taxes.... Prof gambler vs not....

I know the internet is not always the best place to ask for tax advice, but I am trying to plan ahead for this coming year. I plan on having several w2gs this year. It is my understanding that if my w2gs exceed the standard deduction (24k) married filing jointly), that I can itemize deductions and thereby write off losses to offset wins. What if my w2gs exceed my salary at work (if I keep my job entire year, approaching borderline leaving)? If they exceed my job income do I then file (have to?) as a professional gambler? What should I be tracking as of January? I am tracking daily wins and losses. A daily log with all machines played would be crazy, I play in about 7 or 8 properties a day at about 30+ machines a day. And casinos will not give out your "detail history" just a won/loss statement.

Also the wife makes a good salary (over 60k) would it ever be better for me to file separately from her?

If this requires a professionals help for the first year that I will be showing this much gambling income, Are there any recommendations of where to go in Vegas? in Vegas, I am sure many tax professionals are familiar with gambling income.

Yes, for definitive advice see a tax professional.

You will not qualify to file as a professional gambler unless that is your primary occupation, and as you have a "real job" you don't qualify, even if the amount of the W-2G's exceeds your earnings.

Don't forget that you can deduct and offset gambling losses against gambling winnings on your return when you itemize.

A W2-G is just a record that you received a payment. The total of your W2-G's is not the number that goes on the tax form under "other income." Per the IRS you are required to keep a log book. Every session you play you log in what you won or lost. At tax time you total the winning sessions and total the losing sessions. The total of your winning sessions goes into the line "other income." The total of your losing sessions goes into a different line on the tax form. Whatever the difference, that's what you owe income tax on.

Let's say, in an individual session you were $1200 stuck then hit a $4000 royal and quit for the day. What do you put in your log book? You log it in as a $2800 winning session. The W2-G is irrelevant.

You can have $100,000 in W2-G's but if your winning sessions total to $200,000 and your losing sessions total to $180,000 then you only owe tax on $20,000. That is, unless you have other expenses to write off.

The 2019 edition of Tax Help For Gamblers by Jean Scott, Marissa Chien and Russel Fox is scheduled to be released late February or early March. Chien and Fox are highly experienced tax preparers for gamblers.

Careful here. You must report all W2Gs whether you have a profit or not.

I really think TheShadow needs to consult with a tax professional if he has questions about the IRS instructions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Careful here. You must report all W2Gs whether you have a profit or not.

I really think TheShadow needs to consult with a tax professional if he has questions about the IRS instructions.

---

You don't "report" w2gs or 1099s. The IRS receives them from whoever has to file them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by quahaug

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Careful here. You must report all W2Gs whether you have a profit or not.

I really think TheShadow needs to consult with a tax professional if he has questions about the IRS instructions.

---

You don't "report" w2gs or 1099s. The IRS receives them from whoever has to file them.

---

Please, TheShadow. See a tax professional. On forums you'll get tied up over definitions of words like "report."

Welcome to the forum.

Gambling Winnings. ... You must report all gambling winnings on your Form 1040.pdf as "Other Income" (line 21), including winnings that aren't reported on a Form W-2G.pdf. When you have gambling winnings, you may be required to pay an estimated tax on that additional income.Mar 13, 2018
Gambling winnings - IRS.gov

I would have gotten fucked by the IRS had I filed accurately recently.

When determining whether one qualifies for an IRA, the IRS looks only at the adjusted gross income on the return, which would include the yearly gambling winnings reported on line 21 of the 1040 but would not allow adjustment via subtracting gambling losses.

So I only reported the W-2G income and thus qualified.

Stupid IRS rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Careful here. You must report all W2Gs whether you have a profit or not.

I really think TheShadow needs to consult with a tax professional if he has questions about the IRS instructions.

---

Alan, consulting "a tax professional" does not mean that person has experience with tax returns for gamblers. I listed two tax professionals that have extensive experience with gambler tax returns. I'm sure they are easy to find on the internet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheShadow7478

I know the internet is not always the best place to ask for tax advice, but I am trying to plan ahead for this coming year. I plan on having several w2gs this year. It is my understanding that if my w2gs exceed the standard deduction (24k) married filing jointly), that I can itemize deductions and thereby write off losses to offset wins. What if my w2gs exceed my salary at work (if I keep my job entire year, approaching borderline leaving)? If they exceed my job income do I then file (have to?) as a professional gambler? What should I be tracking as of January? I am tracking daily wins and losses. A daily log with all machines played would be crazy, I play in about 7 or 8 properties a day at about 30+ machines a day. And casinos will not give out your "detail history" just a won/loss statement.

Also the wife makes a good salary (over 60k) would it ever be better for me to file separately from her?

If this requires a professionals help for the first year that I will be showing this much gambling income, Are there any recommendations of where to go in Vegas? in Vegas, I am sure many tax professionals are familiar with gambling income.

---

Shadow--the question is not whether your W2G's exceed the Standard Deduction. The question is whether your deductions such as mortgage interest, real estate taxes, gambling losses, and the few other allowable deductions will exceed the Standard Deduction. You can then choose whether to use the Standard Deduction or itemize your deductions. Whichever reduces your taxes the most should be used.

You should keep accurate records, including serial numbers of the machines. If you haven't done so to date, start now. You will only have missed one month.

You probably aren't a "professional gambler" but we would need a lot more info to be certain.

It is usually not beneficial to file married/separate. However, again, do the returns both ways and see what you come out with. But you can't change year to year. Once you change you are stuck for a while.

And I am not now in any way representing you or giving legal or accounting advice. I am merely participating in a public forum for entertainment purposes and you are not to rely upon any statements made herein.

He'll get hosed if he takes the standard dedction, as the only way he can deduct / offset gambling losses against winnings is by itemizing.

The last thing he wants to do is be required to report all gambling winnings on his 1040 but not be able to deduct / offset losses against them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by regnis

You should keep accurate records, including serial numbers of the machines. If you haven't done so to date, start now. You will only have missed one month.

You probably aren't a "professional gambler" but we would need a lot more info to be certain.

---

One thing I have noticed at casinos is that a lot of people have photographic memories. I never see them recording anything in a log book or anywhere else. Or maybe some of them don't have photographic memories and are recording their sessions (possibly against casino policy) through some sort of micro-sized device. I suppose I am one of the rare few at the casino who does not have an eidetic memory since the only way I could keep track of wins and losses and machine numbers would be to record them (which of course I do at every turn).

that is the question somewhat.... If i have 2k in w2gs no way I can itemize. If i have 20k or so+ in w2gs then i have enough to itemize deductions. Property taxes, mortgage interest and about nothing else is itemize able (thats only about 5k total)

[/QUOTE]

Shadow--the question is not whether your W2G's exceed the Standard Deduction. The question is whether your deductions such as mortgage interest, real estate taxes, gambling losses, and the few other allowable deductions will exceed the Standard Deduction. You can then choose whether to use the Standard Deduction or itemize your deductions. Whichever reduces your taxes the most should be used.

You should keep accurate records, including serial numbers of the machines. If you haven't done so to date, start now. You will only have missed one month.

You probably aren't a "professional gambler" but we would need a lot more info to be certain.

It is usually not beneficial to file married/separate. However, again, do the returns both ways and see what you come out with. But you can't change year to year. Once you change you are stuck for a while.

And I am not now in any way representing you or giving legal or accounting advice. I am merely participating in a public forum for entertainment purposes and you are not to rely upon any statements made herein.[/QUOTE]

Article on Marissa Chien from a few years ago:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tKvBP0TQ-Api8p

[/QUOTE]Shadow--the question is not whether your W2G's exceed the Standard Deduction. The question is whether your deductions such as mortgage interest, real estate taxes, gambling losses, and the few other allowable deductions will exceed the Standard Deduction. You can then choose whether to use the Standard Deduction or itemize your deductions. Whichever reduces your taxes the most should be used.[/QUOTE]

While I haven't looked into it, I suspect that someone can itemize even if they don't have mortgage interest and real estate taxes, e.g. if they're in a rental; just having enough gambling losses should qualify.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterV

Yes, for definitive advice see a tax professional.

You will not qualify to file as a professional gambler unless that is your primary occupation, and as you have a "real job" you don't qualify, even if the amount of the W-2G's exceeds your earnings.

Don't forget that you can deduct and offset gambling losses against gambling winnings on your return when you itemize.

---

A lot of folks file as a professional gambler even though it isn't their primary occupation. You have to run your gambling like a business. Keep records and logs and show a profit motive. The IRS will want to see that you are actually an advantage player and can consistency make a profit. Here is an example. MathProf who use to post on BJ21 before he died was a full time college professor for 9 months out of the year. He would take his summers off and play blackjack. He would file as a business on Sch C. The IRS audited him and tried to say it wasn't his primary occupation. He said bullshit and appealed the ruling. He fought the IRS and won. The IRS backed down and accepted his return as filed. I also believe Bootlegger who was a well known blackjack player also filed as a business even though he had another full time job.

Now I'm not a tax expert, but a lot of folks have mentioned over the years on various forums how they file. See a tax professional.

That is correct. It does not have to be your sole or primary profession. You must operate it in a manner that reflects a desire and intent to profit and you must operate it as a business similar to the manner that you would operate any other business.

There was an entire thread arguing whether or not you could have multiple Schedule Cs and if you really needed gambling to being your primary source of income.

No poster should ever trust a forum for gambling tax info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

No poster should ever trust a forum for gambling tax info.

---

True dat; see a pro.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

There was an entire thread arguing whether or not you could have multiple Schedule Cs and if you really needed gambling to being your primary source of income.

No poster should ever trust a forum for gambling tax info.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Fuck you.

---