Attempted theft of chips

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10-21-2021, 12:55 AM
kewlJ

Attempted theft of chips

So this was a new one for me in all the time I have put in at the blackjack tables. It occurred several weeks ago, as I have let some time pass before mentioning it for obvious reasons.

So I am playing at a table with two other players, a man and a lady, who are not together. I am at 1st base, other guy probably 26-28 in the middle and the lady at 3rd base. So the guy in the middle announces he is going to the bathroom. About a minute later dealer change. After the new dealer, female about 40 I would say, deals the first round a guy walks up starts to take a seat at the middle spot where the guys chips are. I am guessing about $600, mostly green, a few red. He doesn't sit all the way down and asks, "what happened to the other dealer?" This is when I look at him and realize it is not the same guy, this guy is older.

So the dealer responds that "the other dealer went on break" as you would expect and the guy says, "well I am going to color up and go get something to eat." As the dealer colors up and gets approval from the pit, the other player, the lady is looking at me, like she is saying "do something".

My whole playing approach is about keeping a low profile so the last thing I want to do is get involved with this. I say nothing while they complete the color up transaction, but I just HAVE to say something, so as soon as he walks away, I tell the dealer that was not the guy that was playing. She immediately calls the pit guy over and we can still see the guy walking over to the cage not that far away. Pit guy calls security and they swoop in 20 seconds later while guy is still at the cage.

I want to get out of there because I don't want anyone asking my name or taking a statement or anything as I am playing unrated. Just then the guy who was playing walks up. You can guess his bewilderment as he asks where his chips are while looking accusingly at me. Pit guy comes over and explains the situation. Now the victims is actually mad at me as he says, "you didn't tell them it was not me". I responded that I did.

So someone in security takes that guy (the original player) away, I guess to make a statement or something, I don't know. I declare, I gotta get out of here, this is too weird for me and color up and exit. No one asked my name or statement as I feared.

Of course I have never seen that and now weeks later still don't know how to handle it if it happens again. If I say nothing someone is going to get pissed at me (as happened) which draws attention. If I were to quickly exit, that could have the appearance that I am an accomplice, when it is discovered.

Any thoughts? Keep in mind the context. It isn't that I don't want to do the right thing, but I play unrated trying to keep a low profile and don't want the attention of getting involved in something like this.
10-21-2021, 01:50 AM
AxelWolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by kewlJ

So this was a new one for me in all the time I have put in at the blackjack tables. It occurred several weeks ago, as I have let some time pass before mentioning it for obvious reasons.

So I am playing at a table with two other players, a man and a lady, who are not together. I am at 1st base, other guy probably 26-28 in the middle and the lady at 3rd base. So the guy in the middle announces he is going to the bathroom. About a minute later dealer change. After the new dealer, female about 40 I would say, deals the first round a guy walks up starts to take a seat at the middle spot where the guys chips are. I am guessing about $600, mostly green, a few red. He doesn't sit all the way down and asks, "what happened to the other dealer?" This is when I look at him and realize it is not the same guy, this guy is older.

So the dealer responds that "the other dealer went on break" as you would expect and the guy says, "well I am going to color up and go get something to eat." As the dealer colors up and gets approval from the pit, the other player, the lady is looking at me, like she is saying "do something".

My whole playing approach is about keeping a low profile so the last thing I want to do is get involved with this. I say nothing while they complete the color up transaction, but I just HAVE to say something, so as soon as he walks away, I tell the dealer that was not the guy that was playing. She immediately calls the pit guy over and we can still see the guy walking over to the cage not that far away. Pit guy calls security and they swoop in 20 seconds later while guy is still at the cage.

I want to get out of there because I don't want anyone asking my name or taking a statement or anything as I am playing unrated. Just then the guy who was playing walks up. You can guess his bewilderment as he asks where his chips are while looking accusingly at me. Pit guy comes over and explains the situation. Now the victims is actually mad at me as he says, "you didn't tell them it was not me". I responded that I did.

So someone in security takes that guy (the original player) away, I guess to make a statement or something, I don't know. I declare, I gotta get out of here, this is too weird for me and color up and exit. No one asked my name or statement as I feared.

Of course I have never seen that and now weeks later still don't know how to handle it if it happens again. If I say nothing someone is going to get pissed at me (as happened) which draws attention. If I were to quickly exit, that could have the appearance that I am an accomplice, when it is discovered.

Any thoughts? Keep in mind the context. It isn't that I don't want to do the right thing, but I play unrated trying to keep a low profile and don't want the attention of getting involved in something like this.

If you recall, this pertains to one of the things I asked you about when you had mentioned you had never been 86ed in all theses years(or somthing like that). You mentioned you knew all the heat tolerance levels, shift changes, where to play etc.

If you are playing for enough years, and you put in enough time there has to be things out of your control that comes up that get you noticed.

Just the other day a situation came up where my friend and I had multiple hands-pays going at a small place, it just so happened to be around shift change and that caused them to forget to hand pay one. They and swore up and down they paid, we were 100% certain they didn't. They came up with some mumbo jumbo that they paid someone else blah blah blah. I could have just said nothing but, It should have been an easy situation to look in the camera, but apparently, that person happened to be off that day. I think they would have eventually looked once they had seen how far off their bank was.

I'm sure the gig is up now and they won't welcome a return. All because of their mistake and somthing out of our control. We are not even going to return and ask for the money at this point. I have a feeling they would pay and then 86.
10-21-2021, 01:59 AM
mcap

Either choose say something BEFORE the dealer gives the chips to the wrong guy if your ethics dictate you must say something, or say nothing at all. Waiting until after the dealer made the mistake, and then saying something....about the worst possible decision available imo.
10-21-2021, 02:38 AM
tableplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by kewlJ

So this was a new one for me in all the time I have put in at the blackjack tables. It occurred several weeks ago, as I have let some time pass before mentioning it for obvious reasons.

So I am playing at a table with two other players, a man and a lady, who are not together. I am at 1st base, other guy probably 26-28 in the middle and the lady at 3rd base. So the guy in the middle announces he is going to the bathroom. About a minute later dealer change. After the new dealer, female about 40 I would say, deals the first round a guy walks up starts to take a seat at the middle spot where the guys chips are. I am guessing about $600, mostly green, a few red. He doesn't sit all the way down and asks, "what happened to the other dealer?" This is when I look at him and realize it is not the same guy, this guy is older.

So the dealer responds that "the other dealer went on break" as you would expect and the guy says, "well I am going to color up and go get something to eat." As the dealer colors up and gets approval from the pit, the other player, the lady is looking at me, like she is saying "do something".

My whole playing approach is about keeping a low profile so the last thing I want to do is get involved with this. I say nothing while they complete the color up transaction, but I just HAVE to say something, so as soon as he walks away, I tell the dealer that was not the guy that was playing. She immediately calls the pit guy over and we can still see the guy walking over to the cage not that far away. Pit guy calls security and they swoop in 20 seconds later while guy is still at the cage.

I want to get out of there because I don't want anyone asking my name or taking a statement or anything as I am playing unrated. Just then the guy who was playing walks up. You can guess his bewilderment as he asks where his chips are while looking accusingly at me. Pit guy comes over and explains the situation. Now the victims is actually mad at me as he says, "you didn't tell them it was not me". I responded that I did.

So someone in security takes that guy (the original player) away, I guess to make a statement or something, I don't know. I declare, I gotta get out of here, this is too weird for me and color up and exit. No one asked my name or statement as I feared.

Of course I have never seen that and now weeks later still don't know how to handle it if it happens again. If I say nothing someone is going to get pissed at me (as happened) which draws attention. If I were to quickly exit, that could have the appearance that I am an accomplice, when it is discovered.

Any thoughts? Keep in mind the context. It isn't that I don't want to do the right thing, but I play unrated trying to keep a low profile and don't want the attention of getting involved in something like this.

A better way to run that play (IMHO) would have been to have all bases except the victims' covered and to have run it on baccarat instead of blackjack with half the in-place perps betting banker and the other half betting player.
Just kidding (I agree with Mcap - I guess the lady at 3rd base figured it was on you and not her to report it). On a more serious note, more and more shit like this is going to start going down as we spiral down into oblivion.
10-21-2021, 04:55 AM
Rob.Singer

Would have thought that any pro BJ player who takes pride in playing unrated would, upon witnessing an event of this type, simply immediately get up and take it elsewhere. The eye in the sky will protect you. It's all part of the discipline of being a successful gambler. Leave your penchant for drama at the door.
10-21-2021, 07:20 AM
jbjb

I wasn't at the table, but was in the casino once when a civilian friend of mine and his mom were playing Three Card Poker when a thief just walked up and grabbed a stack of his moms chips and ran off. The idiot was dumb enough to run into a restroom where he got cornered by security and police.
10-21-2021, 07:40 AM
Tasha

Someone said he stole seemingly abandoned money in a Casino and ran to the Cashier Cage to cash it out only to be confronted by a Casino Worker and forced to give back the "Seemingly abandoned money," to the real Player who had been in the restroom and was backroomed and banned for a couple of days and he surmised he was only banned for a couple of days since he gave the money right back and didn't actually get to cash it out. It may have been an arrest had he actually cashed it out and left and was caught on surveillance camera.
10-21-2021, 07:57 AM
The Boz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tasha

Someone said he stole seemingly abandoned money in a Casino and ran to the Cashier Cage to cash it out only to be confronted by a Casino Worker and forced to give back the "Seemingly abandoned money," to the real Player who had been in the restroom and was backroomed and banned for a couple of days and he surmised he was only banned for a couple of days since he gave the money right back and didn't actually get to cash it out. It may have been an arrest had he actually cashed it out and left and was caught on surveillance camera.

Who couldn’t see you coming with some ghetto casino 4th hand story you heard on the bus with other broke minorities? I can only imagine the conversations between people who lose more than their total net worth on a weekly trip to the casino. Think about it, in your case it’s definitely the truth.

Fuck you Tasha, fuck you Starburger and Good Morning and have a nice day!
10-21-2021, 08:23 AM
The Boz

On KJ’s original post I wonder if this was a crime of opportunity, which seems likely, or something a scammer waits for. To work the guy needs dealer changes which happen often, but still during a time someone uses the restroom. Often a relief dealer moves to the next table so there is a chance he would notice as well, though probably is too busy dealing.

A professional scammer who has pulled this off before probably wouldn’t go to the cage but would leave with the chips. And it doesn’t seem to be a good long term scam. Someone desperate enough to try this and quickly cash the chips in is probably a junkie.
10-21-2021, 08:51 AM
monet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxFMp88ca9k
10-21-2021, 09:36 AM
kewlJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Boz

On KJ’s original post I wonder if this was a crime of opportunity, which seems likely, or something a scammer waits for. To work the guy needs dealer changes which happen often, but still during a time someone uses the restroom. Often a relief dealer moves to the next table so there is a chance he would notice as well, though probably is too busy dealing.

A professional scammer who has pulled this off before probably wouldn’t go to the cage but would leave with the chips. And it doesn’t seem to be a good long term scam. Someone desperate enough to try this and quickly cash the chips in is probably a junkie.

Seems like a horrible scam to me with little chance of success. I agree the "perp" had to see the player exit to the men's room. Followed shortly after by a dealer change. Also had to have that dealer change occur early after exit to ensure the player did not return during the color up. So he was nearby watching, either just happen so, or looking for such a scenario.

Now the risky part to me is the other two players, myself and the lady. I know there are a lot of people that live by the mentality to mind their own business. He is going to need both the other players to be of such a mindset. That seems a big risk.

Also, I have been thinking about this ever since....what is the responsibility of pit in this situation. I mean the new dealer can't know if that was the same player, but doesn't the pit have some responsibility in this? I mean the pit guy in this case, oked the color up pay out.

It just seems like a weak scam with minimal chance of success for relatively small money. And if the perp was lucky enough to succeed, is this something to do over again? That would guarantee getting caught.
10-21-2021, 10:20 AM
Mission146

You're observant to your surroundings because you're a card counter, though how observant the lady was is a bit of a surprise to me. I would think the perp would figure he could count on a combination of some people's inclination not to say anything AND unobservant people not paying enough attention to know that he's not the right guy anyway. He'd probably already cased out your table and determined that neither you or the lady was actually there with the guy.

As far as the overall scenario is concerned, I'd think that the biggest thing would have to be knowing that the relief dealer hadn't herself played with the guy in the middle, so you'd kind of have to be watching everything going on all around you. It's not a particularly sophisticated heist, even with that, as has been mentioned...so I think it's at least as likely that it was an opportunist as someone actually trying to case such an opportunity. That said, if someone was casing it, then I'd be expect they would see a similar situation at least once every several hours if the casino is busy enough.

The pit guy probably barely looked that way when he, "Approved," check-change and may not have looked that way at all in approving the color up. Casino staff were alerted to the issue, and considering they cut that guy off before he even made it to the cage, I'd say they did a good job on that one. Think about it this way: Do you really want all of the staff in the pit taking a close notice of you every time you sit down before you've even played a hand?
10-21-2021, 10:35 AM
kewlJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mission146

He'd probably already cased out your table and determined that neither you or the lady was actually there with the guy.

My guess is that it wasn't really a "casing out" type thing. I would guess just a crime of opportunity, meaning he happened to see the player exit, saw a pile of chips and then a minute or two later noticed the dealer change.

But anyway, lets change course just a little. Back when I played Atlantic City, I don't remember players leaving their chips. IIRC, the dealer would hold the spot with a lamber (little plastic thing in the chip rack that separates chips) and players took all or most of their chips with them.

I remember this because when I moved to Vegas and saw that players just leave all their chip, I thought that asinine. Would you leave $600 in cash at your spot? or leave your wallet at your spot? No...of course not, but players will leave $600 (or more) in chips. Very strange.

I never leave all my chips. I might leave some red, but I take the green and black with me. Besides security concerns, it allows me to slip a couple chips in my pocket, so when I return, I just place the slightly smaller group down and have successfully ratholed, with no chance of being seen.
10-21-2021, 10:39 AM
Mission146

Yeah, you've made the other point that I was going to make. In a casino environment, one must assume that one must look out for oneself...which would include not leaving chips on the table. I'm not sure what the casino would have done if the guy had made it out with them, but my #1 guess would not be, "Give the guy his money anyway."
10-21-2021, 06:32 PM
mickeycrimm

You can't trust any situation. I wouldn't leave hundred dollar bills on the poker table when I went to the restroom. I pocketed them then put them back on the table when I returned. I was in arguments about it with other players and dealers. My statement was "Are you going to replace the money if someone snatches it while I'm gone."

One time at the Horseshoe in a 10/20 game this lady was playing every hand and check/calling all the way to the river. Everyone at the table was after her. I was the one that caught the most cards. I put together three racks of red. I get up to go to the can. When I come back I see a railbird staring at the racks. In his eyes I could see the wheels turning in his brain. He was going to grab a rack and haul ass. Luckily, I got back just in time.

One time I was walking up Fremont street on the other side of the street from the El Cortez. A skinny black kid with a coin bucket in his hand came running out the door and ran fast as greased lightning down the street. A pot bellied security guard came running out after him. He made about ten slow strides down the street before realizing he had no chance to catch the dude that stole the bucket of coins. He dejectedly walked back into the El Cortez.
10-21-2021, 07:02 PM
The Boz

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

You can't trust any situation. I wouldn't leave hundred dollar bills on the poker table when I went to the restroom. I pocketed them then put them back on the table when I returned. I was in arguments about it with other players and dealers. My statement was "Are you going to replace the money if someone snatches it while I'm gone."

One time at the Horseshoe in a 10/20 game this lady was playing every hand and check/calling all the way to the river. Everyone at the table was after her. I was the one that caught the most cards. I put together three racks of red. I get up to go to the can. When I come back I see a railbird staring at the racks. In his eyes I could see the wheels turning in his brain. He was going to grab a rack and haul ass. Luckily, I got back just in time.

One time I was walking up Fremont street on the other side of the street from the El Cortez. A skinny black kid with a coin bucket in his hand came running out the door and ran fast as greased lightning down the street. A pot bellied security guard came running out after him. He made about ten slow strides down the street before realizing he had no chance to catch the dude that stole the bucket of coins. He dejectedly walked back into the El Cortez.

Years ago you shared many of these stories on “other” forums and sites. No clue if there is financial value in them but I do hope you put them somewhere for posterity that future generations can find them. I know you are into genealogy, do you think there is such a thing for gambling history?

I’m probably an outlier but my younger trips were always to the strip. I only discovered Fremont later in life and it was in the dying days before East Fremont became part of the gentrification movement. We were at the Western before it closed and the Atomic when you had to be buzzed in, which we were. Maybe I’m one of the few who enjoys the stories of how Vegas was in the 90’s.
10-22-2021, 01:04 PM
jdog

Thought this was interesting because it's always seemed risky to me to leave chips unattended, particularly at a busy craps table. My first impression was to agree with The Boz that only a junkie would consider such a high risk move. Then talked to my wife, who is more of a table player, and she said it may be easier to pull off than I thought. Personally I think I'd know if it was they guy sitting next to me or not but many people are not paying much attention to other players and more focused on the game. I think an ideal scenario would be a small number of players, particularly ones that are not socializing, and even better if they haven't been sitting together long. It would take careful observation to find the right time to strike.

It may not be as risky as we think because it wouldn't be impossible for the guy to talk his way out of it if kewlj immediately blew his cover. He just looks around confused and says: oh shit this isn't my table, I'm so sorry! Now of course he's risking getting on some kind of list but if he's smooth he can just pass it off as he's drunk. If they stop him at the cage before he cashes, he still might even be able to play it off. If he makes it through cash out quickly he's home free because nobody noticed yet. But obviously the smartest move is to exit immediately with the chips which points more to this guy being a tweaker.

kewlj: Any chance this guy was just super hammered and made an honest mistake?