or perhaps be in cahoots with the dealer?
So "purely hypothetically," what might be the best cheat moves?
Don't try it. The "eye in the sky" is always quicker than the hand. I've studied the twenty or so greatest such attempts, as came up on the forums. If I could remember one that was successful I would bring it up. In fact, the security equipment is mostly, if not entirely, to watch the dealers.
It may not be cheatings, exact, but there are app for yer phone what can allow you to keep perfect count of them zany sides-bet what they offer at the baccarats, hey hey.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that would be cheating, at least in the States.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/cas...-counting-app/
"What is definitely illegal, however, is the employment of any kind of electronic device that aids players in counting cards."
By cheating you mean outright theft? SOmeone on here suggested having the keys to a machine to grab a cashbox and run. You pre-stuff it and cash out the Tito. Be by a large highway or a place to easily drive off in many directions. Remove the plates off you car. I mean ok the chance wouldn't exactly be "low".. but..Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Ff you're just looking for what most people mean by "cheat" then good luck with that. Table game stuff is too closely watched.. slight of hand stuff. switching cards. I guess you could probe to find a place with really weak game protection ?
Anyway.. just my 2 cents. I'm interested in hearing people hypothesize.
Players have found ways to put tiny cameras in shuffle machines, and, if I recall, something to do with cutting the cards for shoe games, by brushing past the cards. Here's an example of the first.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...games-1074145/
By the way, casinos have many ways to cheat you, even at baccarat.
I am referring to what we'd likely recognize as cheating a casino, e.g. past posting, "capping" a casino chip, marking cards and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Stealing a cash box would be beyond what I'd call cheating albeit both are illegal.
Well I kinda figured it was out of your intent but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be posted as part of the convo. Yes, it is outright theft but I'm not sure outright cheating is any different in you really think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVI am referring to what we'd likely recognize as cheating a casino, e.g. past posting, "capping" a casino chip, marking cards and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Stealing a cash box would be beyond what I'd call cheating albeit both are illegal.
Unfortunately the best things I've heard that were actually in play are not something I'd wish to share.
Actually this might explain the cheating shufflers that I suspect were a thing but can't discuss. A camera would work far better but then it has do image recognition or transmit video. hmmQuote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
I think that if you go back far enough, there have been guys who made millions by visual ballistics, even shut a casino down. Naturally biased roulette wheels. Not exactly cheating. Now there are electronic devices for that, too, but try to find a casino that allows them.
Card marking technology today is off the chain. Casinos are not doing anything about it either. At most they prevent introduction of cards that are not their's into games. Some places are obviously going to have more protective measures than others.
https://billzender.com/the-future-of...-games-part-1/
Quote:
One thing Blazevic adamantly stated is that the Spectrum Vision SV-1 is used to confirm the presence of paints or daubs. It also can be used as a device to rule out that cards have been marked with paints or daubs. The Spectrum Vision does not detect marked cards while the cards are in play. This process is left up to the game protection personnel. To detect marked cards, table games and surveillance personnel need to know which games are most subject to marked card attacks and what indicators or “tells” they must watch for to determine whether to remove cards from the game for possible confirmation (or rejection) by the SV-1.
Anyway, V, the game for a really big such score is baccarat, because of its low variance, and, the fact, that no casino on the face of the Earth would ever think that someone is legitimately beating it. Dare I say, that if whatever you're doing went undetected, and you started betting big, created such a history, you might hit for a hundred million, before coming to the end of it.
Wouldn't lower variance mean that they'd look at wins even more closely? Please explain?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
LOL, what ever happened to Mark Howe and his roulette computer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
Luck still happens, especially in traditionally high-betting games such as baccarat, where the limit often has to do with the first bet placed. Casinos are more comfortable with waiting for things to level off when the variance is low. Eg, I was told by a pit guy, at the MGM casino in Detroit, shortly after it opened, that the allowed win in one session at at a $25 blackjack table was $10,000. After that, you would be sent on your way.
Those guys are still at it. (Some of them.)Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVLOL, what ever happened to Mark Howe and his roulette computer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
Come on, garnabby, ain't no joint gonna give a cat the gavel for winnings 10ks. They mostly likely gonna comp him so he'll stick around and give it back, hey hey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
Cheating - no.
Getting paid on hands I lost, why not? Now, for a couple hundred dollars I'll actually just point out the error to the dealer and hand it back, but when it's happened for larger sums, I don't say a word.
It's just what I was told. I guess that he meant working from $25 bets.Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfanQuote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
Come on, garnabby, ain't no joint gonna give a cat the gavel for winnings 10ks. They mostly likely gonna comp him so he'll stick around and give it back, hey hey.
V, regarding whether or not it is wise to work a cheat with more than you alone: definitely not smart. You can never, ever be sure a "partner" won't tell someone, or if they would sing if they were arrested. For the same reason, you would always keep your scheme private until at least the statute of limitations passes.
Hey, I am not looking for ways to actually cheat: that ain't my modus operandi.
No,it's more of a hypothetical question.
I've read threads and articles about various methods and hey, what do you know, they got caught ... but then how else would we have heard about it?
I wouldn't do it alone because a few of those really big baccarat players who couldn't make their markers disappeared off the face of the Earth. Beyond that, if I told you how to (hypothetically) actually do it, you would call me daft, again. Ha.
LOL, I'd call you "daft" even if your Theory of Everything were proven true.
Nothing wrong with being daft, in fact in this day and age eccentricity is a bit of a positive.
Perhaps live poker team collusion. Devil's advocates would say this is cheating other players and not the casino. and they'd be right.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVI am referring to what we'd likely recognize as cheating a casino, e.g. past posting, "capping" a casino chip, marking cards and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Stealing a cash box would be beyond what I'd call cheating albeit both are illegal.
Imagine needing to cheat to beat the casino. That's why I'm the best. Very few in the history of AP have made what I have from direct profits. Not some multi card bullshit, team play, or even slots in general. Straight solo direct profits beating a game straight up. It's alright Mr. V, gambling isn't for everyone. Stick to retirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Thanks for the advice ZenKing but I think I'll ignore it.
Hey V, doesn't kew trying to use you for your unequalled kindness feel like he "cheated" you? Especially when he asked for professional advice when he KNEW it was all a lie?Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
And you say you FORGIVE such a scumbag?
I hope you don't have any daughters.....
It really was no big deal.
Heck, I forgive both you and MDawg for your "trespasses" as well.
V come on. The script here is to make the little nervous compulsive liar feel as bad as he possibly can! That way we'll get more poorly written, ill-prepared, and nervously untruthful (ha!--what else?) essays loaded with deflections about others spun with his "hey guys--I'm one of those millennial jerks!" specialty: misstatements, innuendos, and sleazy lies.
We LIKE that stuff!
Like most people. Go ask how all my stocks have done. Ignore that too. Keep hanging yourselves. That's the biggest payback. Life. I got zero worriesQuote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
V, looks like you missed your shot to be as worry free, relaxed, content, & fully self-actualized as ZenKing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinGLike most people. Go ask how all my stocks have done. Ignore that too. Keep hanging yourselves. That's the biggest payback. Life. I got zero worriesQuote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Probably the dumbest thing you ever said.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinGImagine needing to cheat to beat the casino. That's why I'm the best. Very few in the history of AP have made what I have from direct profits. Not some multi card bullshit, team play, or even slots in general. Straight solo direct profits beating a game straight up. It's alright Mr. V, gambling isn't for everyone. Stick to retirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Playing the game "Straight Up" is for Suckers.
Zenking needs to post more. He fits in so great with his relaxed exceptionally successful style.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBenV, looks like you missed your shot to be as worry free, relaxed, content, & fully self-actualized as ZenKing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinGLike most people. Go ask how all my stocks have done. Ignore that too. Keep hanging yourselves. That's the biggest payback. Life. I got zero worriesQuote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
How true that is: so refreshing to read tales of casino dragon slaying from a forum posterr who actually claims he WINS in casinos.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
He can be at the head of the parade, raising and lowering his baton in time to the primeval beat of life in sin city while the rest of us follow, out of step, clueless, eyes focused on the pavement, constantly seeking traction on the slippery slope of defeat.
He's an inspiration I tell ya.
Like Monet wrote, playing straight up is for suckers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinG
Yeah, it's for suckers that actually have a brain. The ones looking for that short term quick hit to riches leaks into your overall life in so many ways. You're only cheating yourself at the end of the day. That mentality is trash. I'm not saying you shouldn't take advantage of mistakes, procedures, promotions in your favor or things like that cause I have zero morals inside of a casino due to the scum that run these joints, but needing to 'cheat' and risk a criminal record. Yeah that's also for the scum. Not only do I not cheat, ive been cheated my whole career and still can't be fucking stopped. King of the jungle. Best ever and it isn't even fucking close. Suggest you guys stick to corporate america
https://youtu.be/k6p1Ck0ab80Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinG
Live footage of how your brain processes information.Quote:
Cycling between paranoia / depression (Casinos always cheat on holiday weekends, no way to possibly win, hopeless) & mania / grandeur (I’m worry free, King of the jungle I’m the best ever, not even close)
All kidding aside, may want to get checked out for Bipolar disorder. They have medications that can put you back on an even keel & live a more fulfilled life.
Who knew that playing off abandoned next-hand multipliers was cheating. Thanks for straightening that out. Anyway, carry on with your 1% grind fests.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinG
OVERPAYERS was the main slot cheat back in the day. Can't explain right now. Got a busy day.
I think u talked about this b4 on one of your interviews. U said that in the coin dropping days guys would walk down a slot aisle & throw a $20 in every machine, cash it out and then take the money to the cage, if they had extra money from an aisle they would then narrow it down to which machine was overpaying as sometimes the parts were worn & they would drop too many coins so guys would just keep feeding them & cashing out till the hoppers were empty.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Interesting stuff if thats the story you were referring to & if I remembered it right.
I found a machine similar to that once way back in my degen days. It was an old IGT red white & blue and sporadically when you put $20s in, sometimes it would rack the credits up twice. Weird thing was it didn’t do it every time, It would do it every 3 to 10 times & only on $20s.
Yeah that is strange. Usually, the overpaid credits thing was due to a mix-up with the bill validator and machine denomination. The most common was a 4x multiple, where a dollar machine gave you credits as if it was a quarter machine. I don't know exactly why or how this happened. I always assumed it happened during the drop and somehow they accidentally mixed up the bill validators. Or perhaps when fixing a broken bill validator they didn't adjust the settings correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
That would be a nice advantage. Depending on the denomination and what they set the hand pays at. If it were a 3-coin $1 machine you could just sit and free roll hand pays, and sick rack-filling runs. Some places hitting solid blue and up where hand pays.
Fun fact> The Elcortez had so many problems with over payers at one time, they only filled the .25 machines with $50.
Shut The Fuck Up You Redskin Chink Nigger!Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinG
If I remember this correctly, you did an autobiography thread at videopoker dot com, and an overpayer-player came into the thread with some amazing stories. I knew such a thing was possible, but had no idea it could be a professional area of specialty. His forum handle was Lazyace, but he deleted all his posts apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
The thread was from 2009.
I actually heard a fairly wild story about a cheating incident that went on for quite some time. It is crazy what people get by with at a casino with the right level of incompetency.
We really need a private forum that isn't full of random lurkers and upper-tier weirdos...
So, it's cheatings if you use an app/device but it's kosher if you use yer brain or even the pen and score-card what they provide at the baccarats table, makes senses to me, hey hey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
there are lots of things that don't make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfan
Do you know, if a card counter is using chips to help him count, maybe using different stacks, or positioning them differently to keep track of some things in the more advanced counts, using chips is technically a device for cheating. Positioning a cigarette lighter at different positions to aid with the count is technically using a device to cheat. Bob N has mentioned this on one of the shows. ;)
Technology is moving so fast right now, that we are in a period that it is hard to keep up. We are in an unusual spot right now as far as the device laws.
Biological Men Trans-Gendering into Women need to be stopped at the Poker Tables.
Clearly Cheating!
I can envision perhaps using some form of AI at a black jack table.
Have a small, hidden camera send the image to the AI and via ear bud let AI tell you the correct move.
I assume they let gamblers use earbuds, ostensibly to listen to music?
I knew someone that worked with Lazyace. Would run into them here and there. As everything started moving to TITO, about the only machines left with coin out was the Bally Gamemakers. That was the machines that lazyace worked. They could be found all across I-80 in northern Nevada.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don PerignomIf I remember this correctly, you did an autobiography thread at videopoker dot com, and an overpayer-player came into the thread with some amazing stories. I knew such a thing was possible, but had no idea it could be a professional area of specialty. His forum handle was Lazyace, but he deleted all his posts apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
The thread was from 2009.
Parts would wear out on machines and they would pay out more coins than they were supposed to. If you ever watched a slot tech fix a machine on the casino floor, the last thing he would do is create a 10 coin payout then catch the coins before they hit the hopper. If 11 or more coins came out it was an overpayer.
Another thing the techs and floor people did was time stamp a log inside the machine. If the machine took 3 fills in a 24 hour period they would shut the machine down and have a tech look at it.
Some of the guys that worked overpayers would walk away once they drained the 3rd fill. Most places put $200 to $250 in quarters in the machines. But some were as low as $100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmI knew someone that worked with Lazyace. Would run into them here and there. As everything started moving to TITO, about the only machines left with coin out was the Bally Gamemakers. That was the machines that lazyace worked. They could be found all across I-80 in northern Nevada.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don PerignomIf I remember this correctly, you did an autobiography thread at videopoker dot com, and an overpayer-player came into the thread with some amazing stories. I knew such a thing was possible, but had no idea it could be a professional area of specialty. His forum handle was Lazyace, but he deleted all his posts apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
The thread was from 2009.
Parts would wear out on machines and they would pay out more coins than they were supposed to. If you ever watched a slot tech fix a machine on the casino floor, the last thing he would do is create a 10 coin payout then catch the coins before they hit the hopper. If 11 or more coins came out it was an overpayer.
Another thing the techs and floor people did was time stamp a log inside the machine. If the machine took 3 fills in a 24 hour period they would shut the machine down and have a tech look at it.
Some of the guys that worked overpayers would walk away once they drained the 3rd fill. Most places put $200 to $250 in quarters in the machines. But some were as low as $100.
the link is to mickey's autobiographical thread from the past which I was able to locate thanks to Don Perignom
what an amazing story
it's hard to believe - but I do believe it
many years ago I would never have believed someone could make a living from slot machines
to me they are so intimidating - I've never even put a quarter in one
it's a great story - some publisher or producer should somehow turn it into a book or movie -
https://www.videopoker.com/forum/vie...php?f=4&t=2120
Redietz is the one who is looking for the movie deal. Mickey has no interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half SmokeQuote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmI knew someone that worked with Lazyace. Would run into them here and there. As everything started moving to TITO, about the only machines left with coin out was the Bally Gamemakers. That was the machines that lazyace worked. They could be found all across I-80 in northern Nevada.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Perignom
Parts would wear out on machines and they would pay out more coins than they were supposed to. If you ever watched a slot tech fix a machine on the casino floor, the last thing he would do is create a 10 coin payout then catch the coins before they hit the hopper. If 11 or more coins came out it was an overpayer.
Another thing the techs and floor people did was time stamp a log inside the machine. If the machine took 3 fills in a 24 hour period they would shut the machine down and have a tech look at it.
Some of the guys that worked overpayers would walk away once they drained the 3rd fill. Most places put $200 to $250 in quarters in the machines. But some were as low as $100.
the link is to mickey's autobiographical thread from the past which I was able to locate thanks to Don Perignom
what an amazing story
it's hard to believe - but I do believe it
many years ago I would never have believed someone could make a living from slot machines
to me they are so intimidating - I've never even put a quarter in one
it's a great story - some publisher or producer should somehow turn it into a book or movie -
https://www.videopoker.com/forum/vie...php?f=4&t=2120
I've had the same thought before in regards to a book. I don't read many books and memoirs aren't very high on that list to begin with but Mickey does have a life that is unique enough to justify a book.
You guys! There won't be a book about even Shackleford. I don't doubt that Shackleford wrote a few, but, not likely about himself. Even if, it would be very niche. In Crimm's case, who would be noted as his contemporaries, and interactions? Singer, and Max? Deceased hobos X, Y, and Z? And, then, Crimm's been known, admit, to make at least a few things up. The reason that neither of the gambling forums as a whole went anywhere.
there are not many places for a gambling forum to goQuote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
most of them - (not this one) - are populated by compulsive gamblers dreaming of an easy life - dropping into a casino for a couple of hours every other day and pocketing a few thou
its' membership is not a group of people that is likely to wow the world with fabulous accomplishments
.
So what has Crimm been known to make up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
Here is why I find the guy interesting. He was a hobo and did the whole riding the rails thing. He is totally self taught when it comes to gambling math. Then there is just all the history he knows about historic machine play. It is a fairly narrow audience for his book but for a few of us who have found these sorts of things interesting - he'd be a great fit. He isn't going to be on the top 10 amazon list or anything but he'd likely be well above a lot of the crap vanity fiction/memoirs people do actually write and self-publish.
Win if you can, lose if you must, but ALWAYS cheat!
Oh, I don't know. Just my offhand recollections from his pages and pages of posts, a few years ago, around the time he was arguing with Singer. For some reason, Crimm wrote a lot about of own history, back then. I seem to recall that there were things sold to others that weren't to be desired, and, other cons, to get by with the crowd before the slots stuff. And, around the same time, his conversations with Alan, whom Crimm took for a fool to (try to) do with as he pleased. Before that, the stuff that Crimm wrote at the Wizard's forum. Something about fights with rocks in socks. A lot of down-and-dirty stuff. It didn't help his literary aspirations, either, to tell so many off along the way. Of course, it couldn't have mattered what he wrote about the likes of Singer. Probably, best to let Crimm comment further.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
People who want to stop drinking, etc, don't have to get into such a competitive, etc, "career" as gambling. I wonder that it wasn't a bit like taking up religion in jail, to switch from one poison, or whatever, to another, especially along with the motel/hotel lifestyle. Can't really make a mark for yourself without a clean break, something truly new and different.
I bet that a lot of the stuff that people talk about on the forums is illegal, in some way.Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfanSo, it's cheatings if you use an app/device but it's kosher if you use yer brain or even the pen and score-card what they provide at the baccarats table, makes senses to me, hey hey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottlob1
Best to work with what's already in the casinos. On the one hand, to develop new and different strategies to play the games, themselves. On the other, ways to get around that. Various things come in various conditions. As a far-fetched example, if you had a dog's nose, and watched who held which cards, then you could train yourself to smell which cards were next out of the shoe.
Anyway, I had another idea while I was thinking about this thread, this time around. A bit beyond what mathematicians might have tried, for it to be thus limited. Nothing wrong with a tiny advantage if you can work it in a parallel sense, between the different card ranks, as go along.
Dammit, quit stealing my nickel video poker pictures! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
Cheers M8.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbDammit, quit stealing my nickel video poker pictures! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay