Wolf Run Eclipse Strategy

I published my WRE strategy in a closed forum a couple of months ago. Seen some recent scuttlebutt about it here so decided to post it up here too. If you don't know the game here's a link to Vegas Matt playing the game:

https://youtu.be/QeSsjFgvfj8

I’ve got my own stats for WRE. It’s big enough sample that I use it as a Guide.

Main game 1979 spins, 54.8% return. Yeah, needs to be bigger.

20,000 main game spins:

Mini, 85, avg 235 spins, minor 31, avg 645, major 7, avg 2857

Overall avg is 163 spins to hit something

Free games value

Mini 423 spins 1360 units returned, avg 3.21 units per free spin

Minor 156 spins 962 units returned, avg. 6.17 units per free spin

Major 82 spins 967 units returned,avg 11.8 units per free spin
Meter movement. This is how often free games symbol landed on 5th reel per 5837 spins.

Mini 127 avg 46 spins per hit

Minor 66 avg 88

Major 14 avg 417

Meter contributions. This is the value of a free spin divided by the frequency of the symbol landing on the 5th reel:

Mini 3.21/46 = 7%

Minor 6.17/88 = 7.01%

Major 14/417 = 3.36%

Value of a banked free spin per the frequency of catching it:

Mini 3.21/235 = 1.366%

Minor 6.17/645 = .955%
Major 11.8/2857= .413%

Value of 5 free games ar reset

Mini 6.88%

Minor 4.78%

Major 2.06%

Totals

Main Game 54.8%

5 mini free games 6.8%

Mini meter 7%

5 Minor free games 4.775%

Minor meter 7%

5 Major free games 2.06%

Major meter 3.36%

TOTAL 85.83%

numbers change as more spins are added. It’s not perfect but it’s the guide I use.

So how do we put a play together. The important stats:

Main game payback 54.8%.
Value of a Mini Free Game 1.3666%
Value of Minor Free Game .955%
Value of Major Free Game .413%
Mini Meter 7%
Minor Meter 7%
Major Meter 3.36%

The Mega and the Grand are long shot hits not calculated into the play. If you hit it, fine, it's all gravy but I don't factor these kinds of long shots into plays.

So let's take the numbers in Vegas Matt's video:

Major 7
Minor 22
Mini 12

Base game 54.8%
Major 7 X .413 = 2.891%
Minor 22 X .955 = 21.01
Mini 12 X .1366 = 16.392%

Totals to 95.093

The only meter I would throw in is the Mini at 7%. The problem with the higher meters is you don't have much equity. Take the Major for example. You will hit it once for every 12 times you hit the Mini. So 11 times out of 12 the money you put in the Major meter goes for naught.

You'll hit the Minor about once per 3 times you hit the mini. So 2 times out of 3 the money you put in that meter goes for naught.

So with a 7% meter thrown in it would be at 102%. Not my cup of tea. I like at least a 10% edge so would wait for higher numbers.

Thanks for posting this Mickey. Using your terrific stats, I decided to excerpt the cheapskate combo possibilities that fit my risk profile (only considering the mini and minor - I'm not down for the 2,857 major grindfest/timesucker and large BR requirements attached to pursuing the major). As you can see, there are actually 19 situations where both the mini and minor free banked games are in the teens that yield an RTP above 100% (these don't fit your 110% RTP criterion however). I use a base RTP of 61.8% (54.8+7) for this extraction.
Best, TP.

Excellent post Mickey, thanks for sharing. In your experience are the cat and owl similar? Seems to be the case for me but very volatile games so hard to get a good feel for it.

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

Excellent post Mickey, thanks for sharing. In your experience are the cat and owl similar? Seems to be the case for me but very volatile games so hard to get a good feel for it.

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Probably exactly the same. IGT is known for having different skins for the same game.

Thank you Crimm, this post adds a lot of clarification, but I have to wonder why you only add one meter (like the Mini) to your RTP calculation... I understand its because you believe you are unlikely to realize the equity of the money you put into the Minor and especially Major meters. However, if that is the case, why are you adding the RTP value of the banked Minor and Major free games in your calculation? Isn't that also equity you're unlikely to realize?

Also, you said "You'll hit the Minor about once per 3 times you hit the mini. So 2 times out of 3 the money you put in that meter goes for naught." Don't you mean 3 times out of 4? Because if you hit the Minor once for every three times you hit the Mini, that would constitute 4 separate hits, not 3, right?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

Excellent post Mickey, thanks for sharing. In your experience are the cat and owl similar? Seems to be the case for me but very volatile games so hard to get a good feel for it.

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Probably exactly the same. IGT is known for having different skins for the same game.

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I got a look at the Wild Serrengetti Cats today. It's different than Wolf Run Eclipse. It had 3 rows with 5 columns where WRE had 4 rows with 5 columns. So different game.

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Originally Posted by LuckyFour

Thank you Crimm, this post adds a lot of clarification, but I have to wonder why you only add one meter (like the Mini) to your RTP calculation... I understand its because you believe you are unlikely to realize the equity of the money you put into the Minor and especially Major meters. However, if that is the case, why are you adding the RTP value of the banked Minor and Major free games in your calculation? Isn't that also equity you're unlikely to realize?

Also, you said "You'll hit the Minor about once per 3 times you hit the mini. So 2 times out of 3 the money you put in that meter goes for naught." Don't you mean 3 times out of 4? Because if you hit the Minor once for every three times you hit the Mini, that would constitute 4 separate hits, not 3, right?

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Using perfect numbers you will hit the Minor once per 648 games and the Mini 2.76 time per 648 games.

If I were playing until I hit the major then I would put all 3 meters in the calculation. But if it looks like I will be quitting the play after hitting the Mini then I don't include the 2 higher meters. Hitting the Mini meter usually ends the play unless you run up the Minor meter.

For instance, freq. on the Major is 2857. Freq of Mini is 235. So I will hit the Major once per 12 Mini hits.

The meter rate for the Major is 3.36%. Using perfect numbers I will play 235 spins 12 times to put an average of 8 units per play in the meter, or 95 units total. But the 1 time I hit the major I will only get an additional 8 or less units. This is the effect of quitting after hitting the Mini and it's the reason I don't include the Major meter in the play.

When you hit the Mini meter then quit you are effectively leaving behind the money you put in the Major meter.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

Excellent post Mickey, thanks for sharing. In your experience are the cat and owl similar? Seems to be the case for me but very volatile games so hard to get a good feel for it.

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Probably exactly the same. IGT is known for having different skins for the same game.

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I got a look at the Wild Serrengetti Cats today. It's different than Wolf Run Eclipse. It had 3 rows with 5 columns where WRE had 4 rows with 5 columns. So different game.

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Yes, but having played all three a fair amount I think criteria is likely similar, a little lower for the owl as it has no mega.

This game is so trashy everywhere it gets no churn and the rare good plays are also trash. I would be highly skeptical if I found this game in a casino which was foreign to me. I used to kill ths machine regularly and now it is essentially as if it were removed.

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Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday

This game is so trashy everywhere it gets no churn and the rare good plays are also trash. I would be highly skeptical if I found this game in a casino which was foreign to me. I used to kill ths machine regularly and now it is essentially as if it were removed.

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Vegas Matt also got VERY bad payouts and dead spins and ended up having ONE good Bonus round that saved his ass and gave him a $3,000 profit.

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Originally Posted by Tasha

[Vegas Matt also got VERY bad payouts and dead spins and ended up having ONE good Bonus round that saved his ass and gave him a $3,000 profit.

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You too are getting your ass whooped at Bingo.

Maybe you'll have a big WIN like he did...nah, probably not, but it's the "not knowing" that keeps you coming back, eh?

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Originally Posted by MisterV

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Originally Posted by Tasha

[Vegas Matt also got VERY bad payouts and dead spins and ended up having ONE good Bonus round that saved his ass and gave him a $3,000 profit.

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You too are getting your ass whooped at Bingo.

Maybe you'll have a big WIN like he did...nah, probably not, but it's the "not knowing" that keeps you coming back, eh?

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Vegas Matt was playing $125 a SPIN on a Slot machine. Bingo cards are about $125 coin in for each card.

Also, I have gotten REALLY big wins on Bingo.

I won $1,000

I won $500

I won $500

I won $300

I won $600

I won $200

I won $366

I won $300

I won $300

I won $300.

:)

So, $4,366 in Bingo and that's just the wins that are over $100. :)

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Originally Posted by Tasha

I have gotten REALLY big wins on Bingo...So, $4,366 in Bingo and that's just the wins that are over $100. :)

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Looks like normal variance.

So, why are you whining and pissing and moaning all the time when / if you lose at Bingo?

Makes you seem like a little bitch, no real insult intended.

We ALL fucking lose at times, Tasha...suck it up, why dontcha?

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Originally Posted by MisterV

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Originally Posted by Tasha

I have gotten REALLY big wins on Bingo...So, $4,366 in Bingo and that's just the wins that are over $100. :)

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Looks like normal variance.

So, why are you whining and pissing and moaning all the time when / if you lose at Bingo?

Makes you seem like a little bitch, no real insult intended.

We ALL fucking lose at times, Tasha...suck it up, why dontcha?

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Because I'm LOSING at Bingo! I haven't won Bingo at my main Local Casino since March 19th! If it weren't for the other Casino Bingo where I win $300 a month, I would have gotten completely played by Bingo!

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I published my WRE strategy in a closed forum a couple of months ago. Seen some recent scuttlebutt about it here so decided to post it up here too. If you don't know the game here's a link to Vegas Matt playing the game:

https://youtu.be/QeSsjFgvfj8

I’ve got my own stats for WRE. It’s big enough sample that I use it as a Guide.

Main game 1979 spins, 54.8% return. Yeah, needs to be bigger.

20,000 main game spins:

Mini, 85, avg 235 spins, minor 31, avg 645, major 7, avg 2857

Overall avg is 163 spins to hit something

Free games value

Mini 423 spins 1360 units returned, avg 3.21 units per free spin

Minor 156 spins 962 units returned, avg. 6.17 units per free spin

Major 82 spins 967 units returned,avg 11.8 units per free spin
Meter movement. This is how often free games symbol landed on 5th reel per 5837 spins.

Mini 127 avg 46 spins per hit

Minor 66 avg 88

Major 14 avg 417

Meter contributions. This is the value of a free spin divided by the frequency of the symbol landing on the 5th reel:

Mini 3.21/46 = 7%

Minor 6.17/88 = 7.01%

Major 14/417 = 3.36%

Value of a banked free spin per the frequency of catching it:

Mini 3.21/235 = 1.366%

Minor 6.17/645 = .955%
Major 11.8/2857= .413%

Value of 5 free games ar reset

Mini 6.88%

Minor 4.78%

Major 2.06%

Totals

Main Game 54.8%

5 mini free games 6.8%

Mini meter 7%

5 Minor free games 4.775%

Minor meter 7%

5 Major free games 2.06%

Major meter 3.36%

TOTAL 85.83%

numbers change as more spins are added. It’s not perfect but it’s the guide I use.

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Excellent work as usual, MC! I just joined today in order to post here for two reasons…

First, I wanted to thank you for this valuable information!

Second, I wanted to point out a slight error in your calculation, as it affects the overall return and the play point calculation(s). Again, it’s a small factor that won’t matter much to those who use a large buffer such as a 10% desired edge.

Under the heading “Meter contributions”, you stated the Major as 14/417 = 3.36%. Based on the calculations for the other meters, I believe that should be 11.8/417 = 2.83%, which constitutes an overstatement of RTP by 0.53%. Therefore, the total RTP would be 85.30%, according to this minor correction. This may also affect any play point calculation involving the Major. I’ll leave those calculations to the reader, as everyone may have their own criteria…

As I said, MC, great work! I wanted to add that I do not dispute your data.

For what it’s worth, you and I have corresponded previously on WoV regarding a VP varietal involving joker(s) and a vault… I use a different handle on that site.

Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by Sea-Note

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I published my WRE strategy in a closed forum a couple of months ago. Seen some recent scuttlebutt about it here so decided to post it up here too. If you don't know the game here's a link to Vegas Matt playing the game:

https://youtu.be/QeSsjFgvfj8

I’ve got my own stats for WRE. It’s big enough sample that I use it as a Guide.

Main game 1979 spins, 54.8% return. Yeah, needs to be bigger.

20,000 main game spins:

Mini, 85, avg 235 spins, minor 31, avg 645, major 7, avg 2857

Overall avg is 163 spins to hit something

Free games value

Mini 423 spins 1360 units returned, avg 3.21 units per free spin

Minor 156 spins 962 units returned, avg. 6.17 units per free spin

Major 82 spins 967 units returned,avg 11.8 units per free spin
Meter movement. This is how often free games symbol landed on 5th reel per 5837 spins.

Mini 127 avg 46 spins per hit

Minor 66 avg 88

Major 14 avg 417

Meter contributions. This is the value of a free spin divided by the frequency of the symbol landing on the 5th reel:

Mini 3.21/46 = 7%

Minor 6.17/88 = 7.01%

Major 14/417 = 3.36%

Value of a banked free spin per the frequency of catching it:

Mini 3.21/235 = 1.366%

Minor 6.17/645 = .955%
Major 11.8/2857= .413%

Value of 5 free games ar reset

Mini 6.88%

Minor 4.78%

Major 2.06%

Totals

Main Game 54.8%

5 mini free games 6.8%

Mini meter 7%

5 Minor free games 4.775%

Minor meter 7%

5 Major free games 2.06%

Major meter 3.36%

TOTAL 85.83%

numbers change as more spins are added. It’s not perfect but it’s the guide I use.

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Excellent work as usual, MC! I just joined today in order to post here for two reasons…

First, I wanted to thank you for this valuable information!

Second, I wanted to point out a slight error in your calculation, as it affects the overall return and the play point calculation(s). Again, it’s a small factor that won’t matter much to those who use a large buffer such as a 10% desired edge.

Under the heading “Meter contributions”, you stated the Major as 14/417 = 3.36%. Based on the calculations for the other meters, I believe that should be 11.8/417 = 2.83%, which constitutes an overstatement of RTP by 0.53%. Therefore, the total RTP would be 85.30%, according to this minor correction. This may also affect any play point calculation involving the Major. I’ll leave those calculations to the reader, as everyone may have their own criteria…

As I said, MC, great work! I wanted to add that I do not dispute your data.

For what it’s worth, you and I have corresponded previously on WoV regarding a VP varietal involving joker(s) and a vault… I use a different handle on that site.

Thanks again!

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You're right. Looks like I had a senior moment. That's happening more and more these days.

I must of had that 14 in my mind from the 14 times I caught the major symbol per the 5837 spins. That's definitely the wrong number. I was supposed to use the 11.8 units that a free major game is worth. Thanks for the correction.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I published my WRE strategy in a closed forum a couple of months ago. Seen some recent scuttlebutt about it here so decided to post it up here too. If you don't know the game here's a link to Vegas Matt playing the game:

https://youtu.be/QeSsjFgvfj8

I’ve got my own stats for WRE. It’s big enough sample that I use it as a Guide.

Main game 1979 spins, 54.8% return. Yeah, needs to be bigger.

20,000 main game spins:

Mini, 85, avg 235 spins, minor 31, avg 645, major 7, avg 2857

Overall avg is 163 spins to hit something

Free games value

Mini 423 spins 1360 units returned, avg 3.21 units per free spin

Minor 156 spins 962 units returned, avg. 6.17 units per free spin

Major 82 spins 967 units returned,avg 11.8 units per free spin
Meter movement. This is how often free games symbol landed on 5th reel per 5837 spins.

Mini 127 avg 46 spins per hit

Minor 66 avg 88

Major 14 avg 417

Meter contributions. This is the value of a free spin divided by the frequency of the symbol landing on the 5th reel:

Mini 3.21/46 = 7%

Minor 6.17/88 = 7.01%

Major 14/417 = 3.36%

Value of a banked free spin per the frequency of catching it:

Mini 3.21/235 = 1.366%

Minor 6.17/645 = .955%
Major 11.8/2857= .413%

Value of 5 free games ar reset

Mini 6.88%

Minor 4.78%

Major 2.06%

Totals

Main Game 54.8%

5 mini free games 6.8%

Mini meter 7%

5 Minor free games 4.775%

Minor meter 7%

5 Major free games 2.06%

Major meter 3.36%

TOTAL 85.83%

numbers change as more spins are added. It’s not perfect but it’s the guide I use.

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I had a look at the machine, noticed the different number of paylines on each denom. Do you think the RTP is significantly different between denoms? Do you factor that in?

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Originally Posted by PitBoss321

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I published my WRE strategy in a closed forum a couple of months ago. Seen some recent scuttlebutt about it here so decided to post it up here too. If you don't know the game here's a link to Vegas Matt playing the game:

https://youtu.be/QeSsjFgvfj8

I’ve got my own stats for WRE. It’s big enough sample that I use it as a Guide.

Main game 1979 spins, 54.8% return. Yeah, needs to be bigger.

20,000 main game spins:

Mini, 85, avg 235 spins, minor 31, avg 645, major 7, avg 2857

Overall avg is 163 spins to hit something

Free games value

Mini 423 spins 1360 units returned, avg 3.21 units per free spin

Minor 156 spins 962 units returned, avg. 6.17 units per free spin

Major 82 spins 967 units returned,avg 11.8 units per free spin
Meter movement. This is how often free games symbol landed on 5th reel per 5837 spins.

Mini 127 avg 46 spins per hit

Minor 66 avg 88

Major 14 avg 417

Meter contributions. This is the value of a free spin divided by the frequency of the symbol landing on the 5th reel:

Mini 3.21/46 = 7%

Minor 6.17/88 = 7.01%

Major 14/417 = 3.36%

Value of a banked free spin per the frequency of catching it:

Mini 3.21/235 = 1.366%

Minor 6.17/645 = .955%
Major 11.8/2857= .413%

Value of 5 free games ar reset

Mini 6.88%

Minor 4.78%

Major 2.06%

Totals

Main Game 54.8%

5 mini free games 6.8%

Mini meter 7%

5 Minor free games 4.775%

Minor meter 7%

5 Major free games 2.06%

Major meter 3.36%

TOTAL 85.83%

numbers change as more spins are added. It’s not perfect but it’s the guide I use.

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I had a look at the machine, noticed the different number of paylines on each denom. Do you think the RTP is significantly different between denoms? Do you factor that in?

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I’ve seen par sheet evidence of an IGT game, Texas Tea, having different paybacks per bet level with lowest bet level at 85% and highest bet level, 5X, at 90%.

I’ve also seen evidence on some games of all bet levels paying the same.

I’ve seen evidence that very high bet level, like $8+, have higher paybacks. But I’m not in the range of play that Vegas Matt is. I see him take plays that I would refuse. But I don’t know how much knowledge he has. The more I learn about him the more credit I gave him.

One of the things I do is look for differences in the units returned per the pay scales at each bet level. I’ve found a lot of differences in my market and they always are in favor of the higher bet level.

Say a certain line pay will pay 50 for 1 on the lower bet level but pays 60 for one on the higher bet level then that would indicate a higher payback.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitBoss321

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I published my WRE strategy in a closed forum a couple of months ago. Seen some recent scuttlebutt about it here so decided to post it up here too. If you don't know the game here's a link to Vegas Matt playing the game:

https://youtu.be/QeSsjFgvfj8

I’ve got my own stats for WRE. It’s big enough sample that I use it as a Guide.

Main game 1979 spins, 54.8% return. Yeah, needs to be bigger.

20,000 main game spins:

Mini, 85, avg 235 spins, minor 31, avg 645, major 7, avg 2857

Overall avg is 163 spins to hit something

Free games value

Mini 423 spins 1360 units returned, avg 3.21 units per free spin

Minor 156 spins 962 units returned, avg. 6.17 units per free spin

Major 82 spins 967 units returned,avg 11.8 units per free spin
Meter movement. This is how often free games symbol landed on 5th reel per 5837 spins.

Mini 127 avg 46 spins per hit

Minor 66 avg 88

Major 14 avg 417

Meter contributions. This is the value of a free spin divided by the frequency of the symbol landing on the 5th reel:

Mini 3.21/46 = 7%

Minor 6.17/88 = 7.01%

Major 14/417 = 3.36%

Value of a banked free spin per the frequency of catching it:

Mini 3.21/235 = 1.366%

Minor 6.17/645 = .955%
Major 11.8/2857= .413%

Value of 5 free games ar reset

Mini 6.88%

Minor 4.78%

Major 2.06%

Totals

Main Game 54.8%

5 mini free games 6.8%

Mini meter 7%

5 Minor free games 4.775%

Minor meter 7%

5 Major free games 2.06%

Major meter 3.36%

TOTAL 85.83%

numbers change as more spins are added. It’s not perfect but it’s the guide I use.

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I had a look at the machine, noticed the different number of paylines on each denom. Do you think the RTP is significantly different between denoms? Do you factor that in?

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I’ve seen par sheet evidence of an IGT game, Texas Tea, having different paybacks per bet level with lowest bet level at 85% and highest bet level, 5X, at 90%.

I’ve also seen evidence on some games of all bet levels paying the same.

I’ve seen evidence that very high bet level, like $8+, have higher paybacks. But I’m not in the range of play that Vegas Matt is. I see him take plays that I would refuse. But I don’t know how much knowledge he has. The more I learn about him the more credit I gave him.

One of the things I do is look for differences in the units returned per the pay scales at each bet level. I’ve found a lot of differences in my market and they always are in favor of the higher bet level.

Say a certain line pay will pay 50 for 1 on the lower bet level but pays 60 for one on the higher bet level then that would indicate a higher payback.

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Since most of the data is gathered on lower denom plays (since most players play at lower denoms, and, as such, that is where the majority of plays are encountered) - the numbers are more accurate for lower denoms and accurate enough to make money on higher denoms. Since lower denoms usually have lower RTP, the numbers you very kindly provided to the community will work at least as well for higher denoms IMHO.

Have you noticed consistent patterns in meter contributions at higher denominations, or are they too variable to rely on for strategic adjustments?

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Originally Posted by NateBlazewind

Have you noticed consistent patterns in meter contributions at higher denominations, or are they too variable to rely on for strategic adjustments?

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This almost seems to not be AI but give it a bit of thought and the question doesn't make much sense.

This user made 7 posts today. I feel like we are being infiltrated by machines!

This probably ruined someones day.

105!... maybe more than one person. :eek:

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Originally Posted by jdog

105!... maybe more than one person. :eek:

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Hadn’t even thought of that, quite possibly!

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

This probably ruined someones day.

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Imagine if it was 8 bucks a spin or higher (no denom and bet level is shown). Thanks for posting it Ben.

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

This probably ruined someones day.

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Imagine if it was 8 bucks a spin or higher (no denom and bet level is shown). Thanks for posting it Ben.

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Sure!

Yeah I wondered that too, it was just a picture posted online but if it was a big bet…..