Is Card Craps any different from Vegas-style Dice Craps?

I have to admit, I've been playing "card craps" at Harrah's Rincon in San Diego and the game is fun to play. And sometimes the table gets "hot" and we win some money.

The casino features the Firebet and once all six points were established and made by one "shooter" and the $5 Firebet paid $5,000. I've been at the table three times when 5 of 6 points were made by the shooter (I was one of the shooters) which paid $1,250. And last night I was there and in my turn I made four different points which paid $125.

The Rincon "card craps" game is a bit different from other casinos in that a "shooter" throws a blue die and a red die and the number on each die indicates which of six playing cards is chosen to determine the actual "number." The six cards are numbered 1 through 6.

In other casinos shooters might not throw dice and a dealer would turn over two cards which simulate a roll of the dice. Different casinos seem have different ways to play the game. But what makes all of the "card craps" games different from a Vegas-style dice game is that the shooter does not control the outcome. In all cases the casino has some or all of the control on the outcome.

In a casino such as Pechanga where a dealer chooses randomly shuffled cards that simulate the roll, the casino has all of the control.

At Rincon while a player throws the dice, the dice only indicate which cards are turned over and those cards are shuffled by an automatic shuffling machine.

So why play it?

In the Vegas-style craps game, a shooter has the possibility of influencing the dice and the results. While it is questionable if any "shooter" really can influence the dice the possibility at least is there. Some shooters imagine that they can influence the dice based on their grips and throws.

In the California card craps games -- no matter what version and at what casino -- it is impossible for the shooter to have any real or even imagined influence at all.

So if you think that no one can ever influence dice in the traditional game of craps, then playing a California card craps game is the same thing -- provided the pays are the same on the various bets. (Note: some of the California pays on certain bets are not the same as in some Vegas casinos.) But if you think there is a glimmer of hope that a player might be able to have some or any influence on dice, then the California card craps games are nothing more than using an automatic shuffler to choose two cards (even if you do get to throw dice to choose the cards).

I am still hoping that the Constitution in California will be amended so that Vegas style craps can be played here. If you can throw two dice to choose two cards, what's the difference if you just eliminate the cards?

Bumping thread ~ a LOT of difference:

First - to assure live dice are random in directly determining the outcome of each roll requires the house to scrutinize the dice for cheats sneaking loaded or shaved or burned or chipped or face-altered dice into the game for their (or an accomplice's) turn. This requires a degree of training or experience the casinos may not wish to bother with - even as the trouble and expense might pay for itself many times over through more and higher-stakes action from any players appreciating the use of dice without a randomizing flip of cards insulating the TOSS outcomes from the GAME'S results.

Dice in Vegas-style craps are routinely checked visually by the box for alterations and imperfections and for "balance" by manually spinning them on their diagonal axes between thumb and forefinger - and with mechanical spin devices as well.

Additionally even overly worn dice need to be removed from tables to assure truly random outcomes lest the carefully observing player detect some outcome bias that might provide a player with an edge if properly wagered accordingly.

For the advantage player live dice provide opportunities that Californians should welcome - even as casinos may not be eager to be subjected to tolerating that change in the game because of the increased vigilance that would be necessary to assure a consistently fair and secure game.