Is Harrah's Rincon expanding??

I am trying to check this out but perhaps someone knows this: is Harrah's Rincon expanding, and adding a new building that will make it larger than Pechanga, and if so, it would make Rincon the biggest casino in the West with more slots and table games than anything in Vegas?

Update at 4:25pm: A host at Rincon confirms that they are expanding their hotel and casino but offered no additional info.

But I found on the web that an environment report was filed on the project because Rincon is on federal trust lands. The report includes:

The expansion will include approximately 16,846 square feet of additional gaming floor, a 2,500-seat multi-purpose room, expanded restaurant and ancillary facilities, a 21-story, 402-room hotel tower, pool area expansion, and an additional surface parking area (Proposed Project).

I can't imagine that Rincon's expansion will make the casino larger than Pechanga's casino. Pechanga's casino has more than 200,000 square feet of gaming space, according to its website. Rincon's casino expansion would be less than 10% of what Pechanga has now.

Frankly, I would hate to see Rincon get too big. I describe as a "Goldilocks casino" in that it's not too big, and it's not too small, but it's just right.

Actually, size does not matter -- but quality matters. I don't care if a casino has sixty table games or 2,000 slot machines. What I care about is that the paytables on the video poker game I play are fair, and that the dealers at the table games are friendly, and I care about a smoke-free gaming area being available when the casino is crowded with smokers.

Thats exciting news for Rincon. I wonder why they are expanding? The casino isnt in the best of locations but they must be making big bucks to add on. Does anyone know when their contract with Harrahs is up? Im trying my best to boycott local casinos because CA doesnt allow slots to pay back more than 100.00. Also, I dont like the service I get at Rincon. However, the proximity of Rincon and its connection to Vegas always brings me back.

According to the CET annual report Rincon currently has 72,900 square feet of gaming floor, so an added 17,000 or so would be about 20%. Hopefully this will at least return the poker room out from its purgatory upstairs. I've stopped by there a few times and it always seems too quiet. Also according to the CET report, the agreement for Rincon ends November 2013. However I am sure they are getting people to drive the extra half hour because of the Harrah's name. Take that away and it's just another mediocre Indian casino - on par with the closer in ones, which can get away with less benefits because they are closer in.

Good info, calwatch, thanks. I have to agree with you -- the only reason to make the extra drive to Rincon is for the Total Rewards benefits that you can use in Vegas. Take Vegas out of the equation and you might as well go to Pechanga.

Besides the extra drive, don't forget that the drive to Rincon can also be very dangerous -- whether you take the "back road" past Pechanga, or if you take the main "Pala exit." There is a reason there are so many memorials along the twists and turns of the roads to Rincon.

I have to pick up a rig in San Diego this weekend. Is Rincon far off the beaten track?

Rincon is about 20 minutes east of the 15 Freeway take either the exit for Pala or the exit for Temecula. Be aware there are steep grades and sharp turns but big tour buses do travel the route. http://www.harrahsrincon.com/casinos...formation.html

I always take the Pala exit. About the same amount of time and far easier to drive.

Posting from my room in the garden tower at rincon. I saw evidence of construction tonight outside south of the gas station and facing the hotel check in desk but nothing in the casino. However, they could certainly use better food options here. So hopefully they nail that in the new construction.

Bigfoot while you're there, check a couple of things for me:

1. I heard that once the gift shop closes around midnight, there is no way to get a soft drink unless you are playing a game and get a cocktail waitress or buy one from the 24 hour cafe. In other words, no vending machines. The gift shop sells soft drinks.

2. Is there room service for late night meals? I've seen hotel guests picking up "to go" orders from the 24 hour cafe.

3. And we always appreciate a check on the video poker room for changes.

Enjoy your stay!!

Hi Alan,
did not check in here again while I was out there but I do have some knowledge of these things.
1) My experience is that a bartender will normally give you a soft drink or even fruit juice comp. I am usually playing a bartop game when I ask but I am sure that flashing a diamond or higher card would be sufficient if you were not playing. If you do not wish to take this route I know of vending machines near the bathrooms by high limit, but I am not sure if they are snacks or drinks as I don't pay much attention. There are definately soda machines on each floor of the hotel near the ice machines. The elevators require key access but if you are not a guest of the hotel there might be some on the first floor of the garden tower that you could access, not sure.

2) Have not ordered room service at Rincon but I would imagine it ends around midnight.

3) I noticed no changes on the VP front. Meant to check out the dream card machine but forgot to. Although normally a quarter player I decided to take a $100 pot shot on the $5 ACES bonus game, but I get trips on the first hand and the $50 profit was tempting enough for me to stop. To bad I pissed the money away at baccarat.

The vending machines near the bathrooms by the high limit area are for candy only. $1 per candy bar. No drink machines anywhere near the casino. However, I was told there is a drink machine somewhere in the hotel area but I was told it was hard to find.

I think a hotel without room service after midnight can't be much of a "resort hotel." No room service is what I would expect at the Holiday Inn. (And there is nothing wrong with Holiday Inn, by the way.)

I guarantee you that there is a soda machine on every floor of both towers right next to the elevators, except I am not sure if there is one on the first floor of the garden tower. I mean there's gotta be an ice machine there, thats where the big suites are, and where there's an ice machine there's usually a soda machine. I just haven't stayed on that floor and don't know for a fact that there is one. Do you not like asking for a free one at the bar?

Not being a drinker, I don't frequent the bar.

Rincon used to have free soft drink dispensers on the casino floor but those went away a couple of years ago. Remember?

And getting back to the original topic... did you happen to ask anyone about the expansion?

There is a Pepsi machine near the bus waiting area. The cost is $2 for a 20 ounce of water or soda. It's right by the back entrance.

The first time I took the bus was a couple of weeks ago. Here is my report:
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Despite being a frequent "gamer" at Harrahs/Caesars casinos, yesterday night was the first time I ever rode a casino bus. I took the "Card Club" shuttle from Downey to Harrah's Rincon. I left work early and drove to the Commerce pick up location, next to the post office, but was skeptical of the parking situation there, so I soldiered on to Downey. There were quite a few people that got on the bus for a Wednesday - about 20 or so people, which combined with the people that did board at Commerce and Bell Gardens - incidentally, the "card club" name is a misnomer since the pickup locations are nowhere near the eponymous card clubs - almost every row of seats on the bus was taken with at least one person.

Demographically, the crowd was majority Hispanic, middle aged and older people. I was probably the youngest person on the bus. Most people were dropped off but there were some who used the CVS parking lot, myself included, although technically it is for customers only. Since it is a 24 hour CVS, there are employees there 24/7. The bus picked up on the north side of the store, which is unique in that it has a "garden center" from the Sav On days (most of those were shut down a long time ago). The bus did not stop at the entrance. There is street parking on the west side of CVS, which I may end up using next time in order to avoid the risk of a tow.

The ride to Harrah's was uneventful. The operator of the bus is Silver State Trailways. The baggage and food rule was not enforced and so people brought their own snacks, water bottles, pillows, and small bags on board, although I would not bring a duffel bag or roll-on. An older woman checked their walker into the undercarriage of the bus. The route from Downey took it through the Norwalk Narrows, but used the 91 Express Lanes once in Orange County. The ride took about two and a half hours in rush hour traffic. The air conditioning was on full blast and so I put on a jacket, and many other people put on sweaters. Most tried to nap on the way. Someone passed a plastic bag to collect tips for the driver. I asked what the expected tip was and they said $1 or $2. I tipped $1, thinking I would have to tip on the way back (it turns out tips were not collected on the way back, nor did passengers give the driver any money while leaving). They do check IDs and scan rewards card on arrival. If you don't have a rewards card they give you a slip which is your ticket back and encourage you to get a card while there. The casino host did note that one person did not have ID and I'm not sure what they did with them. Many people left their blankets and pillows on the bus, since it is the same bus coming back.

At Harrah's I lost a few hundred playing video poker - which made up for my gains on my recent New Orleans and Biloxi trip and then some. In the middle, I collected my free buffet, which is their current promo (gamble for 50 Total Rewards Credits - which is $500 coin in on video poker, and which I did in less than half an hour playing 9/5 jacks $1 3/5 play super times pay) and it was excellent. It's not like the Bellagio buffet, which is my gold standard, or the Rio seafood buffet, which would be my silver, but similar to a Strip buffet like that at the Flamingo or the regular Rio buffet. The normal price was $23.99. I debated over taking the buffet vs. taking the $20 food credit and going to Pink's, but $20 at Pink's would get you two hot dogs, fries, and a drink. I wanted to eat something more than hot dogs, though. At the buffet I had crab legs (which were on par with the cheap Chinese buffets in that the meat requiring picking to get off the skin, rather than just coming off), pot roast, lasagna, macaroni and cheese, "street tacos" (which are fresh made tortillas and meat), and some strawberries which were dipped from the fondue fountain, among other things. Unfortunately they were slow on filling my drink.

After eating I sat down at a Dreamcard poker machine, which I was confused about and so promptly lost $25. I then moved over to 25 cent bonus poker, which was not that satisfying, and so I played at the $1 level, which of course magnified my losses. I would rather play multi play at smaller denominations because I love the ride, although it is killer on your bankroll if your luck is bad. I took some walks around the area - there is a walking trail through the parking lot, and they recently opened at 7-11 which features a Citibank ATM, allowing you to escape the atrociously high fees of casino ATMs. I didn't pull out any additional money, though.

Supposedly, you are supposed to return on the same bus you boarded. The driver took a head count while leaving Downey, but I did not see him do a head count when we left Rincon. None of the slips were collected, nor were cards rescanned to make sure people got on the right bus, so hypothetically at least you could continue somewhere else. In any case, we boarded and the driver put on a Mexican movie on the bus. It was loud and annoying, and a lot of people wanted to get sleep, but once we got on the 15 freeway the movie was blissfully shut off. Note that the route the bus uses goes down Pala-Temecula road, and not via I-15 and state route 76 as would be the normal route. It turns out that, although Pala Temecula Road has many curves, that it is a good 10 miles shorter than 15 to 76, and also has less traffic. We left Rincon at 10:30 pm and got to Downey at 12:30 AM.

Since my trip will probably trigger an endless stream of offers in the mail (much like my trips to Laughlin lead to a circular every other day), I would take the Rincon bus to avoid having to drive annoying Highway 76. If I ran out of money or wanted a change in pace I would take the NCTD bus to go to another casino. The NCTD 388/389 bus serves the casinos on a bidirectional loop every two hours. If you can abide by the baggage restrictions, it also would be a cheap way to get you halfway to San Diego, with a connection to NCTD and I-15 express service or Sprinter in Escondido. The Harrah's buses leave throughout Southern California.
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The only Harrah's/Caesars that has general free soda fountains that I have been to (and I've done Great Race so I've been to most Caesars/Harrahs on the West) is Ak-Chin.

Thanks for the trip report. I've always been curious about the bus. Is there supposed to be free car parking somewhere along the route?

Some of the locations are at park and rides. Others are at shopping center parking lots where you aren't supposed to park in, but they may let you slide. The Bellflower stop, which is very popular, specifically forbids parking by casino patrons, and has gone as far to ban casino buses from stopping on their property. http://www.bellflower.org/docs/chart..._continued.pdf Most of the people I saw got dropped off, but there were a few who parked and rode.

Thanks calwatch. I guess that means the bus service isn't really meant for anyone who drives.

After having gone to Rincon this one time, I probably won't be going back. It was a nice enough place and I'm sure the rooms are decent, but it's such an annoying drive to get in and out. Too bad it isn't right off a freeway like some of the big nice places I've seen on Interstate 10 between the Palm Springs area and LA.

Jatki that casino on the 10 is Morongo. But Pechanga is just five minutes off the 15 on major "urban" roads and frankly it has better VP than Rincon.

hi have a good day! I just wanna ask what can you say on shuttle to PDX?

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Originally Posted by zanjoecollins

hi have a good day! I just wanna ask what can you say on shuttle to PDX?

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The shuttle service you are promoting is in Oregon and provides shuttle service to your airport and other areas. I doubt you provide a shuttle service to Harrah's Rincon Casino.

But since you posted on this thread, an update: construction on the new tower, pool, and casino is well under way and the pool is supposed to open in July and changes are going on in the casino. The coffee bar area is going to be replaced, and what was the sports bar area is going to be moved, and they have shifted around some of the popular games.

My only concern has been that Rincon to me was always a "Goldilocks Casino" meaning it was not too big, it was not too small, and it was just right. But when you double the size of the hotel and add convention space and catering halls you know that it won't be a "just right" casino anymore. Could it become Pechange #2 ??

Here is a tip for the cafe at the Rincon.

They have some obnoxious $3 take-out charge.

If you tell them you are a Seven Stars and ask for the manager, they will waive that charge (in a backdoor fashion by discounting your food $3 and then charging the $3 takeout fee). Very useful when you are by yourself, want to eat in your room, but don't want to pay for the takeout packaging (which is stupid, because they give it to you for free if you take one bite in the restaurant and say you want to take the rest back to your room.)

These guys are gonna start charging $20 a head to use their pool too. https://www.facebook.com/HarrahsRinc...90322544333196

I am so sick of being nickeled and dimed by these people. I drive past casinos that are just as nice with better games to get to Harrah's just to put up with this crap. I am sick of it and after my Diamond status expires I am done with Rincon.

I know that Pechanga now has better video ppker than Rincon across the board.

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

These guys are gonna start charging $20 a head to use their pool too. https://www.facebook.com/HarrahsRinc...90322544333196

I am so sick of being nickeled and dimed by these people. I drive past casinos that are just as nice with better games to get to Harrah's just to put up with this crap. I am sick of it and after my Diamond status expires I am done with Rincon.

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I have never stayed there. But if you are a hotel guest, is the pool included? Does this place have a "resort fee" that might cover the pool charges?

In the mail on Saturday there was a flyer about the pool with two pool admission coupons, but no mention if hotel guests also have to pay for the pool or if the pool was included.

I can understand a hotel charging non-hotel guests for "day passes" but to charge hotel guests? No.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I have never stayed there. But if you are a hotel guest, is the pool included? Does this place have a "resort fee" that might cover the pool charges?

In the mail on Saturday there was a flyer about the pool with two pool admission coupons, but no mention if hotel guests also have to pay for the pool or if the pool was included.

I can understand a hotel charging non-hotel guests for "day passes" but to charge hotel guests? No.

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The link says that hotel guests will generously be given a BOGO on pool access. Between the above mentioned fee on takeout food, the new fee for check cashing, this BS fee to use the pool, the resort fees in Vegas (after years of a "NO RESORT FEE" ad campaign), The fee to check in before 4:00 at the Vegas hotels, etc. I don't feel like the valued VIP that total rewards once made me feel like.

The overall problem is that in an attempt to have "low room prices" the casino/hotels have added extra fees to offset the lower room charges. If they only priced the rooms properly, there would be no need for the fees which are, for the most part, controversial.

So the choice for consumers comes down to this: Would you prefer to pay (for example) $89 for a room plus the additional fees of $40 (total $129)... or would you prefer an upfront room charge of $129 with no additional add-on fees?

As I mentioned in my post, I just hate feeling so nickeled and dimed by these people. They send me a glitzy mailer for $10 in free slot credit and then stinging me for $6 when I use the ATM, etc etc. It is just frustrating. The real problem is that if MGM is charging a resort fee and CZR is not, then MGM rooms look cheaper on Travelocity even though both rooms are the same price. While I can't blame 'em on that front, I really just feel like the whole pricing model is very deceptive. Your example is fine except that I generally don't use the things included in the resort fee. Besides, it is one thing to have expensive optional charges, its another to have a price and then tack on a mandatory fee. Imagine if the grocery store advertised a 6 pack as $4 plus a $2 beverage fee, it doesn't make a lot of sense on the surface.

I feel your pain Bigfoot...as low level players though, we have to fit the bill for everyone else. I have completely stopped going to Rincon altogether. I am now making the change from Caesars to downtown (4 Queens). My last trip to Vegas I booked a free room at Flamingo and also stayed at 4 Queens. The Queens gives me great offers for food, freeplay, rooms, and shows.

My level of play with Caesars is Diamond (40,000 tier credits)...the same action at the Queens gives me high roller treatment lol. Make the switch to downtown and keep your Caesars account active for free rooms etc...

Jamie if I remember correctly you are mostly a craps player, right? I am with you on downtown but when my friends go to Vegas they want to be on the strip so while I like downtown better I feel kind of stuck. The new Plaza players club will give a big bonus in freeplay on Royals for VP players, this could make the plaza very attractive, especially since the rooms are nicer than 4 Queens (in my experience) and they will match tier status with CZR.

Charging guests to use the pool is absolutely outrageous. I don't care how good the pool supposedly is.

I think they let Seven Stars members use it for free, but that's not the point. This is despicable.

Resort fees should be illegal, as they only exist to mislead the consumer. The FTC is investigating, and hopefully will outlaw them soon.

I still think Caesar's made a mistake by adding resort fees to their rooms, especially on the heels of a "No Resort Fees" advertising campaign which was wholly successful. I know many people who chose Caesar's properties specifically because of the lack of resort fees.

The nickel-and-diming is a huge mistake. They are thinking too short-term. If customers get pissed off with the nickel-and-diming, that's what remains in their head -- not the "lower" base hotel rate, and not anything good about their experience. They will remember things like having to pay $10/head to use the pool and $3 to take out a meal from the cafe. These casinos make most of their money from gaming, so they should focus everything there and be rather generous when it comes to extras, rather than cheaping out and charging the customer for everything.

Interestingly, the whole concept of the Vegas Strip was to stop the nickel-and-diming, which is why all of the parking garages are free while downtown required you to either pay or get validated.

BTW tier status matching is nice, but it doesn't really do much for you. Your offers mainly come from your play, not your card status. Your card status just gets you certain perks, but most aren't important.

The only really worthwhile card status to have is Caesar's Seven Stars, since it comes with some base benefits that are really nice (the guaranteed comp rooms in any market is the best part).

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Resort fees should be illegal, as they only exist to mislead the consumer. The FTC is investigating, and hopefully will outlaw them soon.

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Whoa!!! Tell us more about this!!

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Whoa!!! Tell us more about this!!

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http://www.meetingsfocus.com/Article...9/Default.aspx

Don't expect miracles here, but it's nice they're at least looking into it and taking a little action.

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

Jamie if I remember correctly you are mostly a craps player, right? I am with you on downtown but when my friends go to Vegas they want to be on the strip so while I like downtown better I feel kind of stuck. The new Plaza players club will give a big bonus in freeplay on Royals for VP players, this could make the plaza very attractive, especially since the rooms are nicer than 4 Queens (in my experience) and they will match tier status with CZR.

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I did not know Plaza would match tier status with CZR; that's a pretty good deal.

I am mostly a craps player, I only stay at the Queens because they give me great deals and it was the first casino I ever gambled in. I double book rooms when I head to Vegas; I stay at both Queens and on the strip. My buddies love the strip so I usually stay where we will be "clubbing." The Total Rewards offers are not attractive to me anymore...

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

BTW tier status matching is nice, but it doesn't really do much for you. Your offers mainly come from your play, not your card status. Your card status just gets you certain perks, but most aren't important.

The only really worthwhile card status to have is Caesar's Seven Stars, since it comes with some base benefits that are really nice (the guaranteed comp rooms in any market is the best part).

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I certainly agree with this generally, but it appears that one of the perks of the new Royal Rewards at the plaza is a freeplay bonus for royals on VP. The bottom is a 10% bonus, the top tier gets a 100% bonus. That basically means that royals pay 1600 for one instead of 800 to one and is enough to make the 9/6 JoB machines 101.86%, and I predict that this opportunity will not last long.

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Originally Posted by JamieV

I did not know Plaza would match tier status with CZR; that's a pretty good deal.

I am mostly a craps player, I only stay at the Queens because they give me great deals and it was the first casino I ever gambled in. I double book rooms when I head to Vegas; I stay at both Queens and on the strip. My buddies love the strip so I usually stay where we will be "clubbing." The Total Rewards offers are not attractive to me anymore...

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I am seriously considering putting in a lot of play at the D. I love the Queens casino but when I have stayed there I have been not pleased with the rooms.

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

I certainly agree with this generally, but it appears that one of the perks of the new Royal Rewards at the plaza is a freeplay bonus for royals on VP. The bottom is a 10% bonus, the top tier gets a 100% bonus. That basically means that royals pay 1600 for one instead of 800 to one and is enough to make the 9/6 JoB machines 101.86%, and I predict that this opportunity will not last long.

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Do you have to be a registered guest for this bonus? Or can you just sign up for a player's card -- show them your 7Stars card -- and play there?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Do you have to be a registered guest for this bonus? Or can you just sign up for a player's card -- show them your 7Stars card -- and play there?

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I want to know this too. If I can show my 7 Stars card and get 1600 for Royals, I will be spending some time at the Plaza.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Do you have to be a registered guest for this bonus? Or can you just sign up for a player's card -- show them your 7Stars card -- and play there?

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Not sure yet, program begins July 1. I see no reason why you would have to be a hotel guest but rooms are maybe $30 there (plus resort fee) and getting comped for a player like you should be a trivial matter. When I got tier matching at the Cosmopolitan I just showed them my total rewards card and that was it. I actually recieved a piece of mail from the Plaza yesterday saying they would start me out at the "queen" (2nd from bottom) level but I hope that flashing my diamond card will get me knocked up a little higher.

Note that while the 9/6 JoB game return is very high, the variance is over 80, about double that of 9/6 DDB. It will be a wild ride. I am sure that to get the full return you will be making radical strategy changes, I would imagine that you hold all K/10 suited and even A/10 suited. I have not generated a strategy but playing optimally you will get a royal every 32,743 hands instead of every ~40,000 hands. Playing with the VP app I noticed that proper strategy is to hold AKQh over 5s5c.

Wow, you would also hold QQ from AKQh Q7s