TR inflation

http://www.vegaschatter.com/story/20...lation+Problem

Seems to me that they'll need to add another tier between diamond and 7 stars. Or redo the whole tier layout.

On a side note, the mrs and I decided we need a little break yesterday and drove across the border to Washington and did some clothing shopping and hit the tulalip casino for craps. Didn't win, but enjoyed 3-4hours with an acceptable loss. Dealers were competent and mostly friendly.

A DC play came up at one point and was doing well but I didn't appreciate her glee. She got killed on a couple shooters that hit a couple points with a lot of rolls. Danger of the DC I guess.

Thanks for posting. There is no question that there are now more 7 Stars and Diamonds putting pressure on the entire system. This is why certain bonuses such as 7 Stars Experiences have been altered this year, with more tier points required and what appears to be a downgrade in the quality of the promotions.

I think everyone would say that the offers this year are worth much less than last year.

This is really interesting. I did not know a billion dollar valuation had been placed on the TR program. That tells me, well, that the more CET can create an inflated profile demographic, the more the program would appear to be worth. So all of this sudden re-categorizing of customers makes it look as if their demographic has shifted upwards when it hasn't. This has real effect in discussions of selling off properties.

Alan, is this likely part of the strategy CET would use?

I am not sure how they came up with a value of one billion dollars for TR?? After all, the only asset of the TR program is its list of players. TR has no revenue. It does not have a product to sell. To me, it sounds like a company that puts "good will" on its balance sheet.

They could have some means of determining the revenue generated by TR members, but I actually doubt that they have really done that. It is probably just a made up number.

Any idea how many TR members there actually are?

If TR is worth a billion dollars, they could sell that asset (i.e. the customer list) in the bankruptcy and eliminate a portion of their debt, although their debt is over 18 billion.

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Originally Posted by regnis

If TR is worth a billion dollars, they could sell that asset (i.e. the customer list) in the bankruptcy and eliminate a portion of their debt, although their debt is over 18 billion.

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There is one thing that a company will never give up: it's list of its best customers.

When the big airlines were all facing bankruptcy and reorganization back in the 1980s because of deregulation, the subject of selling off frequent flyer lists came up. And every airline said that was the last asset they would give up.

I am sure it is the same with the casinos: those lists are gold. And in the case of TR, it's not just a mailing list, but it's also data about spending, casino visits, type of play. Remember, Caesars CEO Gary Loveman made farming TR a priority for marketing the company. The information might indeed be worth a billion dollars when you consider all the data it holds and marketing potential that could be sold to other companies -- but be assured Caesars wouldn't give it up before they put some of their casino-hotels up on the auction block.

They made the number up, and they had a reason to do it. It means nothing outside of a bankruptcy proceedings ploy.

Roel, if there is such a thing as an "acceptable loss" to you, we are from different worlds, and you are a casino's best friend. Even assigning any sort of entertainment value to it is stupifying.

Hold your horses Rob not everyone has the same goal as you for casino play.

Doesn't matter. How does one believe any loss is acceptable? No one ever wants to lose prior to gambling, really, and if they do then it would actually be disappointing....but never "acceptable". It's not anything like spending money for dinner or a movie as entertainment. There is no enjoyment in losing.

Many players can have "acceptable losses" Rob. In fact it's the only realistic way to play in a casino and "acceptable losses" is the foundation for win goals and loss limits.

No one likes to lose but knowing what losses are acceptable is part of a realistic and sane approach.

I will give you an example of an acceptable loss. I lose between $100-$200 in Vegas. On this trip I have had airfare for two from Charlotte, NC to Vegas, limo from and back to the airport, a very nice suite, meals and drinks, tickets to a good nightclub show, and in this case a 50 inch flat screen tv (which was shipped to my house). To me, this would certainly be acceptable. I realize that Rob sees things only one way -- his way, and simply refuses to agree with any other opinion. But if I were a gambler I would wager that most folks would readily agree that this "losing" trip would be considered acceptable. I realize that most of us are not in the super high roll class that Rob is in, but for us peons, this was a pretty good trip. I would take it every time.

And self-valuations of slot club "freebies" is exactly how the casinos want their gamblers to feel after losing so they'll come back and do it again and again and again. And on the trips where the player wins, they'll go back to play even more often than originally planned due to an abundance of confidence & cash that burns a never-ending hole in their pockets--again, something the casinos count on players doing. That person chimp who hit those big winners? Dollars for donuts she's been back playing very hi-limit machines often, expecting more of those $50k hits. Does the casino expect this of her? Absolutely, and overwhelmingly players lose all that they've won and more in following this "acceptable" loss pattern, as intentionally laid out by the casino.

So a loss is never "acceptable" under any circumstances, except to the casinos.

People spend their money on whatever "recreation" they choose. I'm not sure blowing money watching dice roll or cards flash on a video screen is any more insidious than buying late model vehicles or fast food or 50 kinds of prescription drugs advertised on television and pushed to and by your doctor. I don't know how you put a metric on what's acceptable and reasonable and what isn't. That's not a defense of losing money gambling, but one can lose money any number of ways in a consumer society, and gambling experiences may or may not measure up to pricey sports cars, RV's, lawn care, gym memberships, or botox.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

That person chimp who hit those big winners? Dollars for donuts she's been back playing very hi-limit machines often, expecting more of those $50k hits.

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I plead the 5th. ;)

meaning shes had more 50K hits, just chose not to tell us... LOL

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Originally Posted by Chimp

I plead the 5th. ;)

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Back to the original subject of "Total Rewards Inflation" --

I think there is also a real danger that the value of "reward credits" will be lowered. Instead of exchanging 125 RCs for $100 of free play, they could simply announce a start date for the new exchange rate to be 150 RCs, or just a small devaluation like 130 RCs.

What will be especially interesting is what happens at the Great Gift Wrap Up. Remember: "bonus points" are not counted towards Great Gift Wrap Up points -- only the "earned tier credits" (base credits) become GGWU points. There could be a lot of surprised players with oodles of bonus tier points who might find only a fraction are GGWU points, plus there could be a double-whammy of higher "point prices" for the GGWU merchandise.

Another possible impact of TR inflation is fewer, and less valuable bonuses except for the very higher upper tier of 7 Stars.

If a person WON on the trip, wouldn't he still get the same fun offers?

This article didn't come off to me as being written by someone very knowledgeable of TR. They just regurgitated some statistics and benefits that they found on the TR webpage and various e-mailers.

The one thing they got correct was that Platinum is almost worthless now. There are a few (very few) lines where Platinum gets priority over Gold/No Card, but I hardly see that anywhere. The one real benefit to Platinum was the ability to waive resort fees, but that disappeared after November 2014. CET came to realize that people were signing up for the TR card just to avoid the resort fees, so they killed that for Platinum for that very reason.

But the rest of the article was pretty much incorrect garbage and speculation. The author didn't even understand that your offers have absolutely zero to do with your tier status. Last year I had a friend with a Gold status who got FAR better offers than I did as a Seven Stars.

The 50% tier bonus (up to 25k) isn't going to create much inflation, because frankly the Diamond benefits aren't that wonderful, so CET isn't going to going to suffer much with some additional Diamond people. It is unlikely that a 25k tier bonus is going to get more people to Seven Stars. You still have to earn 125,000 on your own, and if you were going to get to 125,000, you are likely to have completed the final 25,000 to get to Seven Stars anyway.

The Diamond lounges have degraded in food quality, but that happened years ago.

Bottom line is that, no, there isn't much TR inflation.

However, there is a general belt-tightening going on, including sharply reduced offers, as well as a severe law of diminishing returns for Seven Stars experience value. Basically once you get to 150k tiers, the TR program rewards you VERY poorly.

I think you're partially wrong, Dan. There are a lot more 7 Stars now.

And there is still a Platinum line at the check-in at Caesars Palace.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I think you're partially wrong, Dan. There are a lot more 7 Stars now.

And there is still a Platinum line at the check-in at Caesars Palace.

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That's the only place I've seen a Platinum line, to my knowledge.

You really think there's a lot more Seven Stars in 2015 than 2014? I doubt that.

I think there are more Seven Stars since they introduced the bonus tiers, as you were able to get to Seven Stars by earning 50k base tiers instead of 100k, which made it twice as easy provided you were willing to concentrate your play into 10-20 heavy days to get there.

Absolutely there are more 7 Stars and that extra 25,000 tier points went a long way. That 25,000 bonus was 1/6 of 7 Stars. And that's on top of the new 10,000 tier score bonus for getting 5,000 from actual play. And don't forget you now get tier points for non-gambling spending.

the bonuses made it possible for me to reach SS this year.. I'm at 135,000 and 87750 of that was from the various bonuses.. 6 hand pays in march also helped . : )

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

That person chimp who hit those big winners? Dollars for donuts she's been back playing very hi-limit machines often, expecting more of those $50k hits. Does the casino expect this of her? Absolutely, and overwhelmingly players lose all that they've won and more in following this "acceptable" loss pattern, as intentionally laid out by the casino

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Alan, pardon me for changing the subject but I want to say something to Rob.

Rob, You are absolutely correct. I have played higher limit games and much more frequently. And yes, I have lost a lot. But I also won much, much more than I have posted. So yes, I am down quite a bit from my highest point, but I am also way, way up for the year. I'm staying neutral on the "acceptable loss" debate. But believe me....I am WELL AWARE that I have been extremely lucky. And I know that I need to be very careful. It is sooooo easy to feel invincible, as I did for a few months.
P.S. - I will be posting a few hits shortly. 😄

One additional thing you may want to watch chimp is the issue I ran into the last two tax returns after a series of huge jackpots: they totally messed up my tax returns. When I filed as a professional gambler I said "bring it on" when it came to collecting piles of W2G's. But as a retiree, those things caused me a lot of headaches, which is why I no longer play above $2.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

they totally messed up my tax returns.

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I thought you just wrote off all your wins with your "professional expenses" and paid nothing in taxes? So what's a few more W2G's to write off?