Let's play "make believe." What would you do?

Let's play make-believe. You walk up to a slot machine and insert one-dollar. You push the button and you hit a jackpot of $100,000.

After you clap your hands (jackpot winners always make a loud, singular clap) and after you get out of your chair (jackpot winners always stand up after hitting a big winner), and after you whip out your cell phone and take a photo to send to your ex-spouse to rub in your good fortune (of course you want to do it), you will come face to face with the slot attendant.

After saying "congratulations" which they are always trained to do, and after they call for a "verifier" which they must do for a hand-pay, the slot attendant will ask you for your driver's license or government ID and your social security number, which they must do, and then comes the big question...

"How would you like it?"

And this is probably the most crucial question and answer every jackpot winner will have. "How would you like it?"

Well, if you are going through a divorce, you'd probably like to say "hidden from my soon-to-be ex."

Or if you are married and don't want your spouse to know that you were in a casino or won so much money, you'd probably like to say "hidden from my spouse."

What the casino management would love for you to say is: "I'd like it all in cash so I can plow it back into your machines and give it all back before I leave your casino at noon tomorrow because I can't get a late check-out."

But if you say "I'd like a check" a manager will likely tell you that if get a check your credit line will immediately be closed for this trip, and then you'd have to go through the trouble of getting the check cashed-- so why not deposit it in a casino account?

Well, depositing it in a casino account is almost like taking the cash.

How about this for an idea: "I'd like 60% taken out for Federal taxes, 30% in a check, and 10% in cash."

There's nothing wrong with having Uncle Sam and the IRS hold the money for you. Oh -- CPAs and financial planners say you should never have the IRS hold your money because they don't pay interest on over-withholding. But when it comes to casino winnings, letting the IRS hold it is a damn good idea so you don't blow it.

Taking a check is also a good idea. And taking 10% as cash let's you enjoy the casino some more with a limited amount of that jackpot at risk.

Oh, and tipping the casino personnel? Yes, I'd tip. But one-half of one percent is more than enough and that comes out of the 10% cash.

Okay, that's what I would do. And what would you do?

1. Have my picture taken holding a giant cardboard check.
2. 10% cash, the rest in a check to take home. As far as a casino credit line, they can't close what I don't have.
I'll deal with taxes, etc. when I actually talk with my financial guy when I get home.
3. Take the wife to the food court @ Flamingo and treat her to whatever she desires.

I would do as my mentor trained me to do, take it all in cash, leave no tip, and leave for home stopping at the bank to deposit it. Even if it meant paying a hundred dollars to change a flight or cancel something out elsewhere. The next day I'd buy myself a new truck and pay bills, then plan a vacation. Even thinking about giving anything to the IRS to hold or pumping any of it into another machine makes me almost puke.

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Originally Posted by jatki

Even thinking about giving anything to the IRS to hold

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jatki, did your mentor tell you not to pay your taxes? Or do you just anticipate losing it all back on future trips?

You did say $100,000 and not one million, right? All you have to do is claim losses that equal the w2g tax forms and put it on your gambling record whether or not you lost, and you're OK. I do that every year just like everyone else does. Singer didn't say anything about taxes other than he filed as a pro on a different schedule than I do, and he had a lot of deductions that helped out on his returns.

The tipping thing, I used to tip all handpays regularly and happily until Singer climbed all over me for why I do it. I felt the employees needed tips to make a good wage, then he told me it was none of my concern what they make and that they never came by to give me a tip when I was losing. He said no one tips at Walgreens or the bank so why give the cashiers anything. That makes sense. Then when I really thought about it that night when I got home, I realized how much money I was wasting on these tips that really are not earned by anyone but me, the gambler, and that the true reason I always tipped was out of what Singer called the intimidation factor, because you don't want that uncomfortable feeling as the floor people walk away with dirty looks on their faces after being stiffed. Now when I get any handpays I just smile and say thank you, and the money I won gambling remains mine because I'm not intimidated any longer. Singer, thank you a lot!

I would ask for it all in cash. Cash is king. If they had to give me a check for part of it that would be ok.

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Originally Posted by jatki

All you have to do is claim losses that equal the w2g tax forms and put it on your gambling record whether or not you lost, and you're OK. I do that every year just like everyone else does.

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What you are suggesting is tax fraud.

The government can handle the loss, especially if they can piss away trillions the way this crew is doing. What I was suggesting is that everyone who gets w2gs or at least almost everyone who does, claims losses as much as their winnings, on their schedule A. It's probably not a lot of people and almost definitely isn't the same pool of people every year because videopoker players don't regularly win. But those who do? Why wouldn't they make up a log that shows losses at least as much as their winnings. No one will know, it's peanuts for most people, and it's a small loophole for individuals compared to the giant loopholes used by corporations around the country.

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Originally Posted by jatki

The government can handle the loss, especially if they can piss away trillions the way this crew is doing. What I was suggesting is that everyone who gets w2gs or at least almost everyone who does, claims losses as much as their winnings, on their schedule A. It's probably not a lot of people and almost definitely isn't the same pool of people every year because videopoker players don't regularly win. But those who do? Why wouldn't they make up a log that shows losses at least as much as their winnings. No one will know, it's peanuts for most people, and it's a small loophole for individuals compared to the giant loopholes used by corporations around the country.

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Good luck with that tax audit.

Concerning not tipping: comparing the casino employees, who work in a service industry and depend on tips, to employees @ Walgreens or the bank, who get paid more because getting tips are not a part of their job situation, is a cop out. It's not even a case of intimidation by an employee. A casino employee can be intimidating??? Really???? I mean, c'mon, intimidated by a casino employee???

It's a case of you (and your mentor) being cheap and miserly. Pure and simple.

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Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

It's a case of you (and your mentor) being cheap and miserly. Pure and simple.

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I would like to add "deperate." I think anyone who goes to a casino, and can throw big money into a slot, but doesn't tip must be desperate to control every last dollar they have.

Only once in my life did I see someone not tip at a casino, and it was at the valet at NYNY some years ago. A young couple got into their car with their bags and the guy looked at the valet and said, "I'm sorry. I can't tip you. I lost all my cash." The valet said "it's okay," smiled and hustled off to get the next car.

I've been going to casinos for several decades and never saw anyone intentionally withhold a tip.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I would like to add "deperate." I think anyone who goes to a casino, and can throw big money into a slot, but doesn't tip must be desperate to control every last dollar they have.

Only once in my life did I see someone not tip at a casino, and it was at the valet at NYNY some years ago. A young couple got into their car with their bags and the guy looked at the valet and said, "I'm sorry. I can't tip you. I lost all my cash." The valet said "it's okay," smiled and hustled off to get the next car.

I've been going to casinos for several decades and never saw anyone intentionally withhold a tip.

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I'd be willing to bet that guy at the NYNY valet was lying. People who valet park are never the type to ever be down to their last dollar. (Personally, I set aside designated money for tips so that I never "gamble it away".)

Vegasvic, I did have one audit since I've been receiving w2gs from casino wins, and they asked for was my gambling log if I had one. After a quick research, I quickly wrote one up because I never kept one before that. This was the one year up to then where I actually had a winning year to the tune of about $850, so I manipulated my log to show an equal amount of loss. There was no problem on that part of the audit. As I said, I was trained not to be concerned with what other people make and it's not my job to help them earn more. This is a free country full of opportunity, so if those casino employees don't like the wage then they're free to do what the rest of us have done multiple times, change jobs or quit to go on the Obama payroll system. On intimidation, any face to face situation where you're perceived as an offender will trigger intimidation, and it takes a strongwilled person to handle it. It just so happens that the industry that expects tips is compiled of mostly lower class individuals.

Alan I don't understand that comment on desperation. People who toss money into slots, if they're like me, do have money for other things that can be wasteful. For instance I like to go to titty bars. What a waste of money right? Well the money I've saved on tipping the casino vultures since Singer chided me for it has given me all the lap dances I can handle.

Let me ask a question on the topic. For those who tip hand pays and cashiers in casinos, why do you do it? What do you get out of it, or what do you want to think you get out of it? Would anything change if you stopped the tips from flowing, meaning would you be concerned about slower service or grumpy looks coming your way? These are some of the things I remember singer asked me, and I said I'd be concerned about slower service but more about dirty looks from employees. But just like he said, the service doesn't change because that is their job and I'm still their customer like me or not. Believe this, there are a lot of dirty, disgusted looks and underbreath nasty comments said to each other as these people walk away empty handed. Once you learn to remember that it is you who helps them keep their jobs by coming in to play, then those looks do not exist any longer.

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Originally Posted by jatki

I actually had a winning year to the tune of about $850, so I manipulated my log to show an equal amount of loss. There was no problem on that part of the audit.

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Hey Jatki, what did you say your social security number was? Or... just your real name will do.

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Originally Posted by jatki

For those who tip hand pays and cashiers in casinos, why do you do it?

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Valid question, simple answer: it's the right thing to do. There are certain businesses where tipping is appropriate.
You tip waitresses and waiters, but you don't tip lawyers and doctors.
You tip poker dealers, and slot attendants but you don't tip policemen or IRS auditors.
You tip car valets, but you don't tip auto parts store clerks.
You tip casino cashiers but you don't tip bank tellers.

I don't tip paramedics but back before my transplants and the local paramedics were making regular house calls to me, I used to pick up dinner for the fire department guys on certain holidays. When I see a fire crew in my local pizza joint, I pick up their check. One night at Rincon, the Marines were having their "ball" or something and I used my comps to pick up the tab for six of them and their dates when they stopped in the 24-hour restaurant for a late breakfast.

Is that good enough for you?

Hey Alan, thanks for showing the Marines some good will; as my son-in-law is in the Marines. FYI the Marine Corp Ball will be Oct. 4, 2012 at Pala Casino this year

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Hey Jatki, what did you say your social security number was? Or... just your real name will do.

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I know it's cheating but compared to the corrupt thugs in the government, how bad a guy am I really?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Valid question, simple answer: it's the right thing to do. There are certain businesses where tipping is appropriate.
You tip waitresses and waiters, but you don't tip lawyers and doctors.
You tip poker dealers, and slot attendants but you don't tip policemen or IRS auditors.
You tip car valets, but you don't tip auto parts store clerks.
You tip casino cashiers but you don't tip bank tellers.

I don't tip paramedics but back before my transplants and the local paramedics were making regular house calls to me, I used to pick up dinner for the fire department guys on certain holidays. When I see a fire crew in my local pizza joint, I pick up their check. One night at Rincon, the Marines were having their "ball" or something and I used my comps to pick up the tab for six of them and their dates when they stopped in the 24-hour restaurant for a late breakfast.

Is that good enough for you?

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It's the right thing to do if you're the easily intimidated type. I tip everywhere else you do but in the casinos for the hand pays and cashiers, and I used to do that regularly until I woke up. I'd submit you really tip these casino people because it removes some kind of guilt from your soul, when at the same time they're either calling you a cheap bastard after winning a few thousand or more and leaving them such a stingy tip, and or cheering you on to lose all your money so they have a better chance for continued employment.

Try this. Guess how much money you've handed out in these type tips each year since you began going to casinos (and I don't tip dealers at any game either, anymore that is) then add it all up and what do you have. A small fortune? Now ask your wife what she could have done with that money that you gave to strangers because that type of thing is somehow programmed into you as the right thing to do. Come back when you're out of the doghouse.

Makes no sense to say it's right to tip casino cashiers and not the bankers. My daughter started out in a bank as a teller and made minimum wage for a year. So that doesn't fly. The rest of your analogies didn't compute. It was like saying you tip the butcher but not the hotel clerk.

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Originally Posted by jatki

It's the right thing to do if you're the easily intimidated type. I tip everywhere else you do but in the casinos for the hand pays and cashiers, and I used to do that regularly until I woke up. I'd submit you really tip these casino people because it removes some kind of guilt from your soul, when at the same time they're either calling you a cheap bastard after winning a few thousand or more and leaving them such a stingy tip, and or cheering you on to lose all your money so they have a better chance for continued employment.

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What makes you think I'm intimidated into tipping? Because Singer says people who tip in casinos are intimidated? Is that your reasoning? Tell me something... how much of his kool-aid did you drink?

By the way, I don't tip the butcher or the hotel clerk.

Time to make this a different thread -- see "Who do you tip?" This will be interesting.

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Originally Posted by jatki

It's the right thing to do if you're the easily intimidated type. I tip everywhere else you do but in the casinos for the hand pays and cashiers, and I used to do that regularly until I woke up. I'd submit you really tip these casino people because it removes some kind of guilt from your soul, when at the same time they're either calling you a cheap bastard after winning a few thousand or more and leaving them such a stingy tip, and or cheering you on to lose all your money so they have a better chance for continued employment .

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I submit it's better to imagine that those employees are potentially going to do all those things if I don't tip them than to have them actually be doing those things to you because you are a cheap bastard.

Tipping does not "remove guilt from my soul" but rather adds to my soul through my gesture of sharing a little bit of my good fortune. It's a much better feeling to be generous than penurious.

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Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

penurious.

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DING DING DING WINNER WINNER WINNER WORD OF THE DAY

From Webster: Synonyms: cheap, chintzy, close, closefisted, mean, mingy, miserly, parsimonious, penny-pinching, stingy, pinching, pinchpenny, spare, sparing, stinting, tight, tightfisted, uncharitable, ungenerous

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

What makes you think I'm intimidated into tipping? Because Singer says people who tip in casinos are intimidated? Is that your reasoning? Tell me something... how much of his kool-aid did you drink?

By the way, I don't tip the butcher or the hotel clerk.

Time to make this a different thread -- see "Who do you tip?" This will be interesting.

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Just to answer your question, Singer did tell me about the intimidation factor, and you know what? That is right on the money as to why I've always tipped the floor people. My opinion on why you tip is only based on what I've seen here only. Our friend Singer I believe is pretty spot on with his analysis on the intimidation factor, at least when it comes to the floor people. I saw where he chided you for not doing what you said you were going to do with that free play fiasco. I agree with him on that because that's what he taught me I have to improve upon. So, maybe he's right on about why you tip too?

LOL. Dealers and slot people intimidate you? Is that part of SPS or ARTT ?? Ludicrous excuse for being a cheap SOB.

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Originally Posted by jatki

Just to answer your question, Singer did tell me about the intimidation factor, and you know what? That is right on the money as to why I've always tipped the floor people. My opinion on why you tip is only based on what I've seen here only. Our friend Singer I believe is pretty spot on with his analysis on the intimidation factor, at least when it comes to the floor people. I saw where he chided you for not doing what you said you were going to do with that free play fiasco. I agree with him on that because that's what he taught me I have to improve upon. So, maybe he's right on about why you tip too?

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Perfect example of someone who has been intimidated by Singer.

Vegas Vic... earlier I said that Singer and his followers resemble a cult. This is more evidence. Not only does he preach a methodology, but he also preaches a psychology and a way of life. Everything is used to reinforce the basic methodology.

Again he preaches: don't do what the casinos expect you to do. So, you don't play the conventional way, you don't use their offers, you don't tip, you treat them as the enemy, etc. It's all part of the "mind control" that Singer probably learned through whatever clandestine government work he did earlier in his life.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Vegas Vic... earlier I said that Singer and his followers resemble a cult. This is more evidence. Not only does he preach a methodology, but he also preaches a psychology and a way of life. Everything is used to reinforce the basic methodology.

Again he preaches: don't do what the casinos expect you to do. So, you don't play the conventional way, you don't use their offers, you don't tip, you treat them as the enemy, etc. It's all part of the "mind control" that Singer probably learned through whatever clandestine government work he did earlier in his life.

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Cult? Not sure and it doesn't matter at all. He does train to treat the casinos as our financial enemy, so how is that unwise or even untrue? Everything he does and says is almost the flip side of what you expect the casinos want you to be doing, and he does live it. That's why he does so well. He told me about the government work, but I don't think he controls my mind nearly as much as he makes someone like Arc do whatever he subliminally coerces him to do. That part was fun. Besides, training me not to leave tips to casheirs or floor people on handpays has saved me mucho dinero. Why would I or you even care about how it affects those people? Do you have them over for dinner each month or on bbq's? Do they report to your in-laws? Do you believe they'll attack you the next time you show up to play? See how stupid tipping those people is?

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Originally Posted by jatki

Besides, training me not to leave tips to casheirs or floor people on handpays has saved me mucho dinero. Why would I or you even care about how it affects those people? Do you have them over for dinner each month or on bbq's? Do they report to your in-laws? Do you believe they'll attack you the next time you show up to play? See how stupid tipping those people is?

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Jatki -- this is a revelation, of course. Now, you have made me see the light!! Casino people are really no different than anyone else in the service business. Gee, if I didn't tip restaurant servers I would save 15 to 20%. If I didn't tip car valets I would save a dollar or two each time. If I didn't tip baggage handlers I'd save a buck a bag. If I didn't tip my hair stylist I'd save $5 on each haircut.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Now that's mucho dinero!!! After all, I don't care what happens to those people. I don't have them over for dinner or bbq's. They don't know my in-laws. And they won't attack me the next time they see me either. Yep, all those tips I've given over my life were stupid.