Total Rewards Diamond/Seven Stars changes for 2018 -- goodbye free room benefit , goodbye Diamond Aspirations, goodbye 1.25:1 RC freeplay conversion

UPDATE 12/19/2017:

There are several degradations to the Total Rewards Diamond and Seven Stars program for 2018.

They are listed below:


Diamond

- No more Aspirations #1 at 40,000 tier credits, meaning you lose your 4-night stay at any Caesars property with $100 folio credit

- No more Aspirations #2 at 80,000 tier credits, meaning you lose your $750 airfare credit and 4-night stay at any Caesars property

- No more Aspirations #2 two-night suite stay at any Caesars property

- Redemption of RCs to freeplay changes from 1.75:1 to 2:1 ratio.

- Access to Diamond Lounges now requires 25,000 tier credits. If you have 15,000-24,999 tiers, you will need to pay 1000 RCs (worth $10) to get in.

Basically, low Diamonds (15,000 tiers) get treated the exact same now as high Diamonds (80,000+ tiers), aside from the Diamond Lounge thing.



Seven Stars

- No more complimentary room benefit!! This a huge degradation, as this was by far the best benefit of the Seven Stars program. Up until 2018, you were able to get a 4-night stay complimentary at any Caesars property, with no blackout dates. You could also do this as many times as you wanted, as long as 48 hours were between reservations. Now this is completely gone.

- Redemption of RCs to freeplay changes from 1.25:1 to 2:1 ratio.

- Two of the four Signature Events are now only available to players with 500,000 or more tier credits. Seven Stars members with fewer than 500,000 tier credits can only go to Atlantic City or Las Vegas for their Signature Event. (These are kinda lame anyway, but it's yet another degradation.)



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Below is the discussion leading up to the full discovery of the above, which was fully revealed on December 19th.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Well, this ain't good.

Hosts are apparently warning players that the Diamond Aspirations 2 Trip -- where players receive $750 in airfare and 4 complimentary nights at a Total Rewards property of their choice -- will be going away next year.

This year, Nevada properties were offering $750 in RCs in lieu of this trip if you didn't take it by November, provided you showed up at a Nevada Caesars property and paid your own way to get there.

Additionally, Total Rewards is apparently also going to eliminate the discounted freeplay redemption for RCs. Currently, Seven Stars can exchange 125 RCs for $1 in freeplay, while Diamond could exchange 175 RCs for $1 in freeplay. Platinum and Gold members had to spend 200 RCs to get $1 in freeplay -- basically a 2-to-1 ratio.

Well, apparently beginning February 1, everyone will have to pay 200 RCs to get $1 in freeplay, regardless of tier status.

These are not yet confirmed by Total Rewards, but that's what hosts are telling people.

Later in December, I might be able to get to look at a copy of the advance instructions given to TR employees, and might be able to confirm this.

These aren't huge losses to me personally. I like to hoard my RCs for food expenditures, and this year will be the first time I redeem the Aspiations 2 trip -- and only because I can exchange it for $750 in RCs.

I am a bit sad the Aspirations 2 trip is going away, because that will mean the $750 in RCs thing won't be offered to me again.

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This is disappointing but not surprising. I have taken the trip every year since it has been offered—usually to NOLA—and I consider the $750 airfare comp to be much more valuable than the equivalent in RCs.

With the constant tightening of the games, the continual degradation of the Total Rewards benefits, and the need to jump through a million hoops to get what you deserve from CET—this may well be my last year actively playing there.

Get what you deserve? Do we really deserve anything?

Yes I am disappointed when offers are removed or downgraded, but it's (usually) in the fine print that they can do it.

I'm also getting tired of Caesars. I won't play craps there anymore because their table conditions suck.

I'd rather play craps at Sam's Town, Red Rock and Bellagio.

Caesars is its own Brutus.

Hi Dan:

Thanks for the heads up. It confirmed my desire to convert my 128K in reward credits into free play this weekend when I am in Tahoe. I certainly won't wait until 2018.

Regards, FAB

Fab I'm afraid you're in for a shock. There are limits on the amount of RCs that can be converted every 24 hours. It's going to take you a long, long time... well at least a full weekend. I think the limit is $500 a day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Fab I'm afraid you're in for a shock. There are limits on the amount of RCs that can be converted every 24 hours. It's going to take you a long, long time... well at least a full weekend. I think the limit is $500 a day.

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Hi Alan:

Thanks for the heads up but I think 128,000 in Reward credit can be converted into $1024 in free play. So a Friday and a Saturday conversion, plus a meal should clear out those credits-- unless I missed a decimal point.

FAB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Get what you deserve? Do we really deserve anything?

Yes I am disappointed when offers are removed or downgraded, but it's (usually) in the fine print that they can do it.

I'm also getting tired of Caesars. I won't play craps there anymore because their table conditions suck.

I'd rather play craps at Sam's Town, Red Rock and Bellagio.

Caesars is its own Brutus.

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We actually do deserve something.

Caesars CAN change its terms at any time. There's no doubt about that.

But should they?

I think it's kinda crappy to encourage people to earn RCs and hoard them, and then degrade what can be done with them.

It's also odd because, as far as I know, Caesars is the only company which has a different redemption for their points at freeplay versus spending on property.

Even right now, a Seven Stars gets 0.8 cents per RC when buying freeplay, and 1 cent per RC spending it on property. Soon it will be 0.5 versus 1, which is a huge difference.

Other programs I've seen will allow you to convert points at the same rate when buying freeplay, and last I checked, Stations even lets you turn it in for cash!

Another rumor, though this one seems less certain:

There may be a change in Total Rewards in 2018, making the earning period 6 months instead of a year.

Presumably this will also change the period you have that status, so the days of having a status for 25 months after earning it would be over.

If this is really true, I'm guessing you will have it for the following full 6 month period, plus one more month, and that's it.

So if you earn it on March 5, you will have it until Jan 31. And if you earn it on September 8, you will have it until July 31. And if you earn it on June 29 (bad decision), you'll still only have it until Jan 31.

These are just guesses on my part.

Station Casions have a rolling 6-month program. You get your status for 6 months after you earn it, and then it resets. Hopefully Total Rewards doesn't go to that format, but I think they are too disorganized to pull such a thing off. (Their program is far more complex than Station's, so a rolling period would wreak havoc with Total Rewards).

But that would really suck if the 2-year thing is dead. If so, that might be the end of my putting out the time, effort, and expense of earning 7 Stars.

Dan, does this (above) mean that 7 Stars would have to requalify every six months? And if true, is the required tier points for six months half of what the annual total is now?

I'm in a lot of programs at various levels, and the ones that I am familiar with off the top of my head that give trips as part of the benefits for a higher tier still only give one a year even though to have that tier you need to qualify twice (Once Jan-Jun and again Jun-Dec). It's kept track of somewhere on the host level, at least at the one that I asked about (as the only trips I usually use are my CET ones).
All the twice a year ones I can think of are hard stop - you have to keep qualifying every six months or come Jul 1st or Jan 1st you are demoted. There's no extra month. The Jan 31st expiration for CET - i.e. an additional month - is in my experience unique to them.

As far as Seven Stars is concerned, I think this would be a bad move. Yes, there are people like Dan who make a concerted effort to earn it every two years to guarantee their free hotel rooms and then don't do much other play (or play that counts, like in Dan's situation with the WSOP). But I'm sure there are many people like me who do a couple of trips over the course of a year, play hard enough while they're there to re-earn Seven Stars each year, for whom it is worth it for the front of the line pass everywhere and the annual free airfare. Moving it to every 6 month qualification means that the the base of Seven Stars holders becomes more Vegas regulars or locals, who are going to come anyway (like people like Alan who can or could drive from CA regularly easily), or ploppies at the locals. All of whom are probably going to keep coming and playing anyway, and who are more regular drains on the perks provided to Seven Stars than the couple times a year people.

I wouldn't mind requalifying every six months if the tier requirements were halved. Getting 75,000 tier points every six months requires the same play as 150,000 points over a year.

I'm more concerned with tier point inflation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Another rumor, though this one seems less certain:

There may be a change in Total Rewards in 2018, making the earning period 6 months instead of a year.

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When do you think they would announce a major change like this? We are 2 weeks away from 2018.

Once again, I had to delete several trolling messages. Please do not troll threads like this or I will have to ban your account.

Anyway, responding to the two messages above:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

When do you think they would announce a major change like this? We are 2 weeks away from 2018.

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With Total Rewards, you never know. In recent years, we typically start the earning period (Jan 1) BEFORE learning of our benefits, which is ridiculous.

Also, this change is not confirmed. It's just a rumor going around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I wouldn't mind requalifying every six months if the tier requirements were halved. Getting 75,000 tier points every six months requires the same play as 150,000 points over a year.

I'm more concerned with tier point inflation.

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If this does occur, I'm guessing they are not going to halve anything.

They will probably rationalize that you can still get close to a full year's worth of benefits simply by earning the tiers early in the earning period (for example, if you earn them on Feb 3, your status is good until the following January 31.)

If they do make this change, I am assuming it's happening to combat those who earn their status in January, and then can sit with that status for another 2 years without further play.

But again, this has not been confirmed, and only rumored.

Well Dan was right about the Total Rewards dilution for free play conversion. I just got this email from CET, supposedly sent to Seven Stars. It is only supposed to be a summary but I see no Aspirations and no guaranteed hotel rooms for Seven Stars:

BTW, at this time the 2018 on line benefits hyperlink does not operate. Footnote 2 states that the $1 for every 200 Reward Credits is effective starting Feb 1, 2018.

FAB

Good catch, FAB.

The degradation of the hotel room benefit (if true) would be horrible, and worse than everything else combined,

That's really what primarily separates Seven Stars from other top-tier rewards programs at other casinos around the country. You get unlimited free hotel stays of up to 4 nights, separated by a minimum of 2 nights, without blackout periods.

If that goes away, Seven Stars will be worth fairly little.

However, upon thinking about it, it makes sense that they are killing that benefit. Perhaps they finally realize that the "value" Seven Stars players get comped rooms without their play justifying it, while typical Seven Stars would get the comped nights anyway.

This would really suck.

The fact that "No resort fees" is listed (in place of free rooms) is very ominous, as it seems like they're saying you get out of resort fees, but the room will still cost $.

Here is a 2018 benefit summary:

https://www.caesars.com/total-reward...156f70941d06c7

Notice it says "Free or Discounted Hotel Stay" for ALL tiers, Gold through Seven Stars. So that doesn't mean much.

If you check out the corresponding 2017 chart, it very clearly says "Complimentary Room": https://www.caesars.com/total-rewards/benefits-overview

Uh oh!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Here is a 2018 benefit summary:

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Is this a bait and switch scenario?

If a player earned status in 2017, with the expectation that the listed 2017 benefits would carry through his status period, does this new summary mean that certain benefits will be stripped in 2018?

For instance, if a player were to play enough during any given trip in 2017 to earn 7*, in expectation of guaranteed comped rooms in 2018, does this mean that benefit will not be available in 2018?

Yes, it's a bait and switch for sure (at least with the major items), but there's nothing we can do.

They could yank the entire program away and we would have no recourse, since these are considered "promotional".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Yes, it's a bait and switch for sure (at least with the major items), but there's nothing we can do.

They could yank the entire program away and we would have no recourse, since these are considered "promotional".

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That's brutal. But as you pointed out earlier typical 7* players get all comped rooms anyway.

I understand that as a "value" 7* player you've been gaming the system, but when you check your TR rate calendar are the rooms comped for all properties & dates ?

Bait and switch? Not really.

A kick in the ass? Yes.

But what really bothers me is that I was told comps would be looser and promos would be better after Caesars emerged from bankruptcy. That's not happening.

My TR rate calendar always shows a rate. I have to call the 800 number to get them to book a comp room, as they use a Seven Stars offer code to book it.

I can try to book future rooms before this change takes place (if it does), but sometimes they will refuse to book rooms after February 1 (under this code) because they want to see your status at that point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Bait and switch? Not really.

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The players were baited into playing for status in 2017, in consideration of the posted benefits and understanding that the status would last through 2018.

Then with 2 weeks left in 2017 they announced that the benefits would change on Jan 1.

Isn't that bait and switch?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

My TR rate calendar always shows a rate.

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I recall that you played heavily to reach 7* in a single trip.

I would expect that kind of play to generate significant offers, including comped rooms on your TR rate calendar.

Did that ever happen, even if just for a short period of time?

I am so overcomped that it never happens for me.

I did get some offers for Tahoe, but they weren't that exciting. Kinda like $250 in promo chips stuff. Not worth the long trip unless I want to go anyway.

My wife has about 35,000 in Reward Credits which can be used for $350 in hotel related charges or $200 in free play at her Diamond rate. I expect to have her "gift" me the max of 10,000 in Reward credits so I can convert to Free play this year at the Seven Stars $1 to 1.25 ratio for 2017.

FAB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I am so overcomped that it never happens for me.

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Hi Dan:

It is possible that you can still get "complimentary rooms" for 2018 but the outlook looks grim given the circumstantial evidence. I wonder if CET got wind of your pattern and adjusted benefits accordingly.

FAB

Unbelievable.....a friend of mine just got an email from Harrahs New Orleans saying something like....

...You still have time. Come stay with us and earn your remaining tier credits to reach diamond aspirations 2 and unlock all of the benefits....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chimp

Unbelievable.....a friend of mine just got an email from Harrahs New Orleans saying something like....

...You still have time. Come stay with us and earn your remaining tier credits to reach diamond aspirations 2 and unlock all of the benefits....

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Hi Chimp

While quite ironic, the email is accurate in that if your friend hits the 80,000 tier level this year, she can still use the aspirations 2 benefits by June 2018 For a trip with the $750 travel credit but booked by Jan 2018. That is a short fuse.

Great to hear from you.

FAB

Ahhh FAB. I hadn’t thought of that.

Yeah, I just booked my 2017 Aspirations 2 Celebration Dinner (4 nights, $100 folio credit) for late May 2018.

But that's all I can book right now. They have not yet generated the code for the Seven Stars comp room for February 1 and beyond, and I'm worried that code may never come to exist.

I guess it's time to play the waiting game, but as FAB mentioned, the circumstantial evidence doesn't look good.

I've also been in contact with Darryl from Seven Stars Insider, who seems to believe this is much ado about nothing. He claims that the benefit was never a "guaranteed 4 nights" in the past, according to the official rules:

"At a minimum, one room per night will be provided, with a maximum of four consecutive nights", is how it read in the rules from 2015-17.

That may not be a hard guarantee, but in my opinion, it's pretty damn close.

And this year, they knowingly left the complimentary room benefit out of the e-mail and website chart, when it was there in prior years.

For some reason, Darryl is not alarmed by the change in the benefits e-mail and the website chart.

I think Darryl is being too dismissive. They changed the wording and the chart for a reason -- and the most likely scenario is that they've eliminated or curtailed the free room benefit. While I agree this isn't certain, and you can't ever draw 100% conclusions from anything CET does, I'm much more worried about this than he is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FABismonte

My wife has about 35,000 in Reward Credits which can be used for $350 in hotel related charges or $200 in free play at her Diamond rate. I expect to have her "gift" me the max of 10,000 in Reward credits so I can convert to Free play this year at the Seven Stars $1 to 1.25 ratio for 2017.

FAB

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Fab isn't 10,000 in Reward Credits just $100, and after conversion to free play it's $80 ???

Dan being overcomped you do have to be concerned. You probably have a big target on your back for over working the system. I think other players won't have trouble with free rooms. But they're out to get you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Dan being overcomped you do have to be concerned. You probably have a big target on your back for over working the system. I think other players won't have trouble with free rooms. But they're out to get you.

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Not out to get me. Maybe out to get players like me.

But this is bad for everyone, because now you will have to earn your free rooms, and if you take a few consecutive trips without playing, good luck getting a comped room after that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FABismonte

My wife has about 35,000 in Reward Credits which can be used for $350 in hotel related charges or $200 in free play at her Diamond rate. I expect to have her "gift" me the max of 10,000 in Reward credits so I can convert to Free play this year at the Seven Stars $1 to 1.25 ratio for 2017.

FAB

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Fab isn't 10,000 in Reward Credits just $100, and after conversion to free play it's $80 ???

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Alan, you got it. Not a life changing event. Just an adjustment in the margins.

I saw an update from Darryl at Seven Stars Insider, regarding this situation. He has no more information than we do at the moment, but he editorialized a bit. While acknowledging that there's a good chance the guaranteed room benefit is going away, he very much downplayed its significance:

Quote:

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... it seems to me that the wording for 2018 is a catch-all for all tier levels since even Gold members with a good history of play could qualify for a complimentary room. This also gives a casino discretion when it comes to, say, a Seven Stars cardholder taking advantage of this benefit – as I've heard many do. In other words, a complimentary room for any level cardholder is no longer guaranteed. Seven Stars cardholders who don't "stiff" Caesars and have a good history of play shouldn't have anything to worry about.

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Let me start off by saying that I like Darryl and his website. I think he puts out a lot of great (and usually very accurate) information, and his website is a far better resource for Seven Stars members than most Caesars employees! He's also not afraid to criticize Caesars where they deserve it, which I also respect.

However, I think he's way off the mark here. He is downplaying this as simply a way for Caesars to get rid of "Seven Stars room abusers", when in reality it's much more than that.

I must respectfully disagree with him. If the room is no longer guaranteed, then that’s a huge deal, and a very big departure from what made Seven Stars so much better than other casino rewards programs

As most of you know, Seven Stars has a number of guaranteed benefits. Once you make Seven Stars, you get them no matter what. The largest and most valuable those benefits was the guaranteed complimentary 4-night stay.

Darryl wrote “Seven Stars cardholders who don’t ‘stiff’ Caesars and have a good history of play shouldn’t have anything to worry about.”

That’s true, but that can be said for any casino’s rewards system. If you are actively playing at a high level, you will get comp rooms. That practice goes back many decades. Now it appears that Caesars is making you actively “earn” your free stays, which is a huge degradation of the Seven Stars benefits. For example, if you play actively in early 2018, but then stay a few times without playing, they may refuse to comp your room the following trip. That isn’t what I’d call “stiffing” Caesars, and many gamblers were attracted to the Seven Stars program because they had certain benefits they could always count on.

With the departure of the guaranteed comp room benefit (if that’s what’s happening), Seven Stars becomes a lot more like other casino rewards programs -- and that's not a good thing.

This guy wrote a column also claiming the free room benefit is gone: https://travelzork.com/changes-total...2018-benefits/

Dan I'm afraid that the situation simply comes down to this:

Every time I've been to Caesars over the last six months, even when I just visited the casino and did not have a room, the place has been packed. I think business is now so good they no longer have to give free rooms to those who don't play. Look at the parking fees: despite predictions the fees wouldn't last they are still in effect AND now even locals are getting charged.

Eric Rosenthal, who runs that Travelzork column I linked above, said he confirmed the degradation of the room benefit with a National Casino Marketing host at Caesars.

So this looks like it's really happening.

Right now here's a summary of all of the degradations:

Diamond

- No more Aspirations #1 at 40,000 tier credits, meaning you lose your 4-night stay at any Caesars property with $100 folio credit

- No more Aspirations #2 at 80,000 tier credits, meaning you lose your $750 airfare credit and 4-night stay at any Caesars property

- No more Aspirations #2 two-night suite stay at any Caesars property

- Redemption of RCs to freeplay changes from 1.75:1 to 2:1 ratio.

- Access to Diamond Lounges now requires 25,000 tier credits. If you have 15,000-24,999 tiers, you will need to pay 1000 RCs (worth $10) to get in.

Basically, low Diamonds (15,000 tiers) get treated the exact same now as high Diamonds (80,000+ tiers), aside from the Diamond Lounge thing.



Seven Stars

- No more complimentary room benefit!! This a huge degradation, as this was by far the best benefit of the Seven Stars program. Up until 2018, you were able to get a 4-night stay complimentary at any Caesars property, with no blackout dates. You could also do this as many times as you wanted, as long as 48 hours were between reservations. This appears to be gone, but it's not totally confirmed.

- Redemption of RCs to freeplay changes from 1.25:1 to 2:1 ratio.

- Two of the four Signature Events are now only available to players with 500,000 or more tier credits. Seven Stars members with fewer than 500,000 tier credits can only go to Atlantic City or Las Vegas for their Signature Event. (These are kinda lame anyway, but it's yet another degradation.)

For those affected by the loss of the comp room benefit, you can still get 10 free nights in the first half of 2018, provided you book before January 31:

- Up to 4 nights for Diamond Aspirations 2 trip (plus 75,000 RCs if you pay your own way there)

- Up to 4 nights plus $100 folio credit for Diamond Aspirations 1 celebration dinner

- Up to 2 nights in a suite (Diamond Aspirations 2 benefit)

All of these must be booked by January 31, but don't have to take place until June 30.

Dan the big question now is how much play do you need to still get a free room?

Dan what do you think you will do for the WSOP? There are no comps for playing the WSOP so what's the plan?

CONFIRMED

Free room benefit is gone.

I just called Total Rewards.

Employee there tried to downplay this at first, stating that "it's very similar, except you just can't book at the last minute anymore and be guaranteed a room."

This sounded like BS to me, so I pressed for more details.

Finally she confirmed and admitted that the entire free room benefit is going away, and that it's now going to be "based upon play".

She tried to claim that it's also currently based on play in 2017, but I pointed out that's not correct, and again she conceded I was right.

Then I asked, "So Seven Stars now have no more room benefit of any kind. A Seven Stars member has to get his comp rooms by earning it through play, just like a Gold member does. He has no other advantage getting a comp room. Is that correct?"

She said that, yes, it was correct.

Even though she gave me a few different contradicting answers, I think I believe her. For example, my first question upon calling was whether or not the free room benefit was going away for Seven Stars, and she said, "Yes, that is correct, it's been removed." Then she tried her BS spin after that.

She also told me that Total Rewards employees were told about this yesterday.

I'm guessing that they were advised to soften the blow to people asking by trotting out those nonsense claims like, "It's actually similar to before", hoping that most would qualify for the free rooms anyway (from their play) and won't get as pissed.

But make no mistake, this is a huge degradation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Dan what do you think you will do for the WSOP? There are no comps for playing the WSOP so what's the plan?

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Gonna use those 10 nights I mentioned above, then will reevaluate.

Dan I still think the question is how much play is needed for free rooms?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Dan I still think the question is how much play is needed for free rooms?

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Obviously that varies based on property, season, day of week, etc. You have nothing to worry about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Dan I still think the question is how much play is needed for free rooms?

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There is no simple answer to that.

Depends upon the theo of the games you're playing, the market you're in, your play history, etc.

A new Total Rewards member can probably play for 30 minutes at $5 VP and score free rooms for a few months. Someone like me could play the same VP for 100 hours and still not get there, if the games are full pay.

Someone like you probably just needs to maintain a fair amount of mid-high limit play each trip.

Now we are just back to the old model used at EVERY property, where recent and semi-recent play qualifies you for comps, and that's it.

Total Rewards contradicted that model with their guaranteed benefits, but those are going away, at least when it comes to free rooms.

Awful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Eric Rosenthal, who runs that Travelzork column I linked above, said he confirmed the degradation of the room benefit with a National Casino Marketing host at Caesars.

So this looks like it's really happening.

Right now here's a summary of all of the degradations:

Diamond

- No more Aspirations #1 at 40,000 tier credits, meaning you lose your 4-night stay at any Caesars property with $100 folio credit

- No more Aspirations #2 at 80,000 tier credits, meaning you lose your $750 airfare credit and 4-night stay at any Caesars property

- No more Aspirations #2 two-night suite stay at any Caesars property

- Redemption of RCs to freeplay changes from 1.75:1 to 2:1 ratio.

- Access to Diamond Lounges now requires 25,000 tier credits. If you have 15,000-24,999 tiers, you will need to pay 1000 RCs (worth $10) to get in.

Basically, low Diamonds (15,000 tiers) get treated the exact same now as high Diamonds (80,000+ tiers), aside from the Diamond Lounge thing.



Seven Stars

- No more complimentary room benefit!! This a huge degradation, as this was by far the best benefit of the Seven Stars program. Up until 2018, you were able to get a 4-night stay complimentary at any Caesars property, with no blackout dates. You could also do this as many times as you wanted, as long as 48 hours were between reservations. This appears to be gone, but it's not totally confirmed.

- Redemption of RCs to freeplay changes from 1.25:1 to 2:1 ratio.

- Two of the four Signature Events are now only available to players with 500,000 or more tier credits. Seven Stars members with fewer than 500,000 tier credits can only go to Atlantic City or Las Vegas for their Signature Event. (These are kinda lame anyway, but it's yet another degradation.)

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This is a good summary of the degradations. As a 7 stars I always used the diamond 2 trip. Normally my play would qualify for comped rooms but it was always nice to be able to invoke the 7 stars room comp if need be during a holiday period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

For those affected by the loss of the comp room benefit, you can still get 10 free nights in the first half of 2018, provided you book before January 31:

- Up to 4 nights for Diamond Aspirations 2 trip (plus 75,000 RCs if you pay your own way there)

- Up to 4 nights plus $100 folio credit for Diamond Aspirations 1 celebration dinner

- Up to 2 nights in a suite (Diamond Aspirations 2 benefit)

All of these must be booked by January 31, but don't have to take place until June 30.

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So, is it your experience that the “2 nights in a suite” can be booked as a separate trip?

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Originally Posted by Dankyone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

For those affected by the loss of the comp room benefit, you can still get 10 free nights in the first half of 2018, provided you book before January 31:

- Up to 4 nights for Diamond Aspirations 2 trip (plus 75,000 RCs if you pay your own way there)

- Up to 4 nights plus $100 folio credit for Diamond Aspirations 1 celebration dinner

- Up to 2 nights in a suite (Diamond Aspirations 2 benefit)

All of these must be booked by January 31, but don't have to take place until June 30.

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So, is it you experience that he “2 nights in a suite” can be booked as a separate trip?

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Yes, but it has to be 48 hours or more away from your last comp booking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dankyone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

For those affected by the loss of the comp room benefit, you can still get 10 free nights in the first half of 2018, provided you book before January 31:

- Up to 4 nights for Diamond Aspirations 2 trip (plus 75,000 RCs if you pay your own way there)

- Up to 4 nights plus $100 folio credit for Diamond Aspirations 1 celebration dinner

- Up to 2 nights in a suite (Diamond Aspirations 2 benefit)

All of these must be booked by January 31, but don't have to take place until June 30.

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So, is it you experience that he “2 nights in a suite” can be booked as a separate trip?

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Yes, but it has to be 48 hours or more away from your last comp booking.

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Nobu would be a good place to use that one.

The 2018 rules are now on the total rewards website.

Heres another surprise: Seven Stars no longer get automatic free guests to Diamond Lounges.

That $10 fee for Diamond Lounges must be paid in Reward Credits which mears you have to play, just can't pay cash.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

CONFIRMED

Free room benefit is gone.

I just called Total Rewards.

Employee there tried to downplay this at first, stating that "it's very similar, except you just can't book at the last minute anymore and be guaranteed a room."

This sounded like BS to me, so I pressed for more details.

Finally she confirmed and admitted that the entire free room benefit is going away, and that it's now going to be "based upon play".

She tried to claim that it's also currently based on play in 2017, but I pointed out that's not correct, and again she conceded I was right.

Then I asked, "So Seven Stars now have no more room benefit of any kind. A Seven Stars member has to get his comp rooms by earning it through play, just like a Gold member does. He has no other advantage getting a comp room. Is that correct?"

She said that, yes, it was correct.

Even though she gave me a few different contradicting answers, I think I believe her. For example, my first question upon calling was whether or not the free room benefit was going away for Seven Stars, and she said, "Yes, that is correct, it's been removed." Then she tried her BS spin after that.

She also told me that Total Rewards employees were told about this yesterday.

I'm guessing that they were advised to soften the blow to people asking by trotting out those nonsense claims like, "It's actually similar to before", hoping that most would qualify for the free rooms anyway (from their play) and won't get as pissed.

But make no mistake, this is a huge degradation.

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This is so typical of so many interactions with CET employees. I expect they MUST be instructed to obfuscate and withhold information to confuse their players. It takes knowledge and persistence to beat an answer out of them.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

The 2018 rules are now on the total rewards website.

Heres another surprise: Seven Stars no longer get automatic free guests to Diamond Lounges.

That $10 fee for Diamond Lounges must be paid in Reward Credits which mears you have to play, just can't pay cash.

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Hi Alan:

Are you referring to the cryptic language in footnote 8 of the "Benefits " for 2018: "Additional fees for guests brought to the Diamond Lounge with Diamond or Seven Stars member may apply." If so, what is that supposed to mean? Only as to Atlantic City where there really is food? How many guests can a Seven Stars bring in? Lot of questions . . .

FAB

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Originally Posted by FABismonte

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

The 2018 rules are now on the total rewards website.

Heres another surprise: Seven Stars no longer get automatic free guests to Diamond Lounges.

That $10 fee for Diamond Lounges must be paid in Reward Credits which mears you have to play, just can't pay cash.

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Hi Alan:

Are you referring to the cryptic language in footnote 8 of the "Benefits " for 2018: "Additional fees for guests brought to the Diamond Lounge with Diamond or Seven Stars member may apply." If so, what is that supposed to mean? Only as to Atlantic City where there really is food? How many guests can a Seven Stars bring in? Lot of questions . . .

FAB

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Yes. I think charges will be based on demand. If you have a busy holiday weekend the cardholders will get in free and there will be charges for everyone else.

Alan is referring to the benefit chart, I think.

The rules still haven't been posted.

I also find it crappy that they are trying to hide this change.

If you're going to make a MAJOR change to the Seven Stars program and remove its biggest benefit, at least be honest and straightforward about it to customers.

Amazing that they actually sent out a benefits e-mail a few days ago, and purposely didn't state that this had changed, hoping that by omitting it as a listed benefit, they had done enough.

Compare this to the e-mails they sent about the Diamond Lounge changes, which were very clear and forthright.

They definitely didn't want people understanding what was going on here.

Just off the phone and was told this about the changes to free rooms and Diamond Lounges:

"There has been too much abuse."

The days of comp whoring are over.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Just off the phone and was told this about the changes to free rooms and Diamond Lounges:

"There has been too much abuse."

The days of comp whoring are over.

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I agree with you on this one, there has been too much abuse. Who told you that?

To Dan’s credit, he found a loophole which allowed him to enjoy comps far in excess of expected losses using the stated parameters of 7 stars. Other people undoubtedly did that too, and they are closing that loophole.

That does not mean the days of comp whoring are over, though!

I was sitting at 23,000 RC's and decided to get the additional 2,000 today to lock in the Diamond room. Was questioning whether it was even worth it--and now you tell me I can't bring a guest in. Now it really isn't worth it. Luckily won $1400 chasing the 2000 RC's.

Hi Regnis:

Congratulations on the win. I think the jury is out on whether a guest of a 25k Diamond has to pay any fee in 2018. No clarity as I can see

FAB

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Originally Posted by regnis

I was sitting at 23,000 RC's and decided to get the additional 2,000 today to lock in the Diamond room. Was questioning whether it was even worth it--and now you tell me I can't bring a guest in. Now it really isn't worth it. Luckily won $1400 chasing the 2000 RC's.

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I hope you mean tier credits, and not RCs!

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Just off the phone and was told this about the changes to free rooms and Diamond Lounges:

"There has been too much abuse."

The days of comp whoring are over.

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If that's the issue, I don't understand why they don't just restrict it.

For example:

- Make a rule that you can only stay X number of free nights per year on the Seven Stars benefits
- Black out certain high occupancy dates
- Require a long advance booking (30 days or more)

That would be better than completely eliminating the benefit.

I think CET is shooting itself in the foot in attempt to squeeze out a small number of Seven Stars value grinders.

Many recreational players just like the whole "guaranteed room" aspect of the program. I saw a guy on Twitter today saying that he likes being able to travel to properties around the country using the Seven Stars benefit, and that's why he gambled with CET and became a Seven Stars.

People don't like uncertainty. They don't like hearing, "You can get comped if your play justifies it". They like knowing that, no matter what, those four nights will be waiting for them anytime.

The stupid thing here is that CET is not even saving that much money. Room costs are negligible, except when they are sold out. If you stay at Caesars during a non-event Wednesday night, you are costing them a few dollars at most. At the same time, even the Seven Stars value grinders spend money while on property. I'm not saying that they necessarily make money on these grinders, but they aren't being taken to the cleaners, either.

I think some idiot in marketing came to the same (likely incorrect) conclusion that Darryl of Seven Stars Insider did:

"This will only affect that customers who were abusing our free room benefit, and we don't want them anyway, so for everyone else it will have no impact."

Except it will.

Sure, the big gamblers won't be affected.

But many of the recreational Seven Stars will stop being able to find comp rooms (especially in rarely-visited markets) during weekends, holidays, conventions, etc. It will be a jolt to the system. I think this will impact far more people than they believe.

There's also the psychological aspect of the whole thing. You make Seven Stars, and you KNOW you will be getting free rooms at any of their properties for the next 1-2 years. It's a nice feeling, even if you would have qualified anyway.

I think this was best summed up by Eric from the Travelzork site (on Twitter):

"CET Properties are rarely the best of breed in any market. The one thing they did better than anyone else was player/consumer loyalty. I'm not privy to their numbers, so it may be a sound decision but I can no longer answer why they should get one's action."

Exactly.

Dan they'll welcome players for any number of free nights when they play.

There's no reason to black out a real player.

They wouldn't want to restrict a real player from calling his host on Friday to say "I'm coming up."

All Caesars wants to do is have rooms for players and for those willing to pay. As I mentioned business has been good. It's so good they even charge for parking.

They are charging for parking because they can. It became the industry standard after MGM did it and got away with it.

The problem is that you're playing fast and loose with the definition of "real player". It's not a black-and-white distinction between obvious comp whores and highly-valuable whales.

In reality, many players behave differently from trip to trip -- sometimes playing a lot, sometimes playing a little, and sometimes not at all. A few consecutive trips of little play, and there goes their comp rooms.

Also, traveling to other markets -- especially during busy periods -- can also result in a lack of comps given, as some properties don't like comping out-of-market visitors, assuming they are more likely there to travel than there to gamble.

They aren't doing this to free up rooms. They have plenty of rooms on most nights.

This is an attack on "value" Diamond and Seven Stars members, but many others will get caught in the crossfire.

They are misunderstanding what made their program appealing in the first place.

I'll compare Total Rewards to a buffet, and maybe you'll understand.

Say I run a buffet restaurant.

It's best for me when 90-pound women come in, pay full price, and eat just a few bites.

It's worst for me when big guys with huge appetites come in hungry and consume a ton of food.

However, it all averages out, and I realize that accepting the big guys with the huge appetites is part of the cost of doing business.

Well, one day after watching a few big guys eating far more in food than the price they paid for admission, I get angry and decide I'm going to put a stop to this.

I put up signs all over the buffet that the most popular (and expensive) items are limited to two helpings. Each customer is now given two tickets for each of these areas, which they have to present in order to get food. So if you want a cut of prime rib, you hand over one of your two prime rib tickets.

The big, gluttonous guys are put off by this, and they stop coming to my buffet -- exactly what I was hoping for.

But then I notice the place is a ghost town, and I hardly have any customers at all.

I see one of those 90-pound women turn around without deciding to enter the buffet, and I ask her what's wrong.

"As soon as I saw the food here wasn't unlimited anymore, it lost appeal," she tells me.

"But I've watched you before. You don't eat very much. This won't affect you at all. I've never seen you have more than two helpings of prime rib, for example," I reply.

"That's right," she says. "But at least I knew I could if I wanted to. Now that I know this is all limited, there's really no point to go to your buffet anymore."

And she walks out.

That's what I think is going to happen to CET.

Right now, most people are unaware of this change. However, come 2018, as this is widely discovered, people are going to realize that there's really no advantage to confining their business to CET anymore, if big guaranteed benefits like these are removed.

Sometimes people just want to feel like they earned something, and that they know what to expect.

This is a big mistake.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

They are charging for parking because they can.

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And they can take away the comps and the free stuff because they can.

Business is good for the Caesars empire. It's so good they don't have to give free rooms anymore, and they can charge for parking, and they can cut back on offers, and they are getting more and more people.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

They are charging for parking because they can.

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And they can take away the comps and the free stuff because they can.

Business is good for the Caesars empire. It's so good they don't have to give free rooms anymore, and they can charge for parking, and they can cut back on offers, and they are getting more and more people.

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Nobody is arguing that they can't change things.

They can at any time. Total Rewards is considered "promotional", and thus we have no rights to any of its benefits.

The question is whether they SHOULD, and whether actions like this will hurt them.

I feel that Seven Stars members are going to start abandoning CET once word of this gets around.

It will definitely hurt them.... unless MGM follows.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by regnis

I was sitting at 23,000 RC's and decided to get the additional 2,000 today to lock in the Diamond room. Was questioning whether it was even worth it--and now you tell me I can't bring a guest in. Now it really isn't worth it. Luckily won $1400 chasing the 2000 RC's.

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I hope you mean tier credits, and not RCs!

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yep

Regnis,

My friend who plays craps just did the same thing yesterday -- got over the 25,000 mark with about 1000 in play. He debated making a push for the 5,000/10,000 bonus in a day thing, but I told him about the aspirations extinction. What was sleazy was that when asked directly about Aspirations biting the dust, the desk person hemmed and lied, "We haven't heard anything yet." What a crock. Next year, you need 25,000 to get in the diamond lounge. So at least it's useful he got to 25,000.

P.S. "Real player" is a euphemism for a lot of things -- none of them good.

I was thinking the same thing about getting the 5000. But in the back of my mind I was thinking I read something here that aspirations died so I left after I was at 25000. I don't really go often enough anymore to make it worthwhile, but since I only needed 2,000 I figured why not.

So I have to give props to this site for making people aware of the changes. If I hadn't told my friend, he may have tried a seven hour grind.

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Originally Posted by redietz

So I have to give props to this site for making people aware of the changes. If I hadn't told my friend, he may have tried a seven hour grind.

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Yes, thanks to Dan for looking into this and presenting clear information which most CET employees either can’t or won’t. This will probably be my last year as 7 stars.

Thanks for the props, guys. I just want the gambling consumer to always fully understand what they're dealing with, and to always make an informed decision. CET appears to be attempting to keep these changes in the dark for as long as possible, hoping their omissions aren't noticed by most.

I really wish that Darryl of Seven Stars Insider would get on board regarding complaining about this. His site is popular and many respect his opinion. He's never been shy before about criticizing CET, so everyone knows he's not a shill. Therefore, when he publishes an opinion that major changes like this "aren't a big deal" and that the program is "mostly the same as last year", this gives his readers the wrong impression.

The program has changed more in 2018 than any other year in recent memory, and all of it for the worse. It's up to those running casino discussion sites (especially ones largely focused on CET) to really make it clear that this is a terrible neutering of the program.

Indeed, there is no reason to get past 25,000 TC anymore, and no reason to get past 15,000 if you're not into the Diamond Lounges.

You get nothing for passing 25k on the Diamond side, and reaching 150k is no longer worth it, as Seven Stars has been ruined.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Thanks for the props, guys. I just want the gambling consumer to always fully understand what they're dealing with, and to always make an informed decision. CET appears to be attempting to keep these changes in the dark for as long as possible, hoping their omissions aren't noticed by most.

I really wish that Darryl of Seven Stars Insider would get on board regarding complaining about this. His site is popular and many respect his opinion. He's never been shy before about criticizing CET, so everyone knows he's not a shill. Therefore, when he publishes an opinion that major changes like this "aren't a big deal" and that the program is "mostly the same as last year", this gives his readers the wrong impression.

The program has changed more in 2018 than any other year in recent memory, and all of it for the worse. It's up to those running casino discussion sites (especially ones largely focused on CET) to really make it clear that this is a terrible neutering of the program.

Indeed, there is no reason to get past 25,000 TC anymore, and no reason to get past 15,000 if you're not into the Diamond Lounges.

You get nothing for passing 25k on the Diamond side, and reaching 150k is no longer worth it, as Seven Stars has been ruined.

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Yeah—I’m surprised that Darryl took such a mild approach to this. No doubt he won’t be personally impacted, but they have changed the guaranteed room comp any day into “come on in and we shall see” which is not good.

I think I am seeing what's going on with Darryl. He's a little bit confused about how the Seven Stars comp works in the CET system, probably because he's a slot player and never actually had to use it. (That is, he probably always qualified for free rooms by play anyway.)

Darryl concedes that the Seven Stars room comp has been removed by policy, but "may not be enforced".

He's correct in one way -- not every policy is enforced. For example, for years the official rules have claimed that 96 hours are required between comp reservations, but only a 48-hour rule has ever been enforced.

However, in this case, it's not a case where selective enforcement can occur.

Seven Stars comp reservations can only be done through the 800 number or a host, using a special internal code which is generated for each individual year.

So if no "Seven Stars comp room" code is generated for 2018 (which is likely going to be the case), then this will automatically be "enforced" by the system.

Darryl tried an experiment today by making a random booking after February 1, and it showed him $0 for 4 nights.

However, he did this on the Total Rewards website. This means nothing because the Total Rewards website only offers comp rooms based upon play and offers -- NOT the Seven Stars comp benefit.

I just can't see CET knowingly making this major change, adjusting their website to reflect that change, and then knowingly generating a Seven Stars comp code for 2018 anyway.

I think the only chance we have to get these Seven Stars room comps is if there's such intense player anger that corporate decides to reverse this change before February 1. But I don't think it's likely.

Hi Dan:

Speaking of CET policy of purposeful omissions, I did not see any mention of the "free" annual Seven Stars NCL cruise for 2018. Did that fall away too?

FAB

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Originally Posted by FABismonte

Hi Dan:

Speaking of CET policy of purposeful omissions, I did not see any mention of the "free" annual Seven Stars NCL cruise for 2018. Did that fall away too?

FAB

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It's still there.

On the 2018 benefits page, near the bottom, they list "Congratulatory Voyage with Norwegian Cruise Line".

While I laughed at the "congratulatory" description, it's still there as expected.