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Why even bother? I see these shills streaming on YouTube hitting handpays for 5 figures and just using the quickpay feature... Then you have me and my dumbass hitting multiple 1250 wins playing $5 DDB and having to wait around for the handpay and give $10... Why even bother anymore? Why should I be tipping when these people are not and hitting for larger amounts?
I used to tip:
1250 = $10
2000 = $20
4000 = $40
Don't even feel like doing it at all anymore...
Jason, your dad used to chastise me over my stance of never tipping for handpays. But if you're finally gonna stop being intimidated (most tippers scoff at that word but thats what it really is and everyone knows it) into handing over a small portion of your win, do it because giving away $$ to the attendants makes no sense, and not because of what goes on elsewhere. I suspect those using this quickpay feature eventually get coaxed into tipping in some fashion before leaving anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
I tip pretty generously for all non-gambling occasions. I have become more and more anti-tipping for machine and table play. I am horrified by people tipping window clerks at the sports books. Not my job to subsidize dealers and casinos.
One of the side effects of tipping goes like this:
1) You have a marginal edge.
2) Tipping undercuts your marginal edge.
3) This self-sabotage leads to more of a "I don't give a damn" about house edges in your own mind BECAUSE you are self-sabotaging.
Why self-sabotage? Because that is what it is. You are voluntarily donating money to the opposition unless the tips are in the 1/20th of 1 percent range (which could happen, I guess), in which case the advantages of tipping may outweigh the detriments. Occasionally, make that rarely, the advantages of tipping have been real (as Dancer explained a couple of times in his famous book), but those opportunities are virtually extinct.
I would love to hear Todd wax eloquent on WSOP tipping and tipping in poker tournaments in general. If the "tips" aren't voluntary, aren't they "not tips?" I would think Todd would go off the deep end regarding the labeling of involuntary fees as "tips." Out of all of the tipping-while-gambling scenarios, I feel most pressured after cashing in small casino-room-sponsored poker tournaments. The tipping in these is in fact voluntary. The house take is enormous, and you have spent hours sitting with the dealers employed for the tournaments, so you are more than just an anonymous face to each other. Since I know in my mind and heart that I should NOT be playing in these kinds of tourneys (usually I do it as a social thing with friends visiting), I feel more obligated to tip since, truth to tell, I should not be playing in them expecting any kind of profit.
We tip so employees never want to side against us as advantage players.
That's the old Dancer modus operandi. But the benefits of doing so were a lot greater during the early days of players' cards. And back when there were more discretionary comps. Back when "tip" and "bribe" were matters of degree, not definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday
I agree if you are playing higher denominations and getting w2's every 15 minutes. I only tip on royals. A royal is special, four 3's is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
You tip because you're intimidated into doing it. It's called weakness, and advantage players are the last ones to lower their edge in such a foolish way--especially these days. And how many times have we heard "they'll slow-pay me if I'm a known non-tipper!" Big whoop--there's usually more available and similar machines nearby, and if there isn't then use the break to your advantage and rest your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday
I won $1,000 on Bingo and tipped the Cashier $50, but that was more out of elated and ecstatic gratitude that I won a free $1,000(Bingo is free) than being intimate into doing so.
So you didn't tip when you won the (claimed) $1.5 Million on one push of a VP button?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Anyone who does ok and doesn't mind giving someone $10-$20 because it makes them feel better is "intimidated". Lol big baller Robert Singer showing his true colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerYou tip because you're intimidated into doing it. It's called weakness, and advantage players are the last ones to lower their edge in such a foolish way--especially these days. And how many times have we heard "they'll slow-pay me if I'm a known non-tipper!" Big whoop--there's usually more available and similar machines nearby, and if there isn't then use the break to your advantage and rest your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday
I agree with wontpay though. I tend to tip when the slot attendant's opinion could possibly matter. If I am at a random casino it is 50/50 whether I tip at all though.
I am more likely to tip on a handpay received at Chinook Winds as opposed to Spirit Mtn. because CW gives me great comps and SM gives me nothing.
Just had a handpay Thurs. at SM...gave them zilch.
I'm just saying... Why should I when these people are getting much larger taxable wins and tipping nothing. I don't think he ever knew about quickpay features... If we did, we would have definitely used them!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerJason, your dad used to chastise me over my stance of never tipping for handpays. But if you're finally gonna stop being intimidated (most tippers scoff at that word but thats what it really is and everyone knows it) into handing over a small portion of your win, do it because giving away $$ to the attendants makes no sense, and not because of what goes on elsewhere. I suspect those using this quickpay feature eventually get coaxed into tipping in some fashion before leaving anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
I mean, you go to the cage with the tickets... At the cage, sure, pass them $20... But one $20 tip is different than multiple over a single night.
AGREE!Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfromlaI agree if you are playing higher denominations and getting w2's every 15 minutes. I only tip on royals. A royal is special, four 3's is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
It has been a while since I have jumped into a tipping discussion. I tip or used to when I played more machines 1% on handpays. That is $40 on a $4000 Royal which was the majority of my Royals. A few $2000, that I tipped $20. And that was solely out of guilt or whatever pressure is on the player to do so. And of course that amount is not enough. I am sure these attendants were cussing me out.
BUT what really burns me is the expectation of tipping at table games. For What? Dealing the cards, like a monkey or computer/Robot could do (and that is coming). This isn't a service specific to you, like waiter, or valet or what not. This is a freaking menial job that a monkey could do. Should I be tipping the cashier at CVS? (sorry for the reference Tasha)
And it gets even worse. Unlike playing machines, Dealers at table games like blackjack expect a tip whether you win or lose. If you sit there and play for 2 hours (I don't) and lose, they think you should tip. :confused: For what?
AND they don't even want to wait until the end. They think you should tip as you go. You win a hand, you should tip. Seriously, there are some real tip hustlers type dealers out there.
I have gotten to the point that I rarely tip. If it was a real good session, I might throw a $5 tip. But real good session means I won 4 figures, and you know they are cursing me for that. I don't know what they expect, 10%, 20%. It's crazy.
I am just starting to get back into a little bit of machine play. Haven't hit a royal yet, but when i do, I think I am going to go the "no tip" route. Why should I tip for doing their job? Isn't that the casinos responsibility.
UNKewlJ has posted in the past about what an abysmal tipper he is - maybe five bucks at the end of a blackjack session.
But of course now we know why - five bucks or so a hand is about all he plays - in a session.
Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Mdawg must you hijack every thread with your trolling nonsense.
My apologies Slapinfunk, for weighing in. I should have known it would lead to one of the trolls hijacking.
You should not be tipping in tournaments where the dealers are already getting a percentage of the prize pool. Major tournaments today hold out an amount from each buy-in for the dealers. So everyone that enters is tipping instead of just those that cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Of course the dealers DO ALLOW suckers that cash to go ahead and tip again. Why wouldn't they? But no tournament pros are doing that anymore.
Last years WSOP probably held out $2,000,000 from the buy-ins for the dealers.
For the small daily tournaments in Las Vegas they withhold an ungodly amount of the buy-ins. The dealers are already getting a big cut. But they will still have their hands out at the end for all suckers to tip them.
There is an aspect to tipping at table games that I rarely see discussed and that is the possibility of collusion. For even this slimmest of slim possibilities, tipping should be not allowed.
It has been awhile since this incident, shortly after I moved to Vegas, because I remember thinking "so this is the way Vegas works". Dealer paid me on a hand I didn't win. Happens all the time. So between collecting the cards and dealing the next round the guy made a comment, something like "with the right incentive.... (I forget the exact wording), while looking directly at me.
I exited a few rounds later. I wanted no part of that. If you accept several of those "bonus payment" and are seen tipping on camera, not that hard to prove. My view is that EVERYTHING has risk. And I always like to weigh the risk vs reward for every situation, in and out of casinos.
Just for fun, what would others have done?
I have had maybe one of two other sort of similar but much less blatent incidents over the years as well.
In multiple cases, tipping entitlement IS becoming out of control. A pizza delivery driver cussed out a young Teenager for not tipping him. Sadder thing is , the young Teenager who answered the door wasn't even the one who ordered the food, he merely answered the door. It was actually his little Sister who ordered the food. Little Sister said that she thought the delivery fee was the tip. When I was a child, I also thought the delivery fee was the tip. The delivery driver got fired for cussing out a Customer.
An Adult Customer paid about $5 on a roughly $23 food order. The delivery driver made the first red flag when he said,"It's a nice house for a $5 tip. She graciously thanked him for the food and he straight up CUSSED her out. She didn't cuss him back out, still just politely thanked him for the food. In an interview, she admitted she was SHOCKED at him cussing her out when she actually gave him more than a decent tip. A decent tip is 20 percent. She gave him almost a 22 percent tip. The delivery driver was fired. Refreshingly, EVERYBODY was on the Customer's side and NO ONE supported the delivery driver. Someone even pointed out she could have been babysitting and ordered lunch while on the babysitting job.
A delivery driver stole the food because the Customer didn't tip. The Customer was rightfully LIVID and was like,"I need my food that I paid for. The delivery driver just robbed me of my food. I think the delivery driver was fired.
A Domino's Employee went on a huge rant about not getting tipped after driving in the rain. He knocked over pizza boxes. Luckily for him, he exploded inside of the Domino's and not directly in front of the Customer. He wasn't fired.
A delivery driver cussed out a Customer through a ring camera for giving a $8 tip on a $40 food order I believe. IIRC, she stole the food back and was fired. Once again, the Customer gave a decent tip, exactly 20 percent tip.
An American Waitress was PISSED at European Customers who didn't tip. In Europe, tipping basically doesn't exist, so the European Tourists had absolutely no idea why the American Waitress was mad at them for not tipping. The European Tourists had an American Relative who told the Waitress that they are from Europe and in Europe, tipping basically doesn't exist, and that's why they didn't tip. The Waitress got the point and felt bad for being mad at the European Tourists. The American Relative made sure that his European Tourists Relatives knew to always tip in American Restaurants.
Tipping entitlement has gotten out of hand.
Here's my take on this. ONLY employees who are paid a server wage (typically less than min wage) should expect to be tipped. Delivery drivers are the only exception. Obviously any kind of slot attendant would not fall into this category. That being said I will still give small tips to all kinds of employees in a casino because it makes them happy and I enjoy it, especially those in janitorial positions.
However it should be noted:
The state of Nevada does not allow a 'server wage'.
I would assume that tips given to an attendant after a handpay would usually go into a pool to be distributed with other employees working that day. I also suspect that dealer tips are often treated the same way. Maybe someone who has more specific knowledge about this will chime in.
While I didn't tip the slot slut at Spirit Mtn. when I got a handpay Thursday, I did tip a security guard twenty bucks the following AM at Chinook Winds.
My car got a flat tire in the parking lot; as a shade tree mechanix I had no concerns about changing the tire myself.
But...I soon discovered that I'd over-tightened the lug nuts and couldn't loosen them on site using the flimsy tool the car came with.
A security guard came over and at my suggestion he went and got a good sized piece of pipe which we used as a lever to bust the nuts loose.
He was very helpful and I had no qualms about tipping him for the VALUE he imparted.
By the way... Years and years ago, when we would go to Pechanga, there were DDB $5 machines where 4oak would pay $1195. He would play them so he didn't have to tip...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerJason, your dad used to chastise me over my stance of never tipping for handpays. But if you're finally gonna stop being intimidated (most tippers scoff at that word but thats what it really is and everyone knows it) into handing over a small portion of your win, do it because giving away $$ to the attendants makes no sense, and not because of what goes on elsewhere. I suspect those using this quickpay feature eventually get coaxed into tipping in some fashion before leaving anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Are you at liberty to clarify something?
Some speculate that your dad basically pissed away all or most of his money on casino gambling: is that true?
I'd like to think he had SOME self control, but hey, who knows?
He surely was bitten by the gamblin' bug.
Alan was no more a gambling addict than ANYONE who lives in LV and gambles....AP or not (and most of them claim they're "AP's" for obvious reasons.) The reason why his exploits get scrutinized on forums is because of his penchant to announce his taking spur-of-the-moment trips from LA to LV in the middle of the night to gamble. No different really (except not as frequent) from all those who live in LV and can't stop from going to casinos to gamble almost on a daily, self-destructive basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Shheesh, what a bunch of cheaps-skate, tights-wad, and skinned-flint in here, hey hey!!!!
Alan wasn't an advantage gambler. He was just a gambler.
I don't see how his finances would be a useful discussion topic now that he's passed.
Thanks to Alan's interest in gambling, we have this forum where we can still talk together today, even more than a year after he's been gone. It remains an alternative to Wizard of Vegas.
Let's just leave it at that, as far as Alan is concerned, and be happy this place exists thanks to him.
Sorry, but I was concerned for his circumstances toward the end and was hoping to hear that he was doing OK til he sevened out at the end.
He was an interesting man.
Server wages should be banned in every state
He didn't blow everything away, at least from what I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
He definitely loved the game. We had some good times playing together as well. He didn't have a mean bone in his body. He was a good dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
What is wild, I used to talk with him about doing gambling videos of him playing video poker and stuff... Wish we did them...
At his fun-eral, I mentioned that he 7nd out for the last time... heh... Yeah, he would call them Fun-Erals...Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
By the way.... I'm looking for a particular video of my father and found my "Rob Singer Hold Royal"
Uh-oh....you're in for it now!
Thank you for the positive info about Alan, SLaPINfunk, good to hear.
This one was years and years ago... But I always hold just the queen for you ;) If I am delt K J off suit I pick one based on how many other of the suit are on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Wait, Robert likes to hold queens?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
I thought he hated gays.
Live and learn.
He also would investigate real thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
What bothers me about the tipping situation is when the expected tip is greater than what is reasonable.
So at that point, your choices are:
1) Overtip
2) Tip fairly, and be resented
3) Tip zero, and be even more resented
I have decided I will never go for option #2. If I feel the slot attendant is going to resent my tip (based upon past interactions with them), I will not tip at all. You aren't getting my tip money if you're going to resent me for it. I'd rather keep it in my pocket if resentment is going to enter the equation.
I really hate the expectation to tip on handpays, though. It's not a voluntary service. It's paperwork based upon federal law.
Regarding the WSOP, I do not give extra tips there when I cash. As has already been pointed out, an autotip comes out of the prize pool. There is an option to leave extra, but I don't. I do tip when there is no auto-tip in place, but most tournament venues have an auto-tip now.
An obnoxious thing happened in the mid-2000s to a kid who hit a $1.2 million tournament score at some poker venue (not WSOP). The venue had an auto-tip, but they asked him if he wanted to leave any extra. He left another $1,000. That was generous -- he should have left zero, because the auto-tip already tipped the staff! Instead, some asshole dealer or staff member violated his privacy and anonymously shamed him for it on a poker forum (not mine). He got clobbered for it, with everyone calling him a cheapskate, an ingrate, an asshole, a cold hearted selfish prick, etc. I tried to defend him, but it fell on deaf ears. People had such a hard time wrapping their head around the $1000 being EXTRA above the auto-tip. Some understood it, but called it an "insult" that he left "only" $1000 above it. Fuck them.
Anyway, it drove the kid out of poker. He was devastated by it, and thought everyone hated him. I knew his girlfriend at the time, and she told me about all of this. I felt so bad for him, and tried to defend him, but morons gonna be morons.
I remember that story... I no longer tip on tournament winnings, not that I've gone very deep lately :-/
If everyone stopped tipping then slot techs would quit if they could get a better job. It would no longer subsidize casino wages. Casinos therefore start to actually push to raise the w2g threshold.
Many casinos now allow you to put machines in the mode where they won't generate handpays, and will simply make you get a single tax form at the end of the session. Unfortunately, many have not yet implemented such technology.
Handpays fuck gamblers in various ways. They often create false "winnings" for the taxman, and they induce this tipping expectation which eats into what gamblers actually take home.
I would understand tipping if you had the option to go up to a counter and process everything yourself, where the to-your-seat paperwork and payment is a convenience. But here you have no choice. To me it feels like tipping the DMV clerk for processing my drivers license renewal, or tipping a bank teller for handing me my own money when I withdraw it.
I had a tax year where my former tax guy neglected to look up my w2g's that were reported to the IRS. I didn't keep track and had 120K of unreported w2g's that year.
Long story short, we filed, reported my losses against the w2g's I actually had. Year later I got a bill for something like 36K plus interest and penalty. Even though my win loss statements did not show a profit, they still hit me for the full taxable amount on the wins even though they were not actually "wins." Tax people don't understand how gambling works. Because I didn't account for those w2g's and report the appropriate losses against them, I got stuck paying the bill...
That tax guy really fucked me... Now I make sure I get a report from the IRS before filing my taxes...
Did you sue the tax guy?
If not, why not?
If he's legit he should have insurance to cover it.
Why would you not amend your return instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Did your tax guy just pull a loss number out of nowhere against the w2-g's he had access to?
If it was in the past 3 years, you still have a chance to go back and amend it, and get the IRS to send you the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Calling the IRS, while sometimes frustrating to get through, is also effective. They have real accountants answering the phone, and are empowered to help you. In every telephone correspondence I've had with them, I've been impressed, and I've gotten various issues solved much quicker than trying to write back and forth.
You can also get them to forgive interest/penalties if you have a reasonable story, and are willing to pay up otherwise. In fact, I advised someone else recently (a friend not in poker/gambling), who didn't know an obscure tax law, and ended up underpaying. He got hit with interest/penalty, and I told him to call the IRS, explain the circumstances, offer to fully correct the error, and ask for the penalty/interest to be waived. They agreed.
This has certainly been one of the more interesting tipping threads.
One of the posts here led me to contemplate a perspective that I hadn't---were it not a slot attendant, 'Handpay,' how much would you tip the cage if you could take the ticket there? The high limit machines where the PC will allow you to accumulate W2-G winnings aside (which are relatively new), it's not as if the handpay is an optional service and, in fact, detracts from the experience as the machine has to be temporarily shutdown and then you have to wait for your money.
I'm actually reevaluating my earlier position on handpays and now thinking it's probably imprudent (unless you specifically have a reason to want to be liked at that house) to tip attendants more than you would tip the cage. If I ran up a $2,000 ticket (without handpays), for example, then I'd probably give the cage guy $5.00, but would more likely cash out at one of the stations when it allows for that much. (I could be wrong, but I believe I recall one casino where the cash out machines wouldn't allow for a single ticket over $1,500.)
I agree... it's leftover prohibition era nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
The problem is we have certain professions where tipping has become customary, like valets or people that handle your bags. Certainly it is in your best interest when people are handling your property. I usually only tip at the cage if I'm making them do a lot of work, like changing bills or giving them a bunch of tickets at once.
The worst thing is how employers are abusing the tip function to guilt you into giving the person who hands you a sandwich another 20%, essentially supplementing what should be a normal wage. No reason to tip if there is no service to tip on, I tend to think a person processing a handpay falls more into this category.
I didn't think about it. Is that a thing could I have done that? Tax year was 2016, filed late 2017...Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Did file an amended return. They said I could not file an amended return to reduce the balance. Remember, I already filed my losses as XXX,XXX, this would increase my losses by 100K something on the amended return. They would also only accept the amended return if I paid the balance, so I paid the balance and then they said, too bad so sad the amended return will not reduce the amount you owe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPenWhy would you not amend your return instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Did your tax guy just pull a loss number out of nowhere against the w2-g's he had access to?
The loss number was basically against the w2g's that we had since he said that the loss can not exceed the winnings because then they would wonder where that money came from etc...
Tax year 2016, got the bill in 2018 sometime... I paid some bullshit tax law group $5000 and they were useless. Said nothing we could do after they rejected the amended returns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffIf it was in the past 3 years, you still have a chance to go back and amend it, and get the IRS to send you the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Calling the IRS, while sometimes frustrating to get through, is also effective. They have real accountants answering the phone, and are empowered to help you. In every telephone correspondence I've had with them, I've been impressed, and I've gotten various issues solved much quicker than trying to write back and forth.
You can also get them to forgive interest/penalties if you have a reasonable story, and are willing to pay up otherwise. In fact, I advised someone else recently (a friend not in poker/gambling), who didn't know an obscure tax law, and ended up underpaying. He got hit with interest/penalty, and I told him to call the IRS, explain the circumstances, offer to fully correct the error, and ask for the penalty/interest to be waived. They agreed.
Pretty fucked up the whole thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
It all boils down to you having screwed up records. That's kind of what I thought. If you're going to fabricate numbers to correlate to w2-g wins then, yeah, you best not miss any. Your accountant is wrong about the loss not being able to exceed the win. You can have whatever losses in your case you just wouldn't receive any credit for them above offsetting wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNKDid file an amended return. They said I could not file an amended return to reduce the balance. Remember, I already filed my losses as XXX,XXX, this would increase my losses by 100K something on the amended return. They would also only accept the amended return if I paid the balance, so I paid the balance and then they said, too bad so sad the amended return will not reduce the amount you owe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPenWhy would you not amend your return instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Did your tax guy just pull a loss number out of nowhere against the w2-g's he had access to?
The loss number was basically against the w2g's that we had since he said that the loss can not exceed the winnings because then they would wonder where that money came from etc...
I always recommend reporting wins and losses at 115-120% of wins for which you have records for this very reason, if someone is just making up numbers. Just in case something like this happens.
Just an FYI. You never have to pay the liabilty to file an amended return. It is not Trump's bond.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNKDid file an amended return. They said I could not file an amended return to reduce the balance. Remember, I already filed my losses as XXX,XXX, this would increase my losses by 100K something on the amended return. They would also only accept the amended return if I paid the balance, so I paid the balance and then they said, too bad so sad the amended return will not reduce the amount you owe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPenWhy would you not amend your return instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Did your tax guy just pull a loss number out of nowhere against the w2-g's he had access to?
The loss number was basically against the w2g's that we had since he said that the loss can not exceed the winnings because then they would wonder where that money came from etc...
It is actually worse than this. In some states the employer only has to make up what tips didn't cover. So if after tips they make $5/hr ($2 +$3 tips) but they're guaranteed $7 by minimum wage - then what you tip is effectively going into the owners pocket. Incredible. Stuff like this gets started and people don't care enough to fix it so it is abused forever going forward. Nicer people subsidizing everyone else. (Or at least the paranoid)Quote:
Originally Posted by jdog
You see this with pooled tips. The people pick up the tips and give them to their manager person. Buffets and such.
If it is a cheaper place and counter service then I tip 10% now. Maybe more if a really cheap place and especially if cash.
To some degree I believe the waitstaff doesn't care much about the tips. When you click "tip" there is no indication who it goes to .. like a foodtruck where employee can't take cash. She isn't even likely to be legal. Why should I seriously think the tip is going into her pocket? Yet I feel obligated to do it so she won't fuck with my food somehow. Then we don't even know if she gets it.
I've been lowering my tips greatly. At cheap places where waitresses clearly aren't making as much I can tip 25-50%. So much is counter service though and can't even use cash...
AFAIK you can see all your w2gs on the IRS website these days so this sort of thing shouldn't really happen. I'm not even sure what particular value would be in keeping the physical W2-Gs for this reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPenIt all boils down to you having screwed up records. That's kind of what I thought. If you're going to fabricate numbers to correlate to w2-g wins then, yeah, you best not miss any. Your accountant is wrong about the loss not being able to exceed the win. You can have whatever losses in your case you just wouldn't receive any credit for them above offsetting wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNKDid file an amended return. They said I could not file an amended return to reduce the balance. Remember, I already filed my losses as XXX,XXX, this would increase my losses by 100K something on the amended return. They would also only accept the amended return if I paid the balance, so I paid the balance and then they said, too bad so sad the amended return will not reduce the amount you owe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPen
The loss number was basically against the w2g's that we had since he said that the loss can not exceed the winnings because then they would wonder where that money came from etc...
I always recommend reporting wins and losses at 115-120% of wins for which you have records for this very reason, if someone is just making up numbers. Just in case something like this happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPenIt all boils down to you having screwed up records. That's kind of what I thought. If you're going to fabricate numbers to correlate to w2-g wins then, yeah, you best not miss any. Your accountant is wrong about the loss not being able to exceed the win. You can have whatever losses in your case you just wouldn't receive any credit for them above offsetting wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNKDid file an amended return. They said I could not file an amended return to reduce the balance. Remember, I already filed my losses as XXX,XXX, this would increase my losses by 100K something on the amended return. They would also only accept the amended return if I paid the balance, so I paid the balance and then they said, too bad so sad the amended return will not reduce the amount you owe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPen
The loss number was basically against the w2g's that we had since he said that the loss can not exceed the winnings because then they would wonder where that money came from etc...
I always recommend reporting wins and losses at 115-120% of wins for which you have records for this very reason, if someone is just making up numbers. Just in case something like this happens.
Filing as self employed with a business that also reports a lot of expenses, I get a lot of grief about expenses being believable or not. I have records for everything but it is a 7 figure business. He reported as much as he could without throwing up flags he said...
It's over... I don't work with him anymore... I overpaid the IRS and the whole situation sucks...
Good news is I won't do that again.
I have experienced, and know several others who have experienced, the same thing with the IRS.
You can actually contest it successfully by argument, as I did.
But going forward the better approach is to declare a net win equal to (or above as Max suggested) the W2G amount, and then whatever you need for the loss.
Of course if you're not filling as a professional and you were planning to take the standard deduction you're going to lose that.
I'm a recreational gambler and do not file as a professional and I itemize as opposed to taking the standard deduction so that I can offset all wins against losses.Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
The amounts at stake make it worthwhile not to take the standard deduction.
Meaning you didn't declare enough losses to cover your W2G wins?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionMeaning you didn't declare enough losses to cover your W2G wins?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
ETA I misread your posts. Meaning my declared gambling win was less than my total w2g amounts.
Was this an official audit? Do they send out some probing letter?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburgerCorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionMeaning you didn't declare enough losses to cover your W2G wins?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
ETA I misread your posts. Meaning my declared gambling win was less than my total w2g amounts.
That is incompetence at best... why even waste their time. Unless you have some single W2G for a large amount then this is a complete waste of time for both sides.
It is stuff like this that sends people to the anti-government right.
No it's just a notice for underpayment with a bill for the amount + penalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionWas this an official audit? Do they send out some probing letter?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburgerCorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
ETA I misread your posts. Meaning my declared gambling win was less than my total w2g amounts.
That is incompetence at best... why even waste their time. Unless you have some single W2G for a large amount then this is a complete waste of time for both sides.
It is stuff like this that sends people to the anti-government right.
My guess is they sometimes collect this way (as with Slapinfunk) and so nobody applies any pressure to stop the practice.
So they chose to selectively ignore your loss write-offs ?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburgerNo it's just a notice for underpayment with a bill for the amount + penalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionWas this an official audit? Do they send out some probing letter?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
That is incompetence at best... why even waste their time. Unless you have some single W2G for a large amount then this is a complete waste of time for both sides.
It is stuff like this that sends people to the anti-government right.
My guess is they sometimes collect this way (as with Slapinfunk) and so nobody applies any pressure to stop the practice.
Or was it becasue you wrote off more than the w2g amount and that triggered an issue (because you can only write off up to your wins?)
From what I understand slapinfunk went the other way. He under-declared his losses but the IRS didn't ignore what he did declare. You seem to have a different situation where IRS ignored your declared losses?
IRS scares the fuck out of me. In the past 5 years I've gotten 2 checks >$5k for overpaying. ugh. I should be ashamed but at least if I am audited I have little to be concerned about.
How many gamblers have you known who have had full on audits?
If you declare aggregate wins lower than your w2g total they claim you are underreporting regardless of what aggregate losses you declare.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionSo they chose to selectively ignore your loss write-offs ?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburgerNo it's just a notice for underpayment with a bill for the amount + penalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
My guess is they sometimes collect this way (as with Slapinfunk) and so nobody applies any pressure to stop the practice.
Or was it becasue you wrote off more than the w2g amount and that triggered an issue (because you can only write off up to your wins?)
From what I understand slapinfunk went the other way. He under-declared his losses but the IRS didn't ignore what he did declare. You seem to have a different situation where IRS ignored your declared losses?
IRS scares the fuck out of me. In the past 5 years I've gotten 2 checks >$5k for overpaying. ugh. I should be ashamed but at least if I am audited I have little to be concerned about.
How many gamblers have you known who have had full on audits?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Yes. This is what my accountant warned me of. Then I would need to prove where that extra money came from that I lost.
Yes that's really the question, isn't it? Even before- should I tip this person or even how much should I tip? The question needs to be answered: who is actually benefiting from these tips?Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
My wife and her friends have worked in the service industry for many years and I can tell you that a lot more places tip pool than you probably realize. And almost all places around here require some tip sharing with other employees. IE: Even if your server does not pool with other servers, still a small percentage will go to the bartenders, bussers, sushi chef, etc... So if you ever decide to stiff the server and leave nothing. Guess what?? Many servers still have to tip percentages out to other employees based on your check total, so it actually COSTS them money to serve you because you left nothing. Better watch your back if you ever do this. Personally I will never leave less than 15%, even if the service is awful, maybe they're having a bad day. You never know what someone else is dealing with.
I understand this logic, and I rarely leave zero tip at restaurants.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogYes that's really the question, isn't it? Even before- should I tip this person or even how much should I tip? The question needs to be answered: who is actually benefiting from these tips?Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
My wife and her friends have worked in the service industry for many years and I can tell you that a lot more places tip pool than you probably realize. And almost all places around here require some tip sharing with other employees. IE: Even if your server does not pool with other servers, still a small percentage will go to the bartenders, bussers, sushi chef, etc... So if you ever decide to stiff the server and leave nothing. Guess what?? Many servers still have to tip percentages out to other employees based on your check total, so it actually COSTS them money to serve you because you left nothing. Better watch your back if you ever do this. Personally I will never leave less than 15%, even if the service is awful, maybe they're having a bad day. You never know what someone else is dealing with.
However, if the server is directly confrontational with me, or almost completely absent, I will leave zero tip. My general rule of thumb is, "If it's bad enough to leave zero tip, it's also bad enough to complain about the server to the manager."
So if I don't complain to the manager, I also don't leave zero tip.
I also never penalize the server for kitchen issues or anything else beyond their control.
With that said, the exact structure of tipping out among employees falls into the "not my problem" department. The customer's implied responsibility is to tip the industry standard if the service is at least semi-decent, but they have the right to leave zero if it is substandard. That's why it's optional. If you cannot control yourself and get outright rude and confrontational with customers, then a service job is not for you, and you should take a different type of position. I will never tip anyone who is extremely rude/nasty with me, or completely abandons the service they're supposed to give me. If the "tipping out" causes them to lose money as a result of my non-tip, that's not my problem.
Sure, tipping is "Optional:" except when it isn't.
What do you do in a situation where you and a large party go to a place that charges a fixed tip percentage for parties over a certain number, and the service sucks?
I suppose all you could do is complain, but would they give you a break?
Dunno.
There are 5 simple and easy rules for tipping in this country:
1. If the restaurant tip % is fixed and isn't optional, that's just the way it is. Complaining about servers, service, or food is meaningless. Who the f*** cares how they treat the next customer.
2. NEVER be stupid enuf to tip any casino personnel, regardless of how much they try to give you the false impression that you're in your "home away from home" BS.
3. NEVER be so mindless as to leave a tip for hotel room-cleaners. Other people's salaries are none of your business. If you're dumb and weak enuf to be "concerned" about their wages and/or quality of life, you belong in Joe Biden's administration or in a gay bar.
4. If you find yourself caving in to the pressures of punching in a tip on those card readers in fast food restaurants, go the full route and leave tips at Walgreens, banks, doctor offices, grocery stores, etc. Everyone loves to watch a sap in action.
5. If you REALLY love tipping and enjoy traveling the USA, go to the Spearmint Rhino often and shove as many bills as you like into the g-strings. They don't wear them in Hawaii.
Depends on where you are. At my wife's current restaurant they would probably reduce or entirely take off the gratuity, but it's a very high end place. The service is generally excellent. But they are also required to ask if you accept the 20% before they hand you the check, so it's kind of speak now or forever hold your peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
The mandatory gratuity comes in handy so servers can actually make any money on 'certain' types of people. When checks are very high, sometimes young people or other 'certain' types of people refuse to tip anywhere near 15-20% because either they can't actually afford to eat there or just simply can't stomach giving such a large amount of money for a tip. This can often be attributed to the culture of certain ethnicities or people who don't live in the US.
The "dancers" in stumptown don't wear 'em either: full nudity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
There's more strip bars in Portland per capita than any other US city.
You certainly have the right to leave nothing as you see fit but keep in mind that some people go to a restaurant and enjoy verbally abusing the employees and managers. As a server you generally have to take a lot of shit from people and you never know how many obnoxious aholes your server may be dealing with that day. As you said, it's not a job for everybody. But if you do choose to leave zero then make sure you NEVER eat at that restaurant again. They will remember you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
A classic discussion of the pros and cons of tipping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4sTSIYzDIk
Enough with this talk about tipping on handpays or in any manner anywhere in a casino!
Tip ANYTHING, and you're a weak idiot. Period.
Stifle yourselves.
Not everyone gets the reference:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZOTszoKbE4
Feeling the nostalgia Meathead? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by redietzNot everyone gets the reference:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZOTszoKbE4
Do the ‘certain’ types of people that don’t tip (the ones that live here in the US) rhyme with crack?Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogDepends on where you are. At my wife's current restaurant they would probably reduce or entirely take off the gratuity, but it's a very high end place. The service is generally excellent. But they are also required to ask if you accept the 20% before they hand you the check, so it's kind of speak now or forever hold your peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
The mandatory gratuity comes in handy so servers can actually make any money on 'certain' types of people. When checks are very high, sometimes young people or other 'certain' types of people refuse to tip anywhere near 15-20% because either they can't actually afford to eat there or just simply can't stomach giving such a large amount of money for a tip. This can often be attributed to the culture of certain ethnicities or people who don't live in the US.
I believe often times they see it as a form of reparations.
Probably the best match to your new avatar is to Akinwande Oluwole Babatunde Soyinka (Wole Soyinka).Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Perignom
Of Germany and Nigeria: Einstein and Soyinka
https://www.modernghana.com/news/626...d-soyinka.html
Quote:
Much of his writing has been concerned with "the oppressive boot and the irrelevance of the colour of the foot that wears it". During the regime of General Sani Abacha (1993–98), Soyinka escaped from Nigeria on a motorcycle via the "NADECO Route". Abacha later proclaimed a death sentence against him "in absentia". With civilian rule restored to Nigeria in 1999, Soyinka returned to his nation.
Thanks for locking in my old avatar. Ha.Quote:
In December 1932 Einstein decided to leave Germany forever (he would never go back). It became obvious to Einstein that his life was in danger. A Nazi organization published a magazine with Einstein's picture and the caption “Not Yet Hanged” on the cover.