Rob Singer: did you really write this?

As many of you know, there are hundreds of members who read this Forum and few post. They do send me emails. Quite frankly, they are afraid to post -- they just don't want to get involved in the heated arguments that go on here.

But one of the non-posting members sent me what he says is part of an article that Rob Singer published on his website. It challenges Rob's claims about quitting when ahead and quitting when he reaches a win goal. It also challenges Rob's criticism of me for using recent winnings to continue playing.

Here is what was sent to me:

From "M & Aria Highlight A Very Nice Trip", February 19, 2010

(This appears near the bottom of the article. The previous paragraph to this one is about the server based slots at Aria, which is important only in how it relates to the first sentence of this paragraph)

But I didn’t care about any of that. Instead, we ordered a couple of drinks and this time my wife joined me as I played $1 DDB video poker. Within minutes, we had an attendant paying us $2000 for four Aces with the kicker. Then minutes later, still on $1 DDB (because only addicts go UP in denomination after winning a jackpot) we hit it again for ANOTHER $2000 hand pay. After that I played 50c alone while my wife read for almost 2 hours before we finally left. But I was not finished with Aces as you’ll soon see.

Back at the M it took maybe 5 minutes to hit four Aces with the kicker AGAIN, this time on 50c. That ended play at that casino.
And the final paragraph:

We arrived home almost $4500 ahead, but according to "advantage players” we came home losers because we played only negative expectation games that cost us X amount per hour of play. See how misled they are? I’m laughing at them all the way to the bank, just as I have for the 11 years I was playing as a professional video poker player.

Alan, do you have ADD? (I had to say that in jest, because I just laugh at all the phoney "designer diseases" being talked up these days).

Do you see where I wrote about how I used to play for 11 years as a professional vp player? This particular trip only included casino visits where I had no plan, no pre-set goals, and I did not claim I was going to do anything but visit a few casinos and play a little. My wife was with me so she gobbled up all the cash on my handpays as I bought he a few drinks.

So where exactly does this go against anything I espouse or say I'm going to do? In my articles post-professional play, I've always stated if I went in with a goal and a plan, or not, and what happened. Sometimes I have those and sometimes I do not. But for sure, if I said I was going to do X then I did it, balls on.

My criticism of your fiasco at Caesars stands. That was one of the most blatant cases of how a casino controls their most prolific action-craving players that I've ever come across.

Alan:

Rob probably did what he said he was going to do? Maybe before he walked into the casinos he said: "I will hit four Aces with a kicker three times today."? Also there is a demarcation line between 'professional' and 'recreational' status to consider here, too.

Okay. I learned my lesson. From now on I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to play to my heart's content.

In the meantime, congratulations on your double standard and double speak Rob-- you are the king.

You can keep to your strategy when you play like a pro, and you can do whatever you want to do when you're not playing like a pro.

In the future, when you post comments here, be sure you tell us if these are comments coming from a pro or not.

edited to add: Oh, and thanks Rob. I thoroughly enjoyed my $2,000 profit fiasco.

Hey! I think we're becoming individuals! I'll just play 20 hands (100 credits) and not LOSE 100 credits whenever I perceive the games aren't responding so well. Let's get with it!

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Originally Posted by Count Room

Alan:

Rob probably did what he said he was going to do? Maybe before he walked into the casinos he said: "I will hit four Aces with a kicker three times today."? Also there is a demarcation line between 'professional' and 'recreational' status to consider here, too.

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First part, no. Next part, as I've identified many times, my professional playing career--which I retired from prior to making the Aria & M visits--ALWAYS included specific session bankrolls, win goals, and quitting points. Anything after that is done just like any other regular playing local or tourist, with a much smaller gambling bankroll, usually with no specific pre-set goals other than maybe under an hour limit because I get bored just sitting there, and just for fun much of the time. In rare cases, I will play ARTT and quit either at a goal or when I'm sick of playing, which as I said is usually within an hour or so. In either case, when I'm in Nevada and have casinos and LV all nearby, I play once every two weeks, if that. Life has so much more to offer us than sitting for hours at machines any more.

C'Mon Alan, the only double standard here is saying you're going to do one thing, then doing another....and after ASKING for input, no less. You know I don't play as a pro any longer so why say that I sometimes do. The switch was turned and I did what I say. These days I simply play like anyone else when I do play. And the pair of $2000 profits you took are nothing to snuff at. It's just the result of bad decisions and an inability to stop. I really wonder what it was that allowed you to stop losing and actually take those wins home? Maybe you DO have the makings of a disciplinarian.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I've identified many times, my professional playing career--which I retired from prior to making the Aria & M visits--ALWAYS included specific session bankrolls, win goals, and quitting points. Anything after that is done just like any other regular playing local or tourist, with a much smaller gambling bankroll, usually with no specific pre-set goals other than maybe under an hour limit because I get bored just sitting there, and just for fun much of the time.

C'Mon Alan, the only double standard here is saying you're going to do one thing, then doing another....and after ASKING for input, no less. You know I don't play as a pro any longer so why say that I sometimes do. The switch was turned and I did what I say. These days I simply play like anyone else when I do play. And the pair of $2000 profits you took are nothing to snuff at. It's just the result of bad decisions and an inability to stop. I really wonder what it was that allowed you to stop losing and actually take those wins home? Maybe you DO have the makings of a disciplinarian.

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Rob, you did a lot of damage to yourself in your attacks -- calling me an addict. The damage was done personally and professionally. You had no right to make your attack when you yourself fail to follow your own professional advice now that you say you no longer play professionally.

Are we to think that professional advice is no good for non professional players? Well, Rob, I am not a professional player so I guess that means your professional advice is worthless.

Your attacks are certainly worthless. And frankly, what good is your professional advice to anyone who sees you don't even follow it now as recreational player. So what good is your advice anyway?

Here's a lesson for Rob Singer:

Rob, I learned a very important lesson when I was just a kid, more than 50 years ago. And I have followed this lesson every day of my life.

I grew up in a small town with only one new car dealer. It was Marsi Motors. It was a Lincoln/Mercury dealer. I remember driving with my Dad and we passed John Marsi (the dealer) in his brand new Lincoln. And my Dad said to me, "Mr. Marsi has the new Lincoln." And being a 7 or 8 year old I asked, "why did he get a new car?" And my Dad said, "if he doesn't get a new car, who should?"

So, Rob you wrote books and had a website and wrote newspaper columns about the best way to play video poker -- the SINGER SYSTEM. So my friend, like Mr. Marsi getting a new car each year, if you don't follow your own system consistently, who should??

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Here's a lesson for Rob Singer:

Rob, I learned a very important lesson when I was just a kid, more than 50 years ago. And I have followed this lesson every day of my life.

I grew up in a small town with only one new car dealer. It was Marsi Motors. It was a Lincoln/Mercury dealer. I remember driving with my Dad and we passed John Marsi (the dealer) in his brand new Lincoln. And my Dad said to me, "Mr. Marsi has the new Lincoln." And being a 7 or 8 year old I asked, "why did he get a new car?" And my Dad said, "if he doesn't get a new car, who should?"

So, Rob you wrote books and had a website and wrote newspaper columns about the best way to play video poker -- the SINGER SYSTEM. So my friend, like Mr. Marsi getting a new car each year, if you don't follow your own system consistently, who should??

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He should have taught you the entire lesson.

Say you were a professional baseball player. During your career--the time when it REALLY MATTERED, because that was how you made your living--you practiced seriously, you played seriously, and everything you did relating to your career you took seriously. Then the inevitable happens - along comes older age and retirement. But are you never to play the game you made your living on, again? Of course not, if you're fortunate enough to still be healthy and have whatever money is needed to get a few pick-up games with the family and friends together for some fun. Will you go all out and play as seriously as you did in your professional career? Not a chance, because what was once being done to earn money is now being done as R&R at a time when working for a living is no longer required.

Are you hip to this? :)

I know you're not happy over my calling you an addict, but really, can you tell yourself that you ARE NOT a pathological gambler with an action-craving problem? For you to continue to deny this and then constantly bring the subject up only means one thing--you are more than concerned about your being a gambling addict. I can see how that issue bothers you, but I'm,only trying to help as I've said, because I've been there and I know ALL the signs. I can always almost feel the sweat form on your palms as you over-anxiously chirp about large amounts of freeplay, last night's visit to some Indian casino, the thrill of going to the great gift "giveaway" where you'll finally be able to get some revenge for all the beatings you've taken for not having any structure or discipline in your play, or that long-anticipated poker tournament coming up tomorrow. I really do believe that gambling is a controlling factor in your life. Like I said, maybe you have so much money that it doesn't matter, but maybe it does. That's why I say what I do....in case it does.

Rob, the emails tell me it's not worth any further discussion. You not only shot yourself in the foot, but you destroyed your own credibility. People now know you don't practice what you preach.

Fortunately I only presented your "special plays" on this website and did not get into any details about your other strategies -- otherwise I would have to amend the articles to point out your hypocrisy.

Again, you remain confused over what I've told you in person and in writing, and it has GOT to be on purpose because you're not this dumb. My other strategies that you say are hypocritical were all used during my professional play years. Now, when I play, I play like you or any other regular Joe with an rare ARTT and/or some special plays thrown in --exactly as I announced in my last few articles on my website. So yes, I am indeed practicing what I preach.

It's too apparent that you will not get over my opinion of your involvement in video poker. So may I suggest this: Make up a story about going to Rincon or some other Indian joint I suggested you stay away from, and say you played your $250 in freeplay on the $5 Super Double Aces game or whatever gimmick game they've got you hooked on. Then say you cashed out with $750 because you hit quad 6's. Then, for a final sneer, write that you kept on playing after again changing your mind, and hit the progressive royal for $35000 or whatever it is. IN MY FACE!! Because that's the only thing that'll take care of the hair on your butt over this situation that YOU created.

Yes, you get e-mails because readers are too afraid to post anonymously. Makes perfect sense. And my credibility? Why is that important? It's an issue that's a million miles away these days because, and I tire of saying this, I have a different life now and the only reason I bother posting here is to see if I can help anyone who wants help, since I will still train players as time permits. If you believe I'm doing anything but, then why bother leaving my interviews up? You may still need to gamble and others here may still find how they can't live without it, but to me it's not really anything more than a past career that I can look back on and smile at, and a current form of entertainment that's no more interesting than going to a movie or out to dinner.

I see you arguing with arci for days over live poker, and you do so knowing he has very little knowledge or experience playing it, as well as understanding the only reason he perpetuates these arguments is because it helps fill in his calendar in an otherwise dismal existence of basic lonliness. So you guys have at it--I've had my fun with him, and whether he cares to admit/accept it or not, my back & forth with him has helped him through his struggles and I've been doing it out of the kindness of my heart. But now, alas, your star is leaving because I have a real life to live that is SO much more important than video poker or any of this. Maybe those e-mails will stop flying in now.:)

Rob:

I wanted you to know I actually do agree with you on being disciplined and "always doing what you say you are going to do" no matter how hard it feels to get it done! I try to incorporate this philosophy in my general life as much as possible (get problems solved immediately & follow up on everything I promise myself...It's a good feeling when it's properly done). When gambling against -EV machines I do try to incorporate a variant of your strategies and the strictest discipline I can. It's just that....well....I fail at it sometimes! The casinos love this breakdown of discipline, I'm sure, but I'm emphasizing that staying disciplined is not easy in the heat of casino action and playing against VP machines that are considered the "crack cocaine" of casino games. Most times I can get up and walk away when hitting something big or reaching a goal. My personal "leaks" are trying to leave when hitting a LOSS goal (instead of reaching for more $$ in pocket) and I still occasionally screw up a big winner. I don't enjoy typing this out, but it's the truth.

I actually enjoyed how you described Alan being in a situation once he went through the freeplay that he had a crucial decision to make right at that instant while $6,250 ahead. I've been through that critical instance of reaching or surpassing a goal and FAILING a fair number of times myself when thousands ahead, so I'm still trying to correct that and understand why I felt compelled to keep going instead of going out to the parking lot. The glittery casinos will still look the same regardless of how much cash you take home or leave behind that one single night, yes?

I do relate to that "cold sweat" feeling and the feeling of alarm that the action must end because a goal has been reached. I wish you could discuss these critical moments more. You wrote a great post on this earlier around here and I couldn't locate it.

The whole idea of having a plan is a good philosophy. However, being completely rigid so one is not able to react to changing situations is NOT a good philosophy. The very best players know how to utilize both elements to maximize their opportunities.

Alan reacted to unexpected winnings. That in itself is not wrong and is not a sign of addiction. The better question would be whether his changes were smart or not. That should be the issue, but of course, since were dealing with Singer, we can't expect anything of value.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

But now, alas, your star is leaving because I have a real life to live that is SO much more important than video poker or any of this.

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Does this mean what I think it means? :D :D :cool:



Or is it a tease where Rob says one thing and does another? :confused:

Vegas Vic:

Well that DOES put Rob in a bit of a conundrum now, doesn't it? We know that it is very important to "do what we say we're going to do"...so in a sense he has painted himself in a corner by cutting himself off all opportunities to come back and have some more fun, etc. If he does come back does this mean we can mock him for not doing what he says he's going to do at all times?

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Originally Posted by Count Room

If he does come back does this mean we can mock him for not doing what he says he's going to do at all times?

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Well, it depends. Did he say it as a professional, or not?

Ok. I say get over it. I read COUNTLESS times where the guy said he wasn't playing professionally anymore. I've never met the guy and don't in any way pander to him, but at least I can read. It was ALL OVER in the last stages of VPTruth.com and anyone that read the forum KNEW he was over with the strategy because he had reached close enough to 1 mill to forget it. I think the stopping point was when he kept chasing 3 A's longer than he should have, and he was upset that he failed in the discipline part. He WON money, but if there WAS a time where he failed to do what he said, it was then.

But slingshot, I also won money. Yet, I am accused of not having discipline and that seems to be either criminal or the sign of an addict in Rob's eyes. Now we find out that he isn't sticking to his strategy either. Is he also an addict? Is he committing some video poker crime? Does he have the right to attack me when he does not follow his own "professional advice?" I never signed on to his "professional advice" so why must I be obligated to follow it now? And why should anyone even respect his advice when he doesn't follow it himself? Is his advice only for "professional play" and not for "all play"?

One must wonder, huh? Unless of course you drank too much kool-aid.

Alan:

I do agree with you in one respect that Rob took things too far by labelling you as a "gambling addict". His definition is way too broad for my tastes:

When you kept playing after the freeplay was ran through, I would agree with Rob in the sense that it was "undisciplined" but...
A problem gambler would be someone who gambles away money that affects one's normal standard of living.
A gambling ADDICT would be someone like a bookkeeper stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from her employer so she can gamble (You would be amazed at how many times this occurs around the country).

To me it's obvious you don't fit the label "gambling addict", but I sense Rob at the time had high expectations for you to have "iron-clad discipline".
There are many gradations between perfect discipline and a slobberingly out-of-control degenerate gambler.
In the end, it was YOUR money and after pointing out once or twice the crucial decision you had to make after being up $6250 I would have simply dropped the matter.

Let me just make this clear: I like Rob. I even appreciate his strategy of win goals. And I appreciate some of his special plays. And I left Caesars with my win goal intact. I wanted to come home with $2,000 and I did. And I took a chance to come home with more. I didn't but I still did what I set out to do.

Would there have been a discussion had I hit a royal for $20,000 or had I kept playing on the $25/coin machine and hit a royal for $100K?

Gimme a break. Wanna talk about discipline? Let's talk about a video poker professional who claimed to develop a system that he doesn't follow today. Let's talk about a professional player who gave back 54% of his year's income ($35,000) during one trip. I lost a lot of respect for Rob not only for his attack on me but because he just didn't know when to call it quits with his insults and personal attacks on others.

edited to add: One more thing. Normally I don't reveal personal emails, but about a week ago Rob sent me an email conceding he went too far and I thought that would be the end of his attacks on me. But it wasn't. Two days later he was back doing the same crap. He should have had some discipline and called it quits when he said he went too far and was going to call it quits. There are all kinds of "disciplines." There are disciplines in a casino, and there are disciplines when it comes to being a human.

Your points are taken, Alan. I'm not sure what else I can add to this discussion, but thanks for sharing the email and such. Rob is just abrasive, I suppose, like coarse sandpaper?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

But slingshot, I also won money. Yet, I am accused of not having discipline and that seems to be either criminal or the sign of an addict in Rob's eyes. Now we find out that he isn't sticking to his strategy either. Is he also an addict? Is he committing some video poker crime? Does he have the right to attack me when he does not follow his own "professional advice?" I never signed on to his "professional advice" so why must I be obligated to follow it now? And why should anyone even respect his advice when he doesn't follow it himself? Is his advice only for "professional play" and not for "all play"?

One must wonder, huh? Unless of course you drank too much kool-aid.

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On the strategy part-he's stated he's playing once in a while with no particular strategy but whatever feels right. On the other, he can do whatever he wants-just like you can. But if you guys ask for the TRUTH, he's gonna state it no matter what he's doing now. I had a brilliant golf teacher who was the same-revolutionary who was years ahead of his time. I kept wanting him to go worldwide, but he kept saying "there's more to life than golf". I was thoroughly upset with him all the time. It's how I got my avatar name. I couldn't grasp some of his reasoning, so out of desperation he told me to make myself into a slingshot-my arms being the cords, and my clubhead the pouch. It finally clicked.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

On the strategy part-he's stated he's playing once in a while with no particular strategy but whatever feels right. On the other, he can do whatever he wants-just like you can. But if you guys ask for the TRUTH, he's gonna state it no matter what he's doing now. I had a brilliant golf teacher who was the same-revolutionary who was years ahead of his time. I kept wanting him to go worldwide, but he kept saying "there's more to life than golf". I was thoroughly upset with him all the time. It's how I got my avatar name. I couldn't grasp some of his reasoning, so out of desperation he told me to make myself into a slingshot-my arms being the cords, and my clubhead the pouch. It finally clicked.

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Wow that was a wonderful story. But, you seem to be hooked on Singer as much as you were to Golf in the past. The man is no saint, far from it actually. He is extremely judgemental towards anybody that doesn't share and adapt his views instantly. He lost credibility by not practicing what he preaches. If you have a 100% winning strategy with which you made 1 million dollars professionally in about 10 years. You would say that strategy comes naturally after those 10 years of professional play. Why would he even consider playing differently after transforming into a recreational player at the moment he decided to? That is complete Malarkey......And there's a very distinct difference between being honoust and rude/arrogant/argumentative/insulting....etc. And now we're not even talking about his strategy being similar to a bucket leaking from a 100 different holes....

Whatever helps you to improve your results at VP is great. Use it as you see fit. But there's a reason a vast majority of the vp people out there don't have much confidence in Singer's system. 1. because math shows the opposite of what he claims in more than one occasion and 2. because Singer's system is so "complex" that only Singer understands how to play it and 3. because his personality isn't doing him any favours, him being his own worst enemy and last but not least......he doesn't practice what he preaches.

Maybe all his loosing sessions were recreational sessions and all his winning sessions were professional ones.....

Yowzers I didn't read this entire thread until a little while ago. I'm a little middle of the road here. I see good and bad and right and wrong in almost what everyone says. One thing I don't care for is calling others names or insulting others or disrespecting a forum administrator. I saw all of that in here from 3 or 4 people.

Singer goes way back to the days of LV A Sports and he got under a lot of our skins with his weekly paper column. I don't know how that publisher let him hurl so many insults and badmouth so many others but he seemed to have free reign. But when the vote came to keep him or ban him I voted to keep, because I believe in free speech and really, although he was {to use a formulation of works spoken here} an abraisive jerk, there was a lot of blunt truth in what he said.

I'm not one to talk about being addicted to things because I probably am. Alan, I remember you talked several times on LV A about how videopoker is the "crack cocaine of gambling". What does that mean to you, and if Singer calls you or me or arcimedes or even himself or anyone else a gambling addict because they play videopoker out of habit, wouldn't he then be correct in his assessment? I couldn't see his motive for scolding you so severely for what you did with that free play aside from not doing what you said yada yada yada, but I think he might have seen a little of what he did as an advantage player. Maybe. Whatever, that's a subject each of us has to work out within ourselves. I at times think I have a problem and other times I don't think as such. Arcimedes who says he plays 6-7 hours per week also says he has an umlimited bank roll for what he plays, so if he wins or loses shouldn't much matter. But good or bad, it does seem like it's a habit, and not unlike myself when I go to a local bar one day each week for some beers with my buddies. Yes, I'm addicted to sitting with my pals and shooting the sh*t!

I saw somewhere where Alan said he had SEVENTY FIVE HUNDRED! in free play coming this summer? $2500 of which has been played so far? That's out of my league, but {no need to answer, just thinking out loud} how much had to be lost in order for the casino to bestow so much free play upon a player? They don't give that much to those who win, correct? Here's hoping you turn the remaining free play into $$$$!

Lastly, I don't follow expert math play or Singer play or any other kind of play when I play videopoker. I just play and hope. But I do understand the concept behind playing to the math, and I somewhat understand Singer's system because he spent so much time writing about it in his column and on LV A Sports, where he became the king of insults to those who didn't agree with him. I also understand from reading here that he's retired from playing that way, with that big bank roll and all. I don't quite understand why he stopped, I think I saw something about age and being an RVer now, but maybe he used that roll to help buy his rig? I don't see that as being hypocrytical because he was a professional player and now he's not. Remember, he was an advantage player too and then he wasn't, which altered his entire method of playing when he became a big mouth pro. {Aren't they all like that though} Now with probably a much reduced roll, he plays for fun only like me or my pals. I remember reading his column about losing that $35000 but I also believe he really did use his discipline so as not to lose any more that trip because that is what his strategy said to do. He wrote extensively about it but I can't remember much more. Anyway my 2c.

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Originally Posted by Vegas_lover

Wow that was a wonderful story. But, you seem to be hooked on Singer as much as you were to Golf in the past. The man is no saint, far from it actually. He is extremely judgemental towards anybody that doesn't share and adapt his views instantly. He lost credibility by not practicing what he preaches. If you have a 100% winning strategy with which you made 1 million dollars professionally in about 10 years. You would say that strategy comes naturally after those 10 years of professional play. Why would he even consider playing differently after transforming into a recreational player at the moment he decided to? That is complete Malarkey......And there's a very distinct difference between being honoust and rude/arrogant/argumentative/insulting....etc. And now we're not even talking about his strategy being similar to a bucket leaking from a 100 different holes....

Whatever helps you to improve your results at VP is great. Use it as you see fit. But there's a reason a vast majority of the vp people out there don't have much confidence in Singer's system. 1. because math shows the opposite of what he claims in more than one occasion and 2. because Singer's system is so "complex" that only Singer understands how to play it and 3. because his personality isn't doing him any favours, him being his own worst enemy and last but not least......he doesn't practice what he preaches.

Maybe all his loosing sessions were recreational sessions and all his winning sessions were professional ones.....

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That's what I'm doing-using what I find to play better. I've tried the AP and the math, and I don't care what any of you say-LUCK is the only way to win. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who would dish out their finds for FREE in an effort to help their fellow man is my kinda guy, asshole or not.