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I believe that a welfare state that is not prohibitionist towards gambling would be the most sustainable solution for a thriving gambling industry. And not only for casinos and bookmakers, but also for professional poker players, casino advantage players and sharp sports bettors.
I have my ideas on why that is the case, but I'd like to read some of your opinions on this matter.
Alessandro.
Why do you believe that to be true?
Because a concentration of wealth for the rich and a large amount of the population being unable to make ends meet, would make the gamblers pool shrink. For the industry it would mean for sure a loss of revenue that would not be filled by desperation gambling or by the rich gambling more. The rich are more likely to stay away from gambling, or to do it more wisely. Whales are few and far between. And for other aspects of casinos' revenue, like filling hotel rooms, providing enterteinment, etc., the customers pool must be as large as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
For the professional gamblers the benefits are also many. More fish at the poker tables. Sportbooks' odds getting shaped by less informed bettors. Less scrutiny for advantage players in crowded casinos. Possibly more relaxed rules at the gaming tables.
These are just a few ideas. Maybe you can tell me if it would be different in reality and why. Or maybe suggest other reasons to support this case.
Alessandro.
I was a hair away from banning you for spam, but I saw one of your other posts where you clearly had a familiarity with me, as well as the fact that I make fun of Christopher Mitchell on my other site.
My spam policy on both sites is that you can put a link to your own website in your signature, but you can't advertise it otherwise, unless it's directly relevant to a conversation (and not one started by you).
So you can leave the signature link, but I'm removing it from your first post in this thread.
Fair enough, Todd. I apologize for spamming. And yes, I'm very familiar with all your work. I've followed your radio show since I found it on PokerFuse, I guess around 10 years ago or more. I follow you on YouTube now.
Currently we have a capitalist system in America but also a large number of individuals who have failed at life and require / receive government money to survive, i.e. "welfare."
Are you suggesting capitalism be abolished and that we all go on the dole?
Where will the money to make the payments to the populace come from?
While I confess to being fairly unfamiliar with life in Europe these days, by report there are some welfare states there, or at least countries whose policies lean that way more than in the USA: if so, how are these welfare states doing, gambling-wise?
Seems to me that if we were all on welfare we'd all be too broke to piss away our spare change on gambling, but hey, the heart is a lonely hunter.
The model in Scandinavian countries like Denmark, is that it is very hard to be rich, but also very hard to be poor.
As far as being an alcoholic, well, that is rampant.
Whichever model of government, it's ever more corrupt in favor of the rich. Ha.
The psychopaths who run society can't control themselves. Like sexual predators, there's no cure.
Well there is a cure for sexual predators, neutering & castration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
Is there an equivalent for politicians?
By removing six 0's, and six 1's, for the Alpha, and Omega, respectively, along with six s's replaced by 5's,
--->Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
--->Quote:
OrigInally P05ted by DGenBen VIew P05t: Well there Is a cure f0r 5exual predat0r5, neuterIng and castrati0n. I5 there an equIvalent for p0liticIan5?
There Will Never Be Any Peace (Until God Is Seated at the Conference Table).
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WLAN Authentication and Privacy Infrastructure.
https://anagram-solver.net/OrigXnall...X?partial=true
Direct democracy via the internet as universally available. Ha.
Quote:
Direct democracy is a system that allows members of a group to decide what is good or bad for them. Power resides in the hands of the citizens, and they make decisions on policy initiatives without having the representation of the legislatures.
https://youtu.be/BNL1pmZVc_s
Are you suggesting capitalism be abolished and that we all go on the dole????? Did I suggest that? Does this question even make sense? Do people work only in capitalist economies? As someone else mentioned the Scandinavian model, those, for example, are welfare states that work within a capitalist framework, and, as far as I know, since its regulation, gambling is booming in those countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
You are all missing the point, though. I'm not trying to say which economic model would make a better society. I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of the gambling industry and professional gamblers. The more people with disposable income, the better. Just my opinion.
Isn't there a difference between a welfare state and a socialist one?Quote:
Originally Posted by SoccerPredictions
To my mind a welfare state is what the USA may soon become due to political, social and AI upheaval, i.e. most of us, especially the young ones, will be unable to earn enough money to support themselves and a family and must then get on the dole.
But no, a pure capitalist system beats a welfare state hands down...sin city needs whales.
Denmark is 33rd in the world for per capita consumption of alcohol. The US is 35th. Source: cia.gov.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Making little plastic bricks for kids has made a few billionaires in Denmark. And still, they are not that greedy, I remember reading an article 3 years ago when Lego gave 3 extra days of paid leave for Xmas, plus bonus, to ALL his employees because they had made too much money that year.
I see your location says Florence Italy.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoccerPredictions
How do you define a welfare state?
It may have a different meaning and connotation in Europe than it does in the US.
UBI and the likes won't have enough disposable income. I can't see this being true. Where does the productivity come
From?
A state that provides some sort of assistance to the most needy in society. I realize that most countries, if not all, have some sort of government policies in regards to that. As far as I know there are no "pure capitalist" countries, not even the US. But what I was arguing is not a specific economic model, but the level of disposable income and the share of population that have access to that disposable income. And again, looking at it from the perspective of the gambling industry, what would be best for them? I have lived both in Italy and the UK and I have noticed that gambling has been very strong during times when there have been strong welfare policies in place. In Italy, for example, the largest growth of the gambling industry has happened when the previous government introduced "reddito di cittadinanza", some sort of universal citizen's income. The present Meloni administration has done away with it 3 years ago. At first gambling seemed to remain steady, thanks to the creation of new jobs, but now we are starting to see signs of weakness. In sports betting, for example, this past september there has been 25% less money gambled compared to september 2024, and september is a big test for the local betting industry, because it's when most major soccer leagues (where most of the money is wagered) have got underway.Quote:
I see your location says Florence Italy.
How do you define a welfare state?
It may have a different meaning and connotation in Europe than it does in the US.
Again, I'm aware that the perfect scenario would be an all together strong economy with no unemployment and all the population having disposable income. And I wasn't talking about any country in particular. We may talk about the US here because it's where the large majority of you guys live. I'm very aware about how hard the gambling companies fought to get back in the US market, to make betting legal in many states and all that, but I believe that it's mainly due to the sheer size of the market there.
Casinos are "monkeys on gamblers' backs" sucking every last dollar out of them. Who gives a shit about casinos, let alone engineering a society that best caters to them? What a nutty thread. Ha.
In some way what he suggests is already happening and in some way on the way out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
Quote:
In California and Michigan, welfare recipients have been using their Electronic Benefit Transfer cards to withdraw state-funded payments from ATM machines in casinos. The degree to which the casinos benefited from this is not known, but politicians in both states have called for the machines to be programmed so as not to accept the ATM-like EBT cards.
"You may say that someone can go to the corner store, use the ATM machine there, withdraw funds, and then go to the casino," acknowledges Michigan Senator Bill Hardiman (R-Kentwood), who introduced a bill that would stop casino ATMs in his state from processing welfare payments. "But my feeling is that we shouldn't make it easy for people [to gamble] if they have gambling issues."
In California, where, according to The Los Angeles Times, 79 out of 148 tribal casinos and state-licensed poker rooms have welfare-friendly ATM machines on the premises, it's particularly easy.
"What these people are doing inside casinos in the first place is a good question," says the State Assembly's Republican Leader, Martin Garrick (R-Solana Beach). Stating that $1.8 million in state welfare revenues were withdrawn from ATMs in gambling establishments over an eight-month period, Garrick adds, "It's disgraceful and needs to cease immediately."
While it's unclear whether the casinos were merely laissez faire about the welfare-dispensing ATMs or actually complicit in the machines being there, this is a softball issue that any politician will find easy to take a stand on. California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger released an executive order forbidding welfare recipients from using their EBT cards at casino ATMs.
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AI Overview
The statement that "welfare is good for casinos" is not supported by a consensus view, but the relationship is complex and can be seen as a double-edged sword from different perspectives. While casinos can benefit from potential customers who are on welfare, this also creates ethical concerns and potential negative impacts, especially for vulnerable individuals and communities.
I was talking about disposable income. I was born in a non English-speaking country but I know the meaning of "disposable".
Let me rephrase it then.
Do you think a trickle-up effect, in economic policies, would be more beneficial than a trickle-down effect to the gambling industry? And what about professional gamblers?
I'll rephrase my argument: It's insidious enough that casinos engineer every second of your time inside, but, to suggest that they do it with the rest of the world, too, would be downright evil.
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*AHEM*Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
Arnold Schwarzenegger served as the 38th Governor of California from November 17, 2003, to January 3, 2011; Gavin governs the land of fruits and nuts today.
Please make a note of it: but being as you are from Canada your ignorance is understandable: hell, I know little of Canadian politics so your seeming ignorance is not a demerit.
I think this disconnect is how the term “welfare state” is used in the US vs. Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoccerPredictions
Here in the US it has a negative connotation & generally means something along the lines of working tax payers funding free money for people who do not work, basically free loaders living off the backs of working productive people.
But I understand it is more nuanced in Europe & does not have the same negative connotations it has here in the US.
I think in Europe you guys take it to mean more like social safety nets for working people, subsidized healthcare, etc.
This is why you will get pushback from American posters here because the first thought that crosses our mind is why should working tax payers fund non productive people especially if they are going to use the money on frivolous things like gambling rather than necessities like food, housing, medical care etc.
But since I’m not familiar & probably most of the people on this forum are not familiar either with the way government subsidies, etc work in European countries we probably can’t speak intelligently about the point you are trying to make.
Other than to say politically that idea would never fly here in the US.
You doubt the accuracy of the Great Garnabby? Ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV*AHEM*Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
Arnold Schwarzenegger served as the 38th Governor of California from November 17, 2003, to January 3, 2011; Gavin governs the land of fruits and nuts today.
Please make a note of it: but being as you are from Canada your ignorance is understandable: hell, I know little of Canadian politics so your seeming ignorance is not a demerit.
Quote:
AI Overview
There is no picture of the real Popeye, as the character was based on a real person named Frank "Rocky" Fiegel, but no verified photos of him exist. While some images of a sailor named Frank Fiegel circulate online, they have been proven to be of a different individual.
The inspiration: The cartoon character Popeye was based on a real person named Frank "Rocky" Fiegel, a Polish sailor who lived in Chester, Illinois, the hometown of Popeye's creator, Elzie Segar.
The confusion: A famous 1940 photograph of an unidentified sailor on the HMS Rodney is often mistakenly identified as Fiegel.
The reality: Fiegel was in his 70s in 1940 and the man in the photo was much younger and unrelated to him, according to sources like Reddit users.
The official stance: There is no confirmed photographic evidence of the real Frank "Rocky" Fiegel.
There is a documented photo of him sourced right from his hometown newspaper. It’s just not the original photo that was presented
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fr...fiegel-popeye/
Certainly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
I've no doubt that you can accurately write your name in cursive while pissing in the snow outside your igloo.
I've no qualms about your accuracey...it's your state of mind that seems to be, how shall I say this..."fragile?"
note: i questioned your claim about the Arnold, aka the governator and EBT cards, not about Popeye.
What, are eating that hallucinogenic poutine again?
1, 61116 ---> 616 beg to differ. Ha.
---> Don't Eat the Pictures: Sesame Street at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
https://anagram-solver.net/There%201...d?partial=true
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but, it takes ten thousand to verify it. Ha. Perhaps that ancient grainy photograph was of his brother Ben, John, or even the neighbor boy.
Not to put you all out of joint(s), MrV, but didn't you pass? Ha.
You seem a bit stressed over there, today.
---> National Eligibility cum Entrance Test (Undergraduate) controversyQuote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
https://anagram-solver.net/Ive%20no%....?partial=true
Anyway, there was nothing wrong with my quote about Arnold S. He's still Governor S.
https://english.stackexchange.com/qu...-offices-titleQuote:
In the United States, the formal rules are that only senators, governors, presidents, and officers in the armed forces retain their courtesy titles after leaving office.
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Communism is nuanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
True. Different types of communism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don PerignomCommunism is nuanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
I’ve heard that romantics prefer Trotskyism.
Hotsky to Trotsky are ya?
The most amazing thing. Had I put it in my post before, it would have been ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
1298 = {-1 + [(6*6*6 + 1 + 1)^2 - (-1 + 6*6*6)^2]} ---> 1, 616
to match the bit about ...
I, the 6reat 6arna66y. Ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
Well if you had to match which form of communism Portland would be the closest to it would be closer to anarcho communism, or Marxism then it would Trotskyism.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Or to put it in your terms, you wouldn’t be that hotsky to trotsky, or stalin for long, but you would get high Marx.
--->Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Toy Story Treats.
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Hero rats.
https://anagram-solver.net/Hotsky%20...a?partial=true
Do you really know this much about commie variants or is it just for the joke? Serious question I'm just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBenWell if you had to match which form of communism Portland would be the closest to it would be closer to anarcho communism, or Marxism then it would Trotskyism.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Or to put it in your terms, you wouldn’t be that hotsky to trotsky, or stalin for long, but you would get high Marx.
Anarcho communism has to be the biggest fail sounding government ever conceived.
Primary a joke, but totalitarian governments are always something I’ve always been interested in from a historical perspective so I’ve done a little bit of reading on communism & fascism.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionDo you really know this much about commie variants or is it just for the joke? Serious question I'm just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBenWell if you had to match which form of communism Portland would be the closest to it would be closer to anarcho communism, or Marxism then it would Trotskyism.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Or to put it in your terms, you wouldn’t be that hotsky to trotsky, or stalin for long, but you would get high Marx.
Anarcho communism has to be the biggest fail sounding government ever conceived.
Communism because it’s such a bad idea & yet it was so popular in the early 20th century & there were so many different flavors of it.
So I’ve always wanted to understand a little bit why it was so popular.
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Originally Posted by accountinquestion
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Has there ever been an anarcho-capitalist country?
Anarcho-capitalists and right-libertarians cite several historical precedents of what they believe to be examples of quasi-anarcho-capitalism, including the Republic of Cospaia, Acadia, Anglo-Saxon England, Medieval Iceland, the American Old West, Gaelic Ireland, and merchant law, admiralty law, and early common law.
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Anarchist communism is a far-left political ideology and anarchist school of thought that advocates communism. It calls for the abolition of private real property but retention of personal property and collectively-owned items, goods, and services.
The family is the fundamental unit of society, it is the building block upon which communities and societies are formed.
When you look at the internal economic model of a typical family, it operates much more like communism than capitalism.
I don't see communism as a fundamentally bad idea. But on a very large scale it has always been implemented through totalitarianism.
Now please do anarcho-fascism. That one is pretty interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
Duplicate
Communism is the only ideology where every failure is excused as ‘not real communism ’—and every success is called ‘not real capitalism.’Quote:
Originally Posted by SoccerPredictions
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Originally Posted by DGenBenNow please do anarcho-fascism. That one is pretty interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by Garnabby
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Originally Posted by DGenBen
Christmas on the International Space Station.
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Miss Teen International (Costa Rica).
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https://youtu.be/TguAMuAgK3AQuote:
What are the requirements for Miss Teen International?
Contestant must be single, never married, nor given birth to a child. Contestant must be a born female. She must be of good health and moral character. Contestant must not have been convicted of a felony crime.
Communism failed because although it could, in theory, help to equalize the distribution of income / assets it runs afoul of mankind's key motivation: GREED.
Greed is good.
Greed led to the development of for-profit business ventures long ago, to explortion, to the development of industries.
All done by people wanting to make a profit.
So long as we're rulled by Mammon an economic model based on greed, i.e. capitalism, seems the most viable for we in the developed countries.
As much as I hate to admit it, the mere fact if we were to suddenly demand time and energy at least to receive money, think about who would be affected by this. A large part of our society is dependent on a lot of people having time and money they dont deserve. They would be working for the money, without time to spend it like before and without time to waste tbeir life online costing Google, meta, etc. It's a serious house of cards quite volatile to collapse if anything drastically changes. The future seems to be a much lower standard of living unless someone gets screwed.
The revolution never ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
How it starts: We just want a "safety net" for the working poor.
How it goes: gulags for political dissidents.
This is usually done as a consolation or settlement for some other action of government like allowing monopolies and stifling innovation. The government needs to stop this too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don PerignomThe revolution never ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
How it starts: We just want a "safety net" for the working poor.
How it goes: gulags for political dissidents.
Late stage capitalism where there is no more innovation just people trying to figure out ways to extract $$ is far different than what we've seen the past 100 years.
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What's the difference between capitalism and communism?
Under capitalism, Man exploits Man. Under communism, it is exactly the opposite.
Quote:
In Communism the government owns and runs and collects everything.
In Capitalism you own and run things and the government collects it for you.
If I understand your sentiment I probably agree with it, but ironically the theory of late state capitalism came out in the 1920sQuote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
I don't read beyond long form articles and devise all my opinions off of how things work from misc things on internet and my perceptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBenIf I understand your sentiment I probably agree with it, but ironically the theory of late state capitalism came out in the 1920sQuote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Capitalisms biggest flaw is how there is absolutely 0 mechanism for longterm or sustainability of anything at all. All these things are brought in by external forces. So it brings the world up out of nowhere second to nothing. But that's like literally all it does that well. Much could be fixed but people won't vote in their interests.