regnis a good question. Consider this: sitting next to us at the New Year's Dinner and at the J-Lo show at Caesars were a couple from Canada who were low level Diamond players who came to Vegas twice a year. By the way, our dinner table was up in front at the dance floor, band, and we had orchestra seats for the show. They didn't have to be 7 Stars to get the same thing we did.
I have calculated this. Like, not to an exact number, because that's impossible (not knowing how often I'll be using the hotel room benefit), but I have figured out that it's definitely worth getting Seven Stars if you really plan to use all of the benefits (and enjoy using them).Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
The reason Diamond is much inferior is because it doesn't come with guaranteed free hotel rooms, which is a huge difference. It also lacks the other major freebies/discounts given with Seven Stars, with the exception of the $750 airfare at Diamond Aspriations II, but that's more than half way to Seven Stars.
Also, you can earn Seven Stars and keep the benefits for as many as 27 months under the current system, depending upon when you earn it.
I totally get what you're saying, and it can especially be frustrating if you lose 5 figures on the way to chasing Seven Stars, at which point is is NOT worth it. But by average/expected loss, it's totally worth it.
Alan is correct that it's NOT worth doing if you have to earn your tier credits in Vegas, though. I also decided I'm not doing it at Rincon, because Aces and Faces (99.26%) is still substantially worse (when played over a lot of hands) than 9-6 JoB or 10-6 Deuces. In 2015, I am being very conservative and only playing the very best machines with $10/tier credit, which admittedly is getting harder to find.
You're confusing Seven Stars benefits with discretionary comps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
CET has created a schizophrenic system where, in some cases, Gold members get substantially better offers/comps than Seven Stars members, depending upon their recent play and prior comp redemption. Seven Stars is about guaranteed perks, where you always get certain benefits no matter how little you play after hitting Seven Stars.
The J-Lo show wasn't a 7 Star benefit. It was essentially a discretionary comp for those who were generating marketing theoretical that CET liked.
That's right, the New Year's Eve celebration and J-Lo were not 7 Stars benefits. And the point is a couple of low level Diamond players got what otherwise was a 7 Stars invitation event. So why bother getting 7 Stars???
If the guaranteed benefits are important to you, then you should get 7 Stars, especially if you are an inconsistent player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
If you are a regular player who gives them some decent coin-in on each trip, and/or if the guaranteed benefits don't do much for you, then you are not wise to play extra to make Seven Stars.
What benefits? An annual dinner for $500 -- and I have to travel to a casino to get it?
The annual gift? Which has an "eBay value" of maybe $60 ??
Limos? They won't take me to my doctor's appointment here in LA. They'll pick me up at the airport when I go to the CASINO.
Guaranteed rooms at a Casino Hotel? What if I want to go to wine country in Napa?
Seven Stars is for gambling addicts.
Even the cruises are only on ships with casinos.
The vast majority of NCL cruises have casinos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I didn't say that the hotels across the country emcompass everywhere you want to go, but there are enough of them to where you can build some interesting trips around them.
The guaranteed rooms are the huge benefit, because you can stay a high number of days without having to worry about playing or having a host hold your theoretical over your head. You also can get rooms during high profile dates like New Years.
Yes, Seven Stars is for gambling addicts, but so are all loyalty programs. But you can get good value out of it if you're careful.
As has been discussed before, it does suffer from the law of diminishing returns once you hit 150,000 tiers.
Does Harrah's SoCal not have those 99.67% Double Super Times Pay BP games?
Seven Stars players in the East Coast market have basically been getting paid to earn it for the past 5 years now. Plus, the Diamond lounges in AC are great, and the Seven Stars lounges are fantastic.
I guess we are spoiled in many ways compared to Nevada and California.
Please let me know where these are ASAP, because I would much rather go to Rincon than Tahoe. Drive is MUCH less. I'm dreading that 500 mile trek next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by nerakil
http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/harrahs-rincon
The above site says that nothing better than 99.40% Ace$ exists, and to be honest, that game is more like 99.17% because the chance of hitting ACE$ is tiny and unlikely to hit in the number of hands I will run.
Please describe the 99.67% Double Super Times Pay game. What limits? What is the paytable? I will call Rincon and verify they have it once you do.
So I found this:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-...per-times-pay/
But 8-5 BP on Super Times pay would be 99.44%.
Where are you getting 99.67%?
And where are these machines, and what limits are they?
The machine is 10 play max 50-cents per coin. There are two of them.
Okay, that would be a good limit for me, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
But what is the paytable? Any idea?
Also, where are they located?
High limit room. On the end. As you walk from the dive tower elevators on the way to the main casino. You will see them on the left just under the television.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Have you seen them there in 2015? I ask this because they fucked around with the VP in New Orleans starting January 1, but fortunately I was able to still find some full pay VP of a different type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry W.
Do you know the paytable?
Bonus is 8/5 traditional. They've been moved several times and I don't know where they are. A few months ago someone was dealt a royal on ten play with double tens at 50-cents. $400000.
Thanks for the answer, but I want to make sure we're on the same page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Are you saying the Super Times Pay 10-hand 50 cent machine is 8-5 Bonus Poker?
So basically I would be playing 10 lines at $2.50 each at max play, the paytable would be standard 8-5 BP, and I would be looking at (99.17% * 1.00278) = 99.44% average payout?
I'm still not sure I love this, as there's way more variance here than running 9-6 JoB at Tahoe, and still a worse return if it's 99.44 versus 99.54.
There is a premium. I think it's 7 coins per line.
Ah, I see. It's Double Super Times Pay, not Super Times Pay.
http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-...per-times-pay/
That makes sense now.
So that would be 99.67%.
Wonder if that's still there.
I'm pretty sure it's there but they keep moving the two machines. Originally by the poker room then the video poker area. Now high limits? I don't play it so I really haven't kept track.
Okay, so I just called Rincon and talked to a nice slot manager. Wasn't easy getting a hold of her, but once I did, she went and looked it all up for me.
Here's what was found:
Super Times Pay (6 coins per line)
4 machines
3/5/10 play for 25c and 50c
3/5 play for $1
JoB is standard 8-5
Bonus Poker is standard 6-5 (yuck)
DDB Poker is standard 8-5 (again, yuck)
Deuces Wild is 25-16-13-4-3-2-2-1 (once again, yuck)
So basically Super sucks, as the base paytables are lousy, and the 1.00278 multiplier of EV still leaves them in lousy territory.
BUT
Double Super Times Pay (7 coins) has one better paytable
There are 2 of these machines
25c/50c 3/5/10 play
JoB is 8-5 standard
BP is 8-5 standard (lol at anyone who plays JoB on this machine, for this reason)
DDB is the same crap 8-5 game as on Super
Deuces is 20-12-10-4-4-3-2-1 which again sucks
So looks like nerakil was right all along.
Since Double Super Times Pay has standard 8-5 BP (99.17%), the multiplier of 1.00509 makes it into a 99.67% game. Every other game sucks. Bonus Poker on Double Super Times Pay is literally the only playable one.
And they are giving 1 tier per $10 wagered.
I think I will give it a try and cancel my Tahoe trip.