I think playing without a Player's Card is stupid.

In my opinion it is always good to have The Player's Club Cards. People have said that they don't play with Player's Cards because they want to play unrated. I don't agree with that thinking because why wouldn't you want to get comped for your time and money? If you lose and you play with no PC, you just lose. Now if you play with the PC and you lose, you get points, Tier Upgrades, discounted and free food, free and discounted hotel room, shows, spa perks, etc! Would you rather just lose or lose and get lots of perks? I know which one I want and it's the latter. ;)

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Originally Posted by Tasha

In my opinion it is always good to have The Player's Club Cards. People have said that they don't play with Player's Cards because they want to play unrated. I don't agree with that thinking because why wouldn't you want to get comped for your time and money? If you lose and you play with no PC, you just lose. Now if you play with the PC and you lose, you get points, Tier Upgrades, discounted and free food, free and discounted hotel room, shows, spa perks, etc! Would you rather just lose or lose and get lots of perks? I know which one I want and it's the latter. ;)

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There are situations where an advantage player might not want to be rated. I guess there are some people that don't want anybody knowing their business, especially the casino.
There's some people with theories where are they believe the casino card will keep track if someone's winning too much and communicate with the slot machines and cause them to go on a losing streak. For the most part it's all just lack of understanding how things work.

Two years ago I lost my Diamond status because of decrease of play. I did not change my rate of play that much-only had a slight increase in winnings. After 9 months into the year, I was suddenly surprised. I lost my card and when I went for reprint, they told me I had recently been restored to Diamond. I no longer had to earn tier points on promo days and have a home full of cookware, crockpots, blenders,clothing,etc. Some made nice Christmas gifts. They still forfeit the buffet offers I once had, but I could always cash in my credits for that.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Two years ago I lost my Diamond status because of decrease of play. I did not change my rate of play that much-only had a slight increase in winnings. After 9 months into the year, I was suddenly surprised. I lost my card and when I went for reprint, they told me I had recently been restored to Diamond. I no longer had to earn tier points on promo days and have a home full of cookware, crockpots, blenders,clothing,etc. Some made nice Christmas gifts. They still forfeit the buffet offers I once had, but I could always cash in my credits for that.

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Not every Advantage Player such as yourself can hide all their skills like you do. You are one in a million who has slipped through the cracks and can play forever. Maybe you should give one of those crockpots to Rob Singer for Christmas.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

There are situations where an advantage player might not want to be rated.

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https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/ques...acking-system/

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

There are situations where an advantage player might not want to be rated.

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https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/ques...acking-system/

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Dancer is quite wrong here. "Advantage Player Tracking" is just the name of the product used to tally your points and such. It's on many newer model slot and VP machines. It has ZERO to do with advantage players.

If you want to play unrated because of potential negative attention from Casinos after winning too much, I've got a radical idea. Lose more than you win with the Player's Card inside and play without the card when you are winning. It's the perfect balance as you get perks after losing and get more money when you are winning and don't have the Casino asking you uncomfortable questions..It's a win win situation. :D

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Originally Posted by Tasha

If you want to play unrated because of potential negative attention from Casinos after winning too much, I've got a radical idea. Lose more than you win with the Player's Card inside and play without the card when you are winning. It's the perfect balance as you get perks after losing and get more money when you are winning and don't have the Casino asking you uncomfortable questions..It's a win win situation. :D

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But if you are knowing you are going to lose and can play on the card, why place that bet/wager to begin with? Advantage Players will never place a bet if they know it is negative. You're not typically going to get more in comps than what you lose. The casino has that much figured out.

I spent some time in a regional casino. I used my card and got the 3rd tier. (4th is highest, 5th requires invite) I realized it'd actually be fairly easy to get the highest rank you need uninvited and only give up $400 in EV. I am getting an offer for a free room and that's like my biggest expense anyway. One free room doesn't pay for the effort/time it takes to travel. Anyway, I am rambling. I pretty much expected my gambling to be negative but I found some stuff there that kept my losses down. I will see if they ever offer me more than 1 night. It seems like the offers are getting better. Wagered $200 video bj hands for some time and ran good and played some $5 VP. I'm hoping they'll send me offers for more than 1 night at a time. Realistically that's the most I'm expecting to get. I'm also going to turn my points into free play next time. No point in "saving" them and having them disappear for some reason.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by Tasha

If you want to play unrated because of potential negative attention from Casinos after winning too much, I've got a radical idea. Lose more than you win with the Player's Card inside and play without the card when you are winning. It's the perfect balance as you get perks after losing and get more money when you are winning and don't have the Casino asking you uncomfortable questions..It's a win win situation. :D

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But if you are knowing you are going to lose and can play on the card, why place that bet/wager to begin with? Advantage Players will never place a bet if they know it is negative. You're not typically going to get more in comps than what you lose. The casino has that much figured out.

I spent some time in a regional casino. I used my card and got the 3rd tier. (4th is highest, 5th requires invite) I realized it'd actually be fairly easy to get the highest rank you need uninvited and only give up $400 in EV. I am getting an offer for a free room and that's like my biggest expense anyway. One free room doesn't pay for the effort/time it takes to travel. Anyway, I am rambling. I pretty much expected my gambling to be negative but I found some stuff there that kept my losses down. I will see if they ever offer me more than 1 night. It seems like the offers are getting better. Wagered $200 video bj hands for some time and ran good and played some $5 VP. I'm hoping they'll send me offers for more than 1 night at a time. Realistically that's the most I'm going to get. I'm also going to turn my points into free play next time. No point in "saving" them and having them disappear for some reason.

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Lots of people play money they know they are going to lose for the Comps. Remember that song by Fred Durst? "I did it all for the Nookie?" Replace the word "Nookie," with "Comps," and there you go. ;) A guy even said something like, "I hope I lose so that I'll get showered with Comps." LOL. :D

On a side note, in my scenario, you broke even and then got showered with Comps. Let's say you put $500 in machines.... You play up and down with the PC in for like 7 hours and you end up at $10. You take the Player's Club card out and do a wild Hail Mary $10 Bet that nets you $500. You run for the hills with your $500 back. You get crazy good comps for that first $500 and you still have your $500. You didn't lose money but you got showered with crazy good Comps. ;)

What the fuck Tasha? I’m seriously starting to regret giving you a tentative hi five for the Nathan’s corner thread for this and for bumping the crazy casino stories thread.
Dan is going to ban your ass Tasha. You’re going to make another dumbass sock because you can’t help it or make a stupid bet and get banned, you know it’s gonna happen. It’s the real truth I promise.

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Originally Posted by Tasha

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by Tasha

If you want to play unrated because of potential negative attention from Casinos after winning too much, I've got a radical idea. Lose more than you win with the Player's Card inside and play without the card when you are winning. It's the perfect balance as you get perks after losing and get more money when you are winning and don't have the Casino asking you uncomfortable questions..It's a win win situation. :D

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But if you are knowing you are going to lose and can play on the card, why place that bet/wager to begin with? Advantage Players will never place a bet if they know it is negative. You're not typically going to get more in comps than what you lose. The casino has that much figured out.

I spent some time in a regional casino. I used my card and got the 3rd tier. (4th is highest, 5th requires invite) I realized it'd actually be fairly easy to get the highest rank you need uninvited and only give up $400 in EV. I am getting an offer for a free room and that's like my biggest expense anyway. One free room doesn't pay for the effort/time it takes to travel. Anyway, I am rambling. I pretty much expected my gambling to be negative but I found some stuff there that kept my losses down. I will see if they ever offer me more than 1 night. It seems like the offers are getting better. Wagered $200 video bj hands for some time and ran good and played some $5 VP. I'm hoping they'll send me offers for more than 1 night at a time. Realistically that's the most I'm going to get. I'm also going to turn my points into free play next time. No point in "saving" them and having them disappear for some reason.

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Lots of people play money they know they are going to lose for the Comps. Remember that song by Fred Durst? "I did it all for the Nookie?" Replace the word "Nookie," with "Comps," and there you go. ;) A guy even said something like, "I hope I lose so that I'll get showered with Comps." LOL. :D

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So yes if you are gambling at a casino and expect to lose and aren't trying to hide your play then you should play on a card. There are times when people have valid reasons for not playing on a card. (Sometimes I don't feel it is even worth my time or I don't want to lower my average bet size if I am just min betting at a table or something) I'm not an expert on any of this though but there are "reasons" to not use a card. Those are exceptions and the people in those situations will understand it.

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Originally Posted by mcap

What the fuck Tasha? I’m seriously starting to regret giving you a tentative hi five for the Nathan’s corner thread for this and for bumping the crazy casino stories thread.

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Tasha is the greatest thing this board has going.

Wise up and buckle up.

Maybe by default in the case of Tasha is the only thing this board has going other than Rob trolling kool jay.

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Originally Posted by mcap

What the fuck Tasha? I’m seriously starting to regret giving you a tentative hi five for the Nathan’s corner thread for this and for bumping the crazy casino stories thread.


Dan is going to ban your ass Tasha. You’re going to make another dumbass sock because you can’t help it or make a stupid bet and get banned, you know it’s gonna happen. It’s the real truth I promise.

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Well, this is actually a good idea thread and if you paid close attention, I stopped making those stupid Lottery pledges shortly after reality slapped me hard in the face when I gave away half my paycheck after the Lottery Number I pledged for didn't go through. I would be beyond stupid to have any more Socks after Dan specifically warned me more than once that any more Socks would ensure my permenant banning.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by Tasha

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

But if you are knowing you are going to lose and can play on the card, why place that bet/wager to begin with? Advantage Players will never place a bet if they know it is negative. You're not typically going to get more in comps than what you lose. The casino has that much figured out.

I spent some time in a regional casino. I used my card and got the 3rd tier. (4th is highest, 5th requires invite) I realized it'd actually be fairly easy to get the highest rank you need uninvited and only give up $400 in EV. I am getting an offer for a free room and that's like my biggest expense anyway. One free room doesn't pay for the effort/time it takes to travel. Anyway, I am rambling. I pretty much expected my gambling to be negative but I found some stuff there that kept my losses down. I will see if they ever offer me more than 1 night. It seems like the offers are getting better. Wagered $200 video bj hands for some time and ran good and played some $5 VP. I'm hoping they'll send me offers for more than 1 night at a time. Realistically that's the most I'm going to get. I'm also going to turn my points into free play next time. No point in "saving" them and having them disappear for some reason.

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Lots of people play money they know they are going to lose for the Comps. Remember that song by Fred Durst? "I did it all for the Nookie?" Replace the word "Nookie," with "Comps," and there you go. ;) A guy even said something like, "I hope I lose so that I'll get showered with Comps." LOL. :D

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So yes if you are gambling at a casino and expect to lose and aren't trying to hide your play then you should play on a card. There are times when people have valid reasons for not playing on a card. (Sometimes I don't feel it is even worth my time or I don't want to lower my average bet size if I am just min betting at a table or something) I'm not an expert on any of this though but there are "reasons" to not use a card. Those are exceptions and the people in those situations will understand it.

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Some people admit they don't play with a PC because they are on the self excluded list and still manage to sneak in so they play without being tracked.

Playing for comps is simply not a winning strategy in 2019 for advantage players Tasha. There was a time is could have been if done right. I'll get to the most unique example I know of in a minute.

For AP's time is money, and that goes for any kind of game you play. I am going to stick to blackjack for a minute because it is what I know and do. First of all the casino industry has a rating system as far as comps. Not all players are rated the same. I forget the exact terminology that was used when this was relayed to me by a pit friend, but for blackjack there were like 4 different level (maybe different at different locations). So when a player was rated he was rated as "bad player", "losing player", "basic strategy player" or "advantage player".

so 4 different players hand in there cards and play rated and play for an hour playing roughly the same stakes, they are going to earn different rates of comps and offers. For the advantage player comps and offers, will be minimum, may dry up completely. This is often one of the first counter-measures implemented against table game AP's.

For the other 3 ratings, all are playing a losing game, the basic strategy player only slightly losing and the other two, increasingly so. So someone rated as a "bad player" (or whatever corresponding term each casino may use), this would be a player standing on all his 13's, 14's 15's, even against 9's and 10's. Or maybe he hits his similar 13, 14, 14, 16 vs a dealer break card, or splitting his 7's vs the dealer 10 card. That type of thing. This player is going to get far more comps for the same level and time play as a basic strategy player, that is playing just a slightly losing game.

The rating game is for the casinos to identify the worst players and entice them back by giving them a small percentage of their expected loss back, knowing they will lose many times that.

For a while, a long while this seemed to be confined to table game players. The machine experts can correct that statement if they feel it is wrong, but it is my understanding that for a long time, machine players could play their winning game and pile on the comps on top with no consequences. That all seemed to change just a couple years ago, when casinos began extending their war on AP's to machine players. The first I really saw this in Vegas was Boyd, but it is everywhere now. The free ride for machine players is or has come to an end. And in a way they have in worse because they can't rat-hole chips to disguise win as table players can. Although there are a few tricks.

Now let's go back to blackjack. Before I moved to Vegas, there was a common trick employed by visiting blackjack AP's. You would have one location that you toned down your play, smaller, less aggressive spread ect and played rated, to earn hotel and food comps, for either the trip you were on or hotel comps for the next trip. The rest of the trip you would play aggressively, unrated, full spread, no holds barred. I too did this for a a few trips and than analyzed it. So lets say my regular EV is $100/hr (which it may have been back then). I would tone down my spread, maybe playing a game worth $50/hour for 3-4 hours earning a free hotel room. Now mind you weekday hotel rooms on the strip, not at the top places like Wynn (at the time), but Caesars properties like Harrah, planet Hollywood, ect started at $29 weekdays. Maybe $39 at MGM properties. Toning down the spread cost $200, for a free hotel room valued at less than 20% of that. Needless to say, I stopped toning down my spread and playing rated and earned my full EV and started paying for my own rooms. :rolleyes:

After I moved to Vegas and got into a limited amount of machine play, I had the best of both worlds, just like the machine players did for so long. I played blackjack unrated (except for one unique place), and played a small amount of machine play that would keep the mailers and offers flowing. But I never mixed the two, not even on the same visit. As a matter of fact it was even better than that because there was a different person playing my machine play. Today, I have all but given up machine play aspect of my AP. I play just a very small amount, just enough to eat for free daily and I since I am playing both parts I never play machines and rated at a property in my blackjack rotation that I play unrated.

I know....my usual long post with some personal experiences. The bottom line Tasha is do you really thing the casinos are giving comps and stuff just to be nice. It is about identifying losing players and giving then a tiny amount of losses to entice them back, while at the same time identifying winning players so they can stop giving them anything (first counter-measure) and eventually take further action to remove them.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

There are situations where an advantage player might not want to be rated.

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https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/ques...acking-system/

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Dancer is quite wrong here. "Advantage Player Tracking" is just the name of the product used to tally your points and such. It's on many newer model slot and VP machines. It has ZERO to do with advantage players.

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Thanks for the clarification JBJB.

Oh I am sorry, I forgot the very unique approach. Those that read me on other forums may have heard it. I am not going to mention his name because he is still occasionally active on the forums, even here briefly.

This was 10-20 years ago. Early 2000's before I even began playing Higher end player, betting thousands. He played blackjack using a very small spread, a spread that would not be considered a winning game. Took his bathroom breaks at just the right time to avoid the worst counts. This kind of player was tracked pretty closely they had him pegged as losing player, with the spread. So they heaped comps and gifts on him. For years! Things like high end gifts and jewelry, cruises, tickets to sporting events.

He sold everything on ebay, even the tickets to sporting events and cruises, which now you won't be able to do. His profit came from re-selling the gifts. His game was breakeven. He earned 6 figures for many years. Unique.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Oh I am sorry, I forgot the very unique approach. Those that read me on other forums may have heard it. I am not going to mention his name because he is still occasionally active on the forums, even here briefly.

This was 10-20 years ago. Early 2000's before I even began playing Higher end player, betting thousands. He played blackjack using a very small spread, a spread that would not be considered a winning game. Took his bathroom breaks at just the right time to avoid the worst counts. This kind of player was tracked pretty closely they had him pegged as losing player, with the spread. So they heaped comps and gifts on him. For years! Things like high end gifts and jewelry, cruises, tickets to sporting events.

He sold everything on ebay, even the tickets to sporting events and cruises, which now you won't be able to do. His profit came from re-selling the gifts. His game was breakeven. He earned 6 figures for many years. Unique.

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See what I mean? Playing with your card in when you are a loser gets you showered with Comps. :)

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Originally Posted by Tasha

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Oh I am sorry, I forgot the very unique approach. Those that read me on other forums may have heard it. I am not going to mention his name because he is still occasionally active on the forums, even here briefly.

This was 10-20 years ago. Early 2000's before I even began playing Higher end player, betting thousands. He played blackjack using a very small spread, a spread that would not be considered a winning game. Took his bathroom breaks at just the right time to avoid the worst counts. This kind of player was tracked pretty closely they had him pegged as losing player, with the spread. So they heaped comps and gifts on him. For years! Things like high end gifts and jewelry, cruises, tickets to sporting events.

He sold everything on ebay, even the tickets to sporting events and cruises, which now you won't be able to do. His profit came from re-selling the gifts. His game was breakeven. He earned 6 figures for many years. Unique.

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See what I mean? Playing with your card in when you are a loser gets you showered with Comps. :)

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Fine losing players SHOULD play rated and get everything they can. BUT, that is only the second best option to not playing (if you are a losing player) and anyone playing specifically to get comps is foolish. They are at least a decade to late to the game.

Happy Tasha.