Extraordinary NFL Results --

Last season, both Todd Witteles ("Dan Druff") and Rob Argentino ("Rob Singer") handicapped their way to top-notch NFL ATS records. Argentino made things tougher by using a forced-choice, five-games-per-week format, which is somewhat artificial but more difficult than taking however many games you want each week. That format is generally used by most NFL contests, large and small.

Witteles cooled off some in the final weeks but had a wonderful record. Argentino had a superb record, but called it quits after a bad week the end of November. No law against that. In fact, he should be saluted for doing so because it indicates he knew when he had run out of advantages.

No matter my issues with Argentino, what he did was top notch and needed to be recognized. Witteles, meanwhile, brought a certain sensibility to his handicapping that suggested long-term, not that he would break the bank season after season, but that he knew what he was looking for.

That brings me to report the 2023 formally tracked records of my co-host of the Billy Walters' book event, who had helmed a high stakes sports betting cartel in LV back in the 90's.

My co-host is in the free BetOnline Mega-Contest and the Survivor.

After last night's game, my co-host is 39-21 ATS, picking five games a week in forced choice format, and sitting in 44th place out of 20,000 in the Mega-Contest.

My co-host is also one of the remaining 166 people out of 22,000 in the Survivor Contest.

Basically, in the top one-fourth of one percent in the Mega and top one percent of the Survivor. Tough to pull that off. It also puts a context to the difficulty of what Witteles and Argentino did last year. I think it was kewlJ who didn't appreciate the rarity of earning a record like this. It is very, very rare, especially on NFL sides.

Now, I expect, as with Witteles and Argentino, for my co-host's record to not be maintained down the stretch, especially the last couple of weeks when everything is a zoo. But to sit in these positions at this stage is really a rare event.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Last season, both Todd Witteles ("Dan Druff") and Rob Argentino ("Rob Singer") handicapped their way to top-notch NFL ATS records. Argentino made things tougher by using a forced-choice, five-games-per-week format, which is somewhat artificial but more difficult than taking however many games you want each week. That format is generally used by most NFL contests, large and small.

Witteles cooled off some in the final weeks but had a wonderful record. Argentino had a superb record, but called it quits after a bad week the end of November. No law against that. In fact, he should be saluted for doing so because it indicates he knew when he had run out of advantages.

No matter my issues with Argentino, what he did was top notch and needed to be recognized. Witteles, meanwhile, brought a certain sensibility to his handicapping that suggested long-term, not that he would break the bank season after season, but that he knew what he was looking for.

That brings me to report the 2023 formally tracked records of my co-host of the Billy Walters' book event, who had helmed a high stakes sports betting cartel in LV back in the 90's.

My co-host is in the free BetOnline Mega-Contest and the Survivor.

After last night's game, my co-host is 39-21 ATS, picking five games a week in forced choice format, and sitting in 44th place out of 20,000 in the Mega-Contest.

My co-host is also one of the remaining 166 people out of 22,000 in the Survivor Contest.

Basically, in the top one-fourth of one percent in the Mega and top one percent of the Survivor. Tough to pull that off. It also puts a context to the difficulty of what Witteles and Argentino did last year. I think it was kewlJ who didn't appreciate the rarity of earning a record like this. It is very, very rare, especially on NFL sides.

Now, I expect, as with Witteles and Argentino, for my co-host's record to not be maintained down the stretch, especially the last couple of weeks when everything is a zoo. But to sit in these positions at this stage is really a rare event.

---

None of this matters unless we know how much Money is on the line. How much did they win ? How much do they have ? How much does this guy keep ? You see gambling is more then winning in your specific field of expertise. One of the best machine APs I know regularly runs up 10 to 15k a week but eventually loses it all in the pit gambling. Never holding on to one cent. Bottom line He’s a fucking failure period.

From all accounts it seems you fall into this same category. If you couldn’t pay the tax’s on your home. No one should take advice from broke degenerates or even believe what they are saying. Maybe you were successful at one point but just like the 99 percent of fake pro gamblers you lost it all. Now all you have is fairytales to tell of years past. Living in little Chicago wishing for the glory days

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Last season, both Todd Witteles ("Dan Druff") and Rob Argentino ("Rob Singer") handicapped their way to top-notch NFL ATS records. Argentino made things tougher by using a forced-choice, five-games-per-week format, which is somewhat artificial but more difficult than taking however many games you want each week. That format is generally used by most NFL contests, large and small.

Witteles cooled off some in the final weeks but had a wonderful record. Argentino had a superb record, but called it quits after a bad week the end of November. No law against that. In fact, he should be saluted for doing so because it indicates he knew when he had run out of advantages.

No matter my issues with Argentino, what he did was top notch and needed to be recognized. Witteles, meanwhile, brought a certain sensibility to his handicapping that suggested long-term, not that he would break the bank season after season, but that he knew what he was looking for.

That brings me to report the 2023 formally tracked records of my co-host of the Billy Walters' book event, who had helmed a high stakes sports betting cartel in LV back in the 90's.

My co-host is in the free BetOnline Mega-Contest and the Survivor.

After last night's game, my co-host is 39-21 ATS, picking five games a week in forced choice format, and sitting in 44th place out of 20,000 in the Mega-Contest.

My co-host is also one of the remaining 166 people out of 22,000 in the Survivor Contest.

Basically, in the top one-fourth of one percent in the Mega and top one percent of the Survivor. Tough to pull that off. It also puts a context to the difficulty of what Witteles and Argentino did last year. I think it was kewlJ who didn't appreciate the rarity of earning a record like this. It is very, very rare, especially on NFL sides.

Now, I expect, as with Witteles and Argentino, for my co-host's record to not be maintained down the stretch, especially the last couple of weeks when everything is a zoo. But to sit in these positions at this stage is really a rare event.

---

None of this matters unless we know how much Money is on the line. How much did they win ? How much do they have ? How much does this guy keep ? You see gambling is more then winning in your specific field of expertise. One of the best machine APs I know regularly runs up 10 to 15k a week but eventually loses it all in the pit gambling. Never holding on to one cent. Bottom line He’s a fucking failure period.

From all accounts it seems you fall into this same category. If you couldn’t pay the tax’s on your home. No one should take advice from broke degenerates or even believe what they are saying. Maybe you were successful at one point but just like the 99 percent of fake pro gamblers you lost it all. Now all you have is fairytales to tell of years past. Living in little Chicago wishing for the glory days

---

Seedvalue, according to your value system, every sheik in Saudi Arabia is more successful, and smarter, and wiser, and stronger than you. More worthy of respect. More worthy in general. And every Silicon Valley entrepreneur who didn't crash similarly is better, stronger, wiser, tougher, and smarter than you.

And 99% of Olympians are weak unsuccessful morons because they make no money doing what they do.

That's your value system. You're welcome to it.

To speculate that I somehow lost oodles of money doing this and that is silly. I had a 5,000 pound library, trimmed to half that size because I donated half my books the last 36 months. In case you're not an avid reader, books cost a fair amount of money. I have had no chinks in my gambling discipline. Ever.

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out how you could possibly not know that prostitution was illegal in Las Vegas. I mean, how did you not know that? It blows your entire storyline to Kingdom Come (note the little Seedvalue sex humor there).

I leave the reader to speculate. The biggest, most successful AP on the anonymous internet did not know prostitution was illegal in LV. Not sure what the odds are against that, but they are long.

You're basically the same narrative as MDawg, only street-level. Anonymous dude making gazillions because he's better, smarter, wiser than the common folk. You can have your narrative, my friend.

I'd rather be me than thou.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by redietz

Last season, both Todd Witteles ("Dan Druff") and Rob Argentino ("Rob Singer") handicapped their way to top-notch NFL ATS records. Argentino made things tougher by using a forced-choice, five-games-per-week format, which is somewhat artificial but more difficult than taking however many games you want each week. That format is generally used by most NFL contests, large and small.

Witteles cooled off some in the final weeks but had a wonderful record. Argentino had a superb record, but called it quits after a bad week the end of November. No law against that. In fact, he should be saluted for doing so because it indicates he knew when he had run out of advantages.

No matter my issues with Argentino, what he did was top notch and needed to be recognized. Witteles, meanwhile, brought a certain sensibility to his handicapping that suggested long-term, not that he would break the bank season after season, but that he knew what he was looking for.

That brings me to report the 2023 formally tracked records of my co-host of the Billy Walters' book event, who had helmed a high stakes sports betting cartel in LV back in the 90's.

My co-host is in the free BetOnline Mega-Contest and the Survivor.

After last night's game, my co-host is 39-21 ATS, picking five games a week in forced choice format, and sitting in 44th place out of 20,000 in the Mega-Contest.

My co-host is also one of the remaining 166 people out of 22,000 in the Survivor Contest.

Basically, in the top one-fourth of one percent in the Mega and top one percent of the Survivor. Tough to pull that off. It also puts a context to the difficulty of what Witteles and Argentino did last year. I think it was kewlJ who didn't appreciate the rarity of earning a record like this. It is very, very rare, especially on NFL sides.

Now, I expect, as with Witteles and Argentino, for my co-host's record to not be maintained down the stretch, especially the last couple of weeks when everything is a zoo. But to sit in these positions at this stage is really a rare event.

---

None of this matters unless we know how much Money is on the line. How much did they win ? How much do they have ? How much does this guy keep ? You see gambling is more then winning in your specific field of expertise. One of the best machine APs I know regularly runs up 10 to 15k a week but eventually loses it all in the pit gambling. Never holding on to one cent. Bottom line He’s a fucking failure period.

From all accounts it seems you fall into this same category. If you couldn’t pay the tax’s on your home. No one should take advice from broke degenerates or even believe what they are saying. Maybe you were successful at one point but just like the 99 percent of fake pro gamblers you lost it all. Now all you have is fairytales to tell of years past. Living in little Chicago wishing for the glory days

---

Seedvalue, according to your value system, every sheik in Saudi Arabia is more successful, and smarter, and wiser, and stronger than you. More worthy of respect. More worthy in general. And every Silicon Valley entrepreneur who didn't crash similarly is better, stronger, wiser, tougher, and smarter than you.

And 99% of Olympians are weak unsuccessful morons because they make no money doing what they do.

That's your value system. You're welcome to it.

To speculate that I somehow lost oodles of money doing this and that is silly. I had a 5,000 pound library, trimmed to half that size because I donated half my books the last 36 months. In case you're not an avid reader, books cost a fair amount of money. I have had no chinks in my gambling discipline. Ever.

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out how you could possibly not know that prostitution was illegal in Las Vegas. I mean, how did you not know that? It blows your entire storyline to Kingdom Come (note the little Seedvalue sex humor there).

I leave the reader to speculate. The biggest, most successful AP on the anonymous internet did not know prostitution was illegal in LV. Not sure what the odds are against that, but they are long.

You're basically the same narrative as MDawg, only street-level. Anonymous dude making gazillions because he's better, smarter, wiser than the common folk. You can have your narrative, my friend.

I'd rather be me than thou.

---

I’m talking about gambling. You see in gambling one must win money to be deemed successful. We don’t play for trophies. The amount of money one makes gambling is the score we all keep. I don’t understand how you can equate that with middle eastern oil tycoons or Olympic sports athletes.

Regarding the Vegas Prostitution legality you would know better, because I’ve never had to pay for Pussy or in your case dick. It would seem to me with places like the bunny ranch, and the open air escort card trading that it would be legal. I’ve already said as much but maybe you missed it. It never crossed my mind it was illegal.

With respect to my success it’s all relative. There are guys who have made multiple tens of millions more then I, however you are definitely not one of them. Are they more successful then me ? Yes In gambling most certainly again we keep score by the amount of money one has made and kept. Emphasis on kept because if you made 50 million gambling, but can’t pay your house tax’s you are not successful. Plenty of guys made money gambling and lost it all back. They are a dime a dozen.

Which brings me back to my original point. None of your post mean shit because it’s all fantasy like KewJ. You don’t bet 50k a game of your own money, and you most certainly don’t win a significant amount of money. Not now maybe in the past when Sandusky would take you into the showers for his afternoon meat massage, but not now. Just another fraud that can’t show shit

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

---

You seem to have received a failing grade on your evaluations.....RIP

But keep stroking yourself reminiscing about your blind squirrel finding a few nuts on a couple of free contests...lol

Out of how many entries? There's pretty much no limit when you can pay for entries for free or the change from a disability check or something..

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

There's pretty much no limit when you can pay for entries for free or the change from a disability check or something..

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What a fucking low life you have become. A complete sleazebag rivaling Rob Singer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

---

You must not read as much as you say, or perhaps technology is not something that interest you. My screen name has a meaning

Now anytime you would like to enter into a real contest of making money online or brick and mortar let me know. It will be fun to put you in your place champion. Like that piece of shit Italian restaurant you recommended in Grantvile. The one you said that was mobbed up and knew you lol. No one there knew who you were. Shit hole place anyway. I was in that area the first 6 months of last year printing more money then you probably made in 20 years. I’m willing to verify whatever if you do the same. Not a problem I’m just calling you out as the fraud you are.

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

---

You must not read as much as you say, or perhaps technology is not something that interest you. My screen name has a meaning

Now anytime you would like to enter into a real contest of making money online or brick and mortar let me know. It will be fun to put you in your place champion. Like that piece of shit Italian restaurant you recommended in Grantvile. The one you said that was mobbed up and knew you lol. No one there knew who you were. Shit hole place anyway. I was in that area the first 6 months of last year printing more money then you probably made in 20 years. I’m willing to verify whatever if you do the same. Not a problem I’m just calling you out as the fraud you are.

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He red I just got kicked out of store recently. How much you think I got them for ? Lol I do more real life shit in one day then you have in year. I got 65 $800s to get not that far from you. Maybe I will do it myself instead of sending a runner and we can set up a contest

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

There's pretty much no limit when you can pay for entries for free or the change from a disability check or something..

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What a fucking low life you have become. A complete sleazebag rivaling Rob Singer.

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Get back to work. Aria stall 11 is waiting on you.....RIP

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

There's pretty much no limit when you can pay for entries for free or the change from a disability check or something..

---

What a fucking low life you have become. A complete sleazebag rivaling Rob Singer.

---

All the frauds are protecting each other what a shock. I will take maxpen , Axel , Monet, and Mickey even tho mick is at war with them over comrade Red and fraud j on anything gambling related.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Last season, both Todd Witteles ("Dan Druff") and Rob Argentino ("Rob Singer") handicapped their way to top-notch NFL ATS records. Argentino made things tougher by using a forced-choice, five-games-per-week format, which is somewhat artificial but more difficult than taking however many games you want each week. That format is generally used by most NFL contests, large and small.

Witteles cooled off some in the final weeks but had a wonderful record. Argentino had a superb record, but called it quits after a bad week the end of November. No law against that. In fact, he should be saluted for doing so because it indicates he knew when he had run out of advantages.

No matter my issues with Argentino, what he did was top notch and needed to be recognized. Witteles, meanwhile, brought a certain sensibility to his handicapping that suggested long-term, not that he would break the bank season after season, but that he knew what he was looking for.

That brings me to report the 2023 formally tracked records of my co-host of the Billy Walters' book event, who had helmed a high stakes sports betting cartel in LV back in the 90's.

My co-host is in the free BetOnline Mega-Contest and the Survivor.

After last night's game, my co-host is 39-21 ATS, picking five games a week in forced choice format, and sitting in 44th place out of 20,000 in the Mega-Contest.

My co-host is also one of the remaining 166 people out of 22,000 in the Survivor Contest.

Basically, in the top one-fourth of one percent in the Mega and top one percent of the Survivor. Tough to pull that off. It also puts a context to the difficulty of what Witteles and Argentino did last year. I think it was kewlJ who didn't appreciate the rarity of earning a record like this. It is very, very rare, especially on NFL sides.

Now, I expect, as with Witteles and Argentino, for my co-host's record to not be maintained down the stretch, especially the last couple of weeks when everything is a zoo. But to sit in these positions at this stage is really a rare event.

---

After the Monday night game Steve Fezzik's record in Circa Millions was reported on one of the podcasts to be 42-15-3. The contest started with 5300 entries. Surprisingly, Fezzik is in just 2nd place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Seedvalue, according to your value system, every sheik in Saudi Arabia is more successful, and smarter, and wiser, and stronger than you. More worthy of respect. More worthy in general. And every Silicon Valley entrepreneur who didn't crash similarly is better, stronger, wiser, tougher, and smarter than you.

And 99% of Olympians are weak unsuccessful morons because they make no money doing what they do.

That's your value system. You're welcome to it.

To speculate that I somehow lost oodles of money doing this and that is silly. I had a 5,000 pound library, trimmed to half that size because I donated half my books the last 36 months. In case you're not an avid reader, books cost a fair amount of money. I have had no chinks in my gambling discipline. Ever.

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out how you could possibly not know that prostitution was illegal in Las Vegas. I mean, how did you not know that? It blows your entire storyline to Kingdom Come (note the little Seedvalue sex humor there).

I leave the reader to speculate. The biggest, most successful AP on the anonymous internet did not know prostitution was illegal in LV. Not sure what the odds are against that, but they are long.

---

How many games over .500 did you say an 8-4 record is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

---

Light of day? Then why do you keep hiding the name of this "anonymous co-host" you keep bragging about? Cough up a name or STFU.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

What a fucking low life you have become. A complete sleazebag rivaling Rob Singer.

---

Pot! This is kettle! You're black!

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Last season, both Todd Witteles ("Dan Druff") and Rob Argentino ("Rob Singer") handicapped their way to top-notch NFL ATS records. Argentino made things tougher by using a forced-choice, five-games-per-week format, which is somewhat artificial but more difficult than taking however many games you want each week. That format is generally used by most NFL contests, large and small.

Witteles cooled off some in the final weeks but had a wonderful record. Argentino had a superb record, but called it quits after a bad week the end of November. No law against that. In fact, he should be saluted for doing so because it indicates he knew when he had run out of advantages.

No matter my issues with Argentino, what he did was top notch and needed to be recognized. Witteles, meanwhile, brought a certain sensibility to his handicapping that suggested long-term, not that he would break the bank season after season, but that he knew what he was looking for.

That brings me to report the 2023 formally tracked records of my co-host of the Billy Walters' book event, who had helmed a high stakes sports betting cartel in LV back in the 90's.

My co-host is in the free BetOnline Mega-Contest and the Survivor.

After last night's game, my co-host is 39-21 ATS, picking five games a week in forced choice format, and sitting in 44th place out of 20,000 in the Mega-Contest.

My co-host is also one of the remaining 166 people out of 22,000 in the Survivor Contest.

Basically, in the top one-fourth of one percent in the Mega and top one percent of the Survivor. Tough to pull that off. It also puts a context to the difficulty of what Witteles and Argentino did last year. I think it was kewlJ who didn't appreciate the rarity of earning a record like this. It is very, very rare, especially on NFL sides.

Now, I expect, as with Witteles and Argentino, for my co-host's record to not be maintained down the stretch, especially the last couple of weeks when everything is a zoo. But to sit in these positions at this stage is really a rare event.

---

After the Monday night game Steve Fezzik's record in Circa Millions was reported on one of the podcasts to be 42-15-3. The contest started with 5300 entries. Surprisingly, Fezzik is in just 2nd place.

---

That's a truly spectacular record, maybe the best I've seen from a name, established handicapper at this stage of a season. He is honestly the best NFL contest player I have seen, and that's including historically going back 40 years. There are a couple of name people, one of whom I've met, who "ran the gauntlet," which was the phrase for sweeping all major NFL contests in Las Vegas in a given year. We used the same proxy. But what Fezzik has done at least matches them.

If he's hanging at South Point, we may be saying hello.

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

---

You must not read as much as you say, or perhaps technology is not something that interest you. My screen name has a meaning

Now anytime you would like to enter into a real contest of making money online or brick and mortar let me know. It will be fun to put you in your place champion. Like that piece of shit Italian restaurant you recommended in Grantvile. The one you said that was mobbed up and knew you lol. No one there knew who you were. Shit hole place anyway. I was in that area the first 6 months of last year printing more money then you probably made in 20 years. I’m willing to verify whatever if you do the same. Not a problem I’m just calling you out as the fraud you are.

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Ummmm, I never recommended an Italian restaurant in Grantville. I don't even know any Italian restaurants in Grantville. Is your memory okay, Seed?

Other than that, and the prostitution in Las Vegas thing, you are batting a thousand.

You know what bothers me about that prostitution whiff of yours? A couple of years before the pandemic, the mayor and downtown Las Vegas were floating the idea of legalizing prostitution downtown (as opposed to the strip). It was in the local news for months. Every news channel carried the story. It made national news, too. Anybody following Las Vegas had to know that prostitution was not currently legal. There was an actual, sustained debate about it. But somehow you're unaware or forgot.

Grantville, for readers, is the little town where Penn National is located. As many times as I visited Penn National back in my youth (it was about 10 miles from where my wife and I lived for five years), I'm not sure I ever drove through Grantville itself. I think I've been to Penn National once in the last 20 years. So how I recommended a restaurant in Grantville, I have zero idea. You are confusing me with someone else.

Have a great time printing money. I'm a handicapper, not a counterfeiter, by the way.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

---

You seem to have received a failing grade on your evaluations.....RIP

But keep stroking yourself reminiscing about your blind squirrel finding a few nuts on a couple of free contests...lol

Out of how many entries? There's pretty much no limit when you can pay for entries for free or the change from a disability check or something..

---

You're missing the whole point, Max. Why do you post regarding things you know nothing about?

You don't even know what a sports monitor is, or the history of them, or the legitimacy of (some) of them. The whole point is to have your record public; on a week to week basis. Have you ever read The Sport Monitor? Or Handicappers' Report Card? Or Tipsters or Gypsters? Or a publication called "The Absolute Truth?" At the tail end of Tipsters or Gypsters, McCusker didn't allow anyone monitored by him to be monitored by others. Eliminated the scattershot of using different lineups with different monitors, of which there were only a handful.

I was in a national newletter on thousands of news stands for more than a decade with my name attached. Hard to fake that stuff without mass hypnosis. I was on television one year (Buffalo's Satellite Cable Handicap) being monitored week to week.

I mean, c'mon, get serious.

This is an "AP" trait. Yack about things regarding which you know absolutely nothing. Why do you do that? You don't ever see me telling mickey his slots business or kewlJ how to play blackjack or Seedvalue what lotion to use.

P.S. I've been kind regarding Max. He had PMed me awhile back, saying that I was the only one who knew what I was talking about regarding a particular gambling situation. I just don't get why he'd post this stuff and not expect me to mention that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

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red, what's your record in the $1000 entry contests?

Which 1K college football entry contests are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

---

You must not read as much as you say, or perhaps technology is not something that interest you. My screen name has a meaning

Now anytime you would like to enter into a real contest of making money online or brick and mortar let me know. It will be fun to put you in your place champion. Like that piece of shit Italian restaurant you recommended in Grantvile. The one you said that was mobbed up and knew you lol. No one there knew who you were. Shit hole place anyway. I was in that area the first 6 months of last year printing more money then you probably made in 20 years. I’m willing to verify whatever if you do the same. Not a problem I’m just calling you out as the fraud you are.

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Ummmm, I never recommended an Italian restaurant in Grantville. I don't even know any Italian restaurants in Grantville. Is your memory okay, Seed?

Other than that, and the prostitution in Las Vegas thing, you are batting a thousand.

You know what bothers me about that prostitution whiff of yours? A couple of years before the pandemic, the mayor and downtown Las Vegas were floating the idea of legalizing prostitution downtown (as opposed to the strip). It was in the local news for months. Every news channel carried the story. It made national news, too. Anybody following Las Vegas had to know that prostitution was not currently legal. There was an actual, sustained debate about it. But somehow you're unaware or forgot.

Grantville, for readers, is the little town where Penn National is located. As many times as I visited Penn National back in my youth (it was about 10 miles from where my wife and I lived for five years), I'm not sure I ever drove through Grantville itself. I think I've been to Penn National once in the last 20 years. So how I recommended a restaurant in Grantville, I have zero idea. You are confusing me with someone else.

Have a great time printing money. I'm a handicapper, not a counterfeiter, by the way.

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It’s not in grantvile it’s near penn national and you most certainly did recommend it. I don’t have time to look it up currently but will later. Just like I don’t keep up on the legality of prostitution in Vegas. There’s only so much time in the day and I try not to waste it.

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

You must not read as much as you say, or perhaps technology is not something that interest you. My screen name has a meaning

Now anytime you would like to enter into a real contest of making money online or brick and mortar let me know. It will be fun to put you in your place champion. Like that piece of shit Italian restaurant you recommended in Grantvile. The one you said that was mobbed up and knew you lol. No one there knew who you were. Shit hole place anyway. I was in that area the first 6 months of last year printing more money then you probably made in 20 years. I’m willing to verify whatever if you do the same. Not a problem I’m just calling you out as the fraud you are.

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Ummmm, I never recommended an Italian restaurant in Grantville. I don't even know any Italian restaurants in Grantville. Is your memory okay, Seed?

Other than that, and the prostitution in Las Vegas thing, you are batting a thousand.

You know what bothers me about that prostitution whiff of yours? A couple of years before the pandemic, the mayor and downtown Las Vegas were floating the idea of legalizing prostitution downtown (as opposed to the strip). It was in the local news for months. Every news channel carried the story. It made national news, too. Anybody following Las Vegas had to know that prostitution was not currently legal. There was an actual, sustained debate about it. But somehow you're unaware or forgot.

Grantville, for readers, is the little town where Penn National is located. As many times as I visited Penn National back in my youth (it was about 10 miles from where my wife and I lived for five years), I'm not sure I ever drove through Grantville itself. I think I've been to Penn National once in the last 20 years. So how I recommended a restaurant in Grantville, I have zero idea. You are confusing me with someone else.

Have a great time printing money. I'm a handicapper, not a counterfeiter, by the way.

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It’s not in grantvile it’s near penn national and you most certainly did recommend it. I don’t have time to look it up currently but will later. Just like I don’t keep up on the legality of prostitution in Vegas. There’s only so much time in the day and I try not to waste it.

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You must not have time to proofread your own posts, either. How can you post something like "that piece of shit Italian restaurant you recommended in Grantville" and then say it wasn't in Grantville. The closest city to Penn National is Harrisburg. That's 15 miles, and I didn't recommend any Italian restaurant in Harrisburg, either. In fact, I haven't recommended any Italian restaurants in the state of Pennsylvania.

Let me guess. Next you'll post that the restaurant wasn't within 15 miles of Grantville, it wasn't Italian, and I didn't really recommend it. And I didn't say it was "mobbed up," either. But other than that, you were absolutely correct.

LOL.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

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red, what's your record in the $1000 entry contests?

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He wouldn't even play me in a tournament for 1k where he can make up the rules.

I will give it to him though that he has more to lose given he has some reputation to protect. (granted it is 99% in his head but a fair point)

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Unlike anonymous "APs," handicappers get vetted by outside people. We compete. We win or lose in the light of day, with thousands of eyes on us. We don't post under names like "Seedvalue" -- LOL. We are real people doing real things, being evaluated by the public every day of every week.

We don't get to make stuff up and brag on it. Not that, as Seinfeld says, there's anything wrong with that.

And really, the guy telling swapping stories online doesn't know prostitution in LV is illegal? C'mon, man. Nobody is buying that. Where do you live? Branson?

---

red, what's your record in the $1000 entry contests?

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He wouldn't even play me in a tournament for 1k where he can make up the rules.

I will give it to him though that he has more to lose given he has some reputation to protect. (granted it is 99% in his head but a fair point)

---

Absolutely correct. I made it into Who's Who in Sports Gambling based on the reputation in my head. Billy Walters recruited me because of the reputation in my head. And I finished as the top college football profit handicapper three of the final five years Tipsters or Gypsters published, also due to the reputation in my head. I gave a paper at the National Conference on Gambling and Risk-Taking due to the reputation in my head. I was published in The Humanist ("Scientists, Gamblers, and Magicians") due to the reputation in my head. I won the TopBet NFL contest last season against 1300 people because of, you guessed it, the reputation in my head.

The reputation in my head has really helped me through the course of 50 years of doing this. For example, this year, I'm third in the Northbet Pick the Pros contest out of 500, thanks to the reputation in my head. I am, unfortunately, only 19th out of 900 in Topbet. I blame that on the reputation in my head also.

Meanwhile, accountinquestion is well known because he's chosen a fine nom de plume.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by redietz

Ummmm, I never recommended an Italian restaurant in Grantville. I don't even know any Italian restaurants in Grantville. Is your memory okay, Seed?

Other than that, and the prostitution in Las Vegas thing, you are batting a thousand.

You know what bothers me about that prostitution whiff of yours? A couple of years before the pandemic, the mayor and downtown Las Vegas were floating the idea of legalizing prostitution downtown (as opposed to the strip). It was in the local news for months. Every news channel carried the story. It made national news, too. Anybody following Las Vegas had to know that prostitution was not currently legal. There was an actual, sustained debate about it. But somehow you're unaware or forgot.

Grantville, for readers, is the little town where Penn National is located. As many times as I visited Penn National back in my youth (it was about 10 miles from where my wife and I lived for five years), I'm not sure I ever drove through Grantville itself. I think I've been to Penn National once in the last 20 years. So how I recommended a restaurant in Grantville, I have zero idea. You are confusing me with someone else.

Have a great time printing money. I'm a handicapper, not a counterfeiter, by the way.

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It’s not in grantvile it’s near penn national and you most certainly did recommend it. I don’t have time to look it up currently but will later. Just like I don’t keep up on the legality of prostitution in Vegas. There’s only so much time in the day and I try not to waste it.

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You must not have time to proofread your own posts, either. How can you post something like "that piece of shit Italian restaurant you recommended in Grantville" and then say it wasn't in Grantville. The closest city to Penn National is Harrisburg. That's 15 miles, and I didn't recommend any Italian restaurant in Harrisburg, either. In fact, I haven't recommended any Italian restaurants in the state of Pennsylvania.

Let me guess. Next you'll post that the restaurant wasn't within 15 miles of Grantville, it wasn't Italian, and I didn't really recommend it. And I didn't say it was "mobbed up," either. But other than that, you were absolutely correct.

LOL.

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777 Hollywood Blvd, Grantville, PA 17028
Address

Is the address so now you basically have confirmed to be at best losing your mind.

We can play stupid games by saying it’s technically not a city but a township however the population is north of 7k. In any event you know exactly the place I’m talking about. I will look back when I have time. I was only making 130k a month from those three casinos during the first part of 2022. If you knew about the play and There are people on this board who do then you wouldn’t act so smug. It’s doubtful you make any amount of money betting in these fake contest.

I think you probably ran a illegal book at some point. There were plenty of guys like you back in the day around PA. Certainly nothing special or unique. I don’t even care that or if you such things. Easy money for you I imagine.

And no I hardly ever read or proofread my post. It’s not that important

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

It’s not in grantvile it’s near penn national and you most certainly did recommend it. I don’t have time to look it up currently but will later. Just like I don’t keep up on the legality of prostitution in Vegas. There’s only so much time in the day and I try not to waste it.

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You must not have time to proofread your own posts, either. How can you post something like "that piece of shit Italian restaurant you recommended in Grantville" and then say it wasn't in Grantville. The closest city to Penn National is Harrisburg. That's 15 miles, and I didn't recommend any Italian restaurant in Harrisburg, either. In fact, I haven't recommended any Italian restaurants in the state of Pennsylvania.

Let me guess. Next you'll post that the restaurant wasn't within 15 miles of Grantville, it wasn't Italian, and I didn't really recommend it. And I didn't say it was "mobbed up," either. But other than that, you were absolutely correct.

LOL.

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777 Hollywood Blvd, Grantville, PA 17028
Address

Is the address so now you basically have confirmed to be at best losing your mind.

We can play stupid games by saying it’s technically not a city but a township however the population is north of 7k. In any event you know exactly the place I’m talking about. I will look back when I have time. I was only making 130k a month from those three casinos during the first part of 2022. If you knew about the play and There are people on this board who do then you wouldn’t act so smug. It’s doubtful you make any amount of money betting in these fake contest.

I think you probably ran a illegal book at some point. There were plenty of guys like you back in the day around PA. Certainly nothing special or unique. I don’t even care that or if you such things. Easy money for you I imagine.

And no I hardly ever read or proofread my post. It’s not that important

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Don’t worry I will get to you soon I got some free time end of January. I suspect your a broke fraud. I like to travel

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

red, what's your record in the $1000 entry contests?

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He wouldn't even play me in a tournament for 1k where he can make up the rules.

I will give it to him though that he has more to lose given he has some reputation to protect. (granted it is 99% in his head but a fair point)

---

Absolutely correct. I made it into Who's Who in Sports Gambling based on the reputation in my head. Billy Walters recruited me because of the reputation in my head. And I finished as the top college football profit handicapper three of the final five years Tipsters or Gypsters published, also due to the reputation in my head. I gave a paper at the National Conference on Gambling and Risk-Taking due to the reputation in my head. I was published in The Humanist ("Scientists, Gamblers, and Magicians") due to the reputation in my head. I won the TopBet NFL contest last season against 1300 people because of, you guessed it, the reputation in my head.

The reputation in my head has really helped me through the course of 50 years of doing this. For example, this year, I'm third in the Northbet Pick the Pros contest out of 500, thanks to the reputation in my head. I am, unfortunately, only 19th out of 900 in Topbet. I blame that on the reputation in my head also.

Meanwhile, accountinquestion is well known because he's chosen a fine nom de plume.

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Would you like all that on your tombstone? Or will just a simple "RIP" do?:cool:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Which 1K college football entry contests are you talking about?

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You say you are just a college handicapper but all those free contests you play are NFL:

Heritage Pick the Pros
TopBet NFL
Northbet NFL
The Betonline NFL Contests

You play these free contests. You've bragged for years about your "stellar results" in them. Unfortunately, the free contests pay chickenfeed.

Why wasn't some one of your supposed caliber chasing the big money? Look at Circa Millions this year. $1000 entry, 5300 entries, $6,000,000 prize pool. Just 5300 entries creates a nice overlay all on it's own. But someone with the skills you claim to have should have a huge advantage here. If you are as good as you say you are then most of the field should be dead money to you. This should be massive overlay for someone with your "skills."

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Which 1K college football entry contests are you talking about?

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You say you are just a college handicapper but all those free contests you play are NFL:

Heritage Pick the Pros
TopBet NFL
Northbet NFL
The Betonline NFL Contests

You play these free contests. You've bragged for years about your "stellar results" in them. Unfortunately, the free contests pay chickenfeed.

Why wasn't some one of your supposed caliber chasing the big money? Look at Circa Millions this year. $1000 entry, 5300 entries, $6,000,000 prize pool. Just 5300 entries creates a nice overlay all on it's own. But someone with the skills you claim to have should have a huge advantage here. If you are as good as you say you are then most of the field should be dead money to you. This should be massive overlay for someone with your "skills."

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C'mon, mickey, you knew the obvious answers before you posted this. And I never said I had "stellar" results. So why would you use a word I never used? That's an old Argentino trick. Put a word in quotes. Most people read it as a direct quote, when what you are actually doing is putting it in quotes because they signify your interpretation of something said, therefore not a direct quote at all. Old trick, mickey. Newspapers don't allow it. If you try to put something in direct quotes for a newspaper, it must be an actual direct quote.

So, to the answers you already know. LOL. I think, by the way, that mickey's line, "chasing the big money," is telling. I never chase small money or big money.

1) I'm not Leonardo Da AP. I don't claim to win at everything. Gambling is serious business to me. I play those things at which I think I can win. And my time is limited. Choosing five NFL sides a week is not what I do. Way too many required selections. If NFL totals were included, I'd at least consider it, but still probably not.

2) You've never read a post here where I claim to be an NFL expert.

3) You have read my posts here where I say the NFL is the most difficult of the spread sports.

4) Deciding you have an advantage in contests like Circa or the SuperContest is a fool's errand, because you do not know how many of the entries you are competing against are coordinated and part of a massive mega-entry. So estimates of overlays are a joke and the usual "AP" blowhard-ism without knowing what you're talking about.

5) My co-host always says if you're not the biggest coordinated dog in expensive contests, you should never play. The contests claim to limit entries to a certain number. But have you ever heard of any entries in the SuperContest or Circa being disqualified for coordination? Of course not. To estimate overlays, you would have to declare these coordinations don't exist and have never happened.

6) Multiple entries in contests like this, which are non-random events, do not create a simple arithmetic advantage. The advantage becomes greater and greater the more entries you have. It's called an economy of scale.

7) For example, in the old, relatively cheap, Barbary Coast contest, I shepherded a group of 32 to 64 coordinated entries on a regular basis. The supposed limit for one person was five. Think I was cheating? You should have seen the paper grocery bag filled with entries that arrived on Fridays. A coordinated group of 1100 entries (out of 20K). Think they had an advantage? Think you could decide what overlays existed in this contest without knowing that? Ah, but you're an "AP," using "AP" tools. Your calculations would have been useless.

8) My whole mantra, unlike you, mickey, is staying in my lane. Not pretending to be expert at everything. Not using incorrect math to estimate "EV" or "overlays" when those are just guesses. Classic "AP" garbage. Maybe you guess good, fine, just say, "My best guess" or whatever.

9) As you probably know, I entered a one-week 1K contest back in the day, because it suited me and I liked the week. That contest would have cost more than 3K in 2023 dollars for one week. I go where my best guess takes me.

https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot...nd-edmund.html

10) Time is limited. You should choose paid contests, and I formally recommend this, that suit your skills. I happen to have some skills handicapping NFL games sans spreads. There are no big ticket contests for that.

To summarize, mickey thinks you can estimate overlays using simple math without understanding which entries are coordinated. You cannot. I would never try to do something for substantive money that's not in my wheelhouse. I don't remember the last time I actually bet five NFL sides in a week. Maybe this decade. Maybe not. Unlike mickey, who nonchalantly riffed about playing poker and betting sports for profit in his first GWAE interview, I am not Leonardo Da AP.

Never wanted to be, honestly. Have no interest. Personally, I think the Leonardo Da AP stuff is all snipe hunt.

Thanks for the opportunity, mickey. I would not, by the way, have entered a big-ticket college football contest this season because of the truncated games. I needed to see what effects those cut possessions had in the real world. I can go on for hours regarding this stuff, and I could answer the same questions on camera for you in three weeks. Be there or be square.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Which 1K college football entry contests are you talking about?

---

You say you are just a college handicapper but all those free contests you play are NFL:

Heritage Pick the Pros
TopBet NFL
Northbet NFL
The Betonline NFL Contests

You play these free contests. You've bragged for years about your "stellar results" in them. Unfortunately, the free contests pay chickenfeed.

Why wasn't some one of your supposed caliber chasing the big money? Look at Circa Millions this year. $1000 entry, 5300 entries, $6,000,000 prize pool. Just 5300 entries creates a nice overlay all on it's own. But someone with the skills you claim to have should have a huge advantage here. If you are as good as you say you are then most of the field should be dead money to you. This should be massive overlay for someone with your "skills."

---

C'mon, mickey, you knew the obvious answers before you posted this. And I never said I had "stellar" results. So why would you use a word I never used? That's an old Argentino trick. Put a word in quotes. Most people read it as a direct quote, when what you are actually doing is putting it in quotes because they signify your interpretation of something said, therefore not a direct quote at all. Old trick, mickey. Newspapers don't allow it. If you try to put something in direct quotes for a newspaper, it must be an actual direct quote.

So, to the answers you already know. LOL. I think, by the way, that mickey's line, "chasing the big money," is telling. I never chase small money or big money.

1) I'm not Leonardo Da AP. I don't claim to win at everything. Gambling is serious business to me. I play those things at which I think I can win. And my time is limited. Choosing five NFL sides a week is not what I do. Way too many required selections. If NFL totals were included, I'd at least consider it, but still probably not.

2) You've never read a post here where I claim to be an NFL expert.

3) You have read my posts here where I say the NFL is the most difficult of the spread sports.

4) Deciding you have an advantage in contests like Circa or the SuperContest is a fool's errand, because you do not know how many of the entries you are competing against are coordinated and part of a massive mega-entry. So estimates of overlays are a joke and the usual "AP" blowhard-ism without knowing what you're talking about.

5) My co-host always says if you're not the biggest coordinated dog in expensive contests, you should never play. The contests claim to limit entries to a certain number. But have you ever heard of any entries in the SuperContest or Circa being disqualified for coordination? Of course not. To estimate overlays, you would have to declare these coordinations don't exist and have never happened.

6) Multiple entries in contests like this, which are non-random events, do not create a simple arithmetic advantage. The advantage becomes greater and greater the more entries you have. It's called an economy of scale.

7) For example, in the old, relatively cheap, Barbary Coast contest, I shepherded a group of 32 to 64 coordinated entries on a regular basis. The supposed limit for one person was five. Think I was cheating? You should have seen the paper grocery bag filled with entries that arrived on Fridays. A coordinated group of 1100 entries (out of 20K). Think they had an advantage? Think you could decide what overlays existed in this contest without knowing that? Ah, but you're an "AP," using "AP" tools. Your calculations would have been useless.

8) My whole mantra, unlike you, mickey, is staying in my lane. Not pretending to be expert at everything. Not using incorrect math to estimate "EV" or "overlays" when those are just guesses. Classic "AP" garbage. Maybe you guess good, fine, just say, "My best guess" or whatever.

9) As you probably know, I entered a one-week 1K contest back in the day, because it suited me and I liked the week. That contest would have cost more than 3K in 2023 dollars for one week. I go where my best guess takes me.

https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot...nd-edmund.html

10) Time is limited. You should choose paid contests, and I formally recommend this, that suit your skills. I happen to have some skills handicapping NFL games sans spreads. There are no big ticket contests for that.

To summarize, mickey thinks you can estimate overlays using simple math without understanding which entries are coordinated. You cannot. I would never try to do something for substantive money that's not in my wheelhouse. I don't remember the last time I actually bet five NFL sides in a week. Maybe this decade. Maybe not. Unlike mickey, who nonchalantly riffed about playing poker and betting sports for profit in his first GWAE interview, I am not Leonardo Da AP.

Never wanted to be, honestly. Have no interest. Personally, I think the Leonardo Da AP stuff is all snipe hunt.

Thanks for the opportunity, mickey. I would not, by the way, have entered a big-ticket college football contest this season because of the truncated games. I needed to see what effects those cut possessions had in the real world. I can go on for hours regarding this stuff, and I could answer the same questions on camera for you in three weeks. Be there or be square.

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You can cry and snivel about it all you want but for overall gambling knowledge every AP on this site can run circles around you. You're a weak pathetic fraud with your "opinion" bullshit. And your fascist tendencies shine through. Heil!!

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Which 1K college football entry contests are you talking about?

---

You say you are just a college handicapper but all those free contests you play are NFL:

Heritage Pick the Pros
TopBet NFL
Northbet NFL
The Betonline NFL Contests

You play these free contests. You've bragged for years about your "stellar results" in them. Unfortunately, the free contests pay chickenfeed.

Why wasn't some one of your supposed caliber chasing the big money? Look at Circa Millions this year. $1000 entry, 5300 entries, $6,000,000 prize pool. Just 5300 entries creates a nice overlay all on it's own. But someone with the skills you claim to have should have a huge advantage here. If you are as good as you say you are then most of the field should be dead money to you. This should be massive overlay for someone with your "skills."

---

C'mon, mickey, you knew the obvious answers before you posted this. And I never said I had "stellar" results. So why would you use a word I never used? That's an old Argentino trick. Put a word in quotes. Most people read it as a direct quote, when what you are actually doing is putting it in quotes because they signify your interpretation of something said, therefore not a direct quote at all. Old trick, mickey. Newspapers don't allow it. If you try to put something in direct quotes for a newspaper, it must be an actual direct quote.

So, to the answers you already know. LOL. I think, by the way, that mickey's line, "chasing the big money," is telling. I never chase small money or big money.

1) I'm not Leonardo Da AP. I don't claim to win at everything. Gambling is serious business to me. I play those things at which I think I can win. And my time is limited. Choosing five NFL sides a week is not what I do. Way too many required selections. If NFL totals were included, I'd at least consider it, but still probably not.

2) You've never read a post here where I claim to be an NFL expert.

3) You have read my posts here where I say the NFL is the most difficult of the spread sports.

4) Deciding you have an advantage in contests like Circa or the SuperContest is a fool's errand, because you do not know how many of the entries you are competing against are coordinated and part of a massive mega-entry. So estimates of overlays are a joke and the usual "AP" blowhard-ism without knowing what you're talking about.

5) My co-host always says if you're not the biggest coordinated dog in expensive contests, you should never play. The contests claim to limit entries to a certain number. But have you ever heard of any entries in the SuperContest or Circa being disqualified for coordination? Of course not. To estimate overlays, you would have to declare these coordinations don't exist and have never happened.

6) Multiple entries in contests like this, which are non-random events, do not create a simple arithmetic advantage. The advantage becomes greater and greater the more entries you have. It's called an economy of scale.

7) For example, in the old, relatively cheap, Barbary Coast contest, I shepherded a group of 32 to 64 coordinated entries on a regular basis. The supposed limit for one person was five. Think I was cheating? You should have seen the paper grocery bag filled with entries that arrived on Fridays. A coordinated group of 1100 entries (out of 20K). Think they had an advantage? Think you could decide what overlays existed in this contest without knowing that? Ah, but you're an "AP," using "AP" tools. Your calculations would have been useless.

8) My whole mantra, unlike you, mickey, is staying in my lane. Not pretending to be expert at everything. Not using incorrect math to estimate "EV" or "overlays" when those are just guesses. Classic "AP" garbage. Maybe you guess good, fine, just say, "My best guess" or whatever.

9) As you probably know, I entered a one-week 1K contest back in the day, because it suited me and I liked the week. That contest would have cost more than 3K in 2023 dollars for one week. I go where my best guess takes me.

https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot...nd-edmund.html

10) Time is limited. You should choose paid contests, and I formally recommend this, that suit your skills. I happen to have some skills handicapping NFL games sans spreads. There are no big ticket contests for that.

To summarize, mickey thinks you can estimate overlays using simple math without understanding which entries are coordinated. You cannot. I would never try to do something for substantive money that's not in my wheelhouse. I don't remember the last time I actually bet five NFL sides in a week. Maybe this decade. Maybe not. Unlike mickey, who nonchalantly riffed about playing poker and betting sports for profit in his first GWAE interview, I am not Leonardo Da AP.

Never wanted to be, honestly. Have no interest. Personally, I think the Leonardo Da AP stuff is all snipe hunt.

Thanks for the opportunity, mickey. I would not, by the way, have entered a big-ticket college football contest this season because of the truncated games. I needed to see what effects those cut possessions had in the real world. I can go on for hours regarding this stuff, and I could answer the same questions on camera for you in three weeks. Be there or be square.

---

Here's Walters calculating his EV's.

In his book, Billy Walters has a system for calculating the strength of his plays. It is a "star system" but really just another way of calculating EV. He has a chart called "The Relative Value Of Each Point, NFL." You'll find the chart below. This is the chart that shows the chances of exactly hitting the spread. which we've had on here earlier. His "star system" looks like this. The higher the percentage the more he bets.:

5.5% = .5 star
7% = 1 star
9% = 1.5 stars
11% = 2 stars
13% = 2.5 stars
15% = 3 stars


So if Walters had a power ratings differential of 2.5 and the line is -4 he has a 1.5 star bet. This is how he calculates it. There are two pertinent numbers between his power ratings differential, 2.5, and the -4 line, the numbers 3 and 4. If his team loses by 3 he wins the bet. If his team loses by 4 he pushes the bet.

So from the chart he takes the 8% that the 3 is worth and adds half the value of the 4, 1.5% to it. So at 9.5% its a 1.5 star bet.

"Overall gambling knowledge?" Who wants "overall gambling knowledge??" LOL. I want to win money.

"Overall gambling knowledge" is the purview of people looking for an excuse to gamble 24/7. "Overall gambling knowledge" is how Stu Ungar and Phil Ivey blew through millions of dollars.

I would never enter a big-ticket NFL sides contest. Why would I? It would be like mickey crimm trying use his machine gambling knowledge to win at poker or sports betting.

Mickey should talk to Bob Dancer sometime or watch Magnum Force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4lvLBe6fsE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

My whole mantra, unlike you, mickey, is staying in my lane. Not pretending to be expert at everything. Not using incorrect math to estimate "EV" or "overlays" when those are just guesses. Classic "AP" garbage. Maybe you guess good, fine, just say, "My best guess" or whatever.

---

LOL! at your stupidity. Stay in my own lane? How about you stay in your own lane. You've told us for years that math is no good in sportsbetting, that it's a game of opinion. Then Walter's book comes out and crushes your hypothesis. He's totally mathematical.

One of the things I noticed about you all these years is you never once put up any kind of math problems. Not one equation. No math at all.

Then just a few days ago you showed us just how weak in math you are by saying "Mickey believes an 8-4 record is two games above .500. I'm going to call in on GWAE on that one." You clearly showed that you couldn't figure out that 8-4 is two games above .500.

That's weak, dude. Extremely weak. You tell everyone, "you shouldn't comment on things you know nothing about?" Well, please don't make any more comments about math and EV because you have clearly shown you are severely lacking in math skills.

It's no wonder you had to come out criticizing Walters' handicapping system. It's based on something you know nothing about, mathematics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

You say you are just a college handicapper but all those free contests you play are NFL:

Heritage Pick the Pros
TopBet NFL
Northbet NFL
The Betonline NFL Contests

You play these free contests. You've bragged for years about your "stellar results" in them. Unfortunately, the free contests pay chickenfeed.

Why wasn't some one of your supposed caliber chasing the big money? Look at Circa Millions this year. $1000 entry, 5300 entries, $6,000,000 prize pool. Just 5300 entries creates a nice overlay all on it's own. But someone with the skills you claim to have should have a huge advantage here. If you are as good as you say you are then most of the field should be dead money to you. This should be massive overlay for someone with your "skills."

---

C'mon, mickey, you knew the obvious answers before you posted this. And I never said I had "stellar" results. So why would you use a word I never used? That's an old Argentino trick. Put a word in quotes. Most people read it as a direct quote, when what you are actually doing is putting it in quotes because they signify your interpretation of something said, therefore not a direct quote at all. Old trick, mickey. Newspapers don't allow it. If you try to put something in direct quotes for a newspaper, it must be an actual direct quote.

So, to the answers you already know. LOL. I think, by the way, that mickey's line, "chasing the big money," is telling. I never chase small money or big money.

1) I'm not Leonardo Da AP. I don't claim to win at everything. Gambling is serious business to me. I play those things at which I think I can win. And my time is limited. Choosing five NFL sides a week is not what I do. Way too many required selections. If NFL totals were included, I'd at least consider it, but still probably not.

2) You've never read a post here where I claim to be an NFL expert.

3) You have read my posts here where I say the NFL is the most difficult of the spread sports.

4) Deciding you have an advantage in contests like Circa or the SuperContest is a fool's errand, because you do not know how many of the entries you are competing against are coordinated and part of a massive mega-entry. So estimates of overlays are a joke and the usual "AP" blowhard-ism without knowing what you're talking about.

5) My co-host always says if you're not the biggest coordinated dog in expensive contests, you should never play. The contests claim to limit entries to a certain number. But have you ever heard of any entries in the SuperContest or Circa being disqualified for coordination? Of course not. To estimate overlays, you would have to declare these coordinations don't exist and have never happened.

6) Multiple entries in contests like this, which are non-random events, do not create a simple arithmetic advantage. The advantage becomes greater and greater the more entries you have. It's called an economy of scale.

7) For example, in the old, relatively cheap, Barbary Coast contest, I shepherded a group of 32 to 64 coordinated entries on a regular basis. The supposed limit for one person was five. Think I was cheating? You should have seen the paper grocery bag filled with entries that arrived on Fridays. A coordinated group of 1100 entries (out of 20K). Think they had an advantage? Think you could decide what overlays existed in this contest without knowing that? Ah, but you're an "AP," using "AP" tools. Your calculations would have been useless.

8) My whole mantra, unlike you, mickey, is staying in my lane. Not pretending to be expert at everything. Not using incorrect math to estimate "EV" or "overlays" when those are just guesses. Classic "AP" garbage. Maybe you guess good, fine, just say, "My best guess" or whatever.

9) As you probably know, I entered a one-week 1K contest back in the day, because it suited me and I liked the week. That contest would have cost more than 3K in 2023 dollars for one week. I go where my best guess takes me.

https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot...nd-edmund.html

10) Time is limited. You should choose paid contests, and I formally recommend this, that suit your skills. I happen to have some skills handicapping NFL games sans spreads. There are no big ticket contests for that.

To summarize, mickey thinks you can estimate overlays using simple math without understanding which entries are coordinated. You cannot. I would never try to do something for substantive money that's not in my wheelhouse. I don't remember the last time I actually bet five NFL sides in a week. Maybe this decade. Maybe not. Unlike mickey, who nonchalantly riffed about playing poker and betting sports for profit in his first GWAE interview, I am not Leonardo Da AP.

Never wanted to be, honestly. Have no interest. Personally, I think the Leonardo Da AP stuff is all snipe hunt.

Thanks for the opportunity, mickey. I would not, by the way, have entered a big-ticket college football contest this season because of the truncated games. I needed to see what effects those cut possessions had in the real world. I can go on for hours regarding this stuff, and I could answer the same questions on camera for you in three weeks. Be there or be square.

---

Here's Walters calculating his EV's.

In his book, Billy Walters has a system for calculating the strength of his plays. It is a "star system" but really just another way of calculating EV. He has a chart called "The Relative Value Of Each Point, NFL." You'll find the chart below. This is the chart that shows the chances of exactly hitting the spread. which we've had on here earlier. His "star system" looks like this. The higher the percentage the more he bets.:

5.5% = .5 star
7% = 1 star
9% = 1.5 stars
11% = 2 stars
13% = 2.5 stars
15% = 3 stars


So if Walters had a power ratings differential of 2.5 and the line is -4 he has a 1.5 star bet. This is how he calculates it. There are two pertinent numbers between his power ratings differential, 2.5, and the -4 line, the numbers 3 and 4. If his team loses by 3 he wins the bet. If his team loses by 4 he pushes the bet.

So from the chart he takes the 8% that the 3 is worth and adds half the value of the 4, 1.5% to it. So at 9.5% its a 1.5 star bet.

---

It's his best guess, mickey. LOL. That's what it is. You can dress it up, formalize it any way you want, it's his best guess of non-random events going forward.

You missed some key points here, by the way. Why do you think Walters, who made almost all of his gambling profits betting college football and college hoops, throws an overly formal NFL bone your way?

For God's sake, man, have some brains.

I've gone through every inch of this book. I have comments on just about every paragraph of the two how-to chapters. Walters does, by the way, throw a couple valuable pieces of info to the public. But this isn't one of them.

I assign .7% bankroll per unit for my betting. I've done a version of that since 1980.That doesn't mean I'm using anything other than opinion. What, I'm "estimating EV?" LOL. C'mon, get serious. All of your comments show that your "EV" and the phrase "best guess" are synonymous.

Walters was calculating EV. Every noted sportsbettor uses the term. Fezzik is an actuary and uses the term. If Walters was "just guessing" he couldn't have consistently won. They would have wipe him out. What you won't admit is the EV is there and it doesn't matter that you don't know the exact decimal it falls on.

Please quit commenting on math. You have little aptitude for it.

Mick, no offense, but you're starting to get kewlj syndrome over the "math" and "EV" stuff. We all know you're right, but I'll use an Evenbob term...."Don't wise up the chumps".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Walters was calculating EV. Every noted sportsbettor uses the term. Fezzik is an actuary and uses the term. If Walters was "just guessing" he couldn't have consistently won. They would have wipe him out. What you won't admit is the EV is there and it doesn't matter that you don't know the exact decimal it falls on.

Please quit commenting on math. You have little aptitude for it.

---

Either or both of you are welcome to debate me on the topic on camera. Heuristics is not a math term.

And, actually, when you are talking tenths of percentage points, it does matter when you don't know the exact decimal it falls on. The "APs" think they have precise abilities to determine value, and they don't -- primarily because you shouldn't use the math of random events to calculate non-random events. You can use it for some basic, practical ball-parking, but to think you have any kind of precision is nonsense.

I never said, once again you use quotes inappropriately, that Walters was "just guessing." He has a fine handicapping sense. He employed the best minds in the business. That is not "just guessing." It's the opposite of "just guessing."

Here's a simple question for the two of you. Read the pages mickey posted. What is clearly and obviously missing from the description of the star system? It's so curiously missing, yet it's the primary thing that should accompany the star system description. Once you figure that out, the next step is to figure out why it's not there. What are your hypotheses?

If you don't get the answers to what I just asked in five minutes or less, God Bless you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

"Overall gambling knowledge?" Who wants "overall gambling knowledge??" LOL. I want to win money.

"Overall gambling knowledge" is the purview of people looking for an excuse to gamble 24/7. "Overall gambling knowledge" is how Stu Ungar and Phil Ivey blew through millions of dollars.

I would never enter a big-ticket NFL sides contest. Why would I? It would be like mickey crimm trying use his machine gambling knowledge to win at poker or sports betting.

Mickey should talk to Bob Dancer sometime or watch Magnum Force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4lvLBe6fsE

---

You're an idiot. I don't WANT TO WIN MONEY, I DO WIN MONEY. I rarely have a losing day. It's routine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Walters was calculating EV. Every noted sportsbettor uses the term. Fezzik is an actuary and uses the term. If Walters was "just guessing" he couldn't have consistently won. They would have wipe him out. What you won't admit is the EV is there and it doesn't matter that you don't know the exact decimal it falls on.

Please quit commenting on math. You have little aptitude for it.

---

Either or both of you are welcome to debate me on the topic on camera. Heuristics is not a math term.

And, actually, when you are talking tenths of percentage points, it does matter when you don't know the exact decimal it falls on. The "APs" think they have precise abilities to determine value, and they don't -- primarily because you shouldn't use the math of random events to calculate non-random events. You can use it for some basic, practical ball-parking, but to think you have any kind of precision is nonsense.

I never said, once again you use quotes inappropriately, that Walters was "just guessing." He has a fine handicapping sense. He employed the best minds in the business. That is not "just guessing." It's the opposite of "just guessing."

Here's a simple question for the two of you. Read the pages mickey posted. What is clearly and obviously missing from the description of the star system? It's so curiously missing, yet it's the primary thing that should accompany the star system description. Once you figure that out, the next step is to figure out why it's not there. What are your hypotheses?

If you don't get the answers to what I just asked in five minutes or less, God Bless you.

---

Redietz wrote:

"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. Unreal.
C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said."

Redietz has shown he has a low aptitude in math. Anything he says about the mathematics of sports betting is suspect. I support his right to free speech but his diatribes against gambling math should be considered misinformation.

Mickey, you're undoubtedly correct that I have a low math aptitude.

I only got a 740 on the math portion of the SAT. I'm sure Fezzik and Shack and yourself got much higher.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

I only got a 740 on the math portion of the SAT.

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How'd you do on the other part? I think it has a woke name now, but back then was called verbal.

I'll guess 680 because I see no flaw in your verb game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

I only got a 740 on the math portion of the SAT.

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How'd you do on the other part? I think it has a woke name now, but back then was called verbal.

I'll guess 680 because I see no flaw in your verb game.

---

Got a 710 on the verbal. Resulted in an academic ride, which I needed. Still had some popcorn Tuesdays, but the scholarship provided food the other six days, so no real complaints.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Got a 710 on the verbal. Resulted in an academic ride, which I needed. Still had some popcorn Tuesdays, but the scholarship provided food the other six days, so no real complaints.

---

Exceptional! You definitely present as well educated.

I think I was 600 verbal, and not much higher on math.

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Got a 710 on the verbal. Resulted in an academic ride, which I needed. Still had some popcorn Tuesdays, but the scholarship provided food the other six days, so no real complaints.

---

Exceptional! You definitely present as well educated.

I think I was 600 verbal, and not much higher on math.

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That was very good.

The guy I consult for math and programming got an 800 on the math section.

The good thing when I sit down at a table with him, my better half, and my partner, Del, is that I'm the dumbest guy at the table. But I like it that way. If you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

If you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.

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Intelligence tests are sometimes used in sports. The one I'm aware of is the Wonderlic. Do you have any opinions on its relevance? I think it's often assumed that QBs in particular need high intelligence.

Gotta love a 70 year old guy that repeatedly tell you how smart he was 53 years ago. :rolleyes:

Imagine being so smart that you wind up in bumfuck Tennessee in a shack with unpaid taxes in your golden years. Livin' the dream...RIP

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

If you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.

---

Intelligence tests are sometimes used in sports. The one I'm aware of is the Wonderlic. Do you have any opinions on its relevance? I think it's often assumed that QBs in particular need high intelligence.

---

From what I understand, the Houston QB, who I loved from the beginning (former Ohio State), had goddawful Wonderlic scores. That may actually be why Carolina passed on him, which was a horrible mistake. Not sure how relevant they are in this day and age when film study is so sophisticated that you can see everything for yourself on tape as opposed to going over stats and reading scouting reports. The other thing, to do well on IQ-type tests, I think you have to be motivated to do well. Not sure how motivated a multi-millionaire QB is to focus on a written test at which he isn't much good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Gotta love a 70 year old guy that repeatedly tell you how smart he was 53 years ago. :rolleyes:

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Gotta love a blackjack card counter who subtracts 17 from 66 and winds up with 53.

Glad you were precise there, kewlJ. Your math skills support your narrative like anonymity supports fairy tales.

LOL. Next time anyone needs to figure EV, be sure to hire kewlJ. He's the master with a sliderule.

I went first.

https://beatthewonderlic.com/take-a-...c-test-online/

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/im...BJRU5ErkJggg==


Scroll down to the green "START QUIZ" button. It's a 12-minute test.

I scored Josh Allen :D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Gotta love a 70 year old guy that repeatedly tell you how smart he was 53 years ago. :rolleyes:

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Gotta love a blackjack card counter who subtracts 17 from 66 and winds up with 53.

---

Ok, I went back and looked:. I thought you had told me you were 70 in that discussion at GF where you said you started receiving social security and didn't seem to know exactly how much because it is direct deposited and you don't look (which makes no sense). But I don't see where you said 70, so I guess that is my mistake.

NO MATTER....53 years ago or 49 years ago, you are resting on your laurels on something from half a century ago. :rolleyes:

The real measuring stick is what you have done with your education and "smarts" that you insist you have. I have no idea what kind of money you have made, but you seem to reside in a very modest house (and that's ok) and for whatever reason, seem to be having difficulty paying your taxes on it. So....??

And look, the only reason we even KNOW this tax information, is because you posted your street address, about 100 times. For what reason, I have no idea???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Gotta love a 70 year old guy that repeatedly tell you how smart he was 53 years ago. :rolleyes:

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Gotta love a blackjack card counter who subtracts 17 from 66 and winds up with 53.

Glad you were precise there, kewlJ. Your math skills support your narrative like anonymity supports fairy tales.

LOL. Next time anyone needs to figure EV, be sure to hire kewlJ. He's the master with a sliderule.

---

Hey red, if you think that's bad check out this guy's math. Funnier than shit. How could anyone be so dense? Oh, that was you.

"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. Unreal.

C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.

'Nuff "

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Got a 710 on the verbal. Resulted in an academic ride, which I needed. Still had some popcorn Tuesdays, but the scholarship provided food the other six days, so no real complaints.

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Exceptional! You definitely present as well educated.

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Educated idiot

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Gotta love a 70 year old guy that repeatedly tell you how smart he was 53 years ago. :rolleyes:

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Gotta love a blackjack card counter who subtracts 17 from 66 and winds up with 53.

---

Ok, I went back and looked:. I thought you had told me you were 70 in that discussion at GF where you said you started receiving social security and didn't seem to know exactly how much because it is direct deposited and you don't look (which makes no sense). But I don't see where you said 70, so I guess that is my mistake.

NO MATTER....53 years ago or 49 years ago, you are resting on your laurels on something from half a century ago. :rolleyes:

The real measuring stick is what you have done with your education and "smarts" that you insist you have. I have no idea what kind of money you have made, but you seem to reside in a very modest house (and that's ok) and for whatever reason, seem to be having difficulty paying your taxes on it. So....??

And look, the only reason we even KNOW this tax information, is because you posted your street address, about 100 times. For what reason, I have no idea???

---

"I thought you had told me." "I guess that is my mistake." LOL.

Have you considered being halfway correct before typing, kewlJ? Or does that require too much time? Too much discipline? And really, the dude who was 25 games over .500 and blew it all to work through a bonus has zero business telling anybody else what to do with their money. It's comical. Sad and embarrassing, but comical.

Have you even bothered to address the fact that attempting to apply EV to non-random events based on the probability formulas of random events is, at best, imprecise (rendering it both guessing and borderline useless), and at worst, completely asinine? In other words, the trick question -- how do a football game and a coin flip differ? The answer: in every way imaginable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

I went first.

https://beatthewonderlic.com/take-a-...c-test-online/

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/im...BJRU5ErkJggg==


Scroll down to the green "START QUIZ" button. It's a 12-minute test.

I scored Josh Allen :D.

---

I will take a crack at this Monday. Looking forward to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

I will take a crack at this Monday. Looking forward to it.

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I would describe my 37 as vulnerable. It's a timed test allowing less than 15 seconds per question on average. I was surprised to get tripped up on some of the math questions. The complexity was a bit much for the time pressure, so I guessed at a couple to avoid running out of time. If you gave me unlimited time, I think I could have scored 38 easy.

In the NFL, I understand the Wonderlic has been replaced by the S2 which tops out at 100 instead of 50. Rumored high achievers at the S2 include Brock Purdy and Bryce Young.

Just gave it a shot. Good? Bad? Who knows?

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Originally Posted by The Boz

Just gave it a shot. Good? Bad? Who knows?

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I think anything over 36 is elite :o.

The smartest person, likely, is the one who says shove it. I mean, were the people who write up iq tests, or, the ones who blindly take them, smart, then they would be doing something really neat instead. Ha.

My first conclusion would be that the people who ran out of time didn't stop to think to skip the longer questions, which involve two simple calculations instead of one, or, that many of the questions repeat on the next try. However, it's something for the casino AP's. Ha.

Quote:

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All About the Wonderlic Test: A Common but Challenging Pre-Employment Test

Applying to jobs can be an unpredictable process. Some jobs require only a couple of interviews before you pass, while others might even ask you to make impromptu presentations or analyze case studies. For graduate-level roles, aptitude tests are already a common screening method at the start of applications. One of the most popular of these is the Wonderlic test. If your potential employer has told you that you’ll be taking the Wonderlic test for your next step, then it’s essential to be prepared--after all, it’s difficult for test-takers to pass this without practice.


What is the Wonderlic Test?

The Wonderlic test is a cognitive ability test for job applicants that’s similar to an IQ test. Its parent company, Wonderlic Inc., actually has different types of tests, but what people usually mean by “Wonderlic test” is the Wonderlic Personnel or Wonderlic Cognitive Ability Test. Questions are presented in multiple-choice format. The test is normally taken online, from the convenience of your home, but you might also be invited to take it directly in your potential employer’s office.

You’re likely to encounter the standard version of the test, which consists of 50 questions that you have to answer in 12 minutes. There’s also a shorter version that only has 30 questions--but your time limit is only 8 minutes.

While the questions in the Wonderlic aren’t necessarily difficult on their own, it’s the time pressure that makes the test so hard to beat. You have to answer around four questions every minute. Some of these might even need math calculations that you have to perform in your head because calculators aren’t allowed.

For each correct answer, you get a point, so the maximum score for the standard version is 50. Surprisingly, the average score is only 21 out of 50. Even finishing it is a challenge--only 2-3% of test-takers finish the exam!


Questions in a Wonderlic Test
The questions in a Wonderlic test are diverse and mainly focused on your reasoning skills. Here’s what you can expect to see:


General Knowledge

General knowledge questions are the easiest. You can take advantage of these by answering them quickly without sacrificing accuracy, leaving more time for the other questions. For example, you might be asked to order dates or identify what well-known terms such as “FAQ” mean.

Abstract Reasoning

These questions test your spatial recognition, including your ability to visualize objects. A popular question involves studying a diagram of a flattened cube and figuring out which sides are adjacent when it’s folded into a cube. Another is looking at a series of images then deducing the next image in the sequence.


Logical Reasoning

These questions evaluate how you use inductive and deductive logic. You’re presented with several statements, and you have to make a conclusion based on those statements. These can be tricky, so it’s important to double-check your answers.


Verbal Reasoning

With verbal reasoning questions, you select synonyms or antonyms, determine the relationship between two words, or complete a sentence with the grammatically correct answer. You might also have to make analogies or choose the odd word out from the choices.


Numerical Reasoning

These are usually the toughest questions in the exam. They often show up as problems that require you to perform several arithmetic calculations. Percentages and ratios also appear frequently. You might have to pick corresponding graphs for data tables as well.


How to Prepare for a Wonderlic Test
Your performance in the Wonderlic test can determine whether you’ll move on to the next stage of your application. Given the low passing rate for the test, this means that you have to devote some time to studying it. These tips will help you get a higher score:


Take a practice test

The first step is to jump into it right away by taking a practice test. This will give you a good idea of what the Wonderlic test is like and what your current performance on it is.


Review questions

Once you have a baseline, look back at your wrong answers and study them. It also helps to keep reviewing similar math questions until your speed improves.


Take a timed practice test

When you’re confident that you can answer most questions correctly, work on your speed by taking timed practice tests until it becomes second nature to you.

https://www.wikijob.co.uk/content/ap...onderlic-tests

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1Hit1der 1Hit1der is online now
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Originally Posted by 1Hit1der

Even finishing it is a challenge--only 2-3% of test-takers finish the exam!

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That's surprising. I watched the clock to stay on pace. Maybe in some formats the clock isn't displayed?

Tableplay's 39 was time-impaired.

I haven't looked to see whether the questions repeat on subsequent attempts. But if I could repeat the same questions, I think I'd need a few tries to get into the 40s.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1Hit1der

My first conclusion would be that the people who ran out of time didn't stop to think to skip the longer questions, which involve two simple calculations instead of one, or, that many of the questions repeat on the next try. However, it's something for the casino AP's. Ha.

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Great point Bill. Absolutely I should have just cut and run since you don't get penalized for wrong answers (50 correct questions is 50 points). Bad strategy = bad score. That fucked me up in school too since I spent too much time to get an answer right on all those exams over all those years.

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1Hit1der

Even finishing it is a challenge--only 2-3% of test-takers finish the exam!

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That's surprising. I watched the clock to stay on pace. Maybe in some formats the clock isn't displayed?

Tableplay's 39 was time-impaired.

I haven't looked to see whether the questions repeat on subsequent attempts. But if I could repeat the same questions, I think I'd need a few tries to get into the 40s.

---

The clock was displayed in my case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

C'mon, mickey, you knew the obvious answers before you posted this. And I never said I had "stellar" results. So why would you use a word I never used? That's an old Argentino trick. Put a word in quotes. Most people read it as a direct quote, when what you are actually doing is putting it in quotes because they signify your interpretation of something said, therefore not a direct quote at all. Old trick, mickey. Newspapers don't allow it. If you try to put something in direct quotes for a newspaper, it must be an actual direct quote.

So, to the answers you already know. LOL. I think, by the way, that mickey's line, "chasing the big money," is telling. I never chase small money or big money.

1) I'm not Leonardo Da AP. I don't claim to win at everything. Gambling is serious business to me. I play those things at which I think I can win. And my time is limited. Choosing five NFL sides a week is not what I do. Way too many required selections. If NFL totals were included, I'd at least consider it, but still probably not.

8) My whole mantra, unlike you, mickey, is staying in my lane. Not pretending to be expert at everything. Not using incorrect math to estimate "EV" or "overlays" when those are just guesses. Classic "AP" garbage. Maybe you guess good, fine, just say, "My best guess" or whatever. You nonchalantly riffed about playing poker and betting sports for profit in your first GWAE interview, I am not Leonardo Da AP.

---

You've bragged incessantly about good results in these free contests that pay chickenfeed. So why are you arguing over a word like steller? Just more strawman bullshit.

2). You are not "chasing the big money" but you ARE chasing the small money in the free contests. "Chasing the money" is just an expression. Nothing to write a diatribe about.

3). That GWAE interview in 2017 was not my first, it was my 2nd. I never said anything about sportsbetting. This is more made up shit from you like the 8-4 thing. But the 8-4 thing was comical as hell because you made a fool of yourself. That's why you've never said anything about it since. You think if you ignore it then it will go away. You'll never live it down. You blundered big time, dude. It shows your lack of competence in gambling math.

Now as for me talking about poker in that interview I will address it in a different post.

Redietz wrote:

"My whole mantra, unlike you, mickey, is staying in my lane. Not pretending to be expert at everything. Not using incorrect math to estimate "EV" or "overlays" when those are just guesses. Classic "AP" garbage. Maybe you guess good, fine, just say, "My best guess" or whatever. You nonchalantly riffed about playing poker and betting sports for profit in your first GWAE interview, I am not Leonardo Da AP."
____________________________

Imagine that. A machine player getting out of his lane by playing poker? Something the mathematically challenged redietz would never do. In gambling Ditz is a one trick pony. He doesn't get how all gambling is related. He thinks if you are good in one discipline you can't be good in another. That is all based in his ignorance of the mathematics.

First, I wasn't a machine pro that started playing poker. I was a poker player that started playing machines. I played poker in the mountain states for 4 years before I played machines. I beat the spread limit games as opposed to the split limit games. Good players always got the money in spread limit, different story in split limit. Bad players got bigger payoffs in split limit when they caught the joker on the end so it balanced things out between good players and bad players. Bad SPREAD LIMIT players didn't have that luxury. They were always getting the wrong price. That's why good spread limit players always got the money.

I constantly studied the mathematics of a deck of cards in those days. Became very efficient at combinatorial math as related to a deck of cards. It's a doctrine in probability theory called "Combinations and Permutations."

The spread limit games were drying up by 1996. The houses would rather spread split limit to keep the money going around and around and down the gator hole. So I was looking for something else.

So, luckily, in 1996, I ran into advantage slots and advantage video poker. So how does one gain an advantage in video poker? Well, by golly, it's by being knowledgeable in a doctrine in probability theory called "Combinations and Permutations" as related to a deck of cards.

Wow, Ditz! Imagine that. Live poker and video poker are relative. I used my knowledge of the math of live poker to beat video poker. Pretty smart, eh?

This is something that the math challenged Dietz doesn't get. The fundamental of all gambling games is the math. The branch of mathematics known as Probability Theory was founded in the 17th century by dice gamblers asking noted mathematicians to work out probabilities for them.

Dietz, all casino games are related through the math. A person knowledgeable in the math of gambling is not "jumping lanes" when he switches to another gambling game but rather is in the same lane. Probability is the fundamental of all casino games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

I will take a crack at this Monday. Looking forward to it.

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How did you do? Ha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Boz

Just gave it a shot. Good? Bad? Who knows?

---

LOL. That figures. I got a 38, too. I ran out of time on that last question, which I knew, but no cigar.

Remind me to not bet on IQ tests with you guys. What surprised me was the speed necessary to do this. Maybe that's the biggest difference between me at 66 and me at 17. I just don't process info as fast.

I gotta admit -- the folding the squares questions stopped me in my tracks. I have no idea if I got them right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

LOL. That figures. I got a 38, too.

---

Quote:

---

I just don't process info as fast.

---

It wasn't a fair fight. On an IQ test, you would have benefited (a lot) from an age adjustment.

Here's what scientists say:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_...d_intelligence

General intelligence is divided into fluid (new stuff) and crystallized (learned stuff). Fluid falls off sharply. Stats:

https://metafact.io/factcheck_answers/2355

Fluid score for a 21-year-old is 100 which is the peak. For a 66-year-old, it's down to 83!

Crystallized peaks at 100 a little later into adulthood, and eases down to 96 for a 66-year-old.

Overall IQ decline is a blend of the two factors. Age 21 is 100; age 66 is 90.

Back to sports, considering someone like Tom Brady or Drew Brees playing into their 40s, they may have been mentally disadvantaged in addition to the physical deterioration.

Einstein refused to take an iq test.

Quote:

---

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

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About wealth,

Quote:

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“I am absolutely convinced that no wealth in the world can help humanity forward, even in the hands of the most devoted worker in this cause. The example of great and pure characters is the only thing that can produce fine ideas and noble deeds.”

---

Einstein spoke more French than English, but, stuck mostly to German. Other languages made him quite nervous. I don't think that he spoke in big words, either, but, he did fill out his ideas.

And, oddly enough, his lines don't seem to yield any neat anagrams. Ha. Might mean a different propensity for the alphabet than found in normal speech, or, to do with the translations from normal speech.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don Perignom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

LOL. That figures. I got a 38, too.

---

Quote:

---

I just don't process info as fast.

---

It wasn't a fair fight. On an IQ test, you would have benefited (a lot) from an age adjustment.

Here's what scientists say:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_...d_intelligence

General intelligence is divided into fluid (new stuff) and crystallized (learned stuff). Fluid falls off sharply. Stats:

https://metafact.io/factcheck_answers/2355

Fluid score for a 21-year-old is 100 which is the peak. For a 66-year-old, it's down to 83!

Crystallized peaks at 100 a little later into adulthood, and eases down to 96 for a 66-year-old.

Overall IQ decline is a blend of the two factors. Age 21 is 100; age 66 is 90.

Back to sports, considering someone like Tom Brady or Drew Brees playing into their 40s, they may have been mentally disadvantaged in addition to the physical deterioration.

---

Well, that and getting brained by a 300 pound defensive tackle every other game.

I didn't know the age adjustment stuff. Thanks for pointing it out. What I found daunting was the time limit. I don't remember IQ tests, or SATs or Iowa Basic Skills tests ever being a time issue for me. I should have, as OneHit suggested, just skipped a few of the questions. As Dirty Harry says and I often quote, "a man's gotta know his limitations." I really had too little respect for the time limit per question.

It was eye opening to see the time run out. I haven't taken IQ-type tests in ages and ages. I think I'll occasionally tackle some just to force myself to go mentally faster. That was what struck me. How I didn't process things fast and that the time limit was a distraction throughout.

Here's my snarky observation -- and maybe why "WTF" while watching NFL games is coming into my vocabulary on an increasing basis. As brain damaged as a QB might be at the age of 35 on up, the people making the calls these days are usually retired NFL players coaching the teams. Well, then you have brain damaged plus older than the QBs as coaches, so really mentally deficient. LOL. I hate to say it, but the more brain-damaged are leading the less brain damaged.

I did not know fluid fell off like that. Jesus! That is truly frightening. I think maybe I didn't WANT to know that. Now I have to compare myself to my youth and know I'm a current idiot. That's depressing. On the other hand, now I have excuses galore for being an idiot.

Coincidentally, I was talking to a famous retired bookmaker the other day, and we both got into it about our mental drop-off regarding what we can no longer do. He used to be able to feed slightly different lines to a dozen people simultaneously over phones and hold in his mind what numbers he gave to whom for literally 50 games. I could once spend 20 or 30 minutes with the box score pages of the LA Times on a Sunday and then have people test me regarding the college stats. I didn't have an eidetic memory, but I had a real good memory. I'd be within 10-20 yards for almost every stat. I can't do that any longer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

I did not know fluid fell off like that. Jesus! That is truly frightening. I think maybe I didn't WANT to know that.

---

LOL sorry. I'm only about a decade behind you, so same fate for me. But those are averages. If you started at a high level, you would presumably remain well above average for your age group.

Quote:

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I hate to say it, but the more brain-damaged are leading the less brain damaged.

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I don't know much about football or its culture, but it seems to have an anti-intellectual streak. Decisions evolve mostly through trial-and-error instead of analytics. I saw a stat showing drastic reduction in field goal attempts within 19 yards. Unless there was a relevant rule change I'm missing, they probably shouldn't have needed decades to figure that out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

I did not know fluid fell off like that. Jesus! That is truly frightening. I think maybe I didn't WANT to know that.

---

LOL sorry. I'm only about a decade behind you, so same fate for me. But those are averages. If you started at a high level, you would presumably remain well above average for your age group.

Quote:

---

I hate to say it, but the more brain-damaged are leading the less brain damaged.

---

I don't know much about football or its culture, but it seems to have an anti-intellectual streak. Decisions evolve mostly through trial-and-error instead of analytics. I saw a stat showing drastic reduction in field goal attempts within 19 yards. Unless there was a relevant rule change I'm missing, they probably shouldn't have needed decades to figure that out.

---

The problem with those "analytics," as they're called, is that they are lumped, cumulative stats -- somewhat useful in a league like the NFL, but almost worthless in college football. It's fine to say, "fourth-and-three" is a go-for-it down on the opposition 15-yard-line, but there's quite a difference between facing Kent State and Georgia, and the analytics being used don't discern those differences.

I lost a couple thousand dollars in a handicapping competition once because Rick Kotite, coaching the Eagles, couldn't add. Sorry ass stuff.

https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot...g-in-rain.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Redietz wrote:

"My whole mantra, unlike you, mickey, is staying in my lane. Not pretending to be expert at everything. Not using incorrect math to estimate "EV" or "overlays" when those are just guesses. Classic "AP" garbage. Maybe you guess good, fine, just say, "My best guess" or whatever. You nonchalantly riffed about playing poker and betting sports for profit in your first GWAE interview, I am not Leonardo Da AP."
____________________________

Imagine that. A machine player getting out of his lane by playing poker? Something the mathematically challenged redietz would never do. In gambling Ditz is a one trick pony. He doesn't get how all gambling is related. He thinks if you are good in one discipline you can't be good in another. That is all based in his ignorance of the mathematics.

First, I wasn't a machine pro that started playing poker. I was a poker player that started playing machines. I played poker in the mountain states for 4 years before I played machines. I beat the spread limit games as opposed to the split limit games. Good players always got the money in spread limit, different story in split limit. Bad players got bigger payoffs in split limit when they caught the joker on the end so it balanced things out between good players and bad players. Bad SPREAD LIMIT players didn't have that luxury. They were always getting the wrong price. That's why good spread limit players always got the money.

I constantly studied the mathematics of a deck of cards in those days. Became very efficient at combinatorial math as related to a deck of cards. It's a doctrine in probability theory called "Combinations and Permutations."

The spread limit games were drying up by 1996. The houses would rather spread split limit to keep the money going around and around and down the gator hole. So I was looking for something else.

So, luckily, in 1996, I ran into advantage slots and advantage video poker. So how does one gain an advantage in video poker? Well, by golly, it's by being knowledgeable in a doctrine in probability theory called "Combinations and Permutations" as related to a deck of cards.

Wow, Ditz! Imagine that. Live poker and video poker are relative. I used my knowledge of the math of live poker to beat video poker. Pretty smart, eh?

This is something that the math challenged Dietz doesn't get. The fundamental of all gambling games is the math. The branch of mathematics known as Probability Theory was founded in the 17th century by dice gamblers asking noted mathematicians to work out probabilities for them.

Dietz, all casino games are related through the math. A person knowledgeable in the math of gambling is not "jumping lanes" when he switches to another gambling game but rather is in the same lane. Probability is the fundamental of all casino games.

---

I didn't have a computer or any way to calculate VP when I started. I knew that 9/6 jacks was 99.54 and FPDW was 100.7, card counting was about a 1-2% advantage, and progressive slots and VP were good, but I couldn't afford to play those games. $20 was a lot of money to me, luckily for me I always had a Job where my meals were free.

With Flush Attack I didn't need any math to clearly see it was a huge +EV situation. The first time I played it was a few-hour session and I made a whopping $70. It wasn't the amount of money I made that thrilled me, it was the why and how I made that $70. I hit nothing good other than a few flushes during Attack mode. Once I factored in the low bankroll needed I could see the potential and taste the freedom. It was many months later, perhaps a year when Card Player Magazine published the exact numbers and strategy. I wasn't far off on the strategy or my estimation.
After a few obviously good promotions having to wing strategies and estimating values, I realized I needed a computer and some VP software. My first VP software was inaccurate when cross-referenceed with whatever I found published.

I finally got a copy of VP tutor, it took like 48 hours to run a game. I spent hours making my own strategies checking each had individually. The next computer I purchased got calculating games down to an hour.

I remember how thrilled I was when I got a laptop that did it in 15 minutes(a huge investment close to 4k). Now I could run out to my car and calculate games or situations on the fly. Eventually, a portable printer so I could print my own "payroll checks"

Whenever it came to reel slots there was a substantial amount of educated guessing on the values.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I didn't have a computer or any way to calculate VP when I started. I knew that 9/6 jacks was 99.54 and FPDW was 100.7, card counting was about a 1-2% advantage, and progressive slots and VP were good, but I couldn't afford to play those games. $20 was a lot of money to me, luckily for me I always had a Job where my meals were free.

With Flush Attack I didn't need any math to clearly see it was a huge +EV situation. The first time I played it was a few-hour session and I made a whopping $70. It wasn't the amount of money I made that thrilled me, it was the why and how I made that $70. I hit nothing good other than a few flushes during Attack mode. Once I factored in the low bankroll needed I could see the potential and taste the freedom. It was many months later, perhaps a year when Card Player Magazine published the exact numbers and strategy. I wasn't far off on the strategy or my estimation.
After a few obviously good promotions having to wing strategies and estimating values, I realized I needed a computer and some VP software. My first VP software was inaccurate when cross-referenceed with whatever I found published.

I finally got a copy of VP tutor, it took like 48 hours to run a game. I spent hours making my own strategies checking each had individually. The next computer I purchased got calculating games down to an hour.

I remember how thrilled I was when I got a laptop that did it in 15 minutes(a huge investment close to 4k). Now I could run out to my car and calculate games or situations on the fly. Eventually, a portable printer so I could print my own "payroll checks"

Whenever it came to reel slots there was a substantial amount of educated guessing on the values.

---

I didn't computerize until 2002. For video poker I did everything with a calculator and scratch pad, except for the few games you could buy strategy cards for.

I remember that Lenny Frome article on Flush Attack in Card Player Magazine.

I did my first empirical study on a slot machine in 96/97. It was on my first slot play, the quarter Piggy Bankin' game. I started out playing when there was at least 50 coins in the bank. Since I was making a healthy profit I kept lowering the number. I wondered just how low I could go so I collected stats on 20K spins.

The main game had a 69% return.
The bank averaged breaking every 90 spins.
The Piggy Bank started at 10 coins so was worth 10/90 = 11.1%
1 unit was added to the bank every 11 spins, 1/11 = 9.1%
That totals to a payback of 89.2%
So a bank with 21 coins in it put the game at 100% plus 9% meter movement. I stayed well above 21 coins in the bank.

A few years later par sheet information showed the quarter pigs returned 89%, which was the number I came up with. I've been using the same methodology on slots ever since. When you don't have any other information an empirical study is called for.