California Craps at Harrahs vs Pala or Pechanga, and your betting strategies (long)

Pre-determined or truely random?

Sorry, this has turned into a long blog.

By way of introduction, California allows only "card" games, so dice alone cannot determine the outcome of a craps decision.

At Harrahs, two sets of cards numbered 1 through 6 are shuffled in an auto shuffler. A red set and a green set is laid out, one card on each number 1 through 6. The cards are not matching, that is card 1 is not on position 1. They are randomly ordered by the shuffler. A green die and a red die determines which card on the corresponding position is turned over. The sum of the two cards determine the number "thrown".

At Pala the 36 combinations of paired dice are printed on different cards. The shuffler spits out two cards and a red and blue die are thrown. The die with the highest number shown determines which card is turned over. The picture of two dies determines the number "thrown".

At Pechanga several decks of cards numbered 1 through 6 are shuffled together and two cards are pulled out of the shuffler which determines the number "thrown".

At Pala and Pechanga, it seems the outcome is pre-determined by the cards dealt. Only at Harrahs is the outcome truly random. Anyone have an opinion on this?

I would be interested to hear from other craps players on their betting strategies, and how their betting patterns change on a hot roll. You can keep pressing on each roll, but eventually you'll seven out.

What about changing betting on cold roll? I walk away from a cold table, but this means I can't play my favorite game. I don't bet the dark side.

lpang thanks for joining and thanks for the post. I am very interested in this subject and I hope it attracts more players who are interested in craps and card craps.

First thanks for summing up the various systems used. Do you know what is currently used at Morongo? I ask about Morongo because the first system used there involved two shoes, and various decks with cards number 1 thru 6 in the shoes, shuffled and then drawn to determine the simulated roll.

Initially the Morongo system was random. But once when I played there, there was no 7-out and the play continued to the end of the shoes. And near the end it was obvious that all of the small cards were "gone" and only the big numbers 9, 10, 11 and 12 were hitting. At that point it wasn't very random.

Now back to your post:

I think all of the systems used at Rincon, Pala and Pechanga are random -- and what prevents a repeat of what happened at Morongo is the continuous shuffle of the cards. Throwing dice is for "show" and really doesn't mean a thing. At any of the three casinos, the dealers could choose the card or cards for a completely random "roll of the dice."

But I think the real reason why Rincon has the throw of two dice might be that they hope for and are preparing for the day when dice craps will be legal in the state.

All of the casinos, by the way, play the game on dice craps tables, similar to what is used in any Vegas casino.

Now, when it comes to strategies -- I am afraid that all you can do is play "by the math" which means to make the bets with the lowest house edge, and to make the bets that are more likely to win. This would include pass or dont pass with odds, and placing 6 and 8 and laying (don't betting) 4 and 10.

I also would not bet any of these card craps games with big money, because at least with dice craps you have a chance to influence the outcome of the roll. At all of the California casinos there is no player influence -- it's all up to the machine.

The only reason to set dice at Rincon and to have a controlled throw at Rincon is because you are practicing for a trip to Vegas.