Yes, Trump touted this drug as a game changer. 17% greater chance of dying if you take it.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/hy...udy-2020-04-21
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Yes, Trump touted this drug as a game changer. 17% greater chance of dying if you take it.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/hy...udy-2020-04-21
So it was stupid to test the drug for treatment of coronavirus. Is that your opinion of every drug being tested for it?
For the record Trump did not tout the drug as a game changer. He said the drug need to be pursued to see if it would successfully treat coronavirus. However, you libtard fucks always got to twist shit up to make someone look bad. In this case you are the only one that looks bad. Now go climb back under your rock where you love it so well.
The bomb throwing liberal terrorist has returned. Instead of answering thoughtful questions some people have asked him, he goes back to tossing hand grenades. At least he's consistent.
Here's a newsflash MWP. Trump is an optimist. He's looking for solutions. I know you'll have hard time understanding this, being a doom and gloom liberal.
I've been following this debate. My first question is was it a blind or double blind study?
If they deliberately gave the drugs to those more seriously ill it was not a blind study, and you could expect a higher mortality rate among those more seriously ill.
Since the drug was given to veterans at VA hospitals you can also assume that the ages might be skewed to older and we know mortality is higher among older.
There are so many details missing from this report I can't even imagine how it can be considered as meaningful except to those who are against the drug's use.
Why do so many want this drug to fail?
And for the record MWP, this article said no such thing as what you're claiming. The following is what you're claiming the article is saying: "17% greater chance of dying if you take it
Here's what the article really said: "About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died, too, but the difference between that group and those receiving usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival."
Basically there is not enough data to know if it works or not. If you're going to throw out "bombs", please accurately report what article's say. Don't be one of those dishonest liberals and misquote people and articles. Thanks!
Since you are here, redietz will you finally answer the question. With the shelter at home order naturally highway fatalities are way down. 40K people a year die from it. If everyone quit driving those lives would be saved. Would you be willing to give up driving to save those lives?
Redietz, you proved my point. MWP said Trump touted the drug as a game changer. You followed suit with this link. All I had to read was the headline "TRUMP SAYS THESE DRUGS COULD BE GAME CHANGERS IN FIGHT AGAINST VIRUS."
Take a look at these two headlines:
"TRUMP SAYS THESE DRUGS ARE GAME CHANGERS."
"TRUMP SAYS THESE DRUGS COULD BE GAME CHANGERS."
Now, redietz, try some intellectual honesty for a change. Do both headlines mean the same thing? Of course, you and MWP know full well "could be game changers" does not mean the same thing as "are game changers."
It wasn't even a nice try, redietz. All it did was show how intellectually dishonest lefties like you and MWP are.
Red- just remember Galileo. He dropped a heavy weight and a light one atop the tower of Pisa. Despite witnessing WITH THEIR OWN EYES both objects hitting the ground at the same time, they persisted in their own way of thnking. You can't tell these idiots anything.
If the question is, "Would I give up driving for 12-18 months as part of a communal effort to contribute towards saving 30,000 or 40,000 or 100,000 lives," the answer is of course I would.
Comparing traffic deaths to coronavirus deaths is a false equivalence. Traffic deaths are not contagious, multiplying outward. Each accident, unless you get a pile-up in a snowstorm, is its own independent thing. The reason you restrict people during a pandemic is because of contagion.
By the way, I'm a big fan of public transportation. I think it's a shame intercity bus service and train service isn't really a federally funded option. The bus lines have been left to shrivel, and Amtrak's routes have likewise been cut back.
Strawman argument. I didn't compare traffic deaths to coronavirus. Typically, you are being intellectually dishonest again. I asked you if you are willing to give up driving to save lives. Since your response is yes you would, then we can all look forward to your calling for a ban on driving. When will you be making the announcement?
Maybe I should change my sig line.
Who cares what the source was? Why would you need to see any studies? Anyone who would believe that a 100 year old anti-malaria drug would work against a newly emerged, newly mutated VIRAL infection, is an idiot. Malaria isn't even caused by a virus. Let's just dump poisons into our system and hope it flushes it clean. Might as well go back to ingesting mercury or arsenic to cure the plague.
Wasn't there something like this touted in the 1980s or 1990s, for cancer? People who had nothing to lose were flocking to clinics in Tijuana to get poisoned.
Don't make the comparison to Laetrile which was in the 70s, Mr Mdawg. What we're talking about is not a cure. We are talking about a treatment that gives the body time to heal.
Only a fool would take an anti-malaria drug to treat a virus.
Yes, laetrile. I can understand, on some level, a dying person's willingness to take about anything, but just the idea of taking a 100 year old anti-malaria drug to treat a VIRAL infection shocks common sense.
MDawg, just so you’re clear on what this drug is/does. It’s also the main drug used to fight Lupus. I’m sure you know what Lupus is.
The way it works is by settling your immune system down so your immune system can do a better job fighting off infections/viruses. The drug itself doesn’t fight the virus. It’s actually been tried to fight quite a few virus infections and has had mixed results.
It’s obviously not a miracle cure. I expect the reason more people died with the group that took it is because they were further along in their process to death. At some point, it probably doesn’t matter what you take, you aren’t recovering.
Dr. Fauci has said there are no serious side effects from taking it. And it even might show some promise fighting coronavirus. His main point is there needs to be more studies before anybody claims it works.
The way I see it, it can’t hurt. It has shown some success with some patients. Who knows, they might have taken it earlier in their illness, when they still had a chance of recovery. I’m speculating here.
Obviously, the liberal press and the MWP types are looking for any piece of data to try to make Trump look bad.
I’m not as gullible as MWP. I read articles with skepticism and do my own analysis. MidWest Player, on the other hand, pretty much believes anything he reads, as long as it’s anti-Trump.
Like I said
.i.e. I am not making any political commentary. I just speak to the common sense of whether such a drug would even begin to work effectively against ANY viral infection. I actually have some background in this, even though I ended up a lawyer, and you're talking about a disease (lupus) where the treatments are mostly ameliorative. I am not claiming to be an expert on any of this, but even if I knew nothing about medicine at all, I'd never take an ancient unrelated drug like that to try to treat something like this. Would you?
Like I said, there were many doctors that had tried it for treating coronavirus. They didn't try it because it was just some random drug they pulled off the shelf. There was logic behind why they thought it might work.
So, you asked the question? Would I try it? Knowing what they know, and the fact that this drug has been tried in the past to treat some viruses, probably yes.
I mean it can't hurt. I'm sure a lot of other drugs were tried too. There was a doctor on CNN the other day who is 63 and he had recovered from coronavirus. When he was sick, the doctors gave him two drugs he said he thought worked. I'd never heard of these drugs before, and they had long names.
Did they work? Who knows? This doctor was healthy and training for a marathon when he caught this virus, so he'd probably recover without any drugs.
That's the thing about drugs, medicine and people, there are so many variables at play, there is noway anybody can say with any certainty if some are working and some aren't. The placebo effect also cures a lot of people.
But regardless if this drug helps, I think it's pretty stupid to think it's killing people. Like you said, it's been used to fight Malaria and Lupus for a long time. If people with Lupus can handle this drug, I'm pretty sure a semi-healthy person can handle it. This drug didn't kill anybody. It was the coronavirus. MWP thinks this drug is killing people.
Again, I expect the people who were taking it were so far gone nothing would have saved them.
Surprisingly this is about the worst post I've seen recently.
Who would have thought that deliberately infecting children with cowpox would prevent them from getting smallpox? Who would have thought that a chemical derived from some mold would cure polio? Who would have thought giving sailors fruit would cure scurvy?
There's nothing inherently absurd about the hypothesis based on anecdotal evidence that people who were on anti-malarial drugs were not getting COVID.
What certain persons in positions of authority said and did about that hypothesis may or may not be another matter.
Meanwhile they are changing laws or disregarding laws as both sides argue and throw stones.
Civilizations Rise and Fall and nobody stays on top forever.
I just never thought a virus with a 1% mortality rate would destroy America.
Even if the Virus kills 10% of the American Population you still have 295 Million Citizens to pick up the pieces.
The correct answer when someone asks you which family member would you sacrifice is...
ME... I would sacrifice my own life to get everything back up and running.
The point is it shouldn't of been shut down in the first place but now they got the ball rolling and they aren't gonna stop.
China, Iran and Russia are already using the virus to further coordinate their efforts against the United States.
Just a matter of time before this turns into another World War.
Smurger: You're trying to make an empirical argument giving historical examples even more ancient than this anti-malaria drug and trying to say that we should carry on with this sort of hit and miss experimentation. We might need to - in situations where we know nothing about what we are dealing with!
Nowadays we know light years more about the way diseases function, at least to the degree of knowing what category of ailment we are dealing with, and we don't need to guess to the same level of hundreds of years ago. Which was exactly my point in saying that we might as well go back to trying to treat plague with mercury and arsenic. It was patently absurd to think that a class of drug like hydroxychloroquine could, as you put it, keep people from <<getting COVID.>>
People who worked with livestock didn't get the disease. Some other people figured out that cowpox made them immune. This was a very lucky thing, as smallpox was around for a long, long time. Anyway, this is a matter of a vaccine from a lesser form of the disease. Some vaccines use partially live virus, such as for the vaccine for shingles.
"Poliomyelitis, or infantile paralysis, was the most dreaded disease in the United States for much of the 20th century. Salk’s vaccine used inactivated, or “killed,” poliovirus to trigger an immune response against the disease. On April 12, 1955, officials announced the vaccine’s success and launched a nationwide immunization campaign. Within a generation, new cases of polio nearly disappeared."
Someone who wanted some fruit for those long sea voyages? A simple matter of diet.
Is this like the Lupus patients, either, who didn't get it?
Trump was a total fuck-up, from start to finish. Anything for a buck.
". It was patently absurd to think that a class of drug like hydroxychloroquine could, as you put it, keep people from <<getting COVID.>>"
Why? Also just out of curiosity what is your preferred phrasing of the portion you put in quotes?
LMR- I don't understand what the purpose of your post is. Do you think those cures couldn't have been construed as absurd before they were proven to work?
I did however confuse the initial argument for choloroquine being a potential cure with another theory, I can't remember if it was the lupus-related one. After some googling the real argument for testing chloroquine was that it had been beneficial with some similar virus.
There's nothing unusual with any of the above vaccines. The guy who invented penicillin stumbled on to some mold that was growing in one of his experiments. He noticed that it killed the bacteria, or whatever it was that he was trying grow. Nothing new about one thing killing another. If I recall, some fungi kill some molds.
The thing about the HCQ is that persons who actually worked with this, and other drugs, said, from the virus' outset, months ago, that it had been tried, without any success, on every other new disease you can think of. HCQ kills the virus, but, only in a test-tube. I mean, trust the persons who work with the drugs, not some "monkey" doctors who want to make names for themselves.
Funny as hell how Rudy Giuliani was tied up with that Jewish doctor who, supposedly, didn't lose a single patient out of hundreds and hundreds of patients.
Because Trump said the drug may work on coronavirus. Some libtards like LMR (Liberal Mental Retard) and redietz won't have anything to do with anything associated with Trump. They have misrepresented people supporting testing of the drug as thinking it's a miracle cure because Trump mentioned it. They think it will make us look bad and also Trump look bad so they are rooting for the drug to fail.
If the drug fails it means people die. But these libtards don't care if people die as long as they think it will make Trump and supporters look bad. Have you seen redietz or LMR support testing of the drug. Redietz is silent on the issue and LMR just makes sarcastic comments about it. That tells me everything I need to know about those two.
For arguments sake, let's say Hydroxychlorooquine has no impact on treating coronavirus. Who cares? This is not the only drug doctors are looking at. Why is there so much focus on this drug? We all know why. Because Trump brought it up in one of his news conferences. Why did he bring it up? Because there have been two studies, one in China and one in France, where it showed some promise. Trump said he wasn't a doctor. He wasn't giving out orders for everybody to take it, like a Democrat would do. He was just saying it might work.
Trump was just commenting on it, and giving his views on it. Trump is an optimist! He tries to find solutions. He tries to give America hope! This is what a leader does! I know the MWP crowd just want to sit around and hope for the worst, but this isn't the way our side operates. We want our country to succeed! We look for solutions! We don't hide out in our basements, hoping our government takes care of us.
The reason I was against Obama when he was President is because Obama's main goal was to take away our freedoms and give them over to the government. But if a pandemic like we're having now occurred during his presidency, I would have wanted our country to find a way out of it. I would have been rooting for him, unless his solutions were to take my freedoms away, which I'm pretty sure would have been the case.
And I get why people like MWP voted for Obama. He has very little confidence in himself, so he needs the government to make decisions for him. MWP is okay with giving up his freedoms, because he probably thinks the government can make better decisions than he can. And in MWP's case, he's probably right. LOL But this isn't how America became one of the greatest countries ever!
Bottom line is this drug is one of many they are looking at. If it doesn't work, fine, we need to move on. This is what Trump will do. But what he won't do is cower down in some fox hole admitting defeat and preaching doom and gloom like the Democrats.
I recall studying in psychopharmacology that they dumped chromosomes into pure liquid LSD, and, guess what! the chromosomes broke apart. So then some started claiming that LSD destroyed chromosomes. :)
Similarly, if you dumped coronavirus into pure ammonia or ethanol (or hydroxychloroquine) I assume it would put the virus to sleep (you can't really "kill" a virus as it is not alive to begin with, you just stop it from replicating). Doesn't mean we should start drinking heavily or imbibing ammonia (or poisoning ourselves with hydroxychloroquine).
Just common sense.
Excellent comment Mr Mickeycrimm. Many years ago I had a neighbor who was a chemist and worked for Lederle Laboratories just outside NYC. Lederle made medicines.
His job was to take EXISTING MEDICINES to test them against new and different diseases to determine if old medicines had new applications.
It was absurd to think that it would work. All sorts of fringe "scientists" and quacks for hire might decide to test about anything.
Just to be clear, there were both French and Chinese doctors who thought it did something. And there was some evidence it did something against SARS back in 2003, so it's not ridiculous to think it might work for the new type of SARS, Covid-19.
And this wasn't the only drug scientist/doctors were looking at. If it wasn't for Trump mentioning it, most wouldn't even know about. If Trump had mentioned some other drug that showed promise, the liberal press/goofballs would have been off in another direction trying to discredit that drug.
Bottom line is not many people care about this, but the people who are tying to take Trump down.
I think MaxPen makes the best argument.
We will see how Liberal the Democrats really are when the Food and Money run out.
Take away the free rent, food, money, alcohol, and weed and they will rebel faster than the Republicans.
I've been having different "symptoms", everyday now, for the last month. The other day, some tightness in the upper lungs on back. Today, I had actually some blood in some scabby stuff when I blew my nose. I don't think that I have it. Winter is back, so, maybe, that's the problem.
Beyond the usual stuff to think about, did you know that dentists, doctors et al, can be the shittiest people? I mean, Monet has nursing homes "pegged". I mean, the criminal bitches will do and say anything to try to get what they want, and, then, to try to save themselves.
Correct. But only(?) on primate cells.
"We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations."
If the damn thing worked - maybe, there will be a trail with better results - we'd never hear the end of it from you know who. Then, all those countries that hoarded the damn thing would have a veritable market for it.
No more "easy Monet"?
Bob, Bob, what's the problem. Either you can't read, or maybe it's you can't add and subtract. Here is what the article said. "About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone." Now if you can do first grade math 28% minus 11% is 17%. Bob, you are just another Tumptard brain washed by Trump.
First off we all know this test was biased and inaccurate.
Second thing is you and the Liberals just want things like this to occur...
"Banks Funneled Stimulus Funds To Largest Companies To Fatten Fees, Lawsuits Say"
Enjoy staying at home while the poor die from lack of supplies and the rich get richer.
Not exactly sure what this means.
I read it a couple different ways.
Doesn't really matter though.
My situation is unique and unaffected by most of this but it doesn't mean that the world hasn't changed.
Not exactly what I would consider "Good Change" either.
If you want to agree with locking down the world I understand.
I just don't agree with it.
I am pretty much living the "Life of Riley" as usual.
I realize that everything is temporary and I try not to hold on too tight.
Not like anything I say or do in this world is going to matter and I most likely will be burning in Hell soon enough.
Trump, did call this drug a game changer, and by doing so created shortages of the drug that are needed for conditions that it is actually prescribed for like Lupus.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/h...ronavirus.html
MWP, the article goes onto say the two sample sets were different so this doesn’t prove anything. Please reread my quote from the article.
Again, we have no idea how different these two sample sets are because the article doesnt say anything about them. All it says is there were “others factors that could have affected survival.”
MWP, no one is as stupid as you are at birth. It’s like you’re still unable to read and comprehend things. Do you know if you were dropped on your head one too many times when you were a baby? That would explain your current situation.
MWP, did you even read this article? It was actually quite positive on hydroxychloquine, when you read between the lines. It gave an example where 3,000 health care workers were being given this drug as a preventive measure. Do you really think doctors would prescribe a drug to their own health care workers if they thought it wouldn’t help them?
To sum up this article it, more or less, says the jury is still out on this drug and how effective it is at treating the coronavirus. It tries to put a negative spin on it, but if you read through the lines, it’s more positive than I thought. Doctors are using it in a lot of hospitals, and it’s not because of something Trump said at a news conference.
I also looked up your claim of shortages of this drug for patients with Lupus and I couldn’t find one example of this happening. I found many articles (a couple were in The NY Times) that said this could happen, or this was a concern. I couldn’t find any that said this has happened. I found one article that said a Lupus patient “had trouble” filling their prescription, but this could be for many reasons, one being a political agenda against Trump.
Trust me, The NY Times and all your liberal buddies are looking for that one Lupus patient that can’t get this drug. If they find this one patient, trust me, it will make the headlines in all the liberal newspapers. So far it hasn’t happened, so they resorts to fear monger and playing “what ifs. Well so far “what if” hasn’t happened.
MWP, you really need to go back to grade school and take a course on reading. I can see you have a difficult time comprehending things. You see things in articles that aren’t there. Probably because you’ve been a liberal so long your brain no longer functions normally.
Doesn't mean we should start drinking heavily or imbibing ammonia (or poisoning ourselves with hydroxychloroquine). Or does it?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavir...011628091.html
At a White House briefing Thursday, President Trump speculated about whether doctors might try to put disinfectants in the human body to combat the coronavirus, perhaps by an injection.
The rest of you may poison your bodies with hydroxychloroquine. Mine is running FAR too well to leave room for any of those obvious toxins. No thank you!
Everyone knows Hydroxychloroquine is one of many tools. Let the libtards die in the streets drowning on their own snot. Those of us who know, we'll be drinking Hydroxychloroquine laced shots of Lysol.
Do you remember the case of the couple that took the fish tank cleaner that had HCQ in it because "Trump said it was a cure" and the husband died. The media jumped all over Trump because of this couple. And libtards right here in this forum did the same thing. Blaming Trump for it.
Well, guess what. The wife who "miraculously survived" is now being investigated for murder for giving her husband the fish tank cleaner and then blaming it on Trump.
Once again you libtards have shit all over your faces.
Mickey, thanks for following up on that story. It never made any sense. Even a liberal wouldn't be so stupid to take fish tank cleaner as a protection against something most know isn't that dangerous. He was an engineer too. It sounds like she's guilty.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/758487/...trank-cleaner/
Fucking genius getting this information out to the people.
Trump controls you far more than he controls any of these people. You can make up silly labels and jerk-off your buddies under the table but it won't change this fact.
Liberals don't really seem to signal to each other by making up stupid names for people they disagree with. 'trump derangement syndrome'. yea, thats it buddy, on top of it like always. Whats the other one. oh yea, 'orangehairmanbad'. Geniuses. Every fucking single one of them.
Yeah genius they just call everyone they don't agree with "alt-right".
Now that you're done defending liberals, isn't it time you remind everyone that you're "not a democrat", and you "never voted for a democrat president in your life".
I don't care how you vote, but you sound like some twisted up fucking clown who has to apologize and lie about about who you really are.
Yea, what is the alt-right? That is sorta an interesting question. Even the christians seem to be behind everything Trumps stands for 100%.
BTW - alt-right was never used in a derogatory way that much. Maybe you do sit around on 4chan passing memes with your buddies, but those guys really were quite a bit different than what a conservative was previously. I'm talking about the use of dimocrats, libtards, and stupid shit like that. Left doesn't do it near as much. It is almost like slang amongst the right, in that it goes in and out of style.
Danny, you're an idiot like the rest of your crew. I understand you are on your knees mentally and can't think for yourself and someone like me might come off as "twisted" but man up and don't be scared because deep down I'm a better man than most. Thank you!
Only reason I bring up I haven't voted Democrat has been explained before. You guys are so weak that you can't just accept that people dislike Trump on his own merits. So therefore everyone is some sort of Democrat goon. Nope, sorry.
I hear more about Nancy Pelosi from conservatives than I do elsewhere. I never bring those 2 up nor do I defend them. Maybe talked about a bet involving Biden. You mentally put Trump up on a pedestal. You'd literally suck his dick given the chance.
It is not even comparable.
You're losing your shit.
Thank God that you are not defending Pelosi and Biden because then the rest of the membership of the board would have to give you a chain and a badge of courage (just like the cowardly lion). Only then we would litterally report you to the internet police for mental derangement syndrome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trn2lJxl00
Pelosi is Pelosi. Time for her to step down and move on. Not as nutty as OCR or whatever. Biden is pathetic. I mean that is the best the Democrats come up with? I guess old people excite other old people? Like seeing the Rolling Stones live.... I don't fucking get it. Most of Democratic nominees would be an improvement over Biden, except for anyone talking about reparations.