Burn through RC's to get comps from Casino Host?

Used to play slots exclusively at Las Vegas Hilton up until a few years ago. 2 or 3 trips a year. 6-10 hours a day, $1.50-$2 a spin. Enough to get great comps including, free play, suite and anything I wanted to eat. Hilton's closed and I had a contact from an old host of mine who now works at Caesars. I now play total rewards properties almost exclusively for the past 3 years.

I still visit Vegas 2 or 3 trips a year. 6-10 hours a day, $1.50-$2 a spin or more if I'm on a roll. It's fun. I'm Diamond (all 3 years) aspirations 2 currently and will probably be Diamond aspirations 3 this year. Problem is, in 3 years with Total rewards, other than the free play mail offer and the free room with it, I've yet to receive a comp from my host.

This idea that I can only get a comp when my RC's are used up bothers me. Like others on this site, I'm banking up my RC's. I have $800 saved up but I don't know why. I kind of feel like they owe me some comps.

I'd also really hate to burn through my comps and bill some additional meals to my room to find out those wouldn't be comped.

Anyone have any suggestion for me to maximize my comps? I really like my host, she's very attentive and she's wanted to comp me things but can't because of my RC balance. Thanks.

Hi. I guess you actually asked and your host said no to discretionary comps. If its any consolation I am Seven Stars and I don't get them either. I would be cautious about burning RCs since I don't know when discretionary comps start...how much play is needed.

Don't do it.

You will not get many comps from your host, and they will not believe you are "owed" anything, as hosts give you discretionary play based upon what you're doing recently, not what you've done in the past.

They will encourage you to burn your RCs so they have the control. That is, you will feel required to play to get anything, whereas you will be able to comp yourself with your RCs regardless of whether you play or not.

Just stay in free rooms using your offers, use your RCs for food, and run your freeplay. Don't bother with the host unless you need an exception made for something or if your RCs are gone. Definitely don't waste your RCs.

Hi CCERTS,

I will toss in my two cents based on my own experience. I believe you should consider using up your accumulated Reward Credits on free play and then utilize discretionary comps through your host. But perhaps you should first chat with your host so that you are not unpleasantly surprised.

By way of background I followed my Ceasars Palace host from Venetian when he shifted over about four years ago. At the time Venetian was establishing a new “strategy” wherein it essentially no longer providing free room or free play unless you were a certified whale – I am not one by its definition. I believe that recently Venetian concluded this was a bad idea and changed back. At the time Venetian was also apparently driving its experienced hosts out and so Wife and I followed our host to Ceasars Palace. Partly because of our previous relationship, I believe that our host has been able to maximize the comps we are entitled to through the CET system. And even before we were Seven Stars, he often got us suites, baskets, limo and shows.

We have rarely accumulated a lot of Reward Credits. This is for several reasons. One, because I am only free to visit casinos on weekends I cannot play on multiple point days which are often on weekdays. Second, we like to see shows including Cirque de Soliel shows that are not at CET facilities, Wife likes massages, and we both like to indulge in CET high quality restaurants. So whenever we go play at Ceasars we charge comps to the room and upon checkout the accumulated Reward Credits get wiped out and the rest are taken cared of by our host. This is above and beyond the average of $1000 free slot pay we usually get as part of the offer we use when we come in. Wife likes the slots but does put in time with me on Video Poker. Occasionally, when Wife and I have some bad luck on a trip, we get “air fare reimbursement” too through the host.

I have had conversations with my host about CET’s comping guidelines and regularly touch base based on my expected charges on a trip. While I have never received an explicit formula, I was essentially told that CET has given hosts substantial comping authority above and beyond the accumulated total reward points, particularly as to the current trip. So far after some two dozen trips to Ceasars, I have never been disappointed or misled by our host. I know he has to first burn through the Total Reward credits but I have rarely gotten more than a 7,500 in Reward Credits accumulated ($75 value) at the time we checkout. I have NEVER had to pay money at checkout at Ceasars other than for tips.

The only recent time we had accumulated a lot of reward credits was after I had my Seven Stars Retreat to New Orleans and had more than 50,000 Reward Credits after that trip. The next trip to Lake Tahoe, I went to the Total Rewards desk and swapped Reward Credits for $500 in free play (Seven Stars has a ratio of 12,500 Reward Credit equal $100 Free Play). When I checked out, another 10,000 in Reward Credits were wiped out before the other charges (including Steakhouse charges) were written off by the host on duty. I wondered if I left too much meat on the bone by not converting those credits to free play prior to checkout.

You say you have an old host you followed from Hilton. I would chat with your host and ask him or her hypothetically if based on your historical and expected play whether CET would comp the food and events you like to indulge in regardless of your Reward Credit balance. If the answer is “yes” or “probably” then if I were you, I would convert the 80,000 in reward credits you have in your account to free play so that you do not have a lot to get wiped out on check out and let your host take care of you with your discretionary comp allowance.

You describe some substantial slot action on your trips. Casinos love slot players. But CET does not love video poker players as much because for them CET theoretical win is less than for slots. I understand that Dan and Alan are not slot players so their mileage may vary. But I think that your decision to bank Reward Credits has prevented you from fully utilizing the benefits you are entitled under CET’s idiosyncratic comping system. Independent of offers in the mail, at CET there are two buckets for you to draw comps from. Your reward credits and your discretionary comps. Note I did not say your host’s discretionary comps because YOU earned them – not your host. You need to work the system CET has set up so I would convert your Reward Credit bank to free play and let you host take care of your trip charges by using YOUR discretionary comps that will otherwise evaporate.

FABismonte, I hate to ask for personal info but in this case I think it is important that we discuss actual "cash outlays" at the casinos. Discretionary comps are probably always available for heavy players. If you had 50,000 reward credits accumulated after your trip to New Orleans I am going to take a guess that your "coin in" at video poker was probably around a half-million dollars. If so, that puts you in a category that a $2 slot player who is a Diamond, isn't close to getting.

I am all in favor of getting discretionary comps when possible -- but it would be a big mistake to use up your reward credits only to find that there are no discretionary (host comps) coming to you.

Tremendous replies thank you.

I know my host doesn't owe me anything, but after 10 trips of 6-10 hours a day, $1.50-$2 a spin slot play and the losses that come with that, it'd be nice to get something more than just the room and slot play. Based on past play, my host has told me that had I not had a RC balance that more things could have been comped. Such as $200 for 4 people at Bacchanal Buffet I used my RC's for last trip.

I'm going in 3 1/2 weeks to Caesars LV on a $700 freeplay mailer and I'm not going to play have the time for my usual play since this is a family trip. Usually my mailers are $400-$500 freeplay, but the last time I went in March, I'd hit a couple $2k slot wins and was betting more than my normal.

Of course, I'm not that close to my host AND there always is that mystery of what they will or will not comp. And since I'm not going to play have the time for my usual 6-10 hours a day play since this is a family trip, I don't want to risk billing too many extras to my room.

I'm thinking of booking an imaginary SPG trip for 2015 using $550 RC's. Leaving me with a $250 balance. I'll be less stingy and bill maybe $400 to my room to see if my host will comp the $150 difference. After I return from Vegas, I'll then cancel my imaginary SPG trip and get back my $550 RC's. This should work and be a good test of what my host can do for me.

Hi Alan:

Thanks for your sensitivity as to personal info. As you can guess, like most people I am not interesting in disclosing more personal information than is necessary on this or any other forum.

The only reason I had more than 50,000 total reward credits is because when one takes a Seven Stars Retreat to Harrah's New Orleans, they do not put $500 in expenses on a folio like most CET hotels (on a use it or lose it basis), instead Harrah's New Orleans puts 50,000 reward credits on your account that you can use even after you leave.

You point out that CCERTS is only Diamond, but I was only a Diamond for three years until December 2013 when I made Seven Stars for the first time. I still have not made Seven Stars this calendar year. For discretionary comps I believe what is important is not the tier accumulation of a player but the Average Daily Theoretical "ADT" (and sometimes the actual loss). Exclusive video poker players accumulate relatively high amounts of tier scores but low ADT compared to slot players.My Wife likes to play slots and no doubt it is a big reason we get discretionary comps. Also if you concentrate your play on a few days a year you will hit a much higher ADT. Players, particularly video poker players, who drive in out for short plays on many days over the year will have correspondingly lower ADT.

Finally, I was not providing advice to the world but responding to a particular member of the forum. CCERTS claims middle to higher Diamond for three years. CCERTS also says that he/she does slots "2 or 3 trips a year. 6-10 hours a day, $1.50-$2 a spin." That is pretty substantial ADT on three major characteristics: (1) concentrated in a few days; (2) hours per day; (3) slots at $1.50 to $2 per spin. This indicates to me that CCERTS is leaving a lot of discretionary comps on the table.

But just in case I am mistaken, I invited CCERTS to consult his or her long time host. Unlike Dan (who admits no host wants to give him the time of day) or others who have idiots for hosts, I assume that this long time host who convinced CCERTS to follow from the Las Vegas Hilton, will give a realistic estimate of comps, set expectations and not disappoint CCERTS.

Hi Ccerts:

After your trip, please report back and let us know how the strategy fared.

FAB is probably right.

He should just start an honest dialogue with his host and ask what would realistically be comped if he keeps to his normal level of play.

If his play is fairly consistent, this should be easy to predict. Where hosts get sketchy is where you have a "play a lot, then play very little" pattern.

The problem with him being Diamond and exchanging his RCs for freeplay is that he gets an awful 1.75:1 exchange rate. For 1.25:1, it's obviously much more reasonable to do that. But if he really has no use for his RCs, he should probably do that. I think I'd prefer just to have a few really nice meals in the restaurants instead, especially since you don't pay tax (when using RCs).

BTW FAB, do you know the trick to get the best seats at the Cirque shows? It involves a small degree of risk (that is, risk of missing the show), but you get killer seats for the same price that others pay for the "good but not great" (best you can buy) seats.

I almost always sit in some of the best seats in the house.

Hi Dan:

I am all ears. Pray tell.

Regards, FAB

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Originally Posted by FABismonte

Hi Ccerts:

After your trip, please report back and let us know how the strategy fared.

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I most certainly will give an update! I will also start an honest dialogue with my host, though this trip my play won't be as high. Hosts do get 'sketchy', but I haven't asked for anything before.

Thanks!!

Regarding shows, I have a trick that works to get EXCELLENT SEATS (like nearly the best in the house) to any show, but it also requires being willing to spend some money. It also requires being willing to occasionally fail and not see the show at all. Here is the trick:

Wait until about 60 minutes before showtime. Go to the show's box office IN PERSON (do NOT call or go online). If there is a "cancellation line" (O has this), get in that line. Otherwise, just get in the regular line. When you get to the front, tell them that you know that the casino releases some good seats close to showtime, and you want to buy one of those. Ask what time those seats are released. Do NOT take "no" for an answer -- at least not until you argue back for awhile. Do not accept bullshit like, "There are no casino seats released", "The computer just gets them and spits them out into the general tickets sold", "We don't know when or how this happens", etc. EVERY MAJOR SHOW is like this. Anyway, once you find this out, ask what you need to do to buy the seats. You might have to come back about 15 minutes before showtime. Make sure they show you EXACTLY where you will be sitting. Don't just take their word for it that the seats are good. Do not ever commit to buy anything without seeing the actual seats, unless they promise to give you a refund if the seats suck. At Bellagio (O), you can reject the seats if you don't like them, but you have to get back in the cancellation line if you want to try again. Do that repeatedly until the good seats come up. They usually will. You will still usually have to pay for the top-tier level of seats, which is usually $100-$250 each, but you will be sitting in the very best seats in the house. Occasionally you will fail and have to try again later. I have been successful with this about 90% of the time. Most times they actually show respect for my knowledge of the situation and just give me the best seats right away. Sometimes you need to ask for a supervisor if the ticket agent is clueless.

Dan, regarding show seats: this is when you should talk to a host. I've been in the host's office when they had tickets sitting on the desk and they were just handed to me at no charge.

I saw Celine a total of 12 times at Caesars. Only once was I charged for tickets (paid with comp dollars) and every other time the tickets were either promotional or just free.

My favorite story was when I was in the old VIP office which was near the pool at Caesars, and a high roller storms in and demanded better seats for the show -- which was sold out. When she couldn't get better seats she asked me if I wanted them -- and yes I took them. Free, even though I offered her cash for them. They were second level, center, in the front. Great view.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Dan, regarding show seats: this is when you should talk to a host. I've been in the host's office when they had tickets sitting on the desk and they were just handed to me at no charge.

I saw Celine a total of 12 times at Caesars. Only once was I charged for tickets (paid with comp dollars) and every other time the tickets were either promotional or just free.

My favorite story was when I was in the old VIP office which was near the pool at Caesars, and a high roller storms in and demanded better seats for the show -- which was sold out. When she couldn't get better seats she asked me if I wanted them -- and yes I took them. Free, even though I offered her cash for them. They were second level, center, in the front. Great view.

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Alan, unfortunately I don't see them giving them to me because I am already overcomped.

The one time I did ask for seats (before I really understood the whole "use your RCs up" thing), the host wanted to charge me $768 in RCs for the "comped" tickets.

I am afraid this will never work for me because I don't see myself putting in any kind of action in Vegas, as the VP sucks there. And the action I put in at a place ike Rincon or Tahoe wouldn't impress them much in Vegas, given my history of using Vegas for comps and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

And the action I put in at a place ike Rincon or Tahoe wouldn't impress them much in Vegas, given my history of using Vegas for comps and nothing else.

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As an experiment, you might want to call a host at Rincon or at Tahoe and ask them what they can do for you in Vegas. I mention this because I know a Rincon player who went through a host at Rincon and booked a trip to Vegas and got various extras he thought he wouldn't get. And it was based on his play at Rincon.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

As an experiment, you might want to call a host at Rincon or at Tahoe and ask them what they can do for you in Vegas. I mention this because I know a Rincon player who went through a host at Rincon and booked a trip to Vegas and got various extras he thought he wouldn't get. And it was based on his play at Rincon.

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Tried it before. Was denied. And this was when I was playing actively at these properties.

OK! I just booked 3 Nights in Orlando next February using $650 in Total Rewards points through the SPG alliance. Now I've only got a $150 Total Rewards Balance and am curious to see what my host will be able to comp me (since hosts can't give you discretionary comps when you have a TR balance) at the end my trip next week to Caesars LV.

My wife wants to have a massage at Qua Spa, plus we're thinking about a couple meals at Caesars. Billing everything to my hotel room. Are there any restaurants in Caesars that have separate ownership from Caesars that might not be able to be comped that I should avoid?

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Originally Posted by ccerts

My wife wants to have a massage at Qua Spa, plus we're thinking about a couple meals at Caesars. Billing everything to my hotel room. Are there any restaurants in Caesars that have separate ownership from Caesars that might not be able to be comped that I should avoid?

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Central, the 24 hour restaurant in the lobby, is independently owned -- and not owned by Caesars. However they do accept Reward Credits if you pay the check with the Total Rewards card and you can charge the check to your room and pay with comps later. If you try to use the Total Rewards Gift Card -- Central will NOT accept it. I know this -- I tried to use a TR gift card. Instead, I charged it to my room and THEN I paid with my TR gift card.

All other restaurants at Caesars are owned by Caesars, even those with the fancy Chef's names are owned by Caesars.

Thanks Alan. Great information. I'll be sure to provide a trip report upon my return!