8/5 vs 7/5 video poker games

This is in response to a post by Dan on another thread which was closed. I think the other thread was closed in error (these things happen) but I also think it's worth another thread to isolate the subject.

In the other thread Dan wrote: "I know that you look for the best paytables wherever you are, but you also can't dismiss the importance of 8/5 versus 7/5."

Dan: I do not dismiss the importance of 8/5 versus 7/5. And even Rob Singer does not dismiss the importance of 8/5 versus 7/5. I hope I am presenting Rob's thinking correctly here:

I know for a fact that Rob would rather play 8/5 than 7/5 Bonus. We've talked about it. And I would rather play 8/5 than 7/5 Bonus.

The controversy over 8/5 vs 7/5 is really nothing more than a misunderstanding.

My point is Rob's point. And Rob's point is my point. Here it is:

EVERYONE AGREES that it's better to play similar games with the better pay table. This applies to 8/5 Bonus vs 7/5 Bonus, and 9/6 Double Double Bonus vs 9/5 DDB, and 9/6 Jacks vs 9/5 Jacks. I believe this. Dan, you believe this. RS__ you believe this and so does Rob Singer.

No one -- including Rob -- will argue that a full house in 8/5 Bonus will pay you more coins than a full house in 7/5 Bonus.

But here's the misunderstanding, and you can argue this:

Rob's point is that he can still meet his win goals and be a net winner despite a lower payout on a full house or flush or both.

Now... everyone, including ME can argue that. In theory, we should win more and lose less if we are playing the game with the better pay table. But Rob doesn't care about the extra coin or coins with the better paying full house or flush. That doesn't mean he disagrees that the 8/5 Pay Table is better; he's just saying that in the scheme of things the extra pay from the 8/5 Pay Table doesn't make a significant difference.

Now, why might Rob think that way? Well, I think it's because he has a bigger bankroll to play with than the rest of us. Didn't he say he had something like $17,000+ to play with? For him, the extra coins on the 8/5 game may indeed be insignificant. But for the rest of us (ME included) the extra coins with the 8/5 game CAN BE significant.

One other point: Rob is more likely to break up a full house to go for quads. And a player who is willing to sacrifice a pat full house to try for quads certainly isn't going to care about the payout for a full house, is he?

This, I think is the entire misunderstanding about why Rob disputes the importance of the better pay table. He's not saying the better paytable isn't going to pay you more coins, he's just saying that to him it doesn't matter.

And the rest of us? Well, for the most part we don't break up full houses on most games. And we don't have a $17,000+ bankroll so the extra coins from a better pay table do mean something significant to us.

The other thread closure was an accident, and I just reopened it.

I understand that both you and Rob would choose the 8/5 machine if you saw otherwise identical 7/5 and 8/5 machines sitting side by side.

However, the difference is that you and Rob will play a 7/5 if that's all you can find at the particular casino you're at, whereas people like myself and RS_ will choose not to play there at all, as the house edge is simply too high.

Now, if the 7/5 machine is literally the only thing available for many miles, then I understand why a recreational VP player might want to play it anyway. However, I see people choosing to play at casinos with lousy pay tables when the one right next door has a better pay table for the same game.

That's what I don't understand.

I also don't understand the rationale of, "Well, it only matters when you hit big hands, so the 7/5 thing doesn't mean much versus the 8/5". That's just not true, and it's exactly what the casino WANTS you to think. That's why paytables keep decreasing. It would make more sense if the answer were, "Yes, I know it sucks, but there was nothing else better, and I felt like playing, so I did it anyway." At least that I could understand and respect.

Also, for reasons I won't get into publicly, I don't believe Rob has a large bankroll.

That's all a myth he likes to put out there, just like his 10 years of regular VP play where he won $1,000,000+.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Also, for reasons I won't get into publicly, I don't believe Rob has a large bankroll.

That's all a myth he likes to put out there, just like his 10 years of regular VP play where he won $1,000,000+.

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Is that the current host-approved standard for calling someone a liar..."reasons I won't get into publicly" ?

Why not just phrase it like this..."I think Rob is a liar, but I won't say why I think that".

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

But Rob doesn't care about the extra coin or coins with the better paying full house or flush. That doesn't mean he disagrees that the 8/5 Pay Table is better; he's just saying that in the scheme of things the extra pay from the 8/5 Pay Table doesn't make a significant difference.

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Dan, I think I'm beginning to see the light here...

Let's say you start off with a bankroll of $2500, enough to play 100 hands of $5 Video Poker. They say it doesn't matter what a Flush or Full House pays... Why stop there? One could even argue that it doesn't matter if the machine pays ZERO for 2 Pair, Three of a Kind or Straights. What matters is that you hit that Royal Flush or Quad Aces within those 100 hands before all your money runs out!

Internet bankrolls are larger than real life bankrolls. My internet bankroll while gambling is eleventy trillion.

Dan rarely reads things clearly. Since I've been retired from professional gambling since May 2009 I have no gambling bankroll. And when I do play these days it's just like how any other recreational player does: with whatever cash I have remaining from my monthly (in my case---retirement) income. That evening where I won over $25,000 at SP on a 25c thru $2 single line machine? I had just about $1200 going in--which is likelythe most I'll ever risk going forward since I only dig into my savings for major purchases. That was in early June and I've played once since and am going to LV next week. So I don't really qualify as a junkie anymore like the rest of you seem to be.

Alan was talking about the $17k I took on my weekly gambling job for 10 years, and the add'l. $40k I infrequently needed to get at BofA back then. And Dan, you're not required to believe that I won what I've said, because we've already seen how you tried to come up with so many foolish excuses why the jackpot pictures I've posted here were not mine, we're photoshoped, or were of Divine Intervention or other such nonsense. I just wonder if you were part of the gang of envious and unbelieving "AP's" who kept badgering Gaming Today back then when I constantly reported on and published pictures of my larger jackpots on an almost weekly basis.

The 8/5 vs. 7/5 BP thing---Alan basically covered it, other than being physically more comfortable at a certain 7/5 machine trumps playing at an irritating 8/5 one. And yes, this is how a professional gambler who knows what they're thinking would do, while a recreational player probably would not. You've got it backwards....kinda par for the course. And Dan, for reasons I won't go into publicly here, due to your failure to have any type of life-skill in order to have worked steadily throughout your years, you might want to start thinking a bit more about what your retirement will look like. Just sayin'.....

The only importance I ever placed on full houses, flushes, straights were as indicators of a hot/cold cycles.

To become 7 star you need to play a lot. What happens to the cost of becoming 7 star when you play 7/5 vs 8/5 bonus video poker?

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Originally Posted by ke6cdh

To become 7 star you need to play a lot. What happens to the cost of becoming 7 star when you play 7/5 vs 8/5 bonus video poker?

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Theoretically it goes up. Theoretically you will lose money reaching 7 Stars even when you play 8/5 Bonus. But two years ago I reached 7 Stars with a profit because I hit a $2 royal.

It costs more on 8/5 BP if it's 25 coin in per TC.

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Originally Posted by RS__

It costs more on 8/5 BP if it's 25 coin in per TC.

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You can still find 8/5 Aces and Faces (like Bonus) at Rincon with $10 per tier credit at $5 per coin.

I wish I had the correct bankroll to play $25 per hand.

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Originally Posted by ke6cdh

I wish I had the correct bankroll to play $25 per hand.

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I never had the bankroll to play $25/coin video poker, but the first time I hit a royal for $100K I started with $2,000 and the second time I had $2500 which I grew to $5,000 on $5/coin and then switched to $25/coin. Sometimes you get lucky.

You've had plenty of royals. But you rarely budge above the low levels you play.

Your absolutely right, the day I hit 2 royal flushes in deuces wild on 2 different ultimate-x machines I was playing multiple lines at 5 cents coin level 5 coins per line, however, I was playing within my bankroll.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ke6cdh

Your absolutely right, the day I hit 2 royal flushes in deuces wild on 2 different ultimate-x machines I was playing multiple lines at 5 cents coin level 5 coins per line, however, I was playing within my bankroll.

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I will never criticize anyone for playing within their bankroll. Never. But you will always be playing within your bankroll.

When I started playing video poker I started at 25-cents. I remember the day I hit my first royal for $1,000 and then moved up to $1. And then I played until I hit 4 aces with a kicker (DDB) for $2K and then I moved up to $5 and I hit my first royal. This was more than 10 years ago.