Maintaining 7 Stars Ratings at Caesars Total Rewards

Those of us who have reached the 7 Stars tier with Caesars Total Rewards know that there are various worthwhile benefits which come with the tier score. Hopefully, it doesn't cost you too much in casino losses to get the 7 Stars rank.

There have been various threads about what it "costs" to reach 7 Stars depending on the games you play -- most notably video poker where the games have theoretical returns that are known.

There have also been comments about the best way to maintain your 7 Stars rating.

Forum member Dan Druff has suggested playing every other year to maintain 7 Stars.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

You can earn Seven Stars just once every TWO years (do it January 1-March 31), and you will still have uninterrupted Seven Stars benefits for only half the play required.

That's why I haven't played in 2014.

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I've been thinking about this strategy ever since Dan mentioned it, and I've just got to ask Dan this:

Isn't there a gap in your 7 Stars "coverage" when you do this? If you made 7 Stars in 2013 and don't play at all in 2014, you will have to play a lot and very quickly in 2015 so that your 7 Stars doesn't expire on March 31 2015. In fact, would have to put through in January, February and March $1.5-million of coin-in on video poker. Are you prepared to play so much in such a short period of time?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Those of us who have reached the 7 Stars tier with Caesars Total Rewards know that there are various worthwhile benefits which come with the tier score. Hopefully, it doesn't cost you too much in casino losses to get the 7 Stars rank.

There have been various threads about what it "costs" to reach 7 Stars depending on the games you play -- most notably video poker where the games have theoretical returns that are known.

There have also been comments about the best way to maintain your 7 Stars rating.

Forum member Dan Druff has suggested playing every other year to maintain 7 Stars.



I've been thinking about this strategy ever since Dan mentioned it, and I've just got to ask Dan this:

Isn't there a gap in your 7 Stars "coverage" when you do this? If you made 7 Stars in 2013 and don't play at all in 2014, you will have to play a lot and very quickly in 2015 so that your 7 Stars doesn't expire on March 31 2015. In fact, would have to put through in January, February and March $1.5-million of coin-in on video poker. Are you prepared to play so much in such a short period of time?

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Yes, it's a lot of coin-in, but I will do it.

However, it's just ten sessions of 5,000 tiers each, so it will really only take me 10 days' worth of play.

The question is where I am going to put in this play. Tahoe is far (though I can combine it with skiing in those months), and Rincon's best game is Aces and Faces, which has higher variance than JoB.

Hopefully I'll finally hit a royal.

Question: does it make a difference if you put on all those points in three months (Jan, Feb, March) or if you did it spread out during all of 2014 ??

The only full pay JoB machines in the western US are at Reno, Tahoe, and Ak-Chin. All of those are over 450 miles from where I am.

There is the 99.26% Aces and Faces at Rincon, which is much closer. Laughlin has 99.17% bonus, but no point to play that.

Nothing in Vegas is playable at $10 per tier credit.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Question: does it make a difference if you put on all those points in three months (Jan, Feb, March) or if you did it spread out during all of 2014 ??

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If I don't do it by March 31, I will temporarily lose Seven Stars.

No offense Dan but you make it all too hard and unpleasant for yourself. Trust me--whatever status you feel 7 Stars gives you doesn't mean a thing. And without a royal, the cost may be too much. Just doesn't seem worth the time and aggravation to me. I like the knowledge of the system that you bring but it just seems like a burden to me.

I barely maintain diamond anymore (for many years now) from local play. Yet I can go to any Caesars property anywhere and get a free room and all my meals. Sometimes they'll buy me a show; sometimes I pay. But there is no stress and no pressure to gamble any more than I want. They do not, of course, reimburse my air fare anymore. I really don't care about most of the other stuff they give away. My free play offers and shopping sprees are not that much less than they were when I was a whale, and I rarely used them anyway as my schedule has always been tight.

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Originally Posted by regnis

No offense Dan but you make it all too hard and unpleasant for yourself. Trust me--whatever status you feel 7 Stars gives you doesn't mean a thing. And without a royal, the cost may be too much. Just doesn't seem worth the time and aggravation to me. I like the knowledge of the system that you bring but it just seems like a burden to me.

I barely maintain diamond anymore (for many years now) from local play. Yet I can go to any Caesars property anywhere and get a free room and all my meals. Sometimes they'll buy me a show; sometimes I pay. But there is no stress and no pressure to gamble any more than I want. They do not, of course, reimburse my air fare anymore. I really don't care about most of the other stuff they give away. My free play offers and shopping sprees are not that much less than they were when I was a whale, and I rarely used them anyway as my schedule has always been tight.

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This is a good post to read and take in. I'm Seven Stars, totally by accident, for the first time in my life right now, and for what I use it for it's really no more worthwhile than diamond. But there are multiple other disturbing points in Dan's justifications.

First, his love of 9/6 JoB. That's a loser's game with no doubt, because it's mainly in casinos to get players to do exactly what he is doing: play for the points. You cannot and will not win on it unless you hit multiple royals. In vp, varience is the name of the game, and if you want to stop complaining about losing you cannot be afraid of it.

Next, he uses the ultra-meaningless AP word "playable". Everything is "playable". You just have to know what you're doing and have a plan--other than to get to some glorified slot club status, that is. Dan, you can either continue to keep putting your son's college education into the poker machines, or choose a better way.

Then there's the concern about this "gap" whereby there may not be that special Seven Stars "status" for a few months if play doesn't occur. While that may cause some people ulcers, I see it as +EV....as a few months of not worrying, not complaining about being shorted or dissed, and a break to take a step back and look at the overall situation. A calm river causes reflection.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

This is a good post to read and take in. I'm Seven Stars, totally by accident, for the first time in my life right now, and for what I use it for it's really no more worthwhile than diamond. But there are multiple other disturbing points in Dan's justifications.

First, his love of 9/6 JoB. That's a loser's game with no doubt, because it's mainly in casinos to get players to do exactly what he is doing: play for the points. You cannot and will not win on it unless you hit multiple royals. In vp, varience is the name of the game, and if you want to stop complaining about losing you cannot be afraid of it.

Next, he uses the ultra-meaningless AP word "playable". Everything is "playable". You just have to know what you're doing and have a plan--other than to get to some glorified slot club status, that is. Dan, you can either continue to keep putting your son's college education into the poker machines, or choose a better way.

Then there's the concern about this "gap" whereby there may not be that special Seven Stars "status" for a few months if play doesn't occur. While that may cause some people ulcers, I see it as +EV....as a few months of not worrying, not complaining about being shorted or dissed, and a break to take a step back and look at the overall situation. A calm river causes reflection.

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I am only concerned about the "gap" because it would then cost me money to stay at CET properties while re-earning Seven Stars.

Oh, and I might miss out on being able to get the best upgrades on my cruise for that year. Last year, I found a "free upgrades" promotion running on Norwegian during the first week of April. I used that to upgrade my oceanview Seven Stars room to a balcony (very big upgrade for Alaska), and it was free to do so. They did not run that promotion again before I ended up cruising, and I would have missed it if I wasn't Seven Stars on April 1 (the first day you are able to start booking upcoming cruises with the Seven Stars benefit).

I just got back from that cruise on August 12, and it was very nice.

You are criticizing 9/6 JoB. Why? How is it a "loser's game", unless you're comparing it to the few remaining 100%+ VP machines around town? And I doubt that's what you're comparing, because I see your reports of playing awful machines like 7-5 bonus.

I have stopped engaging your silly arguments that you can somehow defy mathematics and regularly beat poor-paying machines, but I still laugh at your nonsense when you tell people "just learn to win" and other BS revolving around your system which defies all logic.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Yes, it's a lot of coin-in, but I will do it.

However, it's just ten sessions of 5,000 tiers each, so it will really only take me 10 days' worth of play.

The question is where I am going to put in this play. Tahoe is far (though I can combine it with skiing in those months), and Rincon's best game is Aces and Faces, which has higher variance than JoB.

Hopefully I'll finally hit a royal.

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I'm confused about this. How do you achieve Seven Stars with only 10 sessions at 5,000 tiers each (50,000 tier points total) when the requirement appears to be 150,000 tier points?

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Originally Posted by Count Room

I'm confused about this. How do you achieve Seven Stars with only 10 sessions at 5,000 tiers each (50,000 tier points total) when the requirement appears to be 150,000 tier points?

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Each 5000 point session gets a 10,000 point bonus.

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Originally Posted by Count Room

I'm confused about this. How do you achieve Seven Stars with only 10 sessions at 5,000 tiers each (50,000 tier points total) when the requirement appears to be 150,000 tier points?

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You get 10,000 bonus tier points for running 5,000 tiers of play in a Caesars day (usually 6:00am-5:59am).

This actually doesn't require that much of a time investment, as you can do it in two 2 day trips and one 3 day trip.

Here is an example:

January 7: Show up 9pm, play 2000 hands of $5 per credit VP, which will take about 4-5 hours, which will earn 5,000 base tiers and 10,000 bonus tiers. Go to sleep at hotel.
January 8: Wake up whenever. Play 2000 hands again at some point during the day. Go to sleep at hotel.
January 9: Wake up in morning. Play 2000 hands again. Leave in early afternoon to go home.
Total tiers earned = 45,000
Average total expected loss at 9/6 Jacks or Better: $690
Total hours at property: About 40

February 4: Show up 9pm, play 2000 hands of $5 per credit VP, which will take about 4-5 hours, which will earn 5,000 base tiers and 10,000 bonus tiers. Go to sleep at hotel.
February 5: Wake up whenever. Play 2000 hands again at some point during the day. Go to sleep at hotel.
February 6: Wake up in morning. Play 2000 hands again. Leave in early afternoon to go home.
Total tiers earned = 45,000
Average total expected loss at 9/6 Jacks or Better: $690
Total hours at property: About 40

March 1: Show up 9pm, play 2000 hands of $5 per credit VP, which will take about 4-5 hours, which will earn 5,000 base tiers and 10,000 bonus tiers. Go to sleep at hotel.
March 2: Wake up whenever. Play 2000 hands again at some point during the day. Go to sleep at hotel.
March 3: Wake up whenever. Play 2000 hands again at some point during the day. Go to sleep at hotel.
March 4: Wake up in morning. Play 2000 hands again. Leave in early afternoon to go home.
Total tiers earned = 60,000
Average total expected loss at 9/6 Jacks or Better: $920
Total hours at property: About 64

So here you can go about once per month, with one 2-day trip and one 3-day trip, and walk out with Seven Stars earned for the next TWO years, at an expected loss of $2300.

Of course, that's EXPECTED loss, but there's a lot of variance.

You will be about 50-50 to hit a royal. If you do hit one royal, you will be expected to WIN $7700 overall. If you hit two royals, you will be expected to WIN about $27700 overall. If you hit zero royals, you will be expected to LOSE $12300.

So the one real downside to this is that you will lose $12,300 on average if you don't hit a royal, and it can even be worse if you don't hit a royal AND don't run well in general.

The upside is that if you DO hit a royal, you have a very high chance to finish ahead for the whole thing.

Dan, you need to understand that you do not really understand the game of vp, and while you greatly understand the slot card & comp game, you're chasing the whole thing running backwards. And this is the reason you cannot win, and from your plethora of posts I am hardly convinced you even know how to play even the simplest of games, job, perfectly. Thus, I opine, and maybe it will help you in the future.

9/6 Jacks or Better is a loser's game because, just as I said, you REQUIRE multiple royals at the very least to be ahead in any year that you foolishly chase slot card status and base your complete approach on silly theory. You shy away from variance by claiming the pay table is ".4% less" or some other unqualified remark, when you know higher variance games is what people who consistently win play. Plus the game is more boring than an Obama self-righteous lecture, and you've turned the whole gambling thing into a quest on how to get back at CET for taking all your money (and actually, giving it directly to me if you want to bring it down into harsh reality). And you actually go in EXPECTING to lose for the year!, which in and of itself is truly amazing.

So wise up and listen.

I would rather pay for a room than have to play JOB--but that's just me. I'd also rather kill myself than play JOB.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

So here you can go about once per month, with one 2-day trip and one 3-day trip, and walk out with Seven Stars earned for the next TWO years, at an expected loss of $2300.

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I guess this assumes you like playing this much VP.

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Originally Posted by regnis

I would rather pay for a room than have to play JOB--but that's just me. I'd also rather kill myself than play JOB.

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Dear Heavenly Father, when it's time to take the good soul of regnis, please find a place for him away from Jacks or Better machines in the big casino in the sky.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

9/6 Jacks or Better is a loser's game because, just as I said, you REQUIRE multiple royals at the very least to be ahead in any year

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I don't play Jacks or Better because you want to pull your hair out when you start getting hands like quad aces or quad deuces. I remember when Caesars had 9/6 Jacks about eight years ago and I was playing it because it was a "better game" and in one session I got multiple quad aces and multiple quad 2s, 3s, 4s and I felt sick. As you know they all paid 125 coins.

About two years ago I was at Rincon when they still had 9/6 Jacks and I sat down at a machine next to my son -- and he was playing Jacks so I played Jacks -- and it happened again: quad aces and 2s and 3s and 4s.

NEVER AGAIN.

However, with that said, if you are chasing royals you probably are more likely to hit royals playing Jacks or Better than any other game.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I don't play Jacks or Better because you want to pull your hair out when you start getting hands like quad aces or quad deuces. I remember when Caesars had 9/6 Jacks about eight years ago and I was playing it because it was a "better game" and in one session I got multiple quad aces and multiple quad 2s, 3s, 4s and I felt sick. As you know they all paid 125 coins.

About two years ago I was at Rincon when they still had 9/6 Jacks and I sat down at a machine next to my son -- and he was playing Jacks so I played Jacks -- and it happened again: quad aces and 2s and 3s and 4s.

NEVER AGAIN.

However, with that said, if you are chasing royals you probably are more likely to hit royals playing Jacks or Better than any other game.

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I get what you are saying.

I also got AAAA at a JoB game last year and was frustrated about it (especially since it was a short session running freeplay!)

But I have had too many brutal sessions at bonus poker variants where I lose too much money due to repeated underpayment on full houses and flushes, and then find myself counting on more quads to bail me out (which don't always come).

Or, simply put, there is less variance at 9/6 JoB, because you are less dependent upon quads-or-better in order to avoid losing a lot of money.

I agree that it's more boring to play JoB, but I think the prospect of hitting a $20k royal will be enough to keep me from falling asleep.

I've had sessions playing 8/5 Bonus or Aces and Faces when I was lucky to get one full house. That's why I am just as happy on 7/5 machines. Sorry math guys.

However I will play 8/5 over 7/5 when available.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I've had sessions playing 8/5 Bonus or Aces and Faces when I was lucky to get one full house. That's why I am just as happy on 7/5 machines. Sorry math guys.

However I will play 8/5 over 7/5 when available.

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I'm sure you've also had long sessions where you hit many full houses and flushes, but don't hit quads or better.

Or perhaps you've had sessions where you set a stop-loss of a certain amount, and the extra money you would have won in the additional flush/full house payout would have been the credits that would have hit something big. So those extra payouts also give you "free hands" when you are playing to a stop-loss point.

This disdain for good flush/full house paytables is the reason we are seeing such a degradation with every passing year. Even knowledgeable VP players like Alan find ways to reason to themselves that paytables aren't so important.

Dan I think paytables are important but 7/5 vs 8/5 won't break me. Playing 9/6 Jacks eliminates the big payoff quads.