Charming Pinball Museum saved after raising over $200k in donations

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

I forgot to comment on Space Ace and the Dragon's Lair games. I was more of a freestyle player and never got good at these because it seemed like it was all rote memorization rather than just pure eye-hand coordination. But I see the appeal and I vividly recall the amazing graphics.

---

I always hated Dragon's Lair for that reason. It looked great but it was such an absurd quarter muncher. I don't think I ever passed more than one or two screens.

---

Due to the success of the Dragons Lair I and II series and Space Ace coin-op disc games from Cinematronics, Atari decided to get into the laser disc coin-op game market and I remember seeing this jet fighter laser disc game (based on the Firefox Clint Eastwood movie I guess) in the arcade back when it was new (the big difference was Atari made free form laser disc games - not the memorize-the-move that gets you to the next animation screen Dragons Lair type game). Unfortunately, the other laser disc coin-op games that Atari made were ones that I never encountered at the arcade - probably because I was too busy playing pinball all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDa2b9UVFOE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

I forgot to comment on Space Ace and the Dragon's Lair games. I was more of a freestyle player and never got good at these because it seemed like it was all rote memorization rather than just pure eye-hand coordination. But I see the appeal and I vividly recall the amazing graphics.

---

I always hated Dragon's Lair for that reason. It looked great but it was such an absurd quarter muncher. I don't think I ever passed more than one or two screens.

---

It's obvious that you guys were just casual players of the game.
I may have been a hair above a casual player but nowhere near the professional level.
It is well documented that the pros made fun of Dragons Lair I and II and demanded a more difficult challenge.
Hence the reason that Space Ace was made.
It's well documented.
Although Space Ace was a commercial success it never reached the same success as Dragons Lair.
Most likely because the casual player or ploppie found it too difficult and cost too many quarters.

Interesting Note...
I lived in Glendale Arizona for a few months back in the early 90's because I had family over there.
A nearby Arcade had Free Dragons Lair and Free Dragons Lair II.
I'm not sure why and I never asked any questions but I played the heck out of them.
Easy Way to learn all the moves.
I still don't understand why they allowed that game to be free.
Probably had the same mentality as me in life.
Fuck It!
I'll show these Fuckers... I'll give this shit away for Free!

Once I had Dragon's Lair II down pat I used to go over to the Metrocenter Mall and play at the Castle's and Coasters Arcade playing Dragon's Lair II.
At that time I could beat the game on one or two credits.
Thanks to the owner who let everyone play those two games for free, whom I never met.
Fun!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

I always hated Dragon's Lair for that reason. It looked great but it was such an absurd quarter muncher. I don't think I ever passed more than one or two screens.

---

Due to the success of the Dragons Lair I and II series and Space Ace coin-op disc games from Cinematronics, Atari decided to get into the laser disc coin-op game market and I remember seeing this jet fighter laser disc game (based on the Firefox Clint Eastwood movie I guess) in the arcade back when it was new (the big difference was Atari made free form laser disc games - not the memorize-the-move that gets you to the next animation screen Dragons Lair type game). Unfortunately, the other laser disc coin-op games that Atari made were ones that I never encountered at the arcade - probably because I was too busy playing pinball all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDa2b9UVFOE[/QUOTE]

Can't believe I never seen that game.
I was right in the heart of 1983 and the Arcade Craze too.
Thanks for the information and YouTube Link.
I always enjoyed that movie and would of liked to have played the video game version of it.
I suppose Afterburner was the closest I got.
I think that may have been the first flight simulator game that actually rolled you around while playing.
Good Times.

I see some similarities in the two games.
Funny how After Burner I and II were released in the same year.
I guess they knew they were going to have a major success with the first one that they made the second one at the same time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84qaXESXdT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65weTx0haog

Dragon's Lair Pro...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsk9CFfrYMY

Monet,

Sure it's easy after you've had a bunch of free plays lol.

If you're paying a quarter per game it's terrible because it's all trial -and-error. Because your on screen character is not actually reacting to your inputs you really have no way of knowing what the "right" timing is.

I never saw Space Age as far as I can remember.

Dragon's Lair II Time Warp is by far the more enjoyable game in my opinion.
It really picks up during this Beethoven Scene.
But the Alice in Wonderland/Queen of Hearts scene is just as enjoyable.
I might have to crack this game out again.
The difficult part to this game is collecting all the treasures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg1zUO1sr6M

This Fucking Guy is way more of an addict compared to myself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhjEAVQLsNk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Monet,

Sure it's easy after you've had a bunch of free plays lol.

If you're paying a quarter per game it's terrible because it's all trial -and-error. Because your on screen character is not actually reacting to your inputs you really have no way of knowing what the "right" timing is.

I never saw Space Age as far as I can remember.

---

True but not for the pros.
They cracked both versions of the game lickety split from the jump.
Something about the timing.
They claimed that the game gave you way too much time to make the correct decision.
For ploppies like you and me, yes, we had to have many run throughs.

That's why they made Space Ace much more difficult.
Giving the player much less time to make their reaction/decision.
I'm serious.
The Pros were complaining to the creators about how easy Dragon' Lair I and II were so Don got all pissed off and made Space Ace.
The pro players were goofing on him and his Dragon Lair Game(s) lol lol lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

I forgot to comment on Space Ace and the Dragon's Lair games. I was more of a freestyle player and never got good at these because it seemed like it was all rote memorization rather than just pure eye-hand coordination. But I see the appeal and I vividly recall the amazing graphics.

---

I always hated Dragon's Lair for that reason. It looked great but it was such an absurd quarter muncher. I don't think I ever passed more than one or two screens.

---

Due to the success of the Dragons Lair I and II series and Space Ace coin-op disc games from Cinematronics, Atari decided to get into the laser disc coin-op game market and I remember seeing this jet fighter laser disc game (based on the Firefox Clint Eastwood movie I guess) in the arcade back when it was new (the big difference was Atari made free form laser disc games - not the memorize-the-move that gets you to the next animation screen Dragons Lair type game). Unfortunately, the other laser disc coin-op games that Atari made were ones that I never encountered at the arcade - probably because I was too busy playing pinball all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDa2b9UVFOE

---

Thank you for the link Tableplay. I didn't even know this existed. It seems to me that maybe these aren't available on the emulators because a laserdisc based game is a whole different beast? Most all arcade games you can download and play on MAME. (I'm sure you know this but for those who missed it.)

I should clarify that the pros were goofing on the difficulty of the two games and not the artwork or the game itself.
Dragon's Lair is still celebrated as having the best artwork in any game even made today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

play at the Castle's and Coasters Arcade playing Dragon's Lair II.
At that time I could beat the game on one or two credits.
Thanks to the owner who let everyone play those two games for free, whom I never met.
Fun!

---

Yes unfortunately Monet, the Dragons Lair I had exposure to was not set on free play. I could not afford to get good at the game on the 50 cents that I came in with in my pocket, whatever quarters I hustled in the stuck coin chutes, and the revenue from selling racked up pinball machine credits (those got spent on hot tamales candy from the arcade vending machine back when Ferrera Pan still owned the rights to that candy for the most part). No problem on the Firefox link, glad you enjoyed it.

Now on to Castles and Coasters. I loved the round circle configuration they had the pinball machines in. I loved that the place was absolutely fuck-ton loaded with pinball machines. I think back then they had about 30 machines IIRC. I didn't live in the area but I went to the pinball tournaments/shows at the Safari Hotel (Scottsdale) back then (The Pinball Show and Wild West Pinball Fest) and we hit some of the local arcades in the area (the other place we hit was Video Roundup in Scottsdale) during those trips.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Monet,

Sure it's easy after you've had a bunch of free plays lol.

If you're paying a quarter per game it's terrible because it's all trial -and-error. Because your on screen character is not actually reacting to your inputs you really have no way of knowing what the "right" timing is.

I never saw Space Age as far as I can remember.

---

Space Ace had insane graphics - I think I only tried it a couple of times.
Too bad that it didn't have the success that the 1st two games had (I mistakenly thought all three games were a success but Monet straightened me out - Space Ace was just too hard for the casual players;since I wasn't good at the Dragon's Lair games I had no idea back then that Space Ace was more difficult).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

I always hated Dragon's Lair for that reason. It looked great but it was such an absurd quarter muncher. I don't think I ever passed more than one or two screens.

---

Due to the success of the Dragons Lair I and II series and Space Ace coin-op disc games from Cinematronics, Atari decided to get into the laser disc coin-op game market and I remember seeing this jet fighter laser disc game (based on the Firefox Clint Eastwood movie I guess) in the arcade back when it was new (the big difference was Atari made free form laser disc games - not the memorize-the-move that gets you to the next animation screen Dragons Lair type game). Unfortunately, the other laser disc coin-op games that Atari made were ones that I never encountered at the arcade - probably because I was too busy playing pinball all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDa2b9UVFOE

---

Thank you for the link Tableplay. I didn't even know this existed. It seems to me that maybe these aren't available on the emulators because a laserdisc based game is a whole different beast? Most all arcade games you can download and play on MAME. (I'm sure you know this but for those who missed it.)

---

No problem. I don't know why they aren't available on emulators, but your guess is probably correct. There may be laser disc emulators out there, but to build an emulator for such a small library of games (maybe 30 or 40 coin-op/arcade laser disc games in total) seems unlikely. Whereas MAME and pinMAME are justified since several thousand standard video games were made.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Space Ace had insane graphics - I think I only tried it a couple of times.
Too bad that it didn't have the success that the 1st two games had (I mistakenly thought all three games were a success but Monet straightened me out - Space Ace was just too hard for the casual players;since I wasn't good at the Dragon's Lair games I had no idea back then that Space Ace was more difficult).

---

Space Ace was a commercial success.
Just not near what the original Dragon's Lair was.
Heck, Dragon's Lair II couldn't touch the original either even though I like the gameplay and storyline better.
They made Dragon's Lair II easier with the left, right, up, down, sword flashes unlike its predecessor.
And they didn't put in the 5 random levels that change the patterns.
I should state that it is difficult to find the original games these days as the Laser Discs had issues and broke and could not be repaired.
Most originals are going to be in private collections if they exist at all.
It is hard to compare people playing it today versus the larger amount of players playing it back in the 80s and 90s.
The Free Play Video had really good information about the original gameplay.
But we don't have videos of all those pros back in the mid 80s and 90s killing these games.

I should also add that the group of pros that caused the high quality (but, as I just learned, revenue dud) Space Ace game to get made, were probably the same sort that caused Atari's Marble Madness II to get made. Recall that Marble Madness was a huge success for Atari, but the fiendishly hard quarter-eater and super rare Marble Madness II was a commercial failure. I sucked at both games. The only video games from that era that I was average at were Donkey Kong, Xevious, Defender, Ghosts and Goblins and Crazy Climber (I probably forgot a couple, but whatever). Being a pinball specialist had its bad side I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

I should also add that the group of pros that caused the high quality (but, as I just learned, revenue dud) Space Ace game to get made, were probably the same sort that caused Atari's Marble Madness II to get made. Recall that Marble Madness was a huge success for Atari, but the much more difficult and super rare Marble Madness II was a commercial failure and it was fiendishly hard. I sucked at both games.

---

Those were both Fun Games... I'm pretty sure Space Ace made money though?
I know they had a budget of 2.5 Million to create the game.
I know that it was a commercial success in North America but nowhere near the success of Dragon's Lair.
A bit of bad timing as it came out during the crash of the Video Game Rooms.
I can't find any numbers on profit but they did release versions to home gaming so you know it made some dough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

I should also add that the group of pros that caused the high quality (but, as I just learned, revenue dud) Space Ace game to get made, were probably the same sort that caused Atari's Marble Madness II to get made. Recall that Marble Madness was a huge success for Atari, but the much more difficult and super rare Marble Madness II was a commercial failure and it was fiendishly hard. I sucked at both games.

---

Those were both Fun Games... I'm pretty sure Space Ace made money though?
I know they had a budget of 2.5 Million to create the game.
I know that it was a commercial success in North America but nowhere near the success of Dragon's Lair.
A bit of bad timing as it came out during the crash of the Video Game Rooms.
I can't find any numbers on profit but they did release versions to home gaming so you know it made some dough.

---

What is certain is that it was a high quality game just like the other two. And we both saw it in different arcades so distribution wasn't a problem. So maybe it made a profit. However Marble Madness II is a different story - very few were made and it was insanely difficult (I played it at an arcade/pinball show - never saw it on location). Atari could not have made money on it.

Now you had mentioned how the pros back then were killing it with very little footage. I can remember seeing all sorts of crazy shit back then. Some guys would hunt the Pterodactyls in Joust instead of playing it the regular way. Then you had super mother fuckers who would let the whole Defender planet turn mutant and then hunt the saucers. Other fuckers would get into the super far levels of Berzerk and Frenzy. People getting through the invisible levels of Tempest, Robotron superstars getting through the ultra-crowded levels and so on. No social media clips of this and no fanfare. All in a day's work.

I forgot to answer your Afterburner question. Yes I agree that they had pretty much figured out they had a hit on their hands with the 1st one. So with the whole programming team in tact, I suppose they just let the momentum carry them into the second one right after.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

What is certain is that it was a high quality game just like the other two. And we both saw it in different arcades so distribution wasn't a problem. So maybe it made a profit. However Marble Madness II is a different story - very few were made and it was insanely difficult (I played it at an arcade/pinball show - never saw it on location). Atari could not have made money on it.

Now you had mentioned how the pros back then were killing it with very little footage. I can remember seeing all sorts of crazy shit back then. Some guys would hunt the Pterodactyls in Joust instead of playing it the regular way. Then you had super mother fuckers who would let the whole Defender planet turn mutant and then hunt the saucers. Other fuckers would get into the super far levels of Berzerk and Frenzy. People getting through the invisible levels of Tempest, Robotron superstars getting through the ultra-crowded levels and so on. No social media clips of this and no fanfare. All in a day's work.

I forgot to answer your Afterburner question. Yes I agree that they had pretty much figured out they had a hit on their hands with the 1st one. So with the whole programming team in tact, I suppose they just let the momentum carry them into the second one right after.

---

Stern Goes Berzerk!
Robotron 2084!!
Defender!!!

You are geeking me out!!
Those were great days.

I would play Phoenix and get smashed but I watched a couple players who could crush that game on one quarter.
I want to go back to 1980 and run through this life again.
No changes.
Just a replay.
Thanks.

2 Years ago Daz Cole made this post about Robotron 2084.
Video Games and Arcades were awesome!
Players taping up there fingers was a real thing!!
Track and Field anyone... Hello!
I still miss that time period.
Williams was the Shit!!

Insert Coins made a go of it for four years at Downtown Las Vegas.
I remember when they opened and me and my pal was leaving the El Cortel.
Of course I went immediately back to the El Cortel and bought a couple rolls of quarters.
That place had a very close 80's vibe or at least the arcade area.
Not the bar and lounge area where you could rent home consoles.
Anyways... still a great place to pop in and out of since I was downtown anyways.
I knew it would never last but surprised it made it as long as it did.

The intro to Robotron 2084 is amazing and I like the fact that you have to read it.
And all those flashing, changing colors!
Those guys knew what they were doing.

I was really bad at Robotron but it didn't stop me from begging my dad for quarters while he drank beer at the corner bar.
In those days, they didn't care if you brought your child into the bar with you lol.

Daz Cole, 2 years ago
I spent a whole summer getting good at this until I could 'clock' it which means after 9,999,975 the score would roll over to zero. Also after Wave 255 it would go back to the very first screen. I got so good that I would have a crowd watching me but then the arcade manager would switch the machine off, and increase the difficulty setting which made me get better and better. It got so I needed to tape my fingers up because I got blisters on my 2nd fingers and then the skin would come off! MAME is great to play it again years later but it's not the same without those large joysticks! Happy memories (I'm over 50 now)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l800GL6NQPY

You get me geeked up and I start learning.
Turns out that Robotron 2084 was based on Orwell's 1984.
Fun Fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbLRmD2rGew