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Thread: Check your comp rating, and then check your account regularly.

  1. #1
    We've discussed this many times: if you are a table player, it is important to "check out" with the floorman or dealer who rates your play to be sure your rating is accurate. Unlike with slot machine and video poker machines that record your play through a reader with your card inserted, table play usually requires someone to watch your play and to record it.

    With table play, the amount of your bet can vary. For example, if there is a good run of passes and numbers with a shooter at craps, basic bets can be pressed to many times their original value. A good floorman will keep track of your "average bet" but even that can be off. Your average bet can be discussed and even negotiated.

    Usually your time is noted when you start, but if the floorman or pit boss changes shifts during the time of your play, be sure the new floorman or pitboss is following your bets.

    When you leave the game check out with the person recording your play to be sure it is entered into the official record which might be a computer terminal in the pit.

    What you might not do -- and I found out recently that it's a good idea also -- is that you monitor your account to be sure the points and play are recorded on your account and that no one tampers with your account.

    I just had an incident where $600 worth of "points" were deducted from my account at a local casino. This happened after I purchased $600 of Shell gas cards at the casino's gift shop. At the time of the purchase $600 worth of comp points were deducted from my account, but a couple of weeks later another $600 worth of points were deducted from my account again.

    Based on what I was told, here is the chain of events according to the casino's management:

    1. I made a purchase for gas cards worth $600 of comp points. I received the cards at the gift shop and $600 worth of comps were deducted from my account. That is what should happen. I had the gas cards, and the comp dollars were deducted.

    2. But days later, someone working at the casino then entered that I returned the $600 purchase, but there was no credit of $600 in comps made to my account when this happened. It is possible that the $600 credit went to someone else's account.

    3. The accounting department saw the bookkeeping entry that I made a return, but the accounting department said I did not return the purchase (which was correct) so another $600 worth of comps was deducted with the accounting department believing that a $600 credit had been made to my account.

    The bottom line is that I did make one purchase of gas cards worth $600 of comp points, but $1200 of comps was deducted.

    Managers at the casino are now trying to sort it all out. Meanwhile, I discovered the problem on a subsequent trip to the casino when the comp points I earned for play were not credited to my account. When I asked the players club why my play received no points, I was told it was because the points earned were used to pay back the deficit in my account.

    Of course, I would like to know how such an error came about? At first blush it appeared to me that someone tried to use $600 of comps from my account to cover for some missing inventory (gas cards). I don't know that is what happened. It could be just an innocent accounting error.

    The casino said I would get a report back soon.

    But this reminded me of an incident of credit card fraud that I was a victim of back in Miami in the 1980s. Here's what happened:

    I met a friend for drinks at a local restaurant. I paid for the drinks using my American Express card. I kept the receipt and when the Amex bill came the following month I noticed a large discrepancy. My bill from Amex was for about five times what the cost was for the drinks and the amount on my receipt.

    I immediately called Amex and they immediately recognized what probably happened. The Amex rep entered a dispute on the amount and then suggested I call the restaurant manager, tell the manager what happened, and asked if the employee who made the charge to my Amex card was still employed there? Amex suggested the employee would be "long gone."

    Indeed, I called the manager of the restaurant and the employee worked there only a few weeks and had left. And that was significant. Here's why:

    Amex said the waiter who served the drinks probably "swiped" my Amex card twice -- once for my check for the drinks, (and that was the receipt I got) and swiped my card again to cover other checks that were paid in cash. Amex believed the employee then pocketed the cash and used the second swipe of my Amex card to cover the other checks that were paid in cash.

    That made me wonder if perhaps "comp dollars" were deducted from my casino comp account to cover $600 of missing merchandise from the gift shop?

    Well, I am not jumping to conclusions. I'm hoping it was just an innocent accounting error, but I wouldn't have discovered the error unless I monitored my players club account.

    UPDATE ON DECEMBER 17: The issue with the casino has been resolved.
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 12-17-2012 at 04:42 PM.

  2. #2
    If you read the forums then you'll notice how screw-ups on player accounts and complaints about players not getting what they think they're "entitled" to, run rampant. In fact, vp players are the biggest babies on earth when it comes to what they "think" they should have received for their play. And while some may have valid points, the whole slot club entitlement deal is one of the reasons why I chose not to use my slot club card while playing SPS in the early to mid 2000's. Worry about the money you win and lose, not how many points you receive or if you made presidential status or not.

    If you ask me, quantifying what a table player should receive is far too ambiguous for any player to believe they'll get anything close to what they think they're play is worth.

  3. #3
    Rob, when you were playing your "SPS" you had a bankroll of $53,000+ in your pocket for your casino visit so I'm going to guess that comps and cash back and freebies didn't mean squat to you. But to the rest of us, fifty bucks or a hundred bucks, or in the my case in the post above $600 worth of comps ($300 worth of gas cards) is nothing to ignore.

  4. #4
    Here is a follow-up to the issue of the missing comps from my account. I have deleted names to give the casino a chance to make this right. I am publishing this letter because there is still no response from the correct department even though my own host has also intervened. It makes me wonder if indeed they used my account to cover up a theft. The email I sent to my host and to a top level manager at the casino is as follows:

    Hi. XXXX said I would have a response no later than this past Wednesday. It is now Friday evening. I have heard nothing.

    In addition to the message you said you would pass along for me, I have left at least a dozen voice mails for her. She has not responded.

    The issue is this:

    $211 (cash value) of comps were removed from my XXXXXXX account because of a deficit of $600 in my account because of entries made by the gift shop and the account department -- whoever that is.

    If I had $600 worth of comps in my account then instead of losing just $211, I would have lost more up to the $600 amount.

    XXXX was supposed to tell me how and why my account was being debited twice for $600.

    The first time it was debited for $300 worth of Shell gas cards. A $600 debit for this transaction would be correct.

    But my account was debited a second time for $600 worth of comps.

    I am entitled to an explanation and a correction, and at this point an apology as well. It might have been an innocent accounting error, or it might have been someone tampering with my account to cover for a loss or theft in your gift shop.

    Frankly I don't care how the discrepency was made. I just want my full comp values restored. And I certainly want to get the response I was promised.

  5. #5
    I was just advised today at 1 of our local clip joints that effective 12-31-12 at midnight, they are revamping the player program. Any cash comps must be used by then or they will convert to cash at 25%.

    Now I have over $4,000 in comp dollars accumulated over many years. I could never use them up fast enough because we eat in their steak house every few weeks but I cant use them fast enough. I would need a wedding or something to use them up.

    Now, I have to either take the cash at 25% or buy some merchandise in their on-line store---but their on-line store basically marks up the merchandise at least 100%--and usually 200%. So like the $699 ipad is like $2,000. Not sure what the bettter approach is but I just was told today so not much time to decide.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Rob, when you were playing your "SPS" you had a bankroll of $53,000+ in your pocket for your casino visit so I'm going to guess that comps and cash back and freebies didn't mean squat to you. But to the rest of us, fifty bucks or a hundred bucks, or in the my case in the post above $600 worth of comps ($300 worth of gas cards) is nothing to ignore.
    That's correct, I did not rely on anything from the slot clubs or care in the least about whether I received what they said I would or what I thought they said I would get. Playing vp to me was only about the money. Whatever they gave me in addition to that, I gratefully accepted and moved on. It is somewhat the same today as a recreational player like you. I am more aware of what I SHOULD be receiving, but even when things don't look so right, I will never waste my time asking and writing and wondering and whining and having my stomach churning over any slot club fluff of any kind. Even in retirement, my time is much too valuable for such matters. It should only and always be about winning money and about how to do it the best possible way. People only have a "thing" about all the slot club nonsense in order that they may create justifications for all their losing, or to manufacture winning years out of thin air.

  7. #7
    Interesting response, Rob. But how do you feel about being ripped off? And isn't money from slot club benefits (cash back or comps) the same thing as money on the credit meter on the machine?

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Interesting response, Rob. But how do you feel about being ripped off? And isn't money from slot club benefits (cash back or comps) the same thing as money on the credit meter on the machine?
    I see being ripped off as having something taken from me that I already have. If you believe you didn't receive what you believe you earned or should have had bestowed upon you, see that guy you voted for because you believe in "taking care of our own" instead of being concerned about how the overall disastrous picture being created will affect everyone as a whole tomorrow.

    No, I don't see money or freebies from the slot club being the same as winning money from the machines. I'll take them just like anyone else, but I take whatever they choose to give me or whatever the computer generates for me--right or wrong. This is because I know slot club "benefits" have one and only one purpose: to get you back on their schedule instead of yours. Casinos controlled me with that stuff when I was a stupid & gullible AP, but no more.

  9. #9
    Unfortunately Rob, you are letting your own weaknesses and failure cloud the picture for everyone else. Everyone else wasn't a misguided AP who was forced into bankruptcy. Most people who go into a casino and expect to get cash back or bonuses as advertised. And when they don't get them, or they disappear from their accounts, they want to know why.

    Promised cash back, promised promotions, promised bonuses are all part of the "transaction" that gets people to come into a casino. If a casino tells me that if I show up I will get $10 of free play, I expect to get that $10 of free play. If a casino tells me I will get a ticket to the buffet, I expect that ticket to the buffet.

    I don't say "it's okay that you didn't give me the buffet ticket because I have a $53,000+ bankroll." And I don't say "I know you advertised a free buffet and now you won't give me a ticket but that's okay because I only care about winning money on the machine."

    A deal is a deal.

    By the way I heard from the casino this morning about my disputed account. They told me my account was credited back what was missing. Really? So I got the casino rep to go to my account, while I went on my account via my home computer, and I said "if you really refunded xxxx dollars, where is it?"

    We both saw that it's not there. Now it's being "escalated" to a higher up.

  10. #10
    My bankroll was $171k, and it had nothing to do with being able to take or leave the freebies. And as a "busted out" misguided AP, I'm happy for the learning experience, since it not only opened my eyes on how to win consistently--it made me realize how foolish depending on getting slot club fluff really was in the overall scheme of things. I don't even see these so-called benefits as being a must-have now. If you want to waste your time solving petty conflicts with casino people, that's your choice. I think it's self-defeating and people's time can be much better utilized inside casinos (like winning, for instance) & out of them (like on anything but whatever's related to gambling, for instance) especially with the amount you put thru the machines when you do play. I simply looked at the prospects of getting stiffed as being easily overcome by the winning.

    BTW, if I were a "higher up" that had something like this being escalated to me by a year-after-year 7-Stars gambler, I'd laugh and ignore it, because I'd know you were so hooked on the Caesar's program that you'd never be able to walk away from it under any circumstances. Just like arci could and never will walkk away from his addiction to playing video poker if and when those "grandfathered-in oej machines" get pulled, and just like when Dancer proclaimed to the world that he would never ever play another hand of video poker once the pure >100% machines were taken away. These casino execs are no dummies. They know the more a player plays, the more impossible it is for them to ever just walk and the more justifictions they'll create. Arci denies his issue because he wants to play pretend. Dancer pushes his issue under the table because his gaming industry jobs depend on how he's perceived. But why don't you know that?

  11. #11
    I am glad for you Rob that you don't think $211 is significant. I think you also said you sometimes threw dollar bills into the air because you don't like them in your wallet.

    Well, $211 is worth my while, even if it might represent only four plays on a $5 bonus poker machine or two buy-ins at a $100 table.

    Oh, and about the casino exec laughing off a complaint from a high level player? I know you're wrong. The casino employee who called me this morning had already received an email from "higher ups" to make sure my problem was solved.

    By the way, this incident was not necessarily at one of my regular haunts. The poker clubs here in LA also have comp programs... some of them are also very attractive. I know players who cash out a thousand dollars or more each month from the poker club comps (yes some pay in cash).

  12. #12
    I absolutely DO like the prospects of having an extra $211, but by winning it and not ever by creating an unnecessary stink with employees over whether I'm due it or not. In other words, I value what I do with my spare time quite a bit differently than you.

    I said if I were a (casino) exec--and I used to be in the latter stages of my working career--I'd laugh off any 7-Stars player who came crying to me over $211. It would simply be a win-win for my company. We'd get to keep that silly money, and with all the complaining you did you would never leave the program.

    Now if you were to tell me that you found a way, like Bob Dancer always says he has done--to manipulate certain slot club programs into them giving you MORE than you are owed and have earned, I would congratulate you and say it was time well spent.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I absolutely DO like the prospects of having an extra $211, but by winning it and not ever by creating an unnecessary stink with employees over whether I'm due it or not.
    Rob, you wouldn't question $211 disappearing from your account? Do you consider $211 that you saw on your computer screen at home on the casino's website not being there when you got to the casino and you tried to redeem those comps at the players club booth? Would you call that an "unnecessary stink"?

  14. #14
    From a bank account, yes. From a casino promotion account, no. Remember, I am someone who believes in keeping contact with casino employees as far away as possible. I know talking to hosts for whatever reasons almost always does more harm than good, and I've probably only talked to three hosts since 1999. I know tipping floor people on handpays is a bad idea for several reasons, one being that an "aquaintance" type relationship may result for no good reason. And the very last thing I ever do in casinos--and I never waste my time at home on such issues--is seek out "account fixers" or wait in slot club lines. I play to win, and I take whatever it is they see fit to give me or take away after they've given it to me. There's more than enough issues to deal with in life without creating them with, of all places, casinos.

  15. #15
    On my planet, $211 of cash value in a comp account good for merchandise, Visa gift cards, gas station credit cards, department store charge cards, is just as good as $211 in a bank account.

  16. #16
    And I'm sure you'll remember that as you hand out hundreds or even thousands in tips, thru intimidation or whatever makes you feel comfortable justifying it as, at casinos, year-in & year-out.

  17. #17
    Rob, wouldn't it be the ultimate in intimidation if I let them get away with it?

  18. #18
    I wouldn't say that. You let them get away with taking your money another way most years, no? I'm just thinking about this issue from another angle than how you see it. I've trained myself to want the casinos' money by playing video poker, to take it, and not to worry about whatever else goes on. I still think and act that way today, as a purely for-entertainment-only player. But when I couldn't win for losing as an AP, yes, I worried about and made sure I got every cent and item that was coming to me, and double-checking & triple-checking my slot club accounts were as common as the light of day. As a result, today and for the past 12 or so years, the casino experience has been a much more relaxing overall event for me.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I'm just thinking about this issue from another angle than how you see it.
    You are a man of many inconsistencies Rob. You want to extract your revenge on the casinos for first driving you into bankruptcy. Then you say you won't be intimidated by the casinos. But when a casino has wrongly deducted several hundred dollars worth of comps that could have been used as a "cash value" outside of the casino you willingly say let them get away with it and do nothing?

    I have a hard time getting into your mind, sometimes.

  20. #20
    You have a hard time because you rarely listen. The revenge I exact comes from beating the machines, not by whining about a few dollars. I'll tell you what. If the casino gives you back your precious $211, send it to me, I'll triple it, and I'll send it in to the fund set up for the 20 children killed in Conn. on Friday. You should embrace that because you're a big fan of how we all should be taking care of our own, correct?

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