Why I like the "Fire Bet" at craps.

A lot of people like to play craps at casinos.

But the problem with craps is that the payoffs on any particular bet are relatively small. Some bets pay as little as $7 for every $6 you bet. On most craps tables, the highest paying bet might pay $30 for $1.

If you want a big payoff for a small bet you are more likely to play slot machines where, for example, a $3 bet on a mega jackpot machine could win you millions. And in video poker a $5 bet could get you $4,000 if you hit a royal flush.

Well, a couple of years ago, the "Fire Bet" was invented -- and this is like a jackpot bet at craps. At most casinos the "Fire Bet" pays a maximum of 5,000 to 1, so a $1 bet can win $5,000.

The Fire Bet wins if one shooter makes passes on all six numbers in craps -- the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 10. Make all six, which happens about once in 6,100 shooters, and you win $5,000 for your $1 bet. There are smaller payoffs if the shooter makes 4 or 5 different passes.

But why I like the Fire Bet is because you can win a lot at a game that usually doesn't pay a lot unless you bet a lot. When you are only getting perhaps 2-to-1 on a bet at craps, you have to bet a lot to win a lot. Except when the Fire Bet is made.

In fact, you have a better shot at hitting the thousand-to-one payoff on the Fire Bet than you are at hitting a royal flush in video poker.

The chance of hitting a royal flush on any single play or bet is about one in 40,000. The chance of hitting the six numbers for the maximum payoff on the Fire Bet is about one in 6,100.

In video poker you have to bet $1.25 to hit a royal flush that pays $1,000.
In craps, you have to bet $1 to hit the Fire Bet that pays $1,000.

Making the fire bet costs you less to win $1,000 and your Fire Bet will last longer than each bet at video poker meaning that over the same amount of time, you will lose less with the Fire Bet than you will betting to hit a royal at video poker.

I had a chat with a friend this evening who came back from a trip to Las Vegas where he played craps at tables with the Fire Bet. He said he made the Fire Bet on every shooter, and he played in excess of 10 hours. He estimated that in the course of ten hours of play that there were about 80 different shooters, or eight dice throwers per hour, or one shooter about every eight or nine minutes.

Some shooters, he told me had good rolls and made several passes. At least a half dozen shooters, he told me, had more than six passes each including multiple "naturals" on the come out roll -- and these "naturals" are when the shooter throws a 7 or 11. But he really isn't sure if these "counts" of "good shooters" is 100% correct.

But there is one "count" from his trip that he is 100% certain about: his $10 Fire Bet, which was made about 80 times for a total of about $800, only paid off once when one shooter made four different numbers. That one Fire Bet returns $250 as it pays 25-to-1 when four different "points" are made.

Overall, a net loss for him, he estimates, of $550.

I only know of three shooters who have hit all six numbers, winning the top Fire Bet that pays $1,000 for each $1 bet. I know of about a half dozen shooters who have made 4 or 5 different "points" to win other Fire Bet payoffs.

But the bottom line is that the Fire Bet is still a long shot. And, you could be at a table where a shooter keeps pounding away at 6s and 8s and wins a lot of money but never makes enough different "points" to earn a payoff on the Fire Bet.

Fire bets are not a bad bet, your friend just bet too much per bet. If you just bet a buck or two it can pay a decent reward, the most I bet is $5.

Harrah's KC, hit 5 of 6 on a fire bet with a $5 bet, paid $1,000. Total for the night, up, $900 and that included having to buy drinks and pay for my wife playing slots for 8 hours.

I have hit several fire bets at Harrah's in KC although overall I am down :( due to other betting.

This summer hit a 5 of 6 fir bet at Bally's in LV, first casino we stopped in upon arriving, placed a $1 on fire bet and won $250 on that plus $28 on place bets in the from the same roler. The gentleman next to me explained if I learned how to bet I would make more money, when asking him how much he had won net for the night so far he was down ONLY $5200. Didn't take advice from him:)

After winning I took my winning and moved on. One thing we love about Vegas, you can move around and take your winnings. Sooner or later if you stay at a casino too long, they will beat you. That's why they are in business.

Well, now I have the bug, maybe go for a session for New Year's and try my luck.

Happy New Year all!

I was at Caesars Palace in LV this weekend... and twice the Fire Bet hit for all six numbers. It happened Friday night - and both times it was at the same table and the two rolls were less than an hour apart. I was not there myself, so I can't tell you how many players were on the Fire Bet or what they wagered. Caesars allows a maximum of $10 for each fire bet which would be a payoff of $10-thousand per player making the maximum bet.

The only Fire Bet payoff I got during the weekend when I rolled and made four different points and my $10 bet returned $250. To be honest, I didn't see many winners in the craps pit over the weekend, and I certainly wasn't a winner. But I still make a Fire Bet on every shooter because you never known when lightning will strike.

I wanted to revisit this because I've been hearing about players getting lots of payoffs on the fire bet. Several players have reported the Fire Bet hitting for at least 4 numbers at Harrah's Rincon (pays 25 to one).

I had a good experience the other night there when I played craps on a whim at a $5 table with only a small "buy in" and low-level pressing.

Over my lifetime, I have no doubt that I lost a lot of money playing craps. But on the Fire Bet alone I am pretty sure I have a profit... and a nice one.

The other night I won $1250 hitting five points with a $5 bet at Harrah's Rincon in San Diego. Now this was only luck, and no skill involved because Harrah's Rincon is a card craps casino where the results of the dice have no relation to the numbers shown on the cards. For example, a 5-2 on the dice might choose the cards that are 4-4.

On the actual "hand" my profit was only about $350 starting with a $5 passline bet and $27 across, or a total "investment" of $32 plus the $5 Fire Bet. See the thumbnail below of the Fire Bet numbers hit at Rincon, click on the thumbnail to expand the photo.



A couple of months ago, I won $2500 with $10 on the Fire Bet hitting five numbers at Caesars. My profit on the regular craps table bets was about $1300, and this was at a $25 table. See the photo below:

http://www.alanbestbuys.com/sitebuil...20804-1854.jpg

True, I could have won more from "table bets" had I bet more and pressed aggressively but I don't. The fire bet gives "leverage" that no other bet on a craps table can give.

One Fire Bet win of $1250 or $2500 coveres a lot of Fire Bets that don't hit. And when all six numbers are "hit" for a 1000 to 1 payoff, it covers a lot more Fire Bets that you miss.

I absolutely Love the Fire Bet! Have won the 6 point twice: once for $5 and once for $10 and never forget the dealer's $1!
The adrenaline rush and table excitement first marking the 6th number and then making it is incredible. I sent an email to the creator of the Fire Bet to thank him for the "RUSH" and he sent me a cap and t-shirt. he sold the Fire Bet to IGT for a few million$$$.

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Originally Posted by russkg

he sold the Fire Bet to IGT for a few million$$$.

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Actually it was sold to Shufflemaster. SHFL

Thanks Alan for the correction. I heard Perry is now selling Table Game advertising of some sort. He sure created an exciting game in the Fire Bet. When I play Crap tables without it, its not the same. The All Tall Small bet at MGM casinoes is exciting too but still nothing close to the Adrenaline Rush of 6 point Fire Bet hand! Its surreal!

It's funny that you mentioned "table game advertising" russkg, because when I was at Rincon they have a little video player on the side of the table in the spot that usually shows the bet limits. This video player rotated photos of the casino as well as the betting limits on the table. It made me think that it could be used to also display advertisements, similar to the video displays that you see in retail stores now. Below is a photo of a video display on a drug store shelf. Is something like this what you were referring to? (click on the thumbnail to enlarge)

Sounds like what Perry was already selling to the Casino Corporations. Table Games Video Advertising. Sales and Marketing is everywhere and Vegas has some of the most innovative. I once saw a Truck driving down the strip with live pole dancers in an aquarium like trailer!!! Las Vegas airport is like a huge bill board. Anyway sorry to get off topic...Damn those 6 point Fire Bets are super exciting!!!

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Originally Posted by russkg

Damn those 6 point Fire Bets are super exciting!!!

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A four point fire bet is good enough. Consider this:

If you bet $10 on the Fire Bet (which you can do at many Vegas casinos) and four points are hit, the bet pays $250.
Let's say you are betting at a $25 table. If you place all the numbers across, your initial outlay is $130 or $135.
Add the passline bet for $25, and if the first point is a 6 or 8, full odds would be $125.
So, your initial outlay is:

Fire Bet $10
Numbers across $130 (point is 6)
Passline $25
Full odds $125
total $290

So if you hit the four number fire bet for $250 it pays back almost the entire initial outlay, meaning that just about every payoff after that (without pressing) is pure profit.

Now consider the profits:

On the point of 6 your profit would be $25 on the passline + $150 for the odds = $175
On the point of 4 your profit would be $25 on the passline + $150 for the odds = $175
On the point of 5 your profit would be $25 on the passline + $150 for the odds = $175
On the point of 9 your profit would be $25 on the passline + $150 for the odds = $175

Total profit on four different points hit = $700
Fire Bet Payoff = 250
Total win = $1000
Initial outlay = $ 290
Net profit = $ 710 And this net profit is without one other number hitting, and without any repeaters (hitting a pass point a second time) and without any come-out winners.

This is how I describe the "magic" of the Fire Bet -- it replaces your original outlay of betting money.

Keep in mind that if 5 different passline bets are hit with full odds the Fire Bet payoff increases to $2,500
And the player would get another $175 for the passline bet and odds bet profit.

And if all 6 different passline bets are hit with full odds the Fire Bet payoff is $10,000 (1,000 times the amount bet)
And the player would get another $175 for the passline bet and odds bet profit.

On a 6 point Fire Bet payoff, with NO additional numbers rolled, and with NO repeat points, and with NO come out winners, at a $25 table with an initial outlay of $290 the player would walk away with $11,410 which is more than 39 times the initial outlay.

That is what makes the Fire Bet so alluring.

Alan, Yes the outstanding odds make it alluring but for me, the main attraction to the Fire Bet is the shear difficulty and the joint excitement and energy that I have had the great fortune to have experienced twice. The excitement slowly builds from making the 3rd point, marking the fourth point, then making the fourth point, then marking the fifth point, then making the fifth point, then marking the 6th point and then finally nailing that sixth point! Its orgasmic, pure joy, miraculous, electric, surreal!!! And with everyone including the dealers completely into this rare and difficult goal all bonded together for a common goal of making a 6 point Fire Bet----The money is great but its the experience, the camaraderie, the adrenaline, just like a drug-- I want to feel it again!

Question perhaps for another thread: Do you hedge the 5th and 6th Points with lay bets for the sure thing or go for the full payout? That topic has been debated on other gambling boards.

I've taken part in those discussions about laying the last point, and I have always said "no." It's almost a jinx if you do lay the number, isn't it? And we craps players are all very superstitious folks... something the video poker APs could never appreciate.

The jinx or negativity of the lay? The two times I won all 6 I did not hedge and lay the 5th and 6th points. I've hedged and laid the 5th and 6th and not made the points on several occasions. From a $ point of view, laying the 5th and 6th points is the smart play as its one of the only times at a Casino when no matter what the outcome, you can't lose!!! That said, being a gambler craving the rush, not wanting to jinx the table with any negative energy...I gotta go with the don't lay the 5th and 6th points and go for the full experience. Next trip to a Crap Table with a Fire Bet is not until Summer. As a chronic player, I am jonesing for my next fix LOL!

Hey Alan. I Have not played the "Card Version" of Craps with a Fire Bet and it sound like you have. How does the excitement of real dice vs card craps compare during a Fire Bet winning hand?

It is a very strange experience playing card craps because the numbers showing on the dice have no relation to the value of the cards so there are two moments of terror on each roll.

"Two Moments of Terror" ? Isn't playing Craps supposed to be fun!

I have a cousin who lives in San Diego. Perhaps I need an excuse to visit and I understand that a Harrahs Casino is near by. Intrigued by the Terror comment!

I would not hedge the last 1 or 2 points in craps. But in horse racing, if alive in a pick 6 (1st 5 races in) and have 4 or 5 horses in leg 6, or a pick 4 or 5 and on last leg, I do bet a couple hundred on all the others. But in that case, the pick 6 is paying $25,000 to $100,000 or more, and the other horses that you hedge with are usually long shots so the win is substantial and the hedge worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by russkg

"Two Moments of Terror" ? Isn't playing Craps supposed to be fun!

I have a cousin who lives in San Diego. Perhaps I need an excuse to visit and I understand that a Harrahs Casino is near by. Intrigued by the Terror comment!

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Craps is fun when little money is at stake. When you have a lot of money on the table or you are knocking on the door of a big pay off such as the fire bet, each roll of the dice or flip of the cards is TERROR.

:) I am a naive optimist on the crap table. My engineer (math minded) friend think I am fool for loving craps but they lead rather "dull" lives :cool: Terror is something I associate with a centipede in my sleeping blanket, getting caught on a nearly dry reef surfing 20 ft surf, public speaking... I love everything about a Crap Table. Even an ice cold table can be interesting by venturing to the dark side for a change.

I hope to enter the Fire Bet Payoff Zone again soon! Its so thrilling (to me anyway) and the sheer genuine anticipation of the next roll cannot be beat. My wife and mom lives for VP but I will take a crap table with a Fire Bet anyday!