How many cats believe that the kewl-J has the ability to count multiple tables at the same time, simultaneous, hey hey?
Printable View
How many cats believe that the kewl-J has the ability to count multiple tables at the same time, simultaneous, hey hey?
Stanford Wong has famously said a monkey can be taught to count cards. And he is right. The actual act of counting cards is 1st and 3rd grade math, literally. I learned addition subtraction in 1st grade and multiplication in 3rd grade. Card counting is adding and subtracting 1 for a level 1 count like hi-lo, sometimes 1 and 2 for a level 2 count, occasionally 1, 2 and 3 for a level 3 count, which in my opinion adds little.
So for hi-lo, which the majority of players, even professional players, including most of the known teams, it is adding and subtracting 1 over and over. The simple division comes into play when you divide that running number added and subtracted by the remaining decks to be played. So anyone with a 3rd grade education can be taught to count cards.
And while a little bit foreign, to anyone starting out, just as all new things are, it takes very little practice to where a player is basically doing it in his sleep. If you play as little as several times a week for a couple months and you are on auto pilot.
So why would anyone think that such a simple task couldn't be done simultaneously at two tables, with a little practice. And it is not like a player has to count through two different sets of 6 decks simultaneously. He counts a couple rounds and then moves to the game that is the better opportunity.
Not all card counters do this or have done this. But any experience card counter, that is anyone that plays more than a few times a year could do this. They should have the ability. The fact that you, a guy who claims to have been on a card counting team thinks this can't be done, makes me doubt your story of being on card counting team.
Fact is, it is almost a moot point now. I always said when conditions were just right and now with fewer pure blackjack tables and all the other variations and games clogging the pit, it is difficult to find tables next to each other and uncrowded conditions to where this would be effective.
And if you say anything about missing seeing some of the cards like the late Alan used to, then stop telling us you were on a card counting team because you don't even understand some of the very basics of card counting.
The more you post, the more the needle points to troll.
It is not just about counting two table at the same times. You claim that you can sit at one table, keeping the count, making bs decision and ramping the bets spread while being able to keep accurate count at another table, at the same times. The claim is dubious. And you, by not understanding why two cats counting as a team would be advantageous over two cats counting as individual tells me that you are a fraud and yer supposed knowledge of cards counter is superficial, hey hey.
Dude, it takes playing a couple hours a day for a couple weeks before all of this is done on auto pilot. Even a moderately experienced player doesn't have to think about any of these things. You should be able to count, make playing decision, watch a nearby TV screen and have a conversation with the dealer or player next to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfan
I have never encountered any "cats" at the table. I have heard of a "dog" that claims he plays, but his knowledge is suspect at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfan
There are ways two people counting as a team can be advantageous, no doubt. But two players playing the same table, raising and lowering bets in unison is a disaster. Couldn't be more obvious if they wore a shirt that said MIT card counting team.
For this reason, it was always a rule or common courtesy that if a counter joined a table with another counter, as soon as it was realized one would exit. Not doing so puts both in jeopardy. Even if they are using different counts, they still will be raising and lowering wagers almost in unisons (90-95% of the time).
You previously said they could get a bigger spread. tell me how? A player playing a 1-8 spread, lets say $50-$400. So 2 players sit next to each other and each bet $50-$400, totaling $100-$800, what spread is that? um 1-8. No difference. No bigger advantage.
There is a situation where if one is using a specialized count for say a side bet, while the other uses a primary count for the primary game, it could be advantageous, but still, if they are going to communicate that information or even just copy each others wager, you almost couldn't come up with a scenario that would draw more attention.
Do you KNOW how the MIT team was busted? Andy Anderson (Griffin database) basically noticed that every time a player sat down and bet big, there was already one of several different people (small group) at the table. From there it was just a matter of identifying who they were. Ever since that time, casinos are on the look out for and notice who is at the table and might be playing together. I know counters that have been linked in the databases to players and teams that they were not even associated with, just because they happened to play at the same table for a short time.
One of the very top rules for any kind of longevity, is if you find yourself at a table with another counter....leave! No good can come from it.
In the old days someone like Maxpen would have chimed in and confirmed what I am telling you. Now he wont because all he wants to do is troll.
Here is another reason for you. A mathematical reason.
Teams often play on the same bankroll. So say a player, an individual player has a BR of 40k. He will figure his bet spread and ramp based on what risk he wants or is comfortable playing, usually now easily done with software. So the solo play comes up with a bet spread and ramp of lets say xx @ TC +1, XXX @ TC +2, XXX at TC +3, XXXX at TC +4. And the RoR based on this spread and ramp for this bankroll is 3%.
Two players can play off that same BR at different tables, (shared bankroll) and each be playing that same bet spread/ramp and each be playing to a RoR of 3%.
But if they play at the SAME table with that same spread/ramp, putting the same money in play, The variance and RoR, goes up because of co-variance. So they are playing to a higher RoR. Co-Variance means because they are playing against the same dealer hand.
This also occurs with a single player playing 2 or 3 spots. This same co-variance effect is why a player that Max bets at $400, should only Maxbet at $300 when playing 2 spots (75%) and even less, I forget maybe 60% when playing 3 spots. If the player bet the same $400 across 2 or 3 spots that RoR and variance would be much higher. So similarly, 2 players playing off the same BR but still betting the optimal amount for 1 player, would be in fact increasing their total risk of ruin. Each would need to be betting LESS to have the same, variance and RoR. So your claim of bigger bet spreads is absolutely wrong.
You couldn't provide any locations where this would be effective when you made your dubious claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
When Alan investigated and pointed that out, you attacked him with anti-semitic slurs.
You tried to discredit him so that your claims would somehow become more credible.
This is exactly what you project that others are doing to this very day.
Good God!!! Why would I? Why would I reveal where I am doing such a play or able to do such a play? That would be a death wish to that play. Just like if I were to say I play XXX casino because they deal 5.5 decks out of 6. Next thing you know they are dealing 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyYou couldn't provide any locations where this would be effective when you made your dubious claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
However there has been a bit of a change in circumstances that I can now name a place that I was able to do this fairly regularly. I can name the place because it is a place I no longer or at least don't currently play. South Point Casino. :rolleyes:
There are quite a number of strip casinos were there are multiple tables next to each other. There are some caveats, like sometimes not all tables are open during slower times and during busier times when they are, you might not be able to jump to a set at the next table, so why bother tracking.
Back when I mentioned this technique, I didn't play the strip much. one or two casinos in my regular rotation. Now I play the strip more than anywhere and for higher stakes), but I also play busier times which is going to limit this opportunity. Conditions have to be just right and they are just right less and less frequently now a days.
Anyway, I can see we are into typical coach belly. You want to argue anything and everything. I only played along because I am bored.
I believes it. Alan didn’t. But i ain’t reading all that Kewlj wrote up there neither.
I believe it.
Not just because KJ says he can, but because THESE guys at BTF say they can and do:
https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...o-tables/page2
Sorry to interrupt your little flame of KJ, soxfan...troll rejected, try again.
Start at the first page (of two), https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...nt-two-tables& , which gives a better impression of what's going on, namely, way too little to take seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Where's the math to show the advantage of counting two (or more) tables at once, via mirrors overhead, as opposed to the thus downside? Lol.
P.S. In KJ's case, he would be a lot better off to further develop what simple card counting he, supposedly, does.
Garnabby, soxfan didn't ask whether it was advantageous to count two tables, he queried only whether it is possible.
Yes, it is: case closed.
The title of that thread is "How do you backcount two tables?"Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
That's not what tewlj is talking about.
MrV. No one counts cards not to take advantage. And, anyone can count the cards of even ten table at once, by walking up, and down, a row of tables, and, then, noting one card on each table where the cards are being dealt. So, if the intent of the question, by now, still wasn't to take advantage, then no, no one can "simultaneously" count the cards on even two spots on the same table, at the very same time - unless you're into scalar waves, which operate outside of space & time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Ha.
Oh, speaking of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfan
1Hit1der
1Hit1der is online now
Gold
1Hit1der's Avatar
Join Date
Nov 2023
Posts
270
You are the one who mentioned counting a second table while playing another on the strip.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
You could have provided the SP location privately, we all know how you like to work the PMs.
You really thought that Alan was going to expose your play?
It would have been your own fault, since you're the one who mentioned it in the first place.
You're a shameless liar.
Hmm...what's the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyThe title of that thread is "How do you backcount two tables?"Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
That's not what tewlj is talking about.
The issue seems to be whether one person can keep an accurate count of two adjoining tables.
Pardon my ignorance, but I don't play blackjack..."back counting?"
Wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyThe title of that thread is "How do you backcount two tables?"Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
That's not what tewlj is talking about.
Back-counting is a spotter counting 2 or more tables and then signaling the player.
A player counting a second table is exactly the same thing. It's just the player is doing both roles, spotter (for himself) and big player.
How is an active player, counting a different table than where he is sitting, exactly the same thing as a non-player spotter, back-counting 2 tables and then signaling the player?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
You're a moron.
Alan was investigating whether an active player could effectively see the cards on the second table, if there were players at that table.
You said strip, he checked the strip in the area where you said.
You could have PMd him SP, and he would have checked SP, and reported back without exposing your play.
Whatever, coach...the guys at BTF are familiar with the concept, it's real.
Get over it.
Yeah, Coach, V's one of those guys who, just, can't, say, "Thanks. I was wrong." Ha. Delusional, even.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
I wasn't and am not "wrong."
It seems that experienced card counters can indeed "have the ability to" count two tables at once, which answers the exact question asked.
Harrumph.
I've said before, that if I were standing in a pit, off to a side that I could count two tables, simultaneous. But, the kewlj is making a different claim altogether, though I'm not surprised that pot-head V can't comprehend the difference, hey hey.
He said he can accurately count an adjoining table while sitting and playing at another table: why shouldn't he be able to?
Oh, and you can leave the cannabis out of it.
There is a joint in the Las Vegas called the Casino Quest, and for a fee you can rent a 21 table for an hour and they provide the dealer workin the 6 or 8 decks shoe. So, it would be a simple matter for us to rent a couple 21 table side by each in close proximities, then the kewlJ can pony up and show his prowess-ability to do as he claim. And a few of us can pony up some cake to make it worths his while, hey hey!!!
We can procure a coupla 21 table side by each for 50 bucks an hour, thus simulating the condition necessary for the kewlJ to show us how he go about things and prove his claim, hey hey.
https://www.casinoquest.biz/
It's KJ's claim, so, like everything else he lied about, let him try to prove it even without using mirrors. No point rolling around, in the mud, with nutty "pigs".
The kewlJ initial claim made NO MENTIONS of havin to use any mirror, hey hey!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdawg
As such, it is pointless to ask UNKewlJ "if he can count two tables" after it has been established that he doesn't even count one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdawg
How many words does it even take to just say, "Yes, I have done that?"
Instead:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Years ago, and in the link that V provided, it was about looking up at the mirrors on the ceiling of the casino, to see the cards at the other table(s).Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfan
Anyway, what does KJ do when the count is good at the other table(s)? Does he start at the other table(s) with a big bet, compared to the small bets at the initial, bad table? Never has to lower his bet, again? Or, does he play one big bet, and, then, leave whether a win, which would take twenty thousand casino trips, a year, to the same thirty or so casinos?
One "real world" factor he forgot to mention, obviously because he doesn't even actually play much at all, is that many casinos don't allow mid shoe entry.
Ah the difference between real world and UNKewl fantasy.
If he were doing something other than spout a composite of culled theory, he would have at least mentioned this, but, you can't think of everything when you're making it all up on the fly!
And, don't forget that he wrote that he avoids optimizing his bankroll, by intentionally playing into a lot of variance - which means he wins less often - to avoid tipping off the casinos, by not moving up from red and green chips.
I don't believe you fools (not you MrV). You really want to get into this again? I can because I don't do it much anymore. But what is the point? You Nancys are playing games looking to prove me wrong and wont accept whatever I say anyway. I went through this with Blackhole several years ago. He started a thread determined to prove me wrong and throughout the thread, I answered every question. At the end, mickey called it a clinic on blackjack play. And guess what it didn't matter, the old fool blackhole couldn't accept what he couldn't accept.
First the mirrors. This was probably 17 or 18 years ago in Atlantic City and at a casino that no longer even exists. I think the Sands, but might have been the Claridge. They were side by side and older places. One is now gone completely, the other they just use the hotel room, no casino, last I heard.
This discussion didn't even come up at the time, but probably 10 years later, when a guy I used to communicate with regularly and I were discussing tracking two tables. He played AC at the time as well. So if you looked up at the mirrored ceiling, you had an unobstructed view to the table and game directly across the pit. No players going to block THAT view. Of course everything (cards) were upside down, but that didn't really matter. You were mostly looking at pips and paint to identify small cards vs Jacks, queens, Kings (10 value). That was my introduction to tracking a second table and I came up with it on my own, just as the other player I spoke about it with years later did.
Soxfan, I am not demonstrating anything to/for you. Alan wanted that as well, 5,6 years ago. You are out of your freaking mind.
Mdawg, I don't see a lot of NMSE (no mid shoe entry) in Las Vegas. That is much more prevalent in other areas, like the East coast. Maybe in some high limit rooms where you play, but I see very little on main floors. Higher limit tables would actually make sense as that is where they would need to stop or discourage team play hitting for bigger money. But that is NOT what I am about. Even the past several years playing the strip, I play the main floor and just don't see any NMSE tables. About the closest thing to NMSE that I used to see was some of the smaller places would have a rule where you had to bet minimum if you entered mid shoe. I am thinking specifically of Eastside Cannery which is closed. Even that, I haven't seen in 10 years, although I don't play those really small places anymore. I was always a fish out of water there, with my moderate stakes.
1hit1der: If you want some examples of what I mean when I say I do some things that invite variance, why not just ask me, instead of incorrectly speculating. Spreading both ways is an example of something that invited variance. example $25 minimum table. I want to spread $50-$400, staying below $500 max bet. My first bet off the top is likely to be $125. Win or lose next bet probably $100, and then I settle at my base bet of $75. Those first two bets are a little higher because that is the bets the pits looks at with a new player if they look. Then they will mark down initial bet of $125 or $100. THAT is what I am after.
So then when I spread up to $400 it looks like either a 1-4 spread ($100-$400 or even less at $125-$400) again my actual real base bet is $75. So if nothing is happening, that is my bet and I will drop to $50 in negative counts, to complete the $50-$400 spread. But pit or surveillance has to see both negative counts and positive counts all the way to Max bet in the same shoe to see the full spread. That rarely happens. So usually they see part of the spread making it look much less than 1-8. And almost no casino is backing off or throwing heat over a 1-4 or less spread.
AND here is a key element. Spreading this way has almost the same win rate as a traditional 1-8 spread, just as long as you only make those $125 and $100 bets for a round or two. If you don't believe me, run some simulations. Almost no difference in win rate, but huge difference in what your spread looks like to pit/surveillance. And yes the downside is it does invite increased variance. I am willing to accept that because I am properly bankrolled for the increased variance.
The alternating bet spread amounts that I have mentioned a couple times also invited a big increase in Variance. Also a huge increase in win rate. And is incredible cover. Hard for anyone to really see what you are doing without a computer evaluation. You aren't going to trick a computer, but you can trick and buy time with the actual person that orders it. :) But I am not ready to give much details on that yet. Sorry. I hinted at it, anyone with half a brain, should figure it out.
What else? I shared that South Point used to be a location that I was able to track a second table fairly regularly (when I played there, which I don't right now :rolleyes:). You want another very recent one. A new locals type casino opened in November. I wrote about my first visit somewhere...was it here? I described the pit as laid out a lot like South Point, rather than some of the other casinos in this chain. See the connection? So this new place on my first 3 visits, had a lot of tables open, more than needed, I guess because they were new. It was a prime opportunity for tracking a second table. More recent visits and the number of tables open isn't as excessive. So the layout is still prime for tracking two tables, you just need to hit the right time, if that is a technique you want to pursue.
I think that is it for now. Lets hear the Nancy naysayers do their thing....."he doesn't know what he is talking about". :D
Let me close with this suggestion to some of you KJ haters. Don't play these games hoping to test and "catch me". I know what the fuck I am talking about because I live it. If you want to hate on me for being a card counter and card counting being low thing on the totem pole...fine. But I KNOW what I talk about in my narrow arena. I wish there was more blackjack discussion that we could all benefit from, but this is not the forum for that.
And to the nitwits that continue to say, I regurgitate shit: The things I know and can talk about if you want to have legitimate discussions are not things you see discussed anywhere else so that bullshit doesn't fly either, try as you might.
remember, it isn't that hard to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking. But you do have to listen (or read). You can't just bury your head in the sand.
Can this fool really be so deluded as to think that with every word he's doing anything more than just proving that he's FraudJ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdawg
As such, it is pointless to ask UNKewlJ "if he can count two tables" after it has been established that he doesn't even count one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdawg
How many words does it even take to just say, "Yes, I have done that?"
Instead:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Clearly you barely care.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Tell me it's not possible FraudJ killed his partner for the inheritance :cool:
He doesn't get it though. Doesn't get that his 10000 word explanations all lead to...exactly that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
I was going to pose the question - If Kewl only had 1 bullet and I was standing there with MaxPen ... then I think lets throw Mdawg into the question. Then I realize it isn't even a contest anymore who is getting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawgHe doesn't get it though. Doesn't get that his 10000 word explanations all lead to...exactly that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Kewl is the greatest. I'd ask Ozzy where he ranks amongst the gambling forum greats but I suspect we've lost Ozzy. He just wasn't the kinda of guy to give up on the forums and he has been MIA for some time AFAIK.
To the audience - Please rank Mdawg,Singer,AiQ,MaxPen into #1- #4 on Kewl's hit list ....
Riddle me this,
riddle me that,
don't riddle me about the newell.
Who takes himself more seriously,
Redietz or Kewl?
Who is more deranged?
Mdawg or Kewl ?
There are many thought experiments to be had to help spruce this place up.
V, you get so confused when you blindly try SO hard to support your proven little pathological liar.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVHmm...what's the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyThe title of that thread is "How do you backcount two tables?"Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
That's not what tewlj is talking about.
The issue seems to be whether one person can keep an accurate count of two adjoining tables.
Pardon my ignorance, but I don't play blackjack..."back counting?"
Understand, those other sites & forums is where your imposter friend gets much of the information he uses to create his ongoing concocted internet gambling forums life you see him writing all these nervous-poodle rambling essays about. The obnoxious length of his posts are a simple product of him never feeling like he ever gets his lies across in convincing fashion.
I would say you need to hit the reset button when it comes to kew. That....and getting rid of that never-ending hard-on you have for mdawg. (Note: that WOULD require putting an end to the drug abuse....).
Bbbwwwaaaahhhh, I'm shocked, shocked I sat the kewlJ-pinnochio tuck tails between his leg and run away from the challenge like the little bitch. These longs-talking, bulls-shits artist are all the same, hey hey!!!!
A "never-ending hard on?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Nah, not me: Johnny only comes marching home when we're out on night maneuvers, but as always thanks for thinking about me...