Caesars basically confirms that new "Horseshoe" branding of Bally's is bullshit, and is in name only

Caesars (then Harrah's) received the Horseshoe brand from their 2004 purchase of Binion's Horseshoe downtown.

They renamed various properties around the country "Horseshoe", and decided it was wise to keep up certain traditions of the Horseshoe brand at these properties. Among them were higher limits and 100x odds on craps. Even in their propaganda hold music when you call any Caesars property, they brag, "At Horseshoe, our motto is to 'make it right for the gambler.'"

While the non-Nevada Horseshoe properties were not as gambler-friendly as the original Binion's Horseshoe of old, I at least gave them credit for maintaining higher limits and higher odds on craps than most of their other properties nationwide.

However, as I mentioned, there was no Horseshoe in Nevada. That brand has been missing from the state ever since the 2004 purchase, where the new buyer had to simply call the property "Binion's", as Caesars/Harrah's now owned the Horseshoe brand, and let it sit dormant in that market.

As reported before, Bally's Las Vegas is becoming Horseshoe. This is somewhat confusing, as it seems Tropicana down the street might become Bally's at this point (because it's owned by The Bally Corporation), so you will have a non-downtown Horseshoe and a Bally's which is different from the Bally's known for 35+ years.

Caesars is putting some money into renovating the outside and inside of Bally's, in order to make it correspond with the new brand. But is anything else changing?

John Mehaffey asked a very good question -- will the 100x Craps remain? After all, that's one of the signatures of the modern Horseshoe brand.

https://twitter.com/John_Mehaffey/st...46829393080320


Dumb. So the branding is in name only. Heaven forbid they make this exception to keep with the spirit of the brand, and allow a single 0 EV bet to be made on property.

I wish they'd also adopt the old Binion's Horseshoe policy of allowing a basically unlimited limit for your first bet: we need more stories like the suitcase guy.

https://www.casinocitytimes.com/mark...case-man-25379

I'm curious what would have happened had Becky not taken over from Jack and the family still owned the original Horseshoe and WSOP.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

I'm curious what would have happened had Becky not taken over from Jack and the family still owned the original Horseshoe and WSOP.

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The WSOP would be a fraction of what it is today. While I criticize Caesars plenty, they've done a tremendous job marketing the WSOP and turning it into something huge. It's also beloved by both pros and amateurs, and even a yearly dose of Caesars operational fail can't ruin that.

Still, I do have some issues with the way they run WSOP. Still too much nickel and diming (the food situation this year was surprisingly bad, despite the better venue of Bally's/Paris), and they have way too many 3-figure buyin events. There's also too many rebuys allowed, which perverts the entire concept of tournament poker. At the same time, despite 90+ events each year, there's a strange omission of events which would be popular, such as $1500 Short Deck, $1500 Limit Holdem Shootout, and $1000/$1500 Big O. Why they don't spread these among their 7 weeks of events, I have no idea.

Wsop is about marketing now. Poker has taken a back seat.

Remember when Downtown had the $1 million display? It was a real $1 million.
They now have a similar display at BallysHorse. A $1 million of fake $10,000 bills, all with the same serial number. CET is so classy
( insert Rob Zinger joke here ).

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Still, I do have some issues with the way they run WSOP.

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I don’t believe, other than yourself and the Republican Party, that there’s anything you don’t have issues with. Tried to quote just Druff…formatting fail.

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Originally Posted by mcap

I don’t believe, other than yourself and the Republican Party, that there’s anything you don’t have issues with. Tried to quote just Druff…formatting fail.

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Your prejudice, racism, bigotry and hatred towards the Republican Party is showing.
You act as if the Democrats are a superior race.
I thought you were against hate!?
You are such a phony.

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Originally Posted by jpfromla

Remember when Downtown had the $1 million display? It was a real $1 million.
They now have a similar display at BallysHorse. A $1 million of fake $10,000 bills, all with the same serial number. CET is so classy
( insert Rob Zinger joke here ).

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And 1 million isn't all that much. (for me it surely is - in the grand scheme of things - no)

The guys that run these corps/joints are such jackasses. Pay someone 100k to make a helluva display and put it right in the rear center of the casino and call it a day. Let it sit there until the casino shuts down or they need the dough to pay people out then go rent the jackhammer.

Executives are such middling shit. Sure they're relatively quite bright but these guys don't get there by doing cool stuff, they get there by knowing how to suck the blood out of every fucking nickel they see on the floor. Whether their shit MBA or sucking their superiors. Then comes along al the life-ploppies who eat it all up like it ain't no thing.

Next stage? The execs start eyeing the pennies.

So sick of corporations ruining anything with personality in addition to the ecosystems/society/civilization collapsing.

Oh did I mention I'm running as bad as ever in my life but that doesn't really mean anything compared to the shit mentioned above.

All part of the same sick system tho.

Enjoy

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Originally Posted by monet

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Originally Posted by mcap

I don’t believe, other than yourself and the Republican Party, that there’s anything you don’t have issues with. Tried to quote just Druff…formatting fail.

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Your prejudice, racism, bigotry and hatred towards the Republican Party is showing.
You act as if the Democrats are a superior race.
I thought you were against hate!?
You are such a phony.

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Yeah, well your vulva is showing.

So there, take that.

Wow Todd, no 100x craps for you? Where will you go now?

Odds on craps only increase variance whichis bad. It doesn't affect your win/loss

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Odds on craps only increase variance whichis bad. It doesn't affect your win/loss

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Misleading.

I only saw a few well heeled bettors take advantage of 100X odds back when CR offered it; how common is it these days to see people take full advantage of it at the casinos which offer it?

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I only saw a few well heeled bettors take advantage of 100X odds back when CR offered it; how common is it these days to see people take full advantage of it at the casinos which offer it?

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Probably too easy for croupiers/whatever to fuck it up. The negative outweighs the positive. Customers rarely going to miss being shorted but oh they'll miss being overpaid.

I don't remember the Horseshoe being known for this. I barely remember Horseshoe but I was there on finals days when they had shutdow most of the casino due to some funding thing and only poker room + cage was in operation. Played O8 3/6 and had a like 5 way allin. First time I'd ever seen such a thing. The dealer putting the side pots in front of everyone. A rack maybe 2 on the table. I wanted to take a picture of it but it predated smartphones. I do remember casino royale though. I believe they had a limit on the odds payout though, so you could possibly screw yourself some way by not getting paid the proper amount if you bet too much? Hard to imagine that being the case but at least that is what I remember.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Odds on craps only increase variance whichis bad. It doesn't affect your win/loss

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Misleading.

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It's truthful. Read CAA.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Odds on craps only increase variance whichis bad. It doesn't affect your win/loss

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Misleading.

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It's truthful. Read CAA.

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You are assuming people bet the same amount on pass/don't pass regardless of how much odds they take.

When Caesar's bought Binion's they announced they wouldn't be there long. They bought it just to get the Horseshoe brand name and the WSOP.

Slight correction. It was Harrahs that bought Horseshoe, WSOP, and Caesars.

The fact that 100x odds doesn't get used that often by patrons is an even better reason to keep it. It's something that looks good, reminds people of the Horseshoe of old, and yet costs them little, even from a variance standpoint.

accountingquestion is correct. The bean counters have sucked the life out of Vegas. Everything has to be a profit center now. There's no such thing as a loss leader anymore. Budget food is mostly history. Cheap shows are mostly history. Free parking is mostly history.

It didn't have to be this way. We could have had the beautiful, modern casinos and all of their offerings, while still maintaining a lot of the old charm and budget deals. For example, would it kill every hotel to have one low-end coffee shop where the food is fairly cheap? That's not going to kill their fine dining offerings, and it will leave people feeling less exploited when they don't have to pay $20 for bacon and eggs in the morning.

And then there's the games... triple-zero roulette, 6:5 blackjack... shameful.

I'm not one of those guys who always romanticizes the old days. Vegas of the '60s-'80s was a dangerous place, and being an AP back then could get you buried in the desert, rather than just escorted out. And I don't miss tipping some leech at the door of a show in order to get a good seat, nor do I miss the ever-present cigarette smoke in the entire joint.

I guess what really annoys me about modern Vegas is the attempt to gain business based upon past nostalgia, while at the same time extracting everything good about what was nostalgic about the place. Don't call your casino "Horseshoe" if you're going to strip it of all the things people liked about Binion's Horseshoe -- the cheap food, the 100x odds craps, the high spread table limits, etc. Dressing it up with nostalgic imagery means nothing if you're going to run the place exactly like you did Bally's.

Reminds me of how Whirlpool bought the Maytag brand, then turned it into shit, yet they still sell Maytag washer/dryers as if they're as reliable as before. Gordon Jump is turning over in his grave.