My Casino back-rooming.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I'm sure I have wrote about it before. I think it was Alan Mendelson who got argumentative with me when I said they assaulted and back roomed me for simply playing a Video-poker progressive at the Stardust. Im sure I went into details about what happened.

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You probably did talk about it, but I haven't heard it. Stardust before my time though. That is one of the biggest surprises to me is that I thought this era was long gone, although there have been a few cases in recent years, they are fewer and fewer and far between. I guess some casinos are slow to learn. No real surprise to anyone that the one we are talking about is a little slow on the uptake.

Good old Alan Mendelson. :) I do miss Alan. Such a surprise that he would be argumentative though. :D

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

. And let's not forget that kew NEVER FILED A POLICE REPORT. Anyone who wants to believe he did should contact Metro. All the info is available, and kew's name is nowhere to be found in the past 30 days.

Fess up kew--you got caught big-time in your own lie.

And I like it! :)

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

.
In the case that kew presents, a felony was committed by whoever broke his arm. Nothing can prevent the ensuing investigation. So we have to assume Metro is, or has been, busy working on this. That means they are talking to SP.

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Rob because you are having a little too much fun at my expense, and as usual with you most of what you say is complete bullshit, I am going to unequivocally take you down right here and now, AGAIN!

Rob has been posting on a couple forums over and over that I didn't file a police report. In his usual stupid troll-type fashion, he is claiming that a nephew or is it brother-in-law, works for the FBI and has looked into this. I don't know how many times we have heard that bullshit about a family member in some position like this, as a crutch to back up what Rob claims. He has also done it with real estate agent friends as well....one on this forum, girlfriday which Dan Druff exposed as a sock puppet.

Rob's FBI nephew or brother-in-law looked into nothing because Rob doesn't even know my name. I am absolutely 100% positive of this. And without him knowing my name all this kind of crap that he has posted for years having his FBI family members, or CIA friends or whoever look into this or that, is just complete Rob Singer BS, just as everything about this guy is.

So here is my takedown: Rob post my name right here and now. I will take whatever consequences come if you do because I KNOW 100% that you don't know my name so you can't post it. Clock is running tough guy.

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John Smith?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am seriously just trying to figure out how this came to be circulating BEFORE I said a word?.....how did it become known that it was me and circulating prior to my saying anything?

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When and how was it ever established that this story circulated anywhere before you posted about it?

It appears to be just another fabrication on your part....

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I wasn't going to share this on open forum, but it has now become pretty common knowledge throughout the Las Vegas AP community

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You claim that a paper trail exists to corroborate your story...so go right ahead and shut your detractors up by posting a redacted copy of the police report, or the ambulance receipt, the hospital paperwork or even a photo of your injury's treatment.

Make a real effort, besides all of these conflicting and dubious posts.

Also, do I have your permission to post your real name on this forum, without repercussion?

James Grosjean won a 600K, reduced to 400K, judgement against Imperial Palace for illegally detaining him for 45 minutes. And he wasn't gambling. Gaming Control Board had called Imperial and asked them to keep an eye out for Grosjean and call them if they see him. But Imperial fucked up and detained him when they saw him. About 50 minutes later Gaming told them to release Grosjean.

In GWAE interviews Nersesian said Imperial kept trying to settle with Grosjean. They kept upping the money. But Grosjean kept telling them he didn't care about the money. He wouldn't settle for any amount. He wanted a judgement. And he had a good reason for it. The casinos had been getting away with back rooming people with no crime committed for decades. On occasional lawsuits they always settled out of court so there wouldn't be a judgement. They always bought people off for 4 figures or low 5 figures. So they could keep detaining people at will.

But with the Grosjean judgement the casinos could no longer legally detain people without strong suspicion of a crime being committed. We owe Grosjean a big thanks.

After Imperial Grosjean settled with Caesar's for an undisclosed amount but you can bet it was big. Caesar's not only illegally detained him but they sent him to jail. I figure after the Imperial judgement Grosjean settled with Caesar's because the Imperial judgement was enough to get casinos to change policy.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Really Rob, you are still going on with this police report bullshit, even after I just proved you don't even know my name, so there is no way on God's green earth you looked into any police report. YES, police reports are for the most part public and can be obtained, if you know the person's name, which YOU don't. :D

I also have no idea how that works as far as active investigation (not speaking of this case specifically). Is a police report from an active case available to the public? I have no idea. What does your FBI Nephew say Rob? :D (I also have no idea if this is still an active case as far as the police are concern, so I am not saying that either).

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Right kew--proof to you is "because I say so". Can you figure out yet why nobody is buying your highly embellished story?

Maybe you didn't know this when you concocted your story: anyone can go online and request a copy of your police report. That's why you keep wanting it to be that no one, including myself, knows your real name when most people already do. And if you really were injured with a "broken arm" then there'd have been a lot more going on with your case than just you whining about your ineptness to a bunch of goofballs on a forum. In fact you WOULDN'T be saying a thing about it.

This is all due to your detachment from real world experience. You think you can make up just about any scenario on a forum and feed it to the sheep, fully expecting they'll buy it just because you said so. But some aren't sheep, and that's where you and your lies fall apart.

I get it that you think claiming to be assaulted in a "back room" will somehow add to the mystique you think you've created for yourself as a "pro BJ player". Too bad you didn't think things through better first. The gig is up.

Post his name, Rob.

You said you know it.

He says you don't, and he gave you permission in this thread to post it.

So c'mon, Mr. DUB, $1.5M VP winner: time to put up or shut up.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

But with the Grosjean judgement the casinos could no longer legally detain people without strong suspicion of a crime being committed. We owe Grosjean a big thanks.

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Exactly!! X 100 mickey crimm! I have played mostly unmolested in Las Vegas for 14 years with only polite backoffs until this incident. I and other players owe that To James. And Bob.

You said some things I was not familiar with mickey? Was Grosjean involved in 2 different back rooming / illegal detention law suits, one with Imperial Palace and one with Caesars? Was Griffin a co-defendent in one of those because a judgement against Griffin, sent them to bankruptcy.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

James Grosjean won a 600K, reduced to 400K, judgement against Imperial Palace for illegally detaining him for 45 minutes. And he wasn't gambling. Gaming Control Board had called Imperial and asked them to keep an eye out for Grosjean and call them if they see him. But Imperial fucked up and detained him when they saw him. About 50 minutes later Gaming told them to release Grosjean.

In GWAE interviews Nersesian said Imperial kept trying to settle with Grosjean. They kept upping the money. But Grosjean kept telling them he didn't care about the money. He wouldn't settle for any amount. He wanted a judgement. And he had a good reason for it. The casinos had been getting away with back rooming people with no crime committed for decades. On occasional lawsuits they always settled out of court so there wouldn't be a judgement. They always bought people off for 4 figures or low 5 figures. So they could keep detaining people at will.

But with the Grosjean judgement the casinos could no longer legally detain people without strong suspicion of a crime being committed. We owe Grosjean a big thanks.

After Imperial Grosjean settled with Caesar's for an undisclosed amount but you can bet it was big. Caesar's not only illegally detained him but they sent him to jail. I figure after the Imperial judgement Grosjean settled with Caesar's because the Imperial judgement was enough to get casinos to change policy.

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Big settlement offers and they didn't even fracture anything.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Big settlement offers and they didn't even fracture anything.

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No but Grosjean spent several nights in jail and was handcuffed. :confused:

How much is a fractured arm worth? :D nevermind....I guess we will find out. :)

I did meet with the attorney this afternoon and signed a fee agreement and terms, so we are definitely going forward. He didn't say I couldn't talk about it, but I just feel like I shouldn't say too much, as I will likely say something I shouldn't.

I did learn that the security guard no longer is employed by the casino (and I am happy about that). That probably means they throw him under the bus and try to dis-associate themselves from his actions.

I assume your atty is whom we all suspect.

In stumptown cases such as this are handled via contingent fee agreement.

The terms vary, but often the lawyer fronts expenses but gets reimbursed when there is a recovery.

The fee can vary but one-third seems to be the norm; clever lawyers want 1/3 of the gross amount, but savvy client's say "No, it's 1/3 of the net recovery, after subtracting litigation / expert expenses off the top."

As for the amount of the recovery, that depends, at least in therory, on how clearly you can prove and quantify your damages suffered from the tortious conduct.

Presumably you are wearing a cast, or using a sling: that affects mobility and supports a damage claim.

You might want to keep a journal, preferably daily, of your pain and how the injury negatively affects you in your daily activity; not jusg gambling but personal stuff like bathing, dressing, driving.

Have photos taken of the injured limb.

Tell family and friends that they may be called upon to give evidence via affidavit / declaration or at trial.

I will not hazard a guess as to your claim's value, other than to say it likely won't be really substantial without proof of permanent injury.

As for wage loss, that is an interesting issue as your pursuing the claim may result in publicity with the casinos finally learnign your identity.

If that happens your ability to play and count will likely go down the rat hole, causing a loss in income.

A claim for expected wage loss over your life time could help pad the value of your damage claim; that is an area for experts.

You say you've filed taxes and reported gambling income: that will be key to any wage loss claim; without that corroboration it a claim for wage loss would likely be a non-starter.

If it turns out that your exposure as a counter makes it so that you're basically unable to play via card counting in sin city then consider hiring an expert to quantify the cost of you retraining in another profession that would allow you to earn comparable income, as well as the time it would take to reach it: that would be compensable.; the argument being "I'd still be counting and making good money but for the tortious conduct."

Best of luck and yeah, sue the bastards!

"Break my arm, will ya? I'll show you..."

I would like to confirm and verify some things from your post and clarify some things MrV, but I am not going to. I know you understand.

What is this stumptown reference? Movie? Tv show? Googling, I see a tv show by that name but it looks like it takes place in your area, not Vegas.

"Stumptown" is the old nick name for Portland, Oregon, once a thriving logging area and still a port city.

As an interesting aside: back in the day there were bars on the riverfront here with tunnels from the basement to the wharf; drunken patrons would be knocked out and dragged through the tunnels and put involuntarily on ships, i.e. they were shanghaied.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

"Stumptown" is the old nick name for Portland, Oregon, once a thriving logging area and still a port city.

As an interesting aside: back in the day there were bars on the riverfront here with tunnels from the basement to the wharf; drunken patrons would be knocked out and dragged through the tunnels and put involuntarily on ships, i.e. they were shanghaied.

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My mistake MrV. I thought your Stumptown reference was to Vegas, which is why it didn't make sense to me. I now see you were saying "here in Stumptown...."

IIRC, Nersesian gets a 5K or 10K retainer to start a case.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

But with the Grosjean judgement the casinos could no longer legally detain people without strong suspicion of a crime being committed. We owe Grosjean a big thanks.

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Exactly!! X 100 mickey crimm! I have played mostly unmolested in Las Vegas for 14 years with only polite backoffs until this incident. I and other players owe that To James. And Bob.

You said some things I was not familiar with mickey? Was Grosjean involved in 2 different back rooming / illegal detention law suits, one with Imperial Palace and one with Caesars? Was Griffin a co-defendent in one of those because a judgement against Griffin, sent them to bankruptcy.

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With Imperial Grosjean didn't actually play anything. He just arrived on the property and they detained him and roughed him up. In Caesar's he was playing blackjack when they grabbed him. He went to jail for 5 days. Griffin was a co-defendent in the lawsuits because it was their work that put the casino heat on Grosjean. They were on the hook to pay part of the judgement. They wound up filing bankruptcy. Don't know how much he ever got out of them. But it was the demise of Griffin. They've never come back to what they were before the lawsuit.

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...-to-the-forum/

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Originally Posted by jbjb

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...-to-the-forum/

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Excellent read! Thank you for posting

After someone sent me this thread, I had to make an account and post because holy shit bud. I read through this thread quickly and after ignoring all the weird hate speech and generic "casinos are evil" talk, here is what you need to do based on the facts you presented:

Sue immediately. This will never go to trial, the media would never be involved, and they would settle at the very minimum for an insurance offer of like $50k+.

Imagine you are on a jury of your peers and you get jury duty and you are presented with a case where a man is back-roomed by a casino for no legal reason and they literally fracture his arm like in the movie Casino. No one will side with the casino. The casino won't allow it to even get this far because they know they have 0 case.

Look at the Virgin River lawsuit - the guys were held in a hotel room for 20 mins and won $200k. Another person I know sued Bellagio after being held in back room for 5 hours (no injury, no jail) and settled for $70k. Yet another person I know was tackled at a casino in Vegas and sued and settled for $80k a few months later. All of these cases were handled by Bob N.

A lot of APs tend to have this delusion in their head (respectfully) that everyone in the world is out to get them and everyone is watching them. This won't go to trial and even if it did no other casino will hear or care about it and everyone will continue not knowing who you are.

On a side note, having personally worked with Bob N on two prior cases, a few things don't add up here. Casinos don't hand out security footage just because a preservation of evidence was sent to them. They never want to turn anything over and fight against it. You would only get this in discovery after a lawsuit filing. Also, I've never heard Bob once advocate for a big media push. You haven't even filed a lawsuit yet.

The prudent strategy here (if this is a genuine story):

1. Have Bob send a demand letter threatening a lawsuit if no settlement. He will do this on a way lower fee/share of settlement if you get something before an actual lawsuit is filed.

2. Then if they don't agree, file the lawsuit, but don't do any sort of media thing (which he would never recommend). Just wait to get a settlement. The MOST common tactic is to do discovery and wait until trial scheduling period. This is usually 1-2 years after the filing. Then like 1-4 weeks before the trial date offer a settlement. Casino has no incentive to pay you settlement now as opposed to 2 years from now.


And hey, if all else fails, you can just fake your own death (again).

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Originally Posted by IamQueensBlvd

This won't go to trial and even if it did no other casino will hear or care about it and everyone will continue not knowing who you are.

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Thank you for taking the time to create an account and share your advice, IamQueensBlvd. I could have done without the fake your own death again, dig, but that is ok. ;)

I have heard from so many AP's and players that aren't members here, even before I even posted sharing this experience.

So my question pertains to this line quoted. Why do you think other casinos aren't going to learn of this? or care? That seems strange to me. Surely this kind of thing, even if settled "quietly" will get around the tight knit casino industry of Las Vegas if not other locations, no?