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Once again, I travel to California and get my ass beat hahahha. I'm now down -9810 in 59.5 hours there all time. I know of no counters that have won at Yaamava(San Manuel) or Morongo. I know none that have been backed off at any of these places. NONE of these places sweat the money at all. I split tens like it's going out of style in the hi limit room, no one cares. I backcount all day obvious as hell, no one cares. What's the catch? Who has won here? NO ONE
I'm up 250k in Cali. But I'm not a schizophrenic wannabe AP.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinG
I'm sure jb has mopped up in Cali aswell.
Meh, 30 minute downs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy
Sigh….there’s literally a subforum titled CALIFORNIA/Western Casinos.
If you predicted that BitCoin would hit 50k+ when BitCoin was at 1800 to 2000 and you didn't buy any you would do goofy things like post this thread in the Las Vegas Section too.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcap
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
I've never played BJ in California and I did better than he did.
Zen, maybe your edge is not as sharp as you think it is, maybe you are running bad, maybe trusting self governing casino institutions with an interest in you losing with large sums of money is a terrible idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinG
A, B, C, or all of the above could be true.
I know Colin and the church team swore by the SoCal joints and KC reported to win big in the region in "Inside the Edge".
Of course, you think all of these people are frauds, so...
Edit: 60 hours isn't much of a sample either.
Rounder are you a disciple of Colin Jones and BJ apprentice? I am not a fan, because I don't like the idea of churning out BJ card counters for a profit. And these new players usually have just enough knowledge to fail. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounder
Wikipedia, and we all know what a reliable source that is (if these numbers are way off Colin could have changed them), says the Church Team operated for 6 years from 2006 through 2011 and won 3.2 million dollars in that time. They also had 15 members at any given time. A little grade school division puts that at 35,555 per player per year. Except there were investors that had to be paid first. So it doesn't seem like a great deal of money, when you divide it all out. Now people that run the team like Colin, and I presume were investors as well, made more, but still it just isn't a great deal of money when divided by that many people. :confused:
And for this money, they burned out their names and faces (not to mention games) everywhere, to the point that they now run boot camps and write books. :rolleyes: Plus I always felt the whole concept of the church team was about making the movie more than anything. I think they though it a cool idea a group of supposedly religious players winning money from the casinos, hence the names "The Church Team" and "Holy Rollers".
K.C. I have a little more respect for. At least he played solo and made a million or so for burning out his name and face.
As, you may or may not know, I have taken a different approach to card counting based on longevity. I have identified and play (betting) levels and a style (short sessions to minimize bigger wins in one place that have to be answered for) that has allowed me to play my home base rotation since I relocated to Las Vegas in late 2009. As a player who has opted for longevity and playing limits and style well tolerated, I guess I am just not a big fan of these guys that did the "slash and burn" thing" for a few years. I think they made it worse for the rest of us.
As for Zenking: I don't know that the problem is any of the A, B or C that you listed. I believe ZenKing is a good card counter, but he never learned the normal variance associated with blackjack card counting, nor how to deal with it. Thus, when he is running bad, he screams that everyone is cheating him and when he is running good, tells us he is the "Greatest card counter ever", able to still win, despite being cheated. :rolleyes:
Who cares. Colin is nothing but a "Johnny come lately" when the movie "21" came out and is doing nothing but regurgitating the same stuff from years past. He's nobody special in the world of blackjack and card counting.
I don't know one AP that reports income correctly. It is all underreported. Myself excluded of course
How would you “know this?” Is this really something that AP’s discuss amongst each other, exactly what they do or don’t pay taxes on? Or is it more of an assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPen
No, I trained with Wattenberger's apps but, in practice, I didn't like the high variance, high heat, high awareness, smallish edge attributes of counting. I ended up making a few thousand in the end, but I was up a lot more than that and losing it back was too brutal for me, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJRounder are you a disciple of Colin Jones and BJ apprentice? I am not a fan, because I don't like the idea of churning out BJ card counters for a profit. And these new players usually have just enough knowledge to fail. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounder
Wikipedia, and we all know what a reliable source that is (if these numbers are way off Colin could have changed them), says the Church Team operated for 6 years from 2006 through 2011 and won 3.2 million dollars in that time. They also had 15 members at any given time. A little grade school division puts that at 35,555 per player per year. Except there were investors that had to be paid first. So it doesn't seem like a great deal of money, when you divide it all out. Now people that run the team like Colin, and I presume were investors as well, made more, but still it just isn't a great deal of money when divided by that many people. :confused:
And for this money, they burned out their names and faces (not to mention games) everywhere, to the point that they now run boot camps and write books. :rolleyes: Plus I always felt the whole concept of the church team was about making the movie more than anything. I think they though it a cool idea a group of supposedly religious players winning money from the casinos, hence the names "The Church Team" and "Holy Rollers".
K.C. I have a little more respect for. At least he played solo and made a million or so for burning out his name and face.
As, you may or may not know, I have taken a different approach to card counting based on longevity. I have identified and play (betting) levels and a style (short sessions to minimize bigger wins in one place that have to be answered for) that has allowed me to play my home base rotation since I relocated to Las Vegas in late 2009. As a player who has opted for longevity and playing limits and style well tolerated, I guess I am just not a big fan of these guys that did the "slash and burn" thing" for a few years. I think they made it worse for the rest of us.
As for Zenking: I don't know that the problem is any of the A, B or C that you listed. I believe ZenKing is a good card counter, but he never learned the normal variance associated with blackjack card counting, nor how to deal with it. Thus, when he is running bad, he screams that everyone is cheating him and when he is running good, tells us he is the "Greatest card counter ever", able to still win, despite being cheated. :rolleyes:
Plus, like you mention, I was extremely concerned with longevity.
Serious props to those who can make it happen though.
I found the higher edge, lower variance aspects of multi tabling online poker and other AP more enjoyable for me personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RounderYeah, that does sound super low. I thought they made more like 6 million?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJRounder are you a disciple of Colin Jones and BJ apprentice? I am not a fan, because I don't like the idea of churning out BJ card counters for a profit. And these new players usually have just enough knowledge to fail. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounder
Wikipedia, and we all know what a reliable source that is (if these numbers are way off Colin could have changed them), says the Church Team operated for 6 years from 2006 through 2011 and won 3.2 million dollars in that time. They also had 15 members at any given time. A little grade school division puts that at 35,555 per player per year. Except there were investors that had to be paid first. So it doesn't seem like a great deal of money, when you divide it all out. Now people that run the team like Colin, and I presume were investors as well, made more, but still it just isn't a great deal of money when divided by that many people. :confused:
And for this money, they burned out their names and faces (not to mention games) everywhere, to the point that they now run boot camps and write books. :rolleyes: Plus I always felt the whole concept of the church team was about making the movie more than anything. I think they though it a cool idea a group of supposedly religious players winning money from the casinos, hence the names "The Church Team" and "Holy Rollers".
K.C. I have a little more respect for. At least he played solo and made a million or so for burning out his name and face.
As, you may or may not know, I have taken a different approach to card counting based on longevity. I have identified and play (betting) levels and a style (short sessions to minimize bigger wins in one place that have to be answered for) that has allowed me to play my home base rotation since I relocated to Las Vegas in late 2009. As a player who has opted for longevity and playing limits and style well tolerated, I guess I am just not a big fan of these guys that did the "slash and burn" thing" for a few years. I think they made it worse for the rest of us.
As for Zenking: I don't know that the problem is any of the A, B or C that you listed. I believe ZenKing is a good card counter, but he never learned the normal variance associated with blackjack card counting, nor how to deal with it. Thus, when he is running bad, he screams that everyone is cheating him and when he is running good, tells us he is the "Greatest card counter ever", able to still win, despite being cheated. :rolleyes:
No, I trained with Wattenberger's apps but, in practice, I didn't like the high variance, high heat, high awareness, smallish edge attributes of counting. I ended up making a few thousand in the end, but I was up a lot more than that and losing it back was too brutal for me, tbh.
Plus, like you mention, I was extremely concerned with longevity.
Serious props to those who can make it happen though.
I found the higher edge, lower variance aspects of multi tabling online poker and other AP more enjoyable for me personally.
Understandably. Thanks for the response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounder
yes, it is something that gets discussed privately.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcapHow would you “know this?” Is this really something that AP’s discuss amongst each other, exactly what they do or don’t pay taxes on? Or is it more of an assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPen
You don't pay taxes unless you have a winning year so maxie doesn't have to pay taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPenyes, it is something that gets discussed privately.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcapHow would you “know this?” Is this really something that AP’s discuss amongst each other, exactly what they do or don’t pay taxes on? Or is it more of an assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPen
Let's assume someone has an illegal source of income and they want to launder it.
Assume they gamble regularly in Las Vegas and they are premium players.
Would the IRS red flag their returns if they reported and paid tax on a large amount of (falsified) gambling income / profit without supporting W-2G's for all of it?
There are groups out there that get that sort of thing done. You need to generate the w2-g's. It's kind of a pain in the ass. Because you need to move on after about 9K in any one place. There are much better ways to launder money. But the gambling angle is done by some Asian contingents as a staple.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Have you gentlemen ever thought through the potential ramifications of sports betting in this regard? I seem to sense a lack of worldliness.
Take 30 minutes out of your life and work through the obvious ways and means sports betting could be used to do pretty much whatever you want. Play with the various concepts.
It does seem like a bad idea. Probably much simpler just to open a restaurant and run the cash through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
I mean, you would need a W-2 from another job or another source of income to go along with it anyway, unless they planned to file as a pro.
I wonder how disproportionately people who file as pro get audited vs the general public? I would wager to guess at a much higher rate.
Of course, I'm sure it's highly correlated to the income claimed and also the deductions.
Edit: I don't know exactly how an unemployed person who "gets really lucky" in Vegas and legally needs to file taxes would file as. After reading your post again, it looks like that is the scenario in question?
I'm sure there is some kind of classification for this, but I would think it would probably only work for one year. Maybe two?
At some point you would have to register as a pro, maybe even year one.
As Redietz already stated... Fucking Squares.Quote:
Originally Posted by RounderIt does seem like a bad idea. Probably much simpler just to open a restaurant and run the cash through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
I mean, you would need a W-2 from another job or another source of income to go along with it anyway, unless they planned to file as a pro.
I wonder how disproportionately people who file as pro get audited vs the general public? I would wager to guess at a much higher rate.
Of course, I'm sure it's highly correlated to the income claimed and also the deductions.
Edit: I don't know exactly how an unemployed person who "gets really lucky" in Vegas and legally needs to file taxes would file as. After reading your post again, it looks like that is the scenario in question?
I'm sure there is some kind of classification for this, but I would think it would probably only work for one year. Maybe two?
At some point you would have to register as a pro, maybe even year one.
I give up, clue me in oh sports gambling guru.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I'm a "square"? Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetAs Redietz already stated... Fucking Squares.Quote:
Originally Posted by RounderIt does seem like a bad idea. Probably much simpler just to open a restaurant and run the cash through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
I mean, you would need a W-2 from another job or another source of income to go along with it anyway, unless they planned to file as a pro.
I wonder how disproportionately people who file as pro get audited vs the general public? I would wager to guess at a much higher rate.
Of course, I'm sure it's highly correlated to the income claimed and also the deductions.
Edit: I don't know exactly how an unemployed person who "gets really lucky" in Vegas and legally needs to file taxes would file as. After reading your post again, it looks like that is the scenario in question?
I'm sure there is some kind of classification for this, but I would think it would probably only work for one year. Maybe two?
At some point you would have to register as a pro, maybe even year one.
Are you the same Monet, or are there several?
Are you the same Monet, the grizzled hard ass from the wrong side of the tracks that was just posting in great detail about their fondness for playing with remote controlled toys?
What a "round". I certainly wouldn't want to get caught alone with you in a dark alley.
I stand corrected. Trying to artificially manufacturer and report a gambling win to the Federal Government is a great way to launder some cash vs the myriad of other approaches you could take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVI give up, clue me in oh sports gambling guru.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
As monet suggested, grow up and get a clue. This isn't rocket science. If you don't know anything about the biggest exploding form of gambling, which will overtake all other forms combined in short order, and you don't know anything about how it can work, be at least semi-respectful.
Monet, I get a kick out of ignorance regarding own ignorance these days. I think Bugs Bunny referred to these folks as "maroons." I never liked the whole "ploppies" and "squares" condescending jargon. But maybe Bugs Bunny nailed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
--->Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Bugs (Television Programme).
Moving Pictures (Rush album).
https://anagram-solver.net/I%20give%....?partial=true
The first "readable" answers.
I don't bet sports, never have: not interested in doing so for gambling purposes..
But your claim that it is the bee's knees of money laundering caught my eye.
Whatever, your uppity attitude / thin skin and my genuine lack of need (I currently have no need to launder) causes me to say "meh."
--->Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
The Adventures of Una Persson and Catherine Cornelius in the Twentieth Century.
https://anagram-solver.net/Whatever,...2?partial=true
Your anagram bullshit is the worst Garnabby.
VCT secret codeword, RIP +
--->Quote:
Originally Posted by mcap
Honest (Dave Stewart and the Spiritual Cowboys album).
https://anagram-solver.net/Secret%20....?partial=true
What I was thinking, before I ran it. The anagrams are only that. A neutral backdrop for others to reveal themselves against. Bits of self-evident "truths" along the path. Beats the circular idiocy of many, especially some so-called non-anonymous posters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHTVuguuaBI
Of course, though, it's about standing for the truth. You can beat me, but, you can't beat my friend, the truth. [Well, there is a way, but, I'll let Monet work on it. Ha.]
Btw, Zen, what is it that you exactly think they are doing? Pulling 10s and As out of the shoe?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenKinG
Have you checked out the double deck games? Seems like you could tell in pretty short order on the hand held games if this was the case. If they are not pulling high cards, play the hand helds. Also, if they aren't pulling high cards on the hand helds, they probably aren't on the shoe games.
Then again, the probably do have expert card mechanics on staff for the hand helds to get you. Maybe they are pulling high cards from the shoes and employing card mechanics too??
Diabolical.