Harrahs Cherokee cheating

copied this from another site I posted at


I have discovered similar things like this in two casinos. It was always weekends and main floor games. The handshuffled games at 100 min was where I always grinded out the hours after losing massive on the main floor in both senarios. Would see counts of plus 50 running count way more then normal of -50. Once of these casinos was harrahs Cherokee in North Carolina, I recently played there for a week. Lost about 80k on the main floor at 2x800 top bets which is a huge swing and then won back 81k in high limit room handshuffled. I played 100 hours in a week there. I played unrated the whole time and the last 2 days they id checked me in high limit when I showed up. I figured I was done anyway and I had 80k of there chips I needed to cash out anyway. They took my name, called on the phone and said, yeah that's him and let me play for 2 more days. I have already been backed off this store once is 2014 or somewhere around there. on the 7th day of play security comes and tells me im done. Im like ok cool I need to cash these chips. Now I did not ever use a tool there and only played unrated. I give the casino my chips and the lady cashier goes
"your 86 from all ceasars properties" I was like I certainly am not and no one has told me that ever, which is correct. She says im going to need to confiscated those chips and give u a receipt till you get this figured all out. I grab her hand and forcifly pull her forward and say look bitch, you going to need to kill me before you rob me for 80k. I grab the chips back and call the police. The police say they cant help me only tribal police. Tribal police show up and say your 86 and if u don't leave this second your going to be arrested. I am still out the 80k. I never thought casino cheating is real but if there willing to make up stories just to steal chips of an unrated card counter why wouldn't they cheat. The look in the eyes of them was of pure evil and murder like they wanted to kill someone. I will never put it past certain casinos to cheat. I also don't know many counters who ever had done well there. There is something fucked up about there mainfloor and 50 dollar pit games on the weekeends

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Thank you for sharing this smallcap. I did read it at BJinfo and I encourage experienced players to share their experiences along these lines. We are not talking about a little bit of selective memory of bad beats or unusual grouping. We are talking about flat out very abnormal clumping. Not clumping that occurs naturally, but unnatural clumping. It is occurring more and more frequently at unregulated or lesser regulated jurisdictions and I think players, AP and others should be warned.

I also encourage experienced knowledgeable players to share their experiences and concerns. In the past there was a stigma around suggesting cheating. But it is real and needs to be exposed. That is the only way to stop it.

I played blackjack there on the main floor a bit and didn't notice anything "off" as far as I could tell. This was also in like 2014 though.

You still got them chips scg?

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Originally Posted by RS__

I played blackjack there on the main floor a bit and didn't notice anything "off" as far as I could tell. This was also in like 2014 though.

You still got them chips scg?

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yes I do

As kewlJ can tell you, I know absolutely nothing about blackjack, but I want to mention this to add to the context. I went to a Billy Idol concert there a few years back, and what I noticed was that, although the video poker machines looked relatively new, and despite the fact that the place was spotlessly clean and well maintained, there were sticky buttons on a number of the vp machines. I just played minimally and decided to not play there any more, but I thought it was curious.

Well, last year, Jean Scott did a column for the LVAdvisor. She had visited Cherokee and what do you know, she mentions buttons sticking on a number of video poker machines. Now those of you who read Jean Scott's column know that usually she's a video poker cheerleader, and she tries to be positive about most casinos she visits. But she made the curious comment in that column that they decided that they wouldn't be returning to Cherokee. She added zero details, but I think that was a read-between-the-lines moment.

Maybe these details are unrelated to the blackjack experiences. I mention them just to provide some additional context. I did post about them when they happened, but I'm not going to dig up the specific date. The posts are here somewhere. Cherokee is a good-looking place (I live a couple of hours away), but I go there only for the concerts.

I would like to emphasize that depending on how a clump of cards is comprised would not require a large number of cards to significantly alter house edges. During the second month of business and beyond at the MGM Grand in Springfield Mass I started seeing odd things happening much to frequently. On ASM's games many clumps of ten value cards anywhere from ten to fourteen cards following each other, were happening too frequently. On other shoes me splitting aces four times way, way to often, and seeing other players doing the same thing and I might add filling those aces rarely with ten value cards regardless of count. I also would like to point out I saw a few ploppies who were deliberately splitting and re splitting tens and win most of their hands, because I think they recognized the clumps that were taking place.

Two years ago I would not believe something like cheating could possibly occur in large casino chains. However with all the new technology advancements who knows what is possible. The industry itself would likely say as long as there is a cut taking place by a patron nothing is wrong.

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Originally Posted by redietz

As kewlJ can tell you, I know absolutely nothing about blackjack, but I want to mention this to add to the context. I went to a Billy Idol concert there a few years back, and what I noticed was that, although the video poker machines looked relatively new, and despite the fact that the place was spotlessly clean and well maintained, there were sticky buttons on a number of the vp machines. I just played minimally and decided to not play there any more, but I thought it was curious.

Well, last year, Jean Scott did a column for the LVAdvisor. She had visited Cherokee and what do you know, she mentions buttons sticking on a number of video poker machines. Now those of you who read Jean Scott's column know that usually she's a video poker cheerleader, and she tries to be positive about most casinos she visits. But she made the curious comment in that column that they decided that they wouldn't be returning to Cherokee. She added zero details, but I think that was a read-between-the-lines moment.

Maybe these details are unrelated to the blackjack experiences. I mention them just to provide some additional context. I did post about them when they happened, but I'm not going to dig up the specific date. The posts are here somewhere. Cherokee is a good-looking place (I live a couple of hours away), but I go there only for the concerts.

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About sticky buttons on vp machines. This is one of my pet peeves. I see it everywhere. The bartops are most notorious for it. People spill their drinks. A lot of drinks have sugar in them. It gets on the buttons and sticks them up. It drips down the sides of buttons into the machines and gums up the wiring.

Many times I have requested the bartender give me a bar towel soaked in club soda to clean the buttons up. Sometimes you have to drip the club soda onto the button and let it run down the sides of the button. But sometimes it's an exercise in futility.

It amazes me that slot operations seems to not be aware of the problem and don't do any regular maintenance on the bartops. Billion dollar casinos can have bartops where only a fraction of them are in good working order.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

About sticky buttons on vp machines. This is one of my pet peeves. I see it everywhere. The bartops are most notorious for it. People spill their drinks. A lot of drinks have sugar in them. It gets on the buttons and sticks them up. It drips down the sides of buttons into the machines and gums up the wiring.

Many times I have requested the bartender give me a bar towel soaked in club soda to clean the buttons up. Sometimes you have to drip the club soda onto the button and let it run down the sides of the button. But sometimes it's an exercise in futility.

It amazes me that slot operations seems to not be aware of the problem and don't do any regular maintenance on the bartops. Billion dollar casinos can have bartops where only a fraction of them are in good working order.

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Probably one of my worst experiences playing something......I had to do coin in at a specific bar. It took 2 hours almost exactly to play if no jackpots are hit. Had to finish it by midnight. I got to the bar at 8pm so I had plenty of time to play, especially if I hit several jackpots. Well, there was only ONE machine open out of probably 20+. Well, that machine....the buttons were all totally fucked up. The deal/draw button didn't work, and #3 of the "hold" buttons didn't work, either. So I had to tap the screen to deal/draw, as well as if I wanted to hold the third card. Not only that, but the calibration was off a bit....thankfully it wasn't totally off like some are. I ended up hitting a jackpot, to make it even worse. I got right down to the wire...I think I finished with like 15 minutes to spare. It was pure misery. :( What made it 10x worse is there was some shitty "live entertainment" that was way too loud and everyone seemed to enjoy that for some dumbass reason. I never made that mistake again.

You used to see cleaning women walking around making sure the slots weren't full of ashes and partially empty cups or glasses and making sure that they were clean and not getting sticky like you describe. I assume the typical casino cutbacks eliminated these women. But whenever I encounter a problem with buttons , the bill feeder, or just filth, I call for the slot attendant and make them clean it and fix it. Why suffer through 4 hours of that.