Real issue here is the players club card.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...wsuit-giveaway
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Real issue here is the players club card.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...wsuit-giveaway
Very dirty by Viejas, but that's Indian casinos for ya.
Alan says that the real issue is the players club card (apparently the "winner" of the car allowed someone else to play on her card to help rack up additional entries), but I don't think that's really what happened. That is, I believe she shared the card for that purpose, but I believe the casino realized this after-the-fact.
Here's what I think actually happened:
- Viejas heavily promoted the $130k Aston Martin as a prize, thus drumming up a lot of extra business and play
- Viejas likely had an existing agreement with the San Diego dealership where they would receive the car at a discount, in exchange for promoting them
- Still not wanting to pay so much money for the car, Viejas came up with a slick plan to aggressively hassle the winner into taking a lesser cash prize, insisting that it was to their benefit. I'm guessing the pitch involved both supposed tax implications and the quick depreciation of luxury cars. Probably went something like, "The second you drive that car off the lot, it's going down in value substantially, yet you'll owe taxes on the full $130k. Plus it will cost a ton to insure and maintain. Why not just take $XXXXX instead, and you will end up better off?" They probably expected to mentally exhaust most winners into finally accepting the cash prize instead, thus saving themselves money.
- The winner still refused, angering the tribe that their little plan to save money failed. For the moment, they backed off, and told her she could go pick up the car at the dealership. They were buying time.
- The tribe decided to review the tapes to find any kind of violation to avoid having to award her the car. They found that she allowed a friend to play on her card, thus violating their terms of service, and were able to disqualify her.
- The dealership, never having received the paperwork confirming the award, could not award the car.
I feel that the dealership isn't at fault, as they were simply delivering the prize, not the ones awarding it.
It would be like me advertising a free Dell computer for a contest winner here, only to fail to award the computer. You couldn't successfully sue Dell for it, even if they had knowledge that I was running such a contest.
She can't sue Viejas because tribal casinos are protected from lawsuits (which is awful, and shouldn't be allowed, to be honest).
Anyway, this is standard shady behavior from Indian gaming.
Question: would any forum member actually take the car instead of the cash (assuming the cash was reasonable)?
It’d depend on the amount of cash offered and how much it’d cost to insure the new car, taxes, probably to a lower extent gas mileage. And/or look at reselling the car, which is something I definitely don’t know much about. If I were to drive it as my own car, well, I’m kinda particular about certain stuff in my car....so even if though it’s a nice car, doesn’t necessarily mean I’d like to drive it.
For instance, I can’t stand Chargers & because there’s very limited visibility, the seat belts choke the shit outta you, the door handle is retarded, IIRC the windshield wipers are weird to use (same lever as the blinker), I believe the cup holders are in stupid areas, not much room overall, and other stuff I’m sure that I can’t remember.
I had a Camaro as a rental and couldn't drive it because of poor visibility.
Those car drawings and their estimated taxable "value" significantly erode the benefit of the win.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...027-story.html
Additionally, my wife and I always play on one card, sometimes it is hers, sometimes mine, depending on whose offer and hotel room we were using. If a casino pulled the video in order to try to disqualify us on the grounds of another playing on the spouse's card, we would almost always be found "violating" the rules -- Yikes!
The Tribune article sums it up well, Fab.
The Chicago Tribune article reminds me of when my wife and I once won $2,500 in cash for second place at an invitational Golden Nugget slot tournament. That was a while ago and I remember at the award dinner Bob Dancer spent a lot of time dancing with his former wife to the 1950's style band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
We were given a 1099, not a W-2G. So it went into taxable income without any off-set caused by gambling losses. Does anyone know if a large free play payout triggers a taxable 1099? If not, then if I would get a similar prize, I would try to go that route.
FAB
The casino could be sued, but only in tribal court.
Good luck with that: talk about having a deck stacked against you.
Now that the lady has been disqualified by the casino as being the winner, will the casino have a new drawing in order to award the car to someone else?
They should.
I agree, the casino, should award the car to someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Perhaps the tribe will decide to "award" the car to a player in next years drawing???
You're absolutely wrong about this. Read the IRS instructions. You can offset gambling wins reported on a 1099.Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonteThe Chicago Tribune article reminds me of when my wife and I once won $2,500 in cash for second place at an invitational Golden Nugget slot tournament. That was a while ago and I remember at the award dinner Bob Dancer spent a lot of time dancing with his former wife to the 1950's style band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
We were given a 1099, not a W-2G. So it went into taxable income without any off-set caused by gambling losses. Does anyone know if a large free play payout triggers a taxable 1099? If not, then if I would get a similar prize, I would try to go that route.
FAB
Hi Alan:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonYou're absolutely wrong about this. Read the IRS instructions. You can offset gambling wins reported on a 1099.Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonteThe Chicago Tribune article reminds me of when my wife and I once won $2,500 in cash for second place at an invitational Golden Nugget slot tournament. That was a while ago and I remember at the award dinner Bob Dancer spent a lot of time dancing with his former wife to the 1950's style band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
We were given a 1099, not a W-2G. So it went into taxable income without any off-set caused by gambling losses. Does anyone know if a large free play payout triggers a taxable 1099? If not, then if I would get a similar prize, I would try to go that route.
FAB
It was not reported by the casino as a gambling win since I did not "gamble" to win it. The tournament was complimentary with no entry fee, so the Golden Nugget would not issue a W-G gambling but only a standard 1099.
Fab it doesn't matter. The IRS instructions are clear. I once won $1,000 at a drawing at the Bicycle Casino near LA. It's a poker casino. No gambling involved. I got a 1099. If you have losses you can offset the win. It's still lumped in with gambling.
I believe Alan is correct.
While I understand that some casinos won't issue W2-G when no actual "gambling" is involved, one can still claim that the winnings were directly related to gambling -- that you gambled in order to win entry to the contest.
I am not sure how this would be actually declared on a tax form, though.
Dan you report the 1099 and then add it to your other W2Gs. It was about five years ago when I won that drawing at the Bike. So I haven't had this issue since.
Agree. The on-line horse tournaments issue a 1099 rather than a w2g. I have always lumped it with the w2g income and offset it.
Thanks for the info guys.
FAB