How to sell a gambling system, in five easy steps.

I've decided that it's pretty easy to sell a gambling system. The gambling system doesn't have to actually "work" but you just have to give the appearance that it works. Some testimonials will help.

I am writing this not because I want anyone to use this information to help them sell a system to an unsuspecting consumer, but I am writing this to keep consumers from buying into pipe dreams about gambling.

Before I get into the five steps of selling a gambling system, a basic rule to remember: You can't beat the house in most games unless you get very lucky. There are exceptions, of course, but the exceptions are few otherwise the casino industry wouldn't be able to keep the lights on.

This is not about the "exceptions" but this is about preventing you from buying into a false dream and the writings or lessons taught by a false prophet.

The five steps for selling a gambling system:

Step #1 You appeal to those who feel cheated -- the "lost."
What better audience is there for a gambling system but people who have gambled and lost in casinos? Whatever they've tried before didn't work, so they are begging for something that will work. They are ready to buy.

Step #2 You tell them that it's not their fault that they lost.
You give them a reason that is totally out of their control for their losses. You might claim that the video poker or slot games are not random, or that they are rigged. You might say that the casino has placed the winning machines in certain positions. You might say that only insiders know which games to bet on, or which bets to make on the roulette wheel. You tell them, and reinforce the idea, that others have the knowledge they are lacking and you can provide the missing knowledge. At the same time, by telling your customers that they are not to blame for their losses you also give them hope that your solution will work.

Step #3 Your have a solution: a system, a strategy, a plan.
This plan is your plan, it is unique, it is something that no one else ever came up with before. If it weren't unique there would be no reason to buy it from you. You developed the plan and you invested heavily into it. You identify with your customers telling them that before you devised your system/plan you were a loser just like they are. Now, your system/plan changes everything.

Step #4 You have the proof.
Proof of your success in gambling can come in various ways. You can show tax forms, trophies, bracelets, photos of jackpots, newspaper articles and TV video clips, web articles. Of course, your wins don't have to come from your system. A photo of a jackpot doesn't mean that your system led to the jackpot. A photo of a check or a W2G gambling form doesn't say the system was responsible for the big win. So, evidence of any win, any jackpot, any success in a casino can be used to justify a system/plan because there is really no way to challenge it.

Step #5 Remove the possibility of challenges to your system.
You want to remove the challenges and make it difficult or impossible for anyone to challenge you or your system. How do you do that? First, you don't accept any challenges or tests. Second, you make the conditions of tests or challenges so difficult or high that few will accept. Third, you make the system so unique -- with changing conditions and changing requirements, that the system becomes impossible to test. You combine written material with lectures, and lectures with personal counseling sessions, and personal counseling sessions with a requirement of practice, and finally a disclaimer that it can't work 100% of the time because the casinos can catch on to you and they are changing their strategies to stop you. Remember, the casinos are out to get you -- you are the enemies of the casinos -- and the buyers of your plan/strategy/secrets must be kept aware that the casinos will do anything and everything to keep them from enjoying the forbidden fruit you are selling.

Those are the five steps for selling a gambling system. Good luck.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...LEYMONEY-1.gif

Auxiliary Add-Ons to the Mendelson System:

6) Find a forum or website whose owner will not compare/contrast your system with what professional mathematicians or scientists would say, and which will provide a relative safe haven for the promulgation of your system.
7) Flood said site or forum with friends/neighbors/acquaintances and Cybillized versions of yourself to present the illusion of a population that endorses and has succeeded with your system.

One of our readers sent me this link which fits in with #5 above: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...ble-bet-tactic

It's about creating an "unreasonable bet" with conditions and consequences so extreme that your opponent would back down. Sound familiar?

Hi Alan,

I’ve been lurking here for some time now, reading many of the posts. I was first “introduced” to you (MoneyLA) and arcimedes on the LVA boards. Now that it looks like both arcimedes and Rob Singer have left the boards, I thought it would be safe to join in to pose a few questions and make a few comments.

Does Rob Singer have anything to gain by trying to convince people that he has the best winning VP system around? What is he selling? Books? DVDs? Is he really just trying to earn a few players’ club points by using his casino card while giving VP lessons to people?

I decided to post my first comment under this thread because it looks like you are finally coming around to arcimedes’ way of thinking. Rob has claimed on these threads that:

1. All VP machines are not random. He bases this on 1 machine he owns.
2. He can detect “hot” and “cold” cycles that a machine is going through.
3. He can end up with a net lifetime win on negative EV machines.


I don’t know him, but his claims seem a bit far-fetched.

As far as arcimedes goes, the math backs him up, but his claims of being able to play VP at +2% earning $100,000 overall at a casino doesn’t seem plausible to me. Wouldn’t a casino have gotten rid of these machines long ago? He seems like such a smart guy, isn’t there anything more productive he could do than to chase down small edges on VP?

I never really got hooked on VP. I play mostly blackjack and live poker. I did have a VP training program, where you could select anywhere from a dozen or so different VP games with different pay-tables; some positive, and some negative. You could also input other variables such as stakes and the total number of hands the computer would auto-play for you (computer perfect play). Whenever you selected a negative EV game, and told the CPU to play 100 million hands, your final bankroll would always end up in the negative. The converse was true if you selected a positive EV game.

My question for you or Rob Singer is this. When I plug in $1 stakes on a game that pays back only 99%, after 100 million hands, my final bankroll is almost always around -$5,000,000 (1% of $500 million). If you were playing this game, when during that $5,000,000 loss would you jump in and out to end up with a net profit?

Hello and welcome a2a3dseddie and congratulations for picking the most difficult of all "handles" to accurately spell. LOL

My opinions towards Rob actually haven't changed from the very beginning, but I have learned new things about his system that I did not know before that I disagree with. Had I known these positions from the start I would have objected to them from the start as well. My positions never changed.

1. I never accepted nor do I agree that there is some widespread secret handshake deal to allow non random VP games.
2. I never accepted that hot and cold cycles could be forecast or predicted like the weather. We see them in hindsight only is my belief, and we never know when they will start or end.
3. Yes, I think you can win on negative expectation games and I see winners all the time at negative expectation games. Why the math guys say that you must lose on negative expectation games amazes me. It's as if they never heard of people getting lucky? Well, I'm going to say it again: people get lucky, and they also get lucky holding the wrong cards.

Of course Arcimedes is right when he gives us the math. The math is right. But the math says that when you flip a coin over time heads should come up equally with tails. But there is a kid somewhere in the world who, when he flips a coin 100 times, will get 100 heads. It's not going to happen very often, but it's going to happen. Long=shots win races, favored horses lose. Canonero didn't finish the Belmont Stakes, my neighbor in Valencia won the California lottery twice, I got a kidney/pancreas transplant after being on the waiting list only five months, Rob Singer won a million dollars playing negative expectation video poker games.

Now your question: When I plug in $1 stakes on a game that pays back only 99%, after 100 million hands, my final bankroll is almost always around -$5,000,000 (1% of $500 million). If you were playing this game, when during that $5,000,000 loss would you jump in and out to end up with a net profit?

Well, let me ask you some questions:

First, do I ever have a profit?
Second, do I immediately jump out of the gate and win some huge amount?

I don't think you're giving me or Rob or anyone enough information for them to answer your question. So let me ask you a question:

You go to a casino with $5,000 and after playing video poker for about ten minutes you find that you now have $5,500. Would you quit playing and go home? Or do other things in Vegas besides gamble? Or would you keep playing hope to win more knowing that you could lose the profit and even the rest of your $5,000 bankroll?

Alan,

What you’re doing is hoping which is what the business plan of every casino is built on. What’s that quote from the movie ‘Casino’…”Running a casino is like selling people dreams for cash?”

Yes, there could be someone in the world who could flip an honest coin and get 100 heads in a row, but wouldn’t you eventually go broke betting on the over 7 billion other people in the world first before finding him? Yes, long shots do come in, and pay well but they’re called long shots for a reason, and you will quickly go broke by consistently playing them. You play craps. Why not just play the Horn or Hop bets every roll? Don’t those bets have the highest pay offs? Why not become a 10 spot professional Keno player? It’s because the high house edge will eventually bust you.

Yes, people get lucky playing negative EV games. People win on slot machines (all –EV) all the time. But it cannot be done consistently for you or anyone to be an overall winner. That’s what every single casino ever built bases its’ business on.

In my actual VP software simulator if you play 100 million hands, there is no –EV game you can play that will result in a final positive bankroll. My initial question was, what makes you think that the sessions you or Rob could play within those 100 million hands would be any different than the ones a random person would play? Remember, the software plays each hand “computer perfect”. How can you or anyone predict when the machine will pay off?

As for myself, I am an overall loser playing all casino games, but an overall winner when it comes to poker. If no one believes me, I can give you my name and you can check for yourself on the World Series of Poker website and Sharkscope (online poker tournament tracker). These days when I go to a casino, I play for fun. If I win a few hundred dollars that will pay for the tank of gas in my car or a nice meal in a restaurant or for something I saw in the gift shop, I’ll stop. I don’t lose $35000 trying to book a $2500 win, and I don’t play a set number of hours or dollars through a machine trying to maintain a tier level or earn comps. So to answer your question, if I won $500 within 10 minutes playing video poker, I would quit. I would buy some show tickets, or something nice for my children. Winning puts you in a good mood, and I’d like to savour it for as long as possible.

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Originally Posted by a2a3dseddie

Hi Alan,

I’ve been lurking here for some time now, reading many of the posts. I was first “introduced” to you (MoneyLA) and arcimedes on the LVA boards. Now that it looks like both arcimedes and Rob Singer have left the boards, I thought it would be safe to join in to pose a few questions and make a few comments.

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No, neither one of us is gone. Singer just posts under jatki and I stated "I'm done" trying to get the facts through Alan's thick skull. Interestingly, as soon as I quit he appears to have figured it out.

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Originally Posted by a2a3dseddie

Does Rob Singer have anything to gain by trying to convince people that he has the best winning VP system around? What is he selling? Books? DVDs? Is he really just trying to earn a few players’ club points by using his casino card while giving VP lessons to people?

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I think his main motives are based on ego. He always wanted to be Bob Dancer.

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Originally Posted by a2a3dseddie

As far as arcimedes goes, the math backs him up, but his claims of being able to play VP at +2% earning $100,000 overall at a casino doesn’t seem plausible to me. Wouldn’t a casino have gotten rid of these machines long ago? He seems like such a smart guy, isn’t there anything more productive he could do than to chase down small edges on VP?

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I didn't win it all in one casino. I played in around 15 casinos overall during the 8 years I accumulated those profits. The one you are thinking about (the 2% edge) is the biggest single source of my profits, but that is also the casino where a special method of card pulling works. They are not aware of my profits (verified through casino win/loss statements for the last 3 years).

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Originally Posted by a2a3dseddie

These days when I go to a casino, I play for fun. If I win a few hundred dollars that will pay for the tank of gas in my car or a nice meal in a restaurant or for something I saw in the gift shop, I’ll stop. I don’t lose $35000 trying to book a $2500 win, and I don’t play a set number of hours or dollars through a machine trying to maintain a tier level or earn comps. So to answer your question, if I won $500 within 10 minutes playing video poker, I would quit. I would buy some show tickets, or something nice for my children. Winning puts you in a good mood, and I’d like to savour it for as long as possible.

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I am like you. I play for fun, and I always have.
The math guys maintain that playing on a positive expectation game and then adding in comps and perks and freebies, etc., will give them bigger profits.
Well, good for them. I don't swallow that.
Nor do I swallow anyone who says chasing losses to the tune of $35,000 is part of a valid plan to win a million dollars over a ten year period.

Yes, we should play on the best paytables possible. Yes, we should look for the best comps possible. Yes, we should savor the profits and protect our profits.

Snake oil comes in various forms. Even the math guys cannot guarantee a win so that makes even "advantage play" a brand of snake oil -- but maybe a better quality snake oil as snake oil brands are ranked.

If there is anything I want to get across to everyone who comes to this site it is this: gambling is gambling. And don't bet that you'll make a profit at it.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Snake oil comes in various forms. Even the math guys cannot guarantee a win so that makes even "advantage play" a brand of snake oil -- but maybe a better quality snake oil as snake oil brands are ranked.

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Perhaps it is a matter of perception but it appears to me that few people follow a philosophy that requires them to eek out every penny from their gambling transactions and instead use "advantage play" as a method to maximize their complimentary awards while reducing their probability of losing, the elements of which you also state as being good practices. I find it difficult to directly refute your characterization of that as being "snake oil", but it appears the discrepancy may be more related to how the doctrine is presented than how it is put into practice.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

If there is anything I want to get across to everyone who comes to this site it is this: gambling is gambling. And don't bet that you'll make a profit at it.

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That is excellent advice. When it comes to gambling "systems" it is always good to remember that while it may be possible to adorn the labia oris of a porcine, at the conclusion it will still be a swine.

Spock, I don't follow these things very close, but I read VPFREE now and then and it sure does feel that there is a lot of players who follow the snake oil from advantage play as a means to eek out every cent possible. Your second statement I would expect also applies to advantage play.

Now for the lap-slapping fun part. Arc, as predicted, just couldn't stay away and was reading every post a hundred times. Oh how it must have been eating away at him, haha. So he starts right in by lying about me again, right after doing his best obam administration twist on his own description of done. Funny is not the word.

Alan, from your post far above about an unreasonable bet, I remember reading that bet I talked about Singer put in the paper and that can be construed as being unreasonble, but for the fact that he opened it up to all the rich guys who were telling fake tales about him. So ok. But I also remember his bet offer on the wizards site and that wasn't a bad deal for either side. I want to understand what you would consider a reasonable bet for Singer to be. Would you want him to play any other way than he does his system? What about the denominations or games he plays? Why don't you come up with one for him that doesn't change anything about his system, or is it impossible? I think that would be interesting.

When Rob was challenged by the guys on LVA a few months back, I simply told him to accept their challenge -- to go ahead and play in a casino and win with his system. And I would be there to video tape the entire thing. There was no need to put a side bet of thousands of dollars as part of the whole thing. If Rob was confident he would win, he should have gone in there are won the money from the casino and showed his LVA critics that his system works.

Instead he demanded the side bet.

As a result, Rob never got the chance to finally prove his system to the people on LVA, to his harshest critics, and to the world. So Rob lost his chance.

He will forever be remembered as the guy who won't accept a challenge to prove a system that most people call unworkable or a fantasy.

Rob said he wanted to punish his critics? Instead he punished himself. That's what I told him, and I stand by it.

Rob could have walked up to a game, played his system with increasing denominations, hit his win goal and won it all -- the bet, the respect, and shut his critics up -- all at once.

Rob did the percentage thing, assuming what he presents isn't really what he believes.

The fact he didn't take Alan up on his offer suggests Rob's not self-deluded. It suggests instead that Arci's characterization is more likely to be correct.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

When Rob was challenged by the guys on LVA a few months back, I simply told him to accept their challenge -- to go ahead and play in a casino and win with his system. And I would be there to video tape the entire thing. There was no need to put a side bet of thousands of dollars as part of the whole thing. If Rob was confident he would win, he should have gone in there are won the money from the casino and showed his LVA critics that his system works.

Instead he demanded the side bet.

As a result, Rob never got the chance to finally prove his system to the people on LVA, to his harshest critics, and to the world. So Rob lost his chance.

He will forever be remembered as the guy who won't accept a challenge to prove a system that most people call unworkable or a fantasy.

Rob said he wanted to punish his critics? Instead he punished himself. That's what I told him, and I stand by it.

Rob could have walked up to a game, played his system with increasing denominations, hit his win goal and won it all -- the bet, the respect, and shut his critics up -- all at once.

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I see a possible contradiction here and in what redietz just wrote, and I remember it from the LV A discussion and from memory of the Arc criticizing. Alan you say all Singer had to do was bring a haul of cash to risk in front of his critics and when he won the session of his single play they'd have shut up. Well in fact I've seen him offer to do that with a relatively small bet with the wizardof odz and maybe a few of his friends. But once he opts in they came back and said the same thing I've seen Arc and others say for several years at least, that with his system it's very easy to win a session which is $2500 and only a fool would bet on him doing it, and only a fool would shut up as you say because one session doesn't mean squat. Then they walk. So what would it prove anyhow? Even I know that his winning wouldn't mean a hell of a lot unless he won 20 out of 25 or something like that.

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Originally Posted by jatki

Well in fact I've seen him offer to do that with a relatively small bet with the wizardof odz and maybe a few of his friends.

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Well golly gee, you sure seem to know a lot about the things Singer has done. It's almost like you were there.

Jatki, I wish you would clear this up: I know you and Rob talk, and that you are in very close proximity to each other, so when you post here, please separate your own thoughts from the thoughts you are relaying from Rob.

And tell Rob it's okay for him to post on his own. Perhaps it would be better if he did his own talking?

Alan, I'm just telling you what I know from my experiences and interest in what Singer has said and done. I was a member on the wizardof odz when Singer posted there before he got banned and I relayed what I saw go down. Did you happen to read that forum then too? Just like I am a current member of videopoker.com and LV A and am able to offer insight on what I've seen on those forums. I haven't talked to Rob in a while and I sure wish he'd get here soon so he'd be able to better say what I've been trying to relay.

Well, all I can say is I'm real glad jatki now remembers on a day-to-day basis whether he's met Rob. It's not that I'm a distrustful soul -- I just have a tough time when somebody remembers details of this interaction or that one with someone -- and a few weeks back didn't remember actually meeting the dude in question.

I'd say jatki's credibility is the same as Blutarsky's GPA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

Alan, I'm just telling you what I know from my experiences and interest in what Singer has said and done. I was a member on the wizardof odz when Singer posted there before he got banned and I relayed what I saw go down. Did you happen to read that forum then too? Just like I am a current member of videopoker.com and LV A and am able to offer insight on what I've seen on those forums. I haven't talked to Rob in a while and I sure wish he'd get here soon so he'd be able to better say what I've been trying to relay.

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Alan and I both post at Wizard of Vegas. What's your username over there?

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Originally Posted by redietz

Well, all I can say is I'm real glad jatki now remembers on a day-to-day basis whether he's met Rob. It's not that I'm a distrustful soul -- I just have a tough time when somebody remembers details of this interaction or that one with someone -- and a few weeks back didn't remember actually meeting the dude in question.

I'd say jatki's credibility is the same as Blutarsky's GPA.

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Blutarsky's GPA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jatki's & Singer's credibility combined.

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

Alan and I both post at Wizard of Vegas. What's your username over there?

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I'm really curious what he's going to tell us.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I'm really curious what he's going to tell us.

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chuckle, chuckle.

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

Alan and I both post at Wizard of Vegas. What's your username over there?

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I quit there about a year and a half ago.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Well, all I can say is I'm real glad jatki now remembers on a day-to-day basis whether he's met Rob. It's not that I'm a distrustful soul -- I just have a tough time when somebody remembers details of this interaction or that one with someone -- and a few weeks back didn't remember actually meeting the dude in question.

I'd say jatki's credibility is the same as Blutarsky's GPA.

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I think I already stated why that was, but forum people will always put it together the way they want. I can only summize that since you don't post much, you don't read much. Just the opposite of arc. He reads every post because well you know why, especially if it's about singer, and especially if he says he's done because not reading would terribly eat away at him as was just proven. The golf and bowling must not be doing it for him. Golly gee what a surprise.

Alan, I'm going to defer any more explanations of what I know about Singer's system and my tipping perspective as taught by him, to the man himself when he returns. You're getting annoyed with me because I don't see tipping hand pays, and apparently only hand pays, the same way you do, plus as expected arc caved in and tried to spin his dignity so he could start up with the lies again. Besides you should be weary of his insults towards you, as you know they'll be next to surface as soon as you don't see something his way.

I sent Rob an email last night and just got a reply. He's either sent or will send you info on the posting of his system here. After he does that then maybe we can discuss it while all on the same page. Just as well because I have some more hauling to do in the next week or two again. The last haul I made the obnoxious people didn't give me a tip. Maybe you can talk to them about doing the right thing?

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Originally Posted by jatki

I quit there about a year and a half ago.

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That's not what you were asked.

I doubt anyone is surprised you can't backup your claims with a simple name. The lies do catch up to you, don't they.

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Originally Posted by jatki

I quit there about a year and a half ago.

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I have been over there longer than that. What made you quit? What name were you using back then? I don't remember a jatki...

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Originally Posted by jatki

The golf and bowling must not be doing it for him. Golly gee what a surprise.

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Oh I don't know, I actually enjoyed throwing that 300 game yesterday.

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Originally Posted by arcimede$

That's not what you were asked.

I doubt anyone is surprised you can't backup your claims with a simple name. The lies do catch up to you, don't they.

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Then you don't read very well, do you Mr. All the Facts All the Time. To refreshen your failing memory, the question was what IS your username. I quit so I no longer have one.

You are so easy to make fun of, and I'm not even trying. Now it's very clear why Singer pointed out how you always fall into your own traps. :p

Count I just saw your post. I don't have any info on that. Best to ask him when he returns. I'm looking forward to his posting also.

Didn't Mr. Singer say a while ago he was going to show us some paperwork or other evidence related to his VP methods in October? I forgot the exact details, but I am starting to rub my hands with anticipatory excitement because October is almost here! Does anyone remember the exact details of what Mr. Singer said he is going to submit here?

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

I have been over there longer than that. What made you quit? What name were you using back then? I don't remember a jatki...

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I didn't use jatki there, that's a name my daughter created for this forum when she planned on posting along with me. I'm glad she didn't post. I only joined wizards forum because I read on Rex LV from the river rat that Singer was over there and I always like reading what he has to say. I never posted, just read. I think I used nodice.

Arc, I once hit 3 home runs in the same inning in a county softball game, two of them grand slams. Seems like only yesterday too.

Now that it's beyond obvious that Singer is commenting under jatki, let's see if he continues the charade.

Jatki I'm disappointed and angry with you because your story changes. And I'm not including what you told me in private messages.

So here's your last chance: what handle did you use on WOV so we can see what you said way back when?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Jatki I'm disappointed and angry with you because your story changes. And I'm not including what you told me in private messages.

So here's your last chance: what handle did you use on WOV so we can see what you said way back when?

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Alan, I'll say this as my last post for a while while I go off to do a job. You're disappointed and angry because you either can't read or don't pay attention. You said my story changed but where? Why say that if there's nothing to it but your own selfcreated confusion. I can understand arc and his ludicrous comments because he needs things to be his way or he can't function. But you? I'm probably the least educated of your posters and I'm focusing on what's being said better than you seem to be. Look up at my last post, I said my username was nodice on the wizards site. I also said I read and didn't post, did you see that in plain sight? So where did the story change, where?

I talked to Rob this morning about when he'll be back in S Nevada and when he's posting his system and so on. He said he emailed you that but why haven't you mentioned it instead of making an issue out of what was said or not said on another site years ago? I'm not posting anything for him but I can't say our discussions haven't influenced what I'm writing. I told him that arc couldn't stay away like he said and came back with the same lies. He laughed it off and said right now he didn't have time for reading any of it, videopoker, or even making fun of arc. I'm headed off to Texas today but i'm here right now and Singer's still in SDakota, he said he sent you a picture from there but what good are those right?

Maybe you should set up a thread for Singer's things which he told me he told you he'd have by some early date in Oct. instead of being concerned about my membership on the wizards forum. If you're a member then you should remember what went down with singer there a few years ago yourself. I told what I remembered and Rob can fill in the blanks if there are any.

Tell arc I hit another two grand slams only yesterday in a local whiffle ball game. Smiles!

Jatki, would you like me to copy and paste the message you sent me? I don't think so.

So, what was your "handle" on the WOV. You have a lot at stake here.

And now your story about WOV changes again. Now you only read but didn't post. You think your name was "nodice."

This is not looking good.

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Originally Posted by Count Room

Didn't Mr. Singer say a while ago he was going to show us some paperwork or other evidence related to his VP methods in October? I forgot the exact details, but I am starting to rub my hands with anticipatory excitement because October is almost here! Does anyone remember the exact details of what Mr. Singer said he is going to submit here?

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Did anyone catch this post I made yesterday? I'm very sure Rob promised to show us something in October, but I am hazy on the details of what it was. I am thinking it was something to do with printouts pertaining to the non-randomness of machines, but I am really not sure here.

Can someone assist me at all with the details of what he said?

Rob sent me a text on Wednesday confirming that he would be making a lengthy post about his system, however, he said it is likely to come at the end of October or perhaps in the first few days of November. I don't have a problem with that. No one is paying him to do this, and if it is posted a couple of weeks later than the original October date it doesn't make a difference.

I don't recall an actual date in October being mentioned -- so early October or late October is all the same.

Singer claimed to have notes that provide a mathematical proof that his system will work and the reasons for all of its elements. He claimed when he got back to NV he would take a trip to somewhere in AZ where he had them stored and provide a copy for Alan.

Of course, this is just another lie but as we approach the time you will see more delaying tactics and eventually some reason will come up for him to avoid providing that which has never existed. I see the delaying tactics have started.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. And other cliches.

I'm not really interested anymore in whether jatki is Singer or Singer's grandpa or Singer's dog or when/if some nonsense gets posted.

The question I have is why -- I mean really why -- would Rob go to all these convoluted lengths to promote his "system?" The reason I ask is that if someone is going through all of these twists and turns to convince people of his "success" and his "system," well -- it must have been beneficial in the past to do convince others. What did he gain?

Singer followers, if indeed they are, are more vocal than convincing. None of them go to bat for "the system," in terms of saying they accomplished this or that. Instead, Singer's 900K winnings seem to stand alone. Is this because he's the only winner or because his promotional propaganda methods don't include having students outdo him? One would think, if Singer had as many followers as he claims, some of them would have devoted more time and money to his strategies and would, because they are not "retired," ou do him. But that seems to have never happened.

The followup point is that if nobody comes forward, out of all of the hundreds of alleged Singer "students," who has outdone him, well, that would be (statistically) highly unusual -- if his system worked.

But why do all this? Pure narcissism, as Arci claims? Or did he manage to extract some value from a few people in some way, shape or form?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

The followup point is that if nobody comes forward, out of all of the hundreds of alleged Singer "students," who has outdone him, well, that would be (statistically) highly unusual -- if his system worked.

---

Maybe his most successful students quietly agreed amongst themselves to flout the math by not publicly sharing their achievements just as they had flouted the math by using Rob's approach to begin with?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Count Room

Maybe his most successful students quietly agreed amongst themselves to flout the math by not publicly sharing their achievements just as they had flouted the math by using Rob's approach to begin with?

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http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ic14/rumor.gif None of these "hundreds of students" even know the internet exists.

For the record there is no one named 'NoDice' at Wizard of Vegas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

For the record there is no one named 'NoDice' at Wizard of Vegas.

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I agree. I tried to send a private message to "NoDice" (capital letters do not matter) and there is no user registered by that name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I agree. I tried to send a private message to "NoDice" (capital letters do not matter) and there is no user registered by that name.

---

Try nod ice :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Try Pinocchio

Or .... pantsonfire

I return and see things never change. One by one,
1. Unbelievably, who I was on wizards forum remains more important than everything else.
2. Arc continues to walk on eggshells here, but he's used to doing that at home.
3. I originally said that I Think my name was nodice on the wizards site and that I believe I did no posting there. I also said I quit there about a year and 1/2 ago. These are all things I don't write down and aren't very important to me, as they are with the old forums I used to create myself a name years ago on. Alan, instead of understanding it all, you keep saying info changed. I've asked you where, and all you say is the same thing again with no answer. Why I don't know. How about being clear this time please, then please explain why this is so important to you so long afterwards. You do know, I expect, that you don't need to become a member there in order to read it, and I did say I used to read it when Singer posted there right? On a related note, I'm still wondering why none of you ever asked what my user name currently is on LV A and videopoker.com, and I have posted on both of them recently. How did this all-important information dump about a secondcareer motorhome hauler ever escape such an elite set of Sherlocks?
4. Redetz I can't follow how you write very easily but understand this, I am a student of Singer's and I have done well and better than ever in total from following what he's taught me. I think you said something that questions why no one comes out and says they beat his numbers. How many videopoker players do you know that play at those high denominations?

Alan Rob told me he was posting his strategy earlier in October unless sleeplessness and road noise is still fogging my thinking. I see where arc is cheering that he doesn't post it or finish other things but I'll be happy to watch as rob picks off arc's disdain piece by piece, just like he did with the chip away. One thing I didn't ask, is he only posting his singleplay system or the others that I and most students learn to play, the rtt and artt?

Now how about everyone be a little more nice when responding to this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

2. Arc continues to walk on eggshells here, but he's used to doing that at home.

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Who is the only person in the world that brings up my wife's problems? Absolute proof that this comment was written by Singer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

Alan, instead of understanding it all, you keep saying info changed. I've asked you where, and all you say is the same thing again with no answer.

---

Jatki, do you really want me to spell it out here for everyone to see? Do you want me to reveal what you sent me in your private message? I am honoring your "private message" but you are making it very difficult for me.

Alan I appreciate what you're saying about that, but it has nothing to do with anything I've written for at least a month. My quoted comment in your post above is only referring to how I have always said the same thing about my involvement on wizards site but you keep saying it's changed, and I'm only asking where it's changed since I don't understand. I'm not trying to make anything difficult and I just want to know what I've said about the wizards site that doesn't jive.

Arc, ease up and stop doing anything you can to convince yourself about me. I didn't say anything about your wife, my comment just meant you're being extra careful here not to cause problems for alan and you have to know how to do that well because of your experience at home. Take a good deep breath and it'll all fall into place.

jatki, all of your inconsistencies add up to a giant inconsistency.

Then forget it. The only inconsistency I know of is when I said I didn't meet Rob, and I said that purposely and I expanded on that in a PM because look how it creates an arc liefest when he finds there's someone who likes Singer. It's not important though so let's just move on.

I do hope all the PM's will be revealed when this whole thing finally blows up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

Arc, ease up and stop doing anything you can to convince yourself about me. I didn't say anything about your wife, my comment just meant you're being extra careful here not to cause problems for alan and you have to know how to do that well because of your experience at home. Take a good deep breath and it'll all fall into place.

---

We all know what you meant, Robbie. Now that you got caught again you're trying to find an escape. Too late.

I wonder if anyone else finds it humorous that Robbie had no trouble commenting on the forum for several months even while on the road and then all of a sudden the only one who can make a comment is his twin who just happens to have exactly the same opinions as Robbie on every subject.

Of course, he was getting clobbered once it was obvious he and jatki were one in the same so I suspect he thought he'd let things cool a bit. I also think he'd prefer to never comment here again since that would mean Alan would start asking him where the strategy documentation was. Since nothing of the kind exists his return would be quite inconvenient. However, not commenting would be an admission that he is a phony.

Such a conundrum.

It was all kind of silly, and to what end?

I mean, it has to be easier to go on some psych forum and pretend to be a renowned expert in family therapy or something than to try to be an expert on something as mathematically cut and dried as video poker.

So why? The whole presentation is looking increasingly juvenile.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcimede$

I also think he'd prefer to never comment here again since that would mean Alan would start asking him where the strategy documentation was.

---

For the record: Rob sent me a text message to my cell phone last week saying that he still intends to make his big post, though he says it is likely to come at the end of the month. I think I said this earlier: it doesn't make a difference to me if he posts it at the start of October, the middle of October or the end of October. And if he needs another week or ten days, that's okay too.

I am anxious to see it, just like everyone else wants to see it -- supporters as well as critics.

Now regarding the jatki mess: it is a mess. Frankly, I made a mistake and I became trapped by my own ethics. I really want the "jatki mess" to go away. I don't want to say any more than that. Frankly, the only one I want to hear from now is Rob Singer himself. And then after Rob gives us the promised information it's open season for everyone. But right now, it's only a rehash of the same old stuff.

So let's put the same old stuff on hold for a few more weeks and see what Rob comes up with.

And to jatki, I welcome your posts about other subjects, but please, I am asking you not to post anything about Rob Singer until after Rob himself makes his "big post" that we are all looking forward to seeing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Now regarding the jatki mess: it is a mess. Frankly, I made a mistake and I became trapped by my own ethics. I really want the "jatki mess" to go away. I don't want to say any more than that. Frankly, the only one I want to hear from now is Rob Singer himself. And then after Rob gives us the promised information it's open season for everyone. But right now, it's only a rehash of the same old stuff.

So let's put the same old stuff on hold for a few more weeks and see what Rob comes up with.

---

Let's not! Let's just throw it all out in the open. Jatki has nothing to lose right? He's been honoust about his intentions and relationship to Singer from the beginning. No need to protect him from anything. He hasn't done anything wrong, at least that what he believes. Alan's this whole thing is a giant mess and Jatki is to blame for a large part for that. He has been posting from the same IP address as Singer right? That at least should be clarified by Jatki himself. Why are you the one defending him while he keeps the truth to himself?

Vegas_lover I just want this forum to be more constructive than a jatki/Singer bashing forum. That's all I'm asking.

I will sum it up this way: someone wasn't telling the truth and got caught.

But the real issue isn't what jatki did or didn't do. The real issue is what will Rob Singer post about his system, his proof, his stats, and everything else. That's what matters, isn't it? There will always be "followers" who say and do the wrong thing.

I would rather stick to the real issue which is the analysis of Rob's system. I don't want the "jatki mess" to steal the show.

Frankly, one of the techniques in public relations is to create a side issue to deflect interest and criticism of something you are trying to protect. It is possible this entire "jatki mess" was created as a diversion. And if it was created as a diversion, let's not fall into the trap. OK??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Vegas_lover I just want this forum to be more constructive than a jatki/Singer bashing forum. That's all I'm asking.

I will sum it up this way: someone wasn't telling the truth and got caught.

But the real issue isn't what jatki did or didn't do. The real issue is what will Rob Singer post about his system, his proof, his stats, and everything else. That's what matters, isn't it? There will always be "followers" who say and do the wrong thing.

I would rather stick to the real issue which is the analysis of Rob's system. I don't want the "jatki mess" to steal the show.

Frankly, one of the techniques in public relations is to create a side issue to deflect interest and criticism of something you are trying to protect. It is possible this entire "jatki mess" was created as a diversion. And if it was created as a diversion, let's not fall into the trap. OK??

---

Alan, It would only be bashing Singer/Jatki if there was no reason to attack them for their actions (in other words if they did nothing questionable). I'm still not convinced Jatki and Singer aren't the same. I'm not saying they are but if they posted from the same IP address they are either the same or very very close to eachother. Your last paragraph shows that even you are a lot more skeptical towards the actions and motives of these two gentlemen than before and I think you have a good reason to be.

One of the issues here is something I posted several times many moons ago -- namely that as long as Mr. Argentino uses aliases, he's not obligated to tell the truth about anything, as is the case for anonymous posters on any forum. And as is the case for Granhoff writing under "Dancer" and "Jean Scott" and so on.

Because these are pseudonyms, what we read may be entirely 100% fiction, and they are under no obligation for it to have any factual basis. We can't sue them and so on because there is no "them." So in a legal sense, Argentino hasn't done anything wrong because whatever he posts hasn't been the "life story" of Argentino. It's been the biography of some fictional character named "Singer."

This is why, folks, people in academic journals actually sign their names to things.

Now what happens when one of these fictional characters has some internal inconsistencies in their stories that make the stories impossible to believe? They close the shop for that character and invent another one and on we go. Now those folks who have channels whereby to promote their characters (LV Advisor or Gaming Today) have motivation to keep their characters alive and consistent. So sometimes these fictional characters band together to create a universe that they sell to the public.

Kurt Flowers/Martin Strong/Anthony Curtis gets all bent out of shape, according to some, when he's publicly outed with a name other than the one he's presenting at the time. Expecting real-person biographical details from fictional characters makes as much sense as looking in the yellow pages to hire The Hulk as a bodyguard.

It doesn't matter what was said under the name "jatki." What matters is what will be said under the name "Singer."

Under examination here is the "Singer System."

All I am saying is let's see what the "Singer System" is. Nothing else matters, does it? Everything else is "noise." I can't say what the Singer system is, Arc can't say what the Singer system is, jatki can't say what the Singer system is -- only Singer himself can say what the Singer system is.

This debate right now with jatki doesn't mean anything. We all want to see what Singer says about his system, his proof, his records, etc. That's all we should be concerned about. Don't let this jatki distraction get the better of you/us.

Let me say that Mr. Singer has been nothing but kind to me. He mailed me a signed copy of his book and declined my offer to pay him for it, so personally I have a soft spot for the man. However, it seems to me that a lot of what Singer does is not based on a real strict system. If there was we would have seen it long ago. He loses money on the dollar machines, and once he loses enough he takes a shot at the $5 machines. If he loses enough there he moves on to $10 or $25. I believe this is as much detail as exists to the Singer System. He won't give you more than that, because if he actually puts specific directions down for how to play it is subject to testing/simulation and we will be cable to say that it failed. after 25,000,000 hands or whatever.

As far as the Jatki thing goes, a lot of this would be cleared up if Mr. Jatki authorized Alan to publish the private message.

I believe the jatki situation is pretty obvious. Singer contacted someone he trained in the past and asked them if he could use an alias created by this person. This individual really does exist and essentially becomes a "tool" for Singer. So, the name and password is created, probably by the "tool", and Singer uses it to make comments. However, he knows that if a problem turns up he can always get the "tool" to back him up.

So, when I eventually outed that Singer was making some/most of the comments under the jatki name, he could simply tell Alan to talk to the "tool". However, when Alan discovered the IP addresses used by Singer and the jatki "tool" were the same this part of the plan fell apart.

Now, it really doesn't accomplish much to push this further. Alan is absolutely right. Singer lied and got caught. Done.

That gets us to the question of the strategy documentation Singer has promised. Let me say this one more time. Anyone waiting for such documentation is pretty gullible. It CANNOT exist. We have a mathematical proof that I've referenced many times that clearly shows that no such documentation can exist. It truly is like waiting for evidence that 2+2=5. Duh!

The bottom line is pretty simple. Singer lies. Nothing he says can be trusted. He never lived in a 4500 sq' home as he claimed, he has no evidence to support his strategy, he uses alias names to support himself, etc, etc. He probably never won squat playing VP as evidenced by his bankruptcy and the latest lien for failing to pay for his apartment rent.

All these lies and many more are simply a house of cards to make the world believe he is a successful gambler. That house of cards is now destroyed. He should be laughed out of town whenever he tries to resurrect the myth.

If he hadn't been arrogant and abusive, I'd feel sorry for him. I actually do feel kind of sorry for him, anyway. He probably followed "Dancer's" modus operandi, got clobbered, and then what? What do you do when you've lost 400K (if 400K it was) following somebody else's strategies?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

It doesn't matter what was said under the name "jatki." What matters is what will be said under the name "Singer."

Under examination here is the "Singer System."

All I am saying is let's see what the "Singer System" is. Nothing else matters, does it? Everything else is "noise." I can't say what the Singer system is, Arc can't say what the Singer system is, jatki can't say what the Singer system is -- only Singer himself can say what the Singer system is.

This debate right now with jatki doesn't mean anything. We all want to see what Singer says about his system, his proof, his records, etc. That's all we should be concerned about. Don't let this jatki distraction get the better of you/us.

---

Alan as much as you say what the debate should be about, arc will never let go of his lies about Singer and the sometimes readers won't do any more than give lip service. Redetz seems to have problems with writers using pen names, bigfoot probably didn't do all the reading I did on Rob's site that explained fully his strategies, I'm sure you couldn't have either, and even if arc visited Rob's house he'd claim it was a post-bail bankruptcy set up provided by the apartment complex owner. Why wouldn't he lie so much, he's been hurt so many times over by rob's tough words. If Rob said those things to me I'd probably put him in the hospital.

Just so you don't feel painted into a corner over my PM's to you, I'll release what I said here now. You shouldn't have to shoulder any burden as you try to steer the discussion into the right direction. I'll start by repeating what Rob told me on the phone about what and when he's posting. Arc says there's nothing, but early this month he said he's posting his singleplay strategy in detail. He's not going back to Pahrump and is relocating between SouthDakota and the Reno area, not sure, but he'll be settled by Nov 3 or 4 which by the way is when he said he'd start discussing any questions on his strategy post because of all the driving etcetera. He was going to go to Phoenix for thankgiving but now his family is going to go up to LakeTahoe where he will do something like he did last christmas with a lake cabin or something. I asked because I said I'd go with him to wherever it is his car and paperwork is stored. Not sure when that will be and I reminded him that people are waiting for it and arc will make up more lies until it's done. That he doesn't care about, and he said something arc would only get another ulcer over.

My PM. I'm know nothing about these internet addresses or anything to do with that, only what I'm told. I've met Rob in the past, and when I went to Pahrump to start hauling for extra money to help with my daughter's troubles, I parked in an RV park where I ran into rob by luck. I say luck because he's a decent person and he and his lovely wife took me out for dinner twice until he left. He uses a verizon hotspot for his internet as I do, it's cheap and reliable. When he left he worked out something for me to spoof arc with just to drive him up a wall and it for sure worked like a charm. It wasn't meant to give alan heartburn. For a short while he wrote the post and sent them to me and I posted them under his id, as I was also posting. He wanted the controversy an he knows about id addresses. He stopped doing that well over a month ago, his choice because I do owe him.

Alan I won't post anything more about this unless you have a question. I know arc will create some wild lie about it all and think he's solved the quiz of the century because he has too much time on his hands and hates Singer and craves to be known as a smarter guy than anyone else. Can't really fault him for that given what he has to put up with each day. Either way, singer says he doesn't really care about much of this and is only following through as he's able because he promised Alan. He's into another life now, anyone see that or care? I can an do, so give him some slack. I know arc won't because of the pain Rob's caused him. So be it. Spoofing on a forum where nobody knows nobody is hardly a crime.

Be well.

Okay -- let me get try to get this straight. The "spoofing" consisted of jatki posting under Rob's name from the same internet address as jatki was posting, and this was all an attempt to pull arci's strings and make arci think that jatki and rob had been discovered to be one and the same. Of course, it was all just "spoofing." And "he" stopped doing that over a month ago because "he's" on the road somewhere where you aren't? That seems a little strange -- so when the "spoofing" is going on, Rob leaves for another part of the country and doesn't post from there because that would ruin the "spoof?"

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up in a logical and thoroughly convincing manner.

And, just to be clear, where was this RV park where you and Rob happened to bump into each other?

I take it this storyline is from an old Ed Wood screenplay or something?

Yeah, I see Alan's point. Don't perturb the inmates until they've completed the questionaire that demonstrates they need to be in the asylum. Fair point, Alan.

Redetz I don't know what you mean by the same internet addresses but we were both in the rv park he was at for a time in Pahrump. Pahrump is a destination spot for a lot of winter birds and that's mainly where I haul to now. Singer knows what he was doing, I just did it with him and for him. When he got tired of reading the crap and sending me posts he quit. His goal was to hassle arc more, he did that but it probably took longer than he wanted. I think in honesty he feels bad for arc so he tries to keep his mind busy for him. That's just a guess.

You wouldn't do things the same and nobody else may but I probably wouldn't wanting to be doing anything you've done the past 30 years either. We're all different people, accept that. Why call us inmates? One thing you might think of doing is apologizing to Alan for all the trouble you and others gave him over what others were doing. You and they have made it into a much bigger issue than it is. you ought to all be wondering what magic power Singer holds over all of you to be so entwined in whatever he says and does. You hear anyone say he's a decent guy and has a wonderful wife and probably family, that goes right through the holes in your heads because all yous prefer to do is make up criticisms and in arcs case lies after lies. Go ahead and whomp on me for what I did, but look at yourselves and ask why it even was read-worthy.

Alan if you want to contact me I'll be at my email address. I may come back on after singer posts his strategy, if the inmates are allowed.

Jatki wrote: One thing you might think of doing is apologizing to Alan for all the trouble you and others gave him over what others were doing.

And that's coming from your mouth? You're one piece of work that's for sure! And that's not meant to be a compliment.

Jatki wrote: You hear anyone say he's a decent guy and has a wonderful wife and probably family, that goes right through the holes in your heads because all yous prefer to do is make up criticisms.

Man, get your head out of your ass!!!! The only thing you and Singer have been doing is show how disgusting you both are. Here you have it, an insult right back. You've both been a complete disgrace to this forum. Your and Singer's behavior has been so far out of line, you can't see the line anymore. This is by far the dumbest thing I have seen posted on this forum since it started.

Sorry Alan, but we don't have to let every dumb "white trash" statement slide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

you ought to all be wondering what magic power Singer holds over all of you to be so entwined in whatever he says and does.

---

I have been wondering this for quite a while. It really is amazing how much power Singer has over the group.

Do you all understand now why this is a mess? LOL

Also, to be fair to Rob: jatki sent a message to me that he posted under Rob's name. Rob never confirmed it. And to be honest, I never asked Rob about it because I thought it would also be wrong to reveal to Rob what jatki sent to me in a private message. Well, know that jatki has said it himself, we can wait to see if indeed Rob authorized jatki to make posts using his name.

By the way, it does make sense for the users of a RV park to be sharing the same IP address. So to have both jatki and Rob on the same IP address does not necessarily mean that the two were joined at the hip for the posts in question.

Okay. Now, let's wait for Rob to tell us about his system. That's really what we all want to know, isn't it? And once Rob tells us the details about his system and research, then the discussion will have some substantial information to dissect.

Over the last several months we have lost sight of whether Singer's system or any other system works. No one has offered an alternative system for consideration other than the math guys grind out. My experience has been that most of us neither have games with high enough pay-outs (about 96% in my area) nor enough time for the math guys grind.

How about some creative ideas pending publication of Singer's system. I can hear ARCI already saying the math can't be beat--but I beat craps for many years between jobs and I bet 4's and 10's and hard ways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by regnis

I can hear ARCI already saying the math can't be beat--but I beat craps for many years between jobs and I bet 4's and 10's and hard ways.

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Thanks for posting. I agree with you that the math can be beat. And I say this because anything can happen in gambling -- including beating the math and beating the negative expectation games. It amazes me that the "math guys" doom everyone to failure who plays a negative expectation game. Why must you lose?

Craps is a negative expectation game but it can be beaten either by luck or by skill. Frankly, I know few who have the skill to influence the dice or "control" the dice but it is possible.

I also think you can get lucky and beat video poker. After all, it is a game controlled by a random number generator, and if the RNG gives you the lucky combination of cards you can win.

Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that you will win playing a positive expectation game. So, if you can't guarantee winning a positive expectation game, how is it that the math guys can guarantee that you will lose playing a negative expectation game?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by regnis

Over the last several months we have lost sight of whether Singer's system or any other system works. No one has offered an alternative system for consideration other than the math guys grind out. My experience has been that most of us neither have games with high enough pay-outs (about 96% in my area) nor enough time for the math guys grind.

How about some creative ideas pending publication of Singer's system. I can hear ARCI already saying the math can't be beat--but I beat craps for many years between jobs and I bet 4's and 10's and hard ways.

---

Remember that the math only specifies a bell curve. It doesn't claim a game cannot be beat over the short term. It can be with any system. However, over time the probability is lower that any person will continue to exceed the expected return of their play. Why would anyone choose to play with an expected return that is lower? That only decreases their opportunity to win.

The only question is whether a person desires to give themselves the best opportunity for future success. In VP every hand is independent and no "system" is going to overcome the odds inherent in each and every hand. No "system" can change those odds. Therefore, the only way to improve the probability of success is to make sure every hand is played at the highest ER possible. After that we can only hope to be on the good side of the bell curve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

Alan as much as you say what the debate should be about, arc will never let go of his lies about Singer and the sometimes readers won't do any more than give lip service. Redetz seems to have problems with writers using pen names, bigfoot probably didn't do all the reading I did on Rob's site that explained fully his strategies, I'm sure you couldn't have either, and even if arc visited Rob's house he'd claim it was a post-bail bankruptcy set up provided by the apartment complex owner. Why wouldn't he lie so much, he's been hurt so many times over by rob's tough words. If Rob said those things to me I'd probably put him in the hospital.

---

All Rob needs to do is provide the address of where he lived and I can check the records. I've stated this before and Rob is completely silent. There is no house. You've fallen for the lies. Just because Rob treated you nice does not mean he isn't lying. He wanted something from you and he got it by simply playing you. Wise up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

Just so you don't feel painted into a corner over my PM's to you, I'll release what I said here now. You shouldn't have to shoulder any burden as you try to steer the discussion into the right direction. I'll start by repeating what Rob told me on the phone about what and when he's posting. Arc says there's nothing, but early this month he said he's posting his singleplay strategy in detail. He's not going back to Pahrump and is relocating between SouthDakota and the Reno area, not sure, but he'll be settled by Nov 3 or 4 which by the way is when he said he'd start discussing any questions on his strategy post because of all the driving etcetera. He was going to go to Phoenix for thankgiving but now his family is going to go up to LakeTahoe where he will do something like he did last christmas with a lake cabin or something. I asked because I said I'd go with him to wherever it is his car and paperwork is stored. Not sure when that will be and I reminded him that people are waiting for it and arc will make up more lies until it's done. That he doesn't care about, and he said something arc would only get another ulcer over.

---

So, no documentation to support his claims. Exactly like I have been telling everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

My PM. I'm know nothing about these internet addresses or anything to do with that, only what I'm told. I've met Rob in the past, and when I went to Pahrump to start hauling for extra money to help with my daughter's troubles, I parked in an RV park where I ran into rob by luck. I say luck because he's a decent person and he and his lovely wife took me out for dinner twice until he left. He uses a verizon hotspot for his internet as I do, it's cheap and reliable. When he left he worked out something for me to spoof arc with just to drive him up a wall and it for sure worked like a charm. It wasn't meant to give alan heartburn. For a short while he wrote the post and sent them to me and I posted them under his id, as I was also posting. He wanted the controversy an he knows about id addresses. He stopped doing that well over a month ago, his choice because I do owe him.

---

So, exactly like I have been telling everyone. His words under your name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jatki

Alan I won't post anything more about this unless you have a question. I know arc will create some wild lie about it all and think he's solved the quiz of the century because he has too much time on his hands and hates Singer and craves to be known as a smarter guy than anyone else. Can't really fault him for that given what he has to put up with each day. Either way, singer says he doesn't really care about much of this and is only following through as he's able because he promised Alan. He's into another life now, anyone see that or care? I can an do, so give him some slack. I know arc won't because of the pain Rob's caused him. So be it. Spoofing on a forum where nobody knows nobody is hardly a crime.

Be well.

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The bottom line is I called this scam perfectly. I've never lied once. All I've done is provided the facts on every issue. Singer and his tool have continually lied about everything. We now know there will be no supporting documentation as I also stated could not exist. Of course, that also means Rob was lying about that as well. Why would any reasonable person believe ANYTHING they say? Why would any reasonable person doubt anything that I have said when everything I've said has turned out to be true?

The truth hurts, Arci, even when it's in bold print and plain language in front of one's face. At least it hurts if you want to find a way to win at negative expectation games. Now let's see if we can avoid the pitfall of hitching our negative EV star to some other brilliant contributor from the gambling world who claims to have discovered a methodology for winning that doesn't make any mathematical sense.

Games of opinion, poker included, can be beaten. The problem with Rob is that he tried to reinvent video poker as a game of opinion.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Thanks for posting. I agree with you that the math can be beat. And I say this because anything can happen in gambling -- including beating the math and beating the negative expectation games. It amazes me that the "math guys" doom everyone to failure who plays a negative expectation game. Why must you lose?

Craps is a negative expectation game but it can be beaten either by luck or by skill. Frankly, I know few who have the skill to influence the dice or "control" the dice but it is possible.

I also think you can get lucky and beat video poker. After all, it is a game controlled by a random number generator, and if the RNG gives you the lucky combination of cards you can win.

Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that you will win playing a positive expectation game. So, if you can't guarantee winning a positive expectation game, how is it that the math guys can guarantee that you will lose playing a negative expectation game?

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My problem with the math (and this is not an attack on Arci because his mathematics are fact) in video poker is that whether I am getting 8-5 or 7-5 only means I'm getting a few more spins. My winning or losing is really dependent upon getting a bonus quad like aces with a kicker or even a lesser quad like 3's with a kicker. If I don't get the bonus quad I lose--plain and simple.

So if Singer has a system, or if Alan's system of taking every win, or any other system works short term, I'm all for it. My history has been pretty regular wins at a definitely negative expectation game of craps (especially since I'm not a 6 and 8 or pass and 2 comes guy), and terrible losses with almost perfect play at video poker regardless of the payback (8-5; 7-5; etc.)

"Personal history" doesn't trump "history" in general. It's just part of "history."

I was mugged by three short white guys wearing no shirts. That doesn't mean I should avoid the beach.

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Originally Posted by redietz

"Personal history" doesn't trump "history" in general. It's just part of "history."

I was mugged by three short white guys wearing no shirts. That doesn't mean I should avoid the beach.

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Some guys would call taht a "good night"