Harrah's Rincon adds the Fire Bet for card craps.

I thought this would happen: the Fire Bet is now being offered at Harrah's Rincon in San Diego County for the card craps game. And hats off to Shuffle Master (now SHFL entertainment) for expanding the Fire Bet.

SHFL (that's also the stock symbol) bought the Fire Bet company several months ago and when they did I expected that SHFL would expand the marketing of the Fire Bet, and what better company is there for doing that than SHFL?

It makes perfect sense that the Fire Bet is offered at card craps, since the game is played just like dice craps except that cards are used to simulate the roll of two dice.

In California it is unlawful to use dice in casino gambling -- but cards with the values shown on dice are okay.

The signs just went up and I saw one craps table layout with the places for the Fire Bets for the players at the table.

I expect it to catch on and become as popular (or unpopular) as it is in Vegas where it has been available for several years.

http://www.alanbestbuys.com/sitebuil...g.w300h225.jpg

You can read more about the Fire Bet and card craps here: http://www.alanbestbuys.com/id139.html

That's pretty exciting. The FireBet is an awesome bet to see hit. I'll be in Vegas next weekend to cash in my GGWU points; I'll definitely be playing craps.

I had to go to Rincon last night to check out the fire bet. The payoffs are the same as at the Caesars properties in Vegas:

4 different numbers pays 25 to 1
5 different numbers pays 250 to 1
All 6 passes pays 1000

But there is one big difference at Rincon: the maximum Fire Bet is $5. In Vegas, the maximum is $10.

When I stopped at the table (one was open at about 2-am Saturday) there were four players and three had a fire bet. In Vegas about half of the players on average have a fire bet.

Now I know the odds are technically the same...but I rarely see multiple points made at Rincon. I have been on the table for hot rolls at Rincon...but the points were repeating. Whoever wins a 6 point FireBet Rincon is damn lucky!

Now Alan, I know the odds are the same but I can't help but feel that real dice are more likely to hit the FireBet than the cards.....what do you guys think?

Craps is an unbeatable game by definition as a random game. The only way to beat it is by luck or by somehow influencing the dice.

Let's discuss luck first with dice craps vs card craps: there is no difference. Years ago when Morongo first added card craps I was at a table that went through the entire shoe without a 7-out. My initial $32 bet across grew to more than $3300 in my pocket, plus another $200 or so still on the table. Of course there was no fire bet back then but probably every point was made at least twice. I've been at dice craps table once when a random shooter hit all six passes, and twice I've thrown five different passes -- once at Rio and once at Caesars. My Caesars photo:

http://alanbestbuys.com/sitebuilderc...20804-1854.jpg

If there is a possibility for more fire bet payoffs, I would think it would come at a "dice craps" game where a player had some ability to influence the dice. To be honest, I can't say ANYONE including me really has any ability to influence the dice. All I know is this: at dice craps there is the possibility and at card craps there isn't the possibility to introduce any skill in the game.

One casino here in Illinois has been paying $4,000 to any shooter that hits all 6 points without having to make any fire bet. In fact, they don't have a fire bet. It's just s freebie for any shooter who can do it.

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Originally Posted by regnis

One casino here in Illinois has been paying $4,000 to any shooter that hits all 6 points without having to make any fire bet. In fact, they don't have a fire bet. It's just s freebie for any shooter who can do it.

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Years before the Fire Bet came into being Sams Town in Vegas had a variety of exotic bets including "tall and small" and "all" which paid various bonuses for rolling various numbers --no passes needed. I liked the "all" bet -- you just save the 7-out for last. The boxman would sit there with markers and kept track of every number rolled.

I dont know if they are still there. Anybody??

MGM has the All Tall Small bet. I actually hit that bet in Laughlin last weekend at the Golden Nugget. The Orleans has the Repeater Bet and Place the Hardway, pretty fun bets. I think some station properties carry The FireBet, I know Palace Station carried it and so does the Hard Rock.

I hope Harrahs influences other casinos to change their craps game and add exotic bets because Harrahs has the best game with the most action. I'm talking about Harrahs Rincon btw

In terms of odds, Agua Caliente has buy bets on four and ten starting at 10 with vig paid after win. They also allow you to buy the five and nine. Field pays double and triple.

I think Sycuan allows 5x odds which may be the highest.

To be honest about it, JamieV, I don't think adding the "exotic bets" will make me play "card craps" at California casinos. When I want to play craps I'll go to Vegas... or better yet... to my favorite $3 table at Jean, NV at the Gold Strike. I think I mentioned this before: I asked the on-duty casino manager at Gold Strike if they would be adding the Fire Bet now that it is owned and marketed by Shufflemaster, and he said "no" because the casino could not afford if just one person hit all six numbers.

I agree Alan, I'm not a big fan of the craps scene in California. I may check out the FireBet at Rincon sometime next year but I'd really like to start to getting into VP, just don't know where to start.

Start by buying WinPoker or the Wizard's VP game for your smart phone and train yourself on the strategery

And JamieV since you play here in So Cal, Pechanga and Pala both offer the basic 9/6 Jacks game at 25-cents. 9/6 Jacks is now extinct at Rincon.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

And JamieV since you play here in So Cal, Pechanga and Pala both offer the basic 9/6 Jacks game at 25-cents. 9/6 Jacks is now extinct at Rincon.

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Yep. There is a 9/6 game with a progressive at Pala!

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Originally Posted by bigfoot66

Yep. There is a 9/6 game with a progressive at Pala!

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By the way, Rincon did a good job chasing away its "$100 VP players." There were a couple of gentlemen who would sit at the 8/5 Bonus or 9/6 Jacks $100 machines with bricks of $100 bills. Even since Rincon reduced the paytable on Jacks to 8/5 and on the 8/5 Bonus game made all the quads have the same payoff (no more premium for aces, 2s, 3s, 4s) they left. I understand they both now play at Pala.

However, what they missed is that on the $100 games there is the traditional 8/5 Aces and Faces which actually has a slightly higher return than traditional 8/5 Bonus. So if someone at Rincon with a little "marketing savvy" should get on the phone and try to get those guys back.

In the meantime, I noticed that in the high limit room, the traditional 8/5 Bonus game even at the $5 level no longer has the premiums for quad aces, 2s, 3s and 4s leaving only 8/5 Aces and Faces with the traditional full pay paytable.