Big Casino Wins and Jackpots

[redietz]

You're going to have to quote me those laws, Alan. I've never even heard a rumor regarding such laws.

More to the point, is your argument about why machines don't employ stop loss/win goal programming really going to be that there exist gaming commission laws preventing it? We can quote you that that is why it isn't done?

You're painting yourself into a very tight corner.

[blackhole]

Years ago, while visiting the Castle Casino my wife was playing a ten dollar 2-coin machine. This was when we used coins. She emptied it several times along with two hand pays. She was winning thousands. Finally, she emptied it again and after the refill she got one more spin then the symbols never stopped spinning. They opened and closed it a couple more times never getting the symbols to stop again. They gave her the last two coins she put in and told her it had a problem then closed it with the card in the window. The next day our last day there the card never was removed and the machine was never working.

That’s one way to stop a machine if paying too much.

[regnis]

So here's my question. If you believe in the long term, and certainly the casinos do, why shut off a machine that has been incredibly hot? That machine should actually now get cold and recoup those losses, at least the believers in the long term would assert, as the machine's overall results now begin the return to normalcy.

The casino would be actually hurting itself, unless the machine was malfunctioning. Please don't tell me the casino does not believe in the long term!!!!


They did once close a craps table on me.

[jbjb]

So you're saying the machine, or any other casino game for that matter, is "due" to either make you win or lose because the opposite has been happening more frequently? Gamblers Fallacy.

As for tables, yes, we've all seen superstitious floor personnel. They have no reason being a supervisor if that's the case.

[a2a3dseddie]

So you're saying the machine, or any other casino game for that matter, is "due" to either make you win or lose because the opposite has been happening more frequently? Gamblers Fallacy.

As for tables, yes, we've all seen superstitious floor personnel. They have no reason being a supervisor if that's the case.

The strategy looked at the growing probability of the special quads, SF's, and royals as more hands were played without hitting them and which is figured over the long-term and not simply from the beginning of every session, and if one or more were hit that did not end the session then that was figured in too. So because I kept creeping up in denomination/game volatility as these weren't hit, the frequencies of hitting them became more and more "inviting". And when you add in the enhancement of the special plays specifically designed to supercharge those potential session-ending winners, good luck isn't really overall that far away.

Does this qualify?

[Alan Mendelson]

Redietz you've got to be kidding? Even the rules that govern server controlled machines do not allow the casino to change the games while being played. The laws are specific. Look 'em up.

[redietz]

Any casino can shut down any machine at any time. Nobody said anything about changing the game or the payout while someone was on the machine. What I am saying is that I know absolutely nothing that prevents the casino from programming win goals and stop losses into their machines.

Besides, Alan, you sneaky dude, you didn't answer the question. Are you really saying that the reason win goals and stop losses aren't programmed into machines is that it would be illegal? Can we quote you on that?

P.S. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying, "I was wrong." I don't think the phrase has ever come out of Rob's keyboard in his 5000 posts, but it is okay to actually say it. I am reminded of the old Happy Days with Fonzie trying to say, "I was wro---wrooo--wwrroooonnnn----wroonnnnnn...."

[jbjb]

Alan and company have no clue how VP machines work. The machine does nothing but shuffle the fucking cards. You as the player, when hitting the deal/draw button, determine when the shuffling stops and the cards are dealt. Exactly the same if you did it at home with a real deck of cards. The results will mimic the overall casino machine play. Hot/cold cycles are pure bullshit after the fact garbage and have no bearing on future hands. No wonder he's a loser at VP.

[RS__]

jbjb you should omit the last 2 words in your previous post.


*Sorry, this is a joke.

[Alan Mendelson]

I invite you to call the NGC.

[Alan Mendelson]

Here's your answer. From NGC 14.040 sentence 2. Now STFU.

[RS__]

1 2. Once a game is initiated by a player on a gaming device, the rules of play for
2 that game, including the probability and award of a game outcome, cannot be
3 changed. In the event the game or rules of play for the game, including probability
4 and award of a game outcome, change between games during a gaming session,
5 notice of the change must be prominently displayed to the player.

This doesn't appear to state whether a machine can be turned off or not.

Sentence 7 might indicate it's illegal to have a machine turn off based on the actual hold percentage.

[Alan Mendelson]

Read it again. It says right in the first sentence. Care to argue? Call the NGC. They gave me the regulation.

[RS__]

Well that's wrong, then. It just says the probabilities cannot be changed once a game is initiated (ie: wager is made).

[Rob.Singer]

I've seen two machines in high limit rooms removed because they lost money over long periods of time. That's what I was told when asked during an interview.

I've also seen it the other way. The 3 royals and four A's w/a kicker I hit in around two hours all on $2 @ SP, on a 25c/50c/$1/$2 bartop machine--which obviously gets mostly 25c play--was checked TWICE for payout % after my 3rd & 4th jackpots. I was told the machine was way over break-even for the player, but they were not shutting it down or replacing it.

I went back a month later and mugged it for another $1900 profit, and I'll try again in Dec.

God bless Donald Trump, and God Bless America!

[Alan Mendelson]

Everyone read the regulation. Now I'll explain it.

The casino cannot turn off a machine while you are playing it. They can't change the pays while you are mugging it, Rob. But after you leave the machine they can do whatever they want including shutting down a machine.

What this means is THEY CANNOT have a machine programmed to have a loss limit (for the casino) because they're not allowed to change anything when the machine is in play.

Does this make it clear, redietz and others?

[blackhole]

because they're not allowed to change anything when the machine is in play.

In New Jersey the machine must also remain idle for a minimum of 5 minutes after last activation before any changes.

[Alan Mendelson]

In New Jersey the machine must also remain idle for a minimum of 5 minutes after last activation before any changes.

Good point. If I recall in Nevada server based machines must be idle for 15 minutes before a change can be made. I'm on the road and using my cell to go thru the NGC regs is difficult.

[arcimede$]

I have seen machines shut down after paying out a lot. Admittedly, this was not in Nevada but saying a machine cannot be changed and saying it cannot be shut down are two different things. Alan, I think you would need to find a regulation specific to that situation.

[redietz]

'While you are playing it" is the key phrase Alan jammed in here. That would mean after you hit the start button for a particular game, not while you are sitting there between games.

If you are sitting there between games, they can shut it down.

The average person plays 500 games an hour. This regulation simply states that you can't shut down the machine once one of those 500 hands has begun.

Nobody said they could.

So Alan, you are going to stick to your guns and say that "the laws" prevent machines from being programmed to use win goals and loss limits? Is that your argument?