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KJ, I'm "out of my element" but would like to hear your thoughts on facial recognition viz. OSN database.
Do major / any casinos scan the faces of all incoming patrons and / or players at BJ tables via facial recognition?
If so, what database would they be trying to match them to?
Wouldn't they have an incentive to implement a program that compares the image to the image from OSN?
That would be brutal, especially if it is done automatically and if a match is found an alarm is given.
I have a lot of questions about this.
1) You seem to be especially concerned about your identity being known -- not just among casino personnel, but also among forum members. Wouldn't a lawsuit make your identity easy to deduce? If so, why would you post it here and bring our attention to it?
2) The broken arm is the most sensational part of this case. You say that it broke when they forced you into a chair. Can you elaborate more? Why weren't you given medical assistance immediately? I broke my arm in 1989, and it was very painful, especially in the time that followed, which was much worse than the break itself. Where did the arm break, and was it a full break, or just a fracture? I also had a fracture and it wasn't nearly as bad as the break.
3) Why did you not call your attorney immediately? Why did you wait until "the next morning"?
I am not doubting your story, just trying to understand here.
I have never been backroomed either, though I have gotten fairly close twice. About 20 years ago, a casino had security surround me with about 5 guards, right after the cashout, and demand my ID. This was in Vegas. I refused to give my ID, and when they asked why, my response was, "Because it's my right not to." The manager, who was female, looked like she was considering backrooming me, but ultimately settled upon just 86ing me. I made sure to keep my hands at my side the entire time, so nobody could attack me and claim self defense. I was led out, and the incident was over.
The other time was more recently at an Indian casino. I was confronted by security when redeeming freeplay on my own card, accused of multi-carding. I told them I was on my own card, and had no other cards with me. They demanded ID. I actually gave it because this was an Indian casino where I had no rights, and I had my girlfriend and kid waiting in the car for what was supposed to be a quick redemption of freeplay, on the way elsewhere! They then demanded I sign that I would never return, and that I would be arrested if I did. Again, I didn't have to do this, but I agreed. I also agreed to remove my hat for a better picture of me. Since I planned never to return anyway, this wasn't a huge deal. Again, in Vegas I wouldn't have agreed to any of this, but I didn't want to be detained for 8 hours while my family sat in the car in the middle of nowhere. With that, they actually let me cash out my ticket, and I left the property. I felt a huge relief as soon as I stepped out the door of that casino.
For those questioning why kewlJ "let them backroom him", it's not that simple. Ideally you will just walk out the door, but with security surrounding you and accusing you of cheating in some way, this could be considered an attempt to escape, and can justify physical force to detain you. I would refuse a backrooming and be loud about it if necessary, but I would not physically attempt to get away from them.
1). Absolutely a lawsuit would make my identity easy to deduce. That is the major reason I have decided against it. Dan Druff, I know you don't read everything on this forum. Are you aware that I was doxed in late 2021, not so much on this forum, but at GF, that lead to a brand new entry into the databases complete with information they previously didn't have? I know that the entry in OSN came from the doxed information because there was one piece of information that was incorrect that showed up both places, which served as a marker. Because of that incident, I spent much of last year, "laying low", playing less than 50% EV-wise of my average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
So the last thing I want right now is another period where I have to lay low for a while for things to cool down. And if I pursued a law suit, that period could be several years rather than months. Now that I have decided not to pursue legal action, I just felt like I could share some of this experience as a reminder to other players that while thing have gotten much better in the back-rooming/illegal detention area, we are still dealing with this same freaking industry that doesn't play fair or by the rules and laws.
2. My break was not a total break meaning the broken bones did not detached from each other. It was a fracture. And yes it did hurt. That is why I almost immediately said I think you broke my arm for which the supervisor didn't seem to care.
3. This happened early evening. By the time I got home after the hospital and filling a police report it was 10pm. I have an emergency contact number but just didn't see the need to call the attorney at 10pm for something that could wait until morning. All that really needs to happen in the first few days is the attorney make a formal request that the casino preserve the video evidence. The next morning was fine for that.
I agree with everything you wrote here with the exception of the "loud" part. Getting loud and yelling only gets testosterone flowing and escalates things. You really want to de-escalate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
For people like AccountinQuestion asking "how they illegally detained me"? When you are surrounded by security and management, who have the authority to detain a person (when a crime is committed), and one of them has hold of your arm....you are detained. If you try to fight them off and run away, you are opening up a whole other can of worms and possibilities.
And if you have actually done nothing wrong or illegal, such a detention is illegal and an abuse of power.
Security has a trick of blocking the way to the exit. There is no room to go around them and if you try to push by them they will call it assault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Which Indian casino?
I have had a couple different instances (not recently though) where I saw security and suits gathering like a storm on the horizon and quickly exited the game and weaved my way through rows of slot machines to an exit. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I didn't see this one coming though until they were on me. I will call it complacency or just flat out not being as alert as I should have been. :(
I am not aware of any issues MrV. And I say that on the same day that I just shared a backroom incident...so :D. Seriously I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
When casinos in Vegas started using facial recognition, about 8 years ago, it reportedly wasn't very good or accurate. I have heard it has gotten better. But the surveillance systems in casinos featuring camera in the ceiling aren't the ideal situation. My understanding is a straight away shot works much better.
You would hope that top priority would be connecting to criminal and terrorist type databases. But with this industry, probably not.
I will be worried when I start seeing more and more backoffs with no explanation, and to date, this latest back-rooming incident aside, I have not seen that, nor has my brother who plays even more than I have the past couple years, nor have I heard anything like that from other players I talk to. As a matter of fact, for me personally, 2022 was the first year I had no backoffs, if I am not mistaken. I did play less, but still zero incidences.
The airport here in Vegas started using facial recognition several years back and I have read they have had some success IDing some criminals and undesirables.
I had it happen to me only once. I was dragged rather forcefully and like kj thrown into a chair. I was not knowledgeable about my rights as i was not an AP or a pro and this was many years ago. As they started grilling me the only thing i could think to do was fake a heart attack and slump out of the chair to the ground. They bought it and i was taken out on a stretcher to an ambulance and to a hospital.
I called the gm who i knew very well and he told me i couldnt play craps there anynore.
Well being detained can be many things. When dealing with cops it has a specific legal definition. Ok, so the guy grabbed your arm and you did nothing but went to the backroom with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
What do you think pissed off the security guard so much he threw you into the chair?
I don't think getting loud necessarily escalates thing. THere is loud directed at them and loud directed at other patrons. (help! help!) Of course it is semi-random how they respond etc.
Druff's story is also interesting. I'd love to know what sort of gambling he did to generate the freeplay. Had he played freeplay there recently leading up to this?
I thought we seen all your attention-grabbing tricks in the past but this one takes the cake so far.
Kewlj, if you don't want to sue, at least make the Casino Staff pay your medical bills for fracturing your arm. You have them throwing you roughly into a chair which caused you to fracture your arm. You seem to have a solid case for at least getting your medical bills paid by the Casino Staff who attacked you(Throwing someone into a chair is physical assault, especially someone who wasn't even resisting!)
Guards better not try the exit block trick on Ozzy - he could throw them out of the way like rag dolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
I don't know anyone that's ever had anything (other than a finger) fractured(That's huge for you monetarily). If you have medical records of a fracture and everything went down how you explained, you're a fool not to sue. There's no reason to go to the press or make it super public. This isn't just a personal library case etc. This is a personal injury case as well.
I don't know why you think suing would cost you more EV than you could earn. The damage is done, they have whatever information they need and they are going to do whatever they are going to do regardless if you sue or not. You act like it either continue to play Black Jack and refuse to sue, or sue and never play Black Jack.
What's the EV of a boosted bankroll?
You don't know how long it would take they might just be willing to settle without much fight. They have to know they are totally fucked, given the evidence and circumstances.
You're basically giving them a free pass with practically the same consequences either way.
Something doesn't smell right.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplayGuards better not try the exit block trick on Ozzy - he could throw them out of the way like rag dolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
Attention seeking Kew is at it again. There is something foul smelling and amiss about this whole scenario. I agree with AlexW. If this went down anywhere near the way you described, you're in for a decent payday in a relatively small period of time. No brainer IF you're telling the whole truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Something doesn't smell right because kew is getting caught in yet another stupid, not-well-crafted lie again. There is something seriously wrong with him, as if everyone doesn't already know.
Kew drew this one up for one reason only: he saw that I had time to post again, that didn't sit right with him, so he needed to do something about it in order to get the attention meter back over to favoring him.
There's more holes in this sensational story than when he lied about his own death. And since kew likes to draw strength from Dan's personal beliefs about others, let's see if he can figure out that Dan's post here screams "I DON'T BELIEVE A WORD YOU'VE SAID".
Kew never says why he was supposedly "taken into the back room" nor does he explain why he was shoved into a chair there supposedly "fracturing his arm". So he "took an ambulance", "filed a police report" and "met with his speed-dial pal Bob Nersesian"....all while South Point simply and very quickly handed over the "video evidence" out of the kindness of their heart without a subpoena, and while kew was deciding not to pursue suing?
Kew didn't think this lie out very well. Police reports are public records. And since as kew says all the time "everybody knows his real name" we could expect to see this report right here in short order.
Kew claims to be an "advantage player". Simply said, anyone who chooses that type of life does not limit it to advantage gambling. EVERYTHING these people do in life is from the point of an advantage. A "fractured arm" caused by a casino tough guy followed up by a ride to the hospital in an ambulance WITH A GAY FAIRY AS THE VICTIM!? Tell me he--the penultimate victim across the board--wouldn't JUMP at the chance to make a bundle in a lawsuit over this like white on rice.
So why isn't he suing--even when his "good friend Nersesian" is already on this like Inspector Gadget? I mean, who or what gay man runs to an attorney after taking an ambulance for a broken arm :) just to have a good talk?
Maybe now, the last few of you who have always wanted to believe this phony when all he does is lie and concoct things about himself and those who have him perfectly pegged, will see the light.
I love the smell of urine in the morning.
Hey Ron is back! :D That smell of urine in the morning is just your diaper Singer. Hopefully for your sake one of your kids babysitting you up in S.D. will be in to change it soon.
Rob and his new bestie Mdog have been pulling their hair out over at GF for the last 24 hours, throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the wall to see if anything sticks. Both have even quoted seedvalue and his ridiculous nonsense. That is how desperate they are. :D I told Rob that I wouldn't respond at that forum as there is just no body there worth a damn. Rob, Mdawg, and a couple other baccarat system players, with all the nonsense that goes with baccarat system players.
One baccarat knucklehead from Australia presumed to tell me how blackjack and Las Vegas works, and then stated he has never played blackjack, never been to Las Vegas and couldn't even find Las Vegas on a Map of the U.S. when he tried. That is what you are dealing with over there, plus of course Robbie and Mdoggie. So I announced I would not respond to any one of them over there and low and behold here is Rob. 4th time he has followed me there, crawled back here when I stopped paying attention to him, followed me there again, and now crawled back here again. Who is it that owns who Rob? :confused:
THAT in itself makes sharing this story, which I was on the fence about worth it 100 times over. :cool:
I am not going to spend a second day on this. I shared the experience and my decision not to pursue anything. I have my reasons. For the last 3 years, things have not been super easy as far as my blackjack play part of my advantage playing.
Covid year (2020) I obviously played less and ended with my worse blackjack results since I was red chipping back in Atlantic City, my first couple years. 2021 was one of my better years, but a couple entries into the database late in the year put a damper on that. 2022, I had to lay low and played 50% less and made about 1/3 less than I have averaged.
This year I am off to a great start. Had my best single day ever recently and was already 2 times above EV even before that. The very last thing I want to do, is have to lay low for an extended period while legal action progresses. Although I would like to hold someone accountable, I am just not willing to put myself through that.
But this is it for me. I am just not going to keep repeating the same comments while the trolls and haters do their thing. I have shared the experience and am moving on.
Now allow me to continue on with Rob, because it is such good fun. :)
2 days ago Rob announced that he had a real estate friend in Las Vegas, that says that my condo is subleased to 3 people. First hasn't Rob already played the real estate friend card a few years ago when Dan Druff busted him on this forum for using a sockpuppet, girlfriday who claimed to be a real estate agent to dispute property ownership by AP's? That ploy failed miserably:D. I suppose there could be a sublease to 3 people in the complex. We get some Poker players that sublease during the poker tournaments every year in this building. But it is not me. Our unit is owned by my brother and I (no 3rd person). But more likely than not, ALL of that real estate agent claim is made up. THAT is Robbie. :rolleyes:
Today, Rob says he will have his FBI brother-in-law or son-in-law look for a recent police report. Go for it Rob. Rob and his secret Agent this and that, and FBI family members. :)
Additionally, a couple days ago, Rob finally named the casino that he claims he won a 1.5 million dollar video poker jackpot last summer. He says it was Resorts World here in Vegas. I wasted 30 seconds sending an email to Resorts World and received a reply back that was a negative on this. Don't take my word for it. I encourage everyone to send an email to Resorts World inquiring. See for yourself. Of course Rob will tell us something like the lady responding isn't authorized to say anything because like everything with Rob this jackpot, was double top secret. :D
One thing Ozzy is right about....the Singer Bullshit never ends. Ron is the energizer bunny of gambling forum trolls.