Questions Regarding Dice Influencing

I don't play craps, but I have friends who do, so I am curious. Frank, I don't want to assume you'll simply answer everything, as undoubtedly there is proprietary value in some responses.

1) How different or standard are tables today? How many different basic types are there? Do casinos customize their tables? Are some (cheaper or older) tables likely used for lower limits, others for higher limits, or do most places use same tables for both?

2) Did you practice on certain types of tables? Are these tables still in use or are there models of tables that have come and gone, like auto models?

3) How important is the levelness of the table? In a place like Mandalay, which is supposedly settling and not necessarily completely level throughout, would that affect what an influencer is trying to do? How consistent is the levelness of any casino floor?

4) How many types of dice are there? Have different styles come and gone? What do you look for/not look for in the dice?

5) If you practice on one type of table with a particular kind of dice, can you be effective on other tables with other dice, or should you restrict yourself to identical makes?

I'm a total disbeliever that any shooter can either "influence" or "control" dice in the game of craps. And I really haven't kept up with all the claims and theories of those who think it's doable. When the idea first came out, it wasn't too difficult to realize that it was just another vehicle of taking other people's money via the sales route with a slick-sounding gambling scheme by Wong. I also do not know what Alan's or anyone else's beliefs are here because I've always skipped most of the craps discussions.

To that effect, if we could set up a meet up here in northern Nevada and if Alan would be willing to participate in any fashion on either side, I'd be willing to match whatever any "believer" wins on his throws as long as those winning throws are identified to me what the shooter expects prior to the shoot, and of course I'm paid an equal amount of whatever the shooter loses, ie., fails to control or influence the dice--up to a modest amount of say $5000. This really isn't a bet in the conventional sense.

Does that make sense?

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I'd be willing to match whatever any "believer" wins on his throws as long as those winning throws are identified to me what the shooter expects prior to the shoot, and of course I'm paid an equal amount of whatever the shooter loses, ie., fails to control or influence the dice--up to a modest amount of say $5000.

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Rob, I don't think anyone will take your bet and here's why:

Dice influencers or controllers say that they can either minimize or maximize the appearance of the 7, but they don't claim that they can roll particular numbers or a number on command.

I don't think you would accept a bet like this: "I have money on the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 10 and if I hit any of them on the next roll I proved my control of the dice." That, in effect, is what dice influencers and dice controllers are saying.

I am yet to meet anyone who can claim to hit a specific number on any specific throw.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Rob, I don't think anyone will take your bet and here's why:

Dice influencers or controllers say that they can either minimize or maximize the appearance of the 7, but they don't claim that they can roll particular numbers or a number on command.

I don't think you would accept a bet like this: "I have money on the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 10 and if I hit any of them on the next roll I proved my control of the dice." That, in effect, is what dice influencers and dice controllers are saying.

I am yet to meet anyone who can claim to hit a specific number on any specific throw.

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OK, that shows how little I know about craps and this dice influencing stuff. But can you think of a reasonable way to have someone try to prove to me that it works, because I can't believe anyone can do something like that without the dice being lucky for them consistently.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

OK, that shows how little I know about craps and this dice influencing stuff. But can you think of a reasonable way to have someone try to prove to me that it works, because I can't believe anyone can do something like that without the dice being lucky for them consistently.

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THAT IS THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.

I would estimate that for at least ten years I pursued the dice influencing theory fervently. And in fact, I still do believe it is possible. But I have found that even the best of the dice "influencers" who have the theory down pat with the grip and the toss and the gentle throw and soft roll cannot seem to have consistently good results. Therefore I say this: attempting to influence or control the dice can't hurt, but there is no guarantee it can help.

Actually, Rob -- and you might appreciate this -- attempting dice influencing and dice control is a lot like playing video poker and following a strategy, and any strategy. It still needs a component of luck and luck cannot be learned or practiced.

And I would rather bet on a video poker player who uses a strategy than a player who doesn't, and I would rather bet on a craps shooter who uses or attempts dice influencing or dice control than a player who doesn't.

I am also interested in seeing how Frank responds, but would you mind if I took a stab at these?

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Originally Posted by redietz

1) How different or standard are tables today? How many different basic types are there? Do casinos customize their tables? Are some (cheaper or older) tables likely used for lower limits, others for higher limits, or do most places use same tables for both?

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All tables can be used in a casino for any limits. But all tables are different and unique because of their sizes, shapes, wear of felt, type of bounce, different materials under the felt that might increase the bounce and so forth. On the main website page for Dice http://alanbestbuys.com/id139.html I showed how Caesars recently started to put their new table felts over their old felts which increased the bounce on the tables. Here is the photo from that page:

http://alanbestbuys.com/sitebuilderc...21114-0651.jpg

At some casinos you might see that in the middle of the table there is a small lift or metal rod under the felt that is placed there to prevent sliding dice from one end of the table to another.

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Originally Posted by redietz

2) Did you practice on certain types of tables? Are these tables still in use or are there models of tables that have come and gone, like auto models?

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I do not have my own "real table" though I do have a mini or "toy table" that I've practiced on. But in all honesty, you can practice just as well throwing two dice on your bed. Wong wrote about this -- put aluminum foil on your bed and see the marks made by the dice on the foil. You want to see stripes showing that the dice hit flat which is the objective of a controlled or influenced throw. Sharp marks or "stars" as Wong called them show your dice are hitting on the corners and there is no control hitting like that.

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Originally Posted by redietz

3) How important is the levelness of the table? In a place like Mandalay, which is supposedly settling and not necessarily completely level throughout, would that affect what an influencer is trying to do? How consistent is the levelness of any casino floor?

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I think playing dice as the Titanic was sinking wouldn't be much fun. But I doubt that a minor slant would make a difference. If Mandalay Bay ever slanted enough to impact the dice, I doubt the hotel would be open. But in all seriousness I doubt any slant would overcome the friction presented by the felt and the dice. A craps table is not like an ice rink.

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Originally Posted by redietz

4) How many types of dice are there? Have different styles come and gone? What do you look for/not look for in the dice?

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There are many different types of dice but generally you want to play with larger dice that are easier to grip and see. I prefer new dice for sharp corners and sides, and I hate older, dirty dice. Once at the MGM the dice were so old and sticky that they actually stuck to my fingers when I tried to shoot them. So I stood there with palm down, dice sticking to my finger tips, and said "can you clean these please?" The floorman then took tissues and one by one cleaned all five dice.

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Originally Posted by redietz

5) If you practice on one type of table with a particular kind of dice, can you be effective on other tables with other dice, or should you restrict yourself to identical makes?

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I wonder about this myself. Wong said practicing on your bed is just as good since all tables are different. One of the principles of dice influencing is "muscle memory" but if all tables are different the muscle memory of one table does you no good on another table.

I look forward to Frank's responses.

When I played craps seriously, I favored and practiced on the longer tables that the Flamingo used to have. However, most other casinos used the shorter tables and I had to develop a different throw for those casinos. As other states began to offer craps, most with the smaller tables, I became more comfortable with the smaller tables. But there will always be some casinos that I will not play craps in due to the bounce--and in the Chicago area, that only leaves 1 casino that is playable.

Thanks for the information, Alan. I had no idea about the lift or metal rod in the middle of the table. Is that common? And do most people notice it and know about it?

Sam's Town had the rod when I played there about seven years ago. I heard that Wynn just put them in after the dice sliding incident. Caesars, MGM, Bellagio, Mandalay do not have them.

Do most people notice? Probably no reason to notice it. I look for those things out of habit and curiosity.