Clark County passes law against standing on pedestrian bridges... but it's mainly aimed at the homeless and obnoxious solicitors

Clark County commissioners unanimously passed an ordinance this month banning people from "stopping, standing or engaging in an activity that causes another person to stop" on Strip pedestrian bridges.

Some outlets are reporting on this in a panic. "OMG they're gonna fine tourists $1000 for stopping to take pics of the strip!"

But that's not the case. VitalVegas actually does a good job of explaining this: https://www.casino.org/vitalvegas/do...-isnt-for-you/

In short, this is a law borne from preventing people from watching the F1 race for free from pedestrian bridges, but it's presently aimed at finally taking control of the problematic homeless/solicitor/scammer situation which has been long plaguing these pedestrian bridges.

This allows them to chase away, cite, or arrest people standing on the bridge panhandling, giving out those obnoxious hooker cards, performing (with expected tips), or scamming. It also allows them to get rid of the homeless lying or sitting on the ground.

Clark County posted a tweet sort of clarifying this being the case:

https://twitter.com/ClarkCountyNV/st...72938618425611


Hilariously, they used a pic from what looks like the mid-1990s with the post. They couldn't find a photo of people on a bridge or escalator from more recent times?

I actually support this. The street vendors, buskers, and others have become very aggressive and scammy. Time to put a stop to all this. As long as they're not going to abuse the law to chase away pedestrians stopping to take pictures, I'm okay with it.

I'd also love for them to clamp down upon these fake "showgirls" who pressure people to take pictures with them, and then demand huge tips, with the threat of having people "beaten up by their boyfriends" if they don't comply.

Not only that, but the people who post the pictures of them with the "showgirls" on social media, expecting accolades, tend to get trolled by people mocking them for being rubes who were scammed. So the whole thing just leads to people having a bad experience and not wanting to come back to Vegas.

Over the years I have gotten to know a few of those showgirls. Not from meeting them on the job, but just Vegas girls who told me that they had tried the showgirl bit. Their office where the girls meet is right up Spring Mountain, heading west from the Strip, on the left side, in that little business park just before all the restaurants, one time while I driving with one of the girls she pointed it out to me. The girls meet there, get their costumes which they have to pay rent for for the day, and then basically get to keep whatever they make in tips.

I always assumed that the target tip was $20., but one of the girls told me, Oh no! we always tried to get a hundred, because two of us would have to split it. Well, now that I know they expect a $100. tip, I'm definitely staying away from them. I assumed that if I wanted to just hand them $20. (without taking any pics at all) they would be happy, but...I guess not! (I do that sometimes with the kids selling candy, I just hand them a few dollars and tell them I don't want any candy - I mean at least those kids are offering something not just straight begging.)

I tend to get approached by them because I am usually dressed very well, and they assume I'm a good mark, when I am walking alone, but none of them has ever harassed me, the worst was just one time when two of them somewhat cornered me and started pulling a little on my arms, but nothing too bothersome.

You have to admit that many of them don't look good at all in their outfits, but are trying to pull it off, while some really do look pretty enticing.

I am sure that real showgirls (the few that are left) look down on these Vegas Strip showgirls. For one thing, real showgirls are always tall, and not all of those Vegas Strip showgirls are tall.

Sometimes when I see them by the Sands Bridge between Wynn and Venetian, I think about that madman who stabbed one of them to death, and that's when I'm thinking of just handing one $20. just because I start feeling some empathy for her.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Clark County commissioners unanimously passed an ordinance this month banning people from "stopping, standing or engaging in an activity that causes another person to stop" on Strip pedestrian bridges.

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Well then, UNKewlJ is going to have to think of something else to do between hustling inside the casinos.

https://i.imgur.com/pb4srmsl.jpg

I wouldn't mind the Showgirl hustle if it were clear to tourists how much they were paying to get those pictures.

But often the girls don't say anything about needing to pay at all. They approach you in a very friendly manner, offer to take a picture with you, and suddenly they're demanding $50 each. If you don't pay what they want, you start receiving threats that their boyfriends are going to come over and beat you up. Sometimes if the person taking the picture with them is another female (and not with any males), the girls will direclty thrreaten to beat her up themselves.

In general, I hate anything where a person is conned into "buying" a service where the price is actually far more than they'd ever expect, especially if intimidation is used to force them to pay.

Given that most of these showgirl are shady and operate in the fashion described above, the county should just do away with the whole thing entirely.

MDawg, you're also correct that a lot of these girls don't look very good, anyway. Real showgirls tend be tall and beautiful. A lot of times the ones you see in the outfits on the street are short, heavy, and plain. But that's not the problem here. I don't really care how they look, only the shady way in which they operate.

In general, I hate the "street performance is a form of speech" argument, because this type of "performance" is often about money -- and it often devolves into scamming, obscenity, and intimidation. The city/county can and should put a stop to this as a matter of controlling public nuisance. This is different than suppressing actual speech, which I agree should always be allowed in public spaces. It is easy to separate the two, because public speech does not involve commerce, whereas street hustling always does. Ban the latter and not the former.

Someone should write a book about things to avoid while you're in Vegas. With the anecdotes from Druff. Would probably be a bestseller. Ha.

Zeus knows this is welcomed news but I really want them to start issuing the citation to the lows-life that insist on smoking their nasty, stinking weed in public, hey hey!!!!

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Originally Posted by MDawg

the worst was just one time when two of them somewhat cornered me and started pulling a little on my arms, but nothing too bothersome.

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My last interaction with a pair of "showgirls" was a bit more aggressive. My wife and friend got ahead of me so they probably thought I was by myself. One girl hooked my right arm and held it tightly and then the other quickly came to my other side and did the same. They essentially immobilized and detained me. Granted I could have overpowered them but I preferred to keep the interaction light so I just called out that these girls had me. Wasn't a big deal but definitely far more assertive behavior than I'd seen in the past from these types. Wouldn't have a hard time believing the scam you guys describe is accurate.

Hopefully this will prevent them from having to obscure the view on the bridges with that obnoxious opaque film during F1 events.
Obviously the whole thing comes down to how intensely they enforce it. Will it be used just to remove those who are actively causing issues or will they really make an effort to keep anyone from ever loitering on the bridges? Because if it's selectively enforced then it may not amount to much.

I guess that means not even legitimate buskers? No license available... ?

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I guess that means not even legitimate buskers? No license available... ?

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I don't think any of them have licenses. They all just "perform" and hide behind the free speech "right" to do so.

I am a very pro -free-speech guy. Always have been, even when that wasn't a cool position to take amongst Republicans.

But this isn't what I consider speech. Anything being done for profit is probably not speech, and of course once money gets into it, all kinds of scams and unethical behavior comes with it.

Would love to see some kind of ordinance passed where it is illegal to demand tips for any kind of public street "performance", and that the price of any service needs to be clearly stated up front. Then run a few undercover officers into these spaces, start handing out steep citations, and the problems will quickly go away.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I guess that means not even legitimate buskers? No license available... ?

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I don't think any of them have licenses. They all just "perform" and hide behind the free speech "right" to do so.

I am a very pro -free-speech guy. Always have been, even when that wasn't a cool position to take amongst Republicans.

But this isn't what I consider speech. Anything being done for profit is probably not speech, and of course once money gets into it, all kinds of scams and unethical behavior comes with it.

Would love to see some kind of ordinance passed where it is illegal to demand tips for any kind of public street "performance", and that the price of any service needs to be clearly stated up front. Then run a few undercover officers into these spaces, start handing out steep citations, and the problems will quickly go away.

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When I say buskers I am not talking about those demanding money. I am thinking guys with a hat in front playing an instrument or whatever. No sales. No giving away merchandise.

The guys who perform but hype it up for 20 minutes getting donations then making them wait are borderline.

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Originally Posted by jdog

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Originally Posted by MDawg

the worst was just one time when two of them somewhat cornered me and started pulling a little on my arms, but nothing too bothersome.

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My last interaction with a pair of "showgirls" was a bit more aggressive. My wife and friend got ahead of me so they probably thought I was by myself. One girl hooked my right arm and held it tightly and then the other quickly came to my other side and did the same. They essentially immobilized and detained me. Granted I could have overpowered them but I preferred to keep the interaction light so I just called out that these girls had me. Wasn't a big deal but definitely far more assertive behavior than I'd seen in the past from these types. Wouldn't have a hard time believing the scam you guys describe is accurate.

Hopefully this will prevent them from having to obscure the view on the bridges with that obnoxious opaque film during F1 events.
Obviously the whole thing comes down to how intensely they enforce it. Will it be used just to remove those who are actively causing issues or will they really make an effort to keep anyone from ever loitering on the bridges? Because if it's selectively enforced then it may not amount to much.

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It's always nice to have your girlfriend/wife near you in situations like what happened to you. I remember hearing of a scam in a Casino where pretty women approach single men, flirt with them and ask them to let them spin the buttons for them. The single men are like," What's the harm in letting some pretty women spin the buttons for me?" They let the pretty women spin the buttons.

The pretty women hit a Jackpot while spinning with the single men's money and the pretty women get the Jackpot and not the men since Casinos award the person who pushed the button, NOT the person whose money it actually is, leaving the single men confused on why the pretty women get the Jackpot money and not them.

I remember saying something like,"These Scamming Women wouldn't try this scam with men who have girlfriends/wives with them because the girlfriend/wife would be like,"You need to get the hell away from my boyfriend/husband before I report you to Casino Staff." I also said something like,"It's generally a VERY bad idea to let complete Strangers you don't know spin your buttons for you."

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Would love to see some kind of ordinance passed where it is illegal to demand tips for any kind of public street "performance"

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Well that's the whole problem isn't it? Someone doing anything voluntarily on a street should not be asking for, let alone demanding, tips. If people appreciate what you're doing then they will tip you without being solicited. Once you start soliciting I think you're crossing the line into panhandling.

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Originally Posted by jdog

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Would love to see some kind of ordinance passed where it is illegal to demand tips for any kind of public street "performance"

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Well that's the whole problem isn't it? Someone doing anything voluntarily on a street should not be asking for, let alone demanding, tips. If people appreciate what you're doing then they will tip you without being solicited. Once you start soliciting I think you're crossing the line into panhandling.

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Yes, I agree.

It's worse than panhandling, because at least with panhandlers, they haven't "done anything" for you, so you can say no to them.

The "performers" demand a high tip after they do whatever it is that they're doing for you (such as the showgirls taking a pic with you), and THEY set the expected tip, not you.

Should be "freedom of speech, not freedom to operate a business in a public space".

I don't get it.

If they "demand a tip" just laugh, say "Fuck off" and walk away.

If you have people start aggressively demanding you give them a tip for something THEY coerced you into doing in the first place, something you never asked for to begin with, you can always say something like,"I have a concealed weapon permit and have the concealed weapon on me and it's loaded. I suggest you get the hell away from me before I'm forced to use it on you. Chances are, they won't want to take a chance of seeing a concealed weapon and will scram. This is only to be used in dire situations, like the one where the guy said the two women started holding him against his will, not knowing his Wife and friend were with him, just happened to end up being a little ahead of him.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I don't get it.

If they "demand a tip" just laugh, say "Fuck off" and walk away.

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The thing is, they don't just "demand a tip," they say something like,"I'm actually a Prostitute. Pay me $100 for that photo we took of my 6 foot Pimp who is watching this whole interaction will beat the shit out of you!" This is when claiming you have a concealed weapon can come in handy.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I don't get it.

If they "demand a tip" just laugh, say "Fuck off" and walk away.

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Something like that happened to my Michelle, out front of the Bay store, when I happened to be on my way back to meet her there. Without thinking, I walked up to the offender, some girl that looked like a football player, and, wrestled the money out of her hand. I didn't say a word, walked off. Didn't care how poor that she let on she was. In front of a bunch of other people, I guess waiting for a bus.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

If they "demand a tip" just laugh, say "Fuck off" and walk away.

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Of course... but the problem is some people can be intimidated easily and will pay just to avoid any further unpleasantness or what they perceive could result in a possible physical confrontation, even if there is no real danger.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I don't get it.

If they "demand a tip" just laugh, say "Fuck off" and walk away.

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If you refuse, they start shouting at you how this is what they do for a living, and you are cheating them.

If you don't immediately back down at that point, they will threaten you that their boyfriends nearby are going to come beat it out of you. If it's a female refusing to tip, the girls will threaten to beat her up themselves.

Most tourists will get very intimidated at that point and just hand over the $100, rather than risk whatever is going to happen next.

As I said, this is exactly why tip hustling should be strictly against the law in Clark County, and they should unleash some undercover officers to enforce it. The undercover officers should cite those who just verbally hustle for the tips, and arrest those who resort to threats.

That will end this practice forever, and the "showgirls" will either disappear or stand there with a sign with a posted price.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

If you refuse, they start shouting at you how this is what they do for a living, and you are cheating them. If you don't immediately back down at that point, they will threaten you that their boyfriends nearby are going to come beat it out of you.

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LOL

As if...

Semi-related, but here's a little story about expected "tips" on the street.

I was in downtown Atlanta at a hotel at 2am, and I wanted to get some 12-packs of soda and snacks for our road trip starting from there.

I thought to myself, "Sure it's 2am in Atlanta, but I've walked around bad areas of LA and Vegas before at night without issue, so what's the big deal?"

https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/im...addecision.gif


On the way out of the store, carrying a few bags of snacks and 2 12-pack sodas, a dude approached me. "Need any help?", he asked. I knew exactly what he meant by that, so I politely declined.

I kept walking. Another guy popped up and asked if I needed help. Again I politely declined.

Pretty soon I had about 6 of them completely surrounding me, with all of them "offering" to help carry the stuff for me and to give me directions back to the hotel (which was right down the street!)

I 100% knew they were going to demand a tip out of me -- probably a hefty one -- for any "help" received. There was nobody around on the street except for me and them. I kept walking, as they also did, in a circle around me.

Was I nervous about this? You bet I was. However, I thought back to advice I had heard regarding encountering a bear in the forest, and applied it here. If you act intimidated, you get attacked. If you try to run away, you get attacked. If you stand tall, speak firmly, and don't act the slightest bit intimidated, you have the best chance of walking away unscathed. That is, you don't pick a fight or antagonize, but you don't let on in the slightest that you're scared.

In fact, I took on a tone of mild annoyance, after turning down the first 2 more politely. I would loudly say back, "Nope! I'm good", or "Nope! I know where it is". The annoyance tone is effective, because it projects an emotion of frustration that they're bothering you rather than fear of them. It makes you look both unwilling to listen to them, yet also not scared.

I got directly across the street of the side door of the hotel. I knew if I made it to that door, nobody would attack me. I said, "Thanks for the offers guys, here's my hotel and I'll be ok!"

Then I stepped onto the street. None of them followed. Could these guys have mugged me and gotten away with it? Of course. There were 6 of them, one of me, and it was 2am with nobody else around. But they weren't outright criminals -- just dudes who attempted to look intimidating in order to get tourists like me to accept their "help" late at night in exchange for expected tips. None of them were willing to outright mug me, and deal with the potential prison time for such a thing.

But you can bet that if I accepted the "help" and then refused to tip them, it might have been a different story.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

If you refuse, they start shouting at you how this is what they do for a living, and you are cheating them. If you don't immediately back down at that point, they will threaten you that their boyfriends nearby are going to come beat it out of you.

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LOL

As if...

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Most guys with sub 8 inches in today’s dating game have decided to fall in love with cock. This is because women today are over sexed from all the porn they have watched and have been blowing out their sugar walls with large objects for many years. Since pencil dick men who smoke weed cannot please todays women they end up sucking cock like Kew in Vegas bathrooms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Semi-related, but here's a little story about expected "tips" on the street.

I was in downtown Atlanta at a hotel at 2am, and I wanted to get some 12-packs of soda and snacks for our road trip starting from there.

I thought to myself, "Sure it's 2am in Atlanta, but I've walked around bad areas of LA and Vegas before at night without issue, so what's the big deal?"

https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/im...addecision.gif


On the way out of the store, carrying a few bags of snacks and 2 12-pack sodas, a dude approached me. "Need any help?", he asked. I knew exactly what he meant by that, so I politely declined.

I kept walking. Another guy popped up and asked if I needed help. Again I politely declined.

Pretty soon I had about 6 of them completely surrounding me, with all of them "offering" to help carry the stuff for me and to give me directions back to the hotel (which was right down the street!)

I 100% knew they were going to demand a tip out of me -- probably a hefty one -- for any "help" received. There was nobody around on the street except for me and them. I kept walking, as they also did, in a circle around me.

Was I nervous about this? You bet I was. However, I thought back to advice I had heard regarding encountering a bear in the forest, and applied it here. If you act intimidated, you get attacked. If you try to run away, you get attacked. If you stand tall, speak firmly, and don't act the slightest bit intimidated, you have the best chance of walking away unscathed. That is, you don't pick a fight or antagonize, but you don't let on in the slightest that you're scared.

In fact, I took on a tone of mild annoyance, after turning down the first 2 more politely. I would loudly say back, "Nope! I'm good", or "Nope! I know where it is". The annoyance tone is effective, because it projects an emotion of frustration that they're bothering you rather than fear of them. It makes you look both unwilling to listen to them, yet also not scared.

I got directly across the street of the side door of the hotel. I knew if I made it to that door, nobody would attack me. I said, "Thanks for the offers guys, here's my hotel and I'll be ok!"

Then I stepped onto the street. None of them followed. Could these guys have mugged me and gotten away with it? Of course. There were 6 of them, one of me, and it was 2am with nobody else around. But they weren't outright criminals -- just dudes who attempted to look intimidating in order to get tourists like me to accept their "help" late at night in exchange for expected tips. None of them were willing to outright mug me, and deal with the potential prison time for such a thing.

But you can bet that if I accepted the "help" and then refused to tip them, it might have been a different story.

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Reminds me of a story I wrote about an American Fugitive who escaped to Canada. At the Canadian Airport, a well dressed guy asked Dave, the Protagonist if he wanted a taxi ride. Dave got a bad feeling about the guy and politely declined and walked away. The Villain followed Dave and asked him again if he wanted a taxi ride. Dave was even more alarmed and once again politely declined and kept walking. The Villain followed Dave and once again asked him if he wanted a Taxi ride. Dave said,"I'm a black belt in Karate and I'll kick your ass!" Dave kept walking away and the Villain STILL followed him asking if he wanted a taxi ride. At this point, Dave KNEW this guy was a creepy man, so he FINALLY was like,"Get the fuck away from me, you asshole!" The Villain FINALLY showed his true colors and tried to mug Dave, right there in a crowded Airport. Dave hit him in self defense and then called Security to take the Villain away and Security arrested the Villain. In your scenario, it's a good thing they weren't trying to mug you like the Villain was trying to do to Dave, , especially since you were outnumbered, in a shady place, and it was 2 am. Dave's Villain did this in a crowded Airport, I shudder to think of you being on your own with 6 shady people in a shady place at 2 am! :eek:

Druff’s street smarts advise: treat street people exactly like you would a bear or wild animal. Lmao

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Most guys with sub 8 inches in today’s dating game have decided to fall in love with cock. This is because women today are over sexed from all the porn they have watched and have been blowing out their sugar walls with large objects for many years. Since pencil dick men who smoke weed cannot please todays women they end up sucking cock like Kew in Vegas bathrooms.

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Hey Sleaze, what's with your obsession with cock?

You often refer to cocks in your post, and that makes you look like a fourth grader.

Just sayi';, boyo...

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The annoyance tone is effective, because it projects an emotion of frustration that they're bothering you rather than fear of them. It makes you look both unwilling to listen to them, yet also not scared.

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I'd say you played that about right but you were also lucky that the hotel was close by and none of them wanted to risk a criminal charge. Because with 6 of them, they knew the odds were well in their favor if things got physical.

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Originally Posted by jdog

I'd say you played that about right.

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Rolling On The Floor Laughing. Ha.

Suck up much? How's the size of your cock?

I never go on foot to even downtown Kitchener-Waterloo, after dark. I mean, for what? A bag of chips with an AP prize inside?

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Originally Posted by mcap

Druff’s street smarts advise: treat street people exactly like you would a bear or wild animal. Lmao

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You can learn a lot by observing the chimp cage at your local zoo. :cool:

Where a lot of the guys around here got their education.

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Originally Posted by mcap

Druff’s street smarts advise: treat street people exactly like you would a bear or wild animal. Lmao

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Lol. Pretty much. He was lucky they weren't serious hard dudes.

Pretty much in these situations everything is fine until the day it is not. Even then if you are only mugged then you'll be fine. It is those other days...

It depends on the type of bear.

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People are even warned with a color-coded aphorism about how to behave during a bear encounter: “If it's black, fight back; if it's brown, lie down; if it's white, say good night."

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by mcap

Druff’s street smarts advise: treat street people exactly like you would a bear or wild animal. Lmao

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Lol. Pretty much. He was lucky they weren't serious hard dudes.

Pretty much in these situations everything is fine until the day it is not. Even then if you are only mugged then you'll be fine. It is those other days...

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Yep, Dan himself even admitted he was lucky that they weren't hardened Criminals, just basically glorified Panhandlers.