View Poll Results: Who are the biggest casino liars?

Voters
6. You may not vote on this poll
  • Winners.

    2 33.33%
  • Losers.

    5 83.33%
  • Poker players.

    3 50.00%
  • Blackjack players.

    2 33.33%
  • Craps players.

    3 50.00%
  • Slot machine players.

    3 50.00%
  • Video poker players.

    3 50.00%
  • Casino advertising.

    3 50.00%
  • Hookers.

    1 16.67%
  • Room service about the time your meal will arrive.

    1 16.67%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: Who tells lies in casinos?

  1. #1
    It seems that one of the biggest topics here -- at least between a couple of forum members -- is lies.

    That got me wondering about lies and liars as it relates to casinos and casino games.

    And so, for your consideration, I created a poll for "who are the biggest casino liars?"

    Please participate. Stories are always welcomed.

  2. #2
    I voted for 3:

    Losers -- self explanatory

    Craps players -- particularly those with the dice control stories

    VP players -- I know how tough it is to win, yet there are a lot of people who feast on that braggadocio soup.

  3. #3
    I would say mostly all players. Not that many trip reports end with people losing (I'm talking about other forums mostly). I recently posted a trip report over on one of the craps forums where I stated I lost about 1500.00 during a weekend playing craps. Pretty funny stuff on the type of replies I got. When I read trip reports on craps forums I usually don't many losers, maybe I am not that good at craps?

  4. #4
    As one who was always a soft touch for every dead beat, I finally learned to always claim I'm losing. So I always lie the other way and say I'm getting killed even if I'm winning. Where does that fit in.

  5. #5
    Haha yea I guess that solves the problem. I guess my gripe comes from people who always seem to win. Maybe they really do win every time? I should probably stop being such a pessimist.

  6. #6
    We always hear about the wins.

    I don't know of anyone who has ever come back from a trip to Vegas who announces how much they lost. Usually "we broke even."

    I guess even "advantage players" figure they break even with comps, cash back, free play, show tickets, room and food and beverages, and casino tee-shirts and coffee mugs.
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 01-03-2013 at 01:27 PM.

  7. #7
    It's my experience that sports winners usually talk about losing and sports losers usually talk about winning. So I guess that makes all sports players liars in some sense.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    We always hear about the wins.

    I don't know of anyone who has ever come back from a trip to Vegas who announces how much they lost. Usually "we broke even."

    I guess even "advantage players" figure they break even with comps, cash back, free play, show tickets, room and food and beverages, and casino tee-shirts and coffee mugs.
    No Alan, advantage players always say they "came out ahead" because as self-proclaimed video poker lifetime loser Mike Shackleford likes to phrase it "it's not whether you win or lose, it's whether or not it was a positive play bet". So even when he actually loses money playing--which he told me is most of the time--he theoretically comes out ahead simply because each hand was a so-called "positive play". Thus, my very effective Gaming Today term "Phantom Bucks" was born, to the outrage of the very people who need and use those bucks nearly every time out.

  9. #9
    Right on cue Singer jumps in with another lie. Of course advantage players lose more often than they win. That is exactly what the math predicts.

    In my case the math predicts I will lose 55-60% of the time. And, just as the math predicts, I come out ahead overall because my wins are much larger than my losses. Or, in some cases, the advantage is accrued through cashback, freeplay and/or promotions and those are often collected separately and don't factor into the session results.

    The nice thing about those "phantom bucks" is they work just as well as regular bucks. I'm still driving the Terrain I bought with "phantom bucks" 2 years ago.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Mike Shackleford likes to phrase it "it's not whether you win or lose, it's whether or not it was a positive play bet".
    On his website, the signature line he uses is: "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."

    And he has been questioned about it by several posters there including me. It has to be about what you win and what you lose. I don't care how good the bets are, if you don't win you will eventually go broke.

    And by the way, several months ago Mike announced on his forum that he was cutting back on his casino play because things haven't been going well for him. I don't know if that includes his sports betting. I tried to find the post, but couldn't.

  11. #11
    The point that Mike is making is that you should worry about things you can only control. Worrying about things you can't control is foolish.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by arcimede$ View Post
    The point that Mike is making is that you should worry about things you can only control. Worrying about things you can't control is foolish.
    Really Arc, is that what he's saying? "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet." That's a funny way to express that thought.

    Perhaps he'd like to change it to this:

    Don't worry if you win or lose, just play your best game.

    And that is pretty much what he does, isn't it? He's in the business of testing games for the casinos and game makers, and for the general public he is telling them the best way to play those games. That's all well and good. So his original tag line "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet" fits what his business is -- giving information. And frankly, what he's saying is "hey guys I give you the best information but you can lose."

    But since casinos aren't paying me, I think my goal is to win. Isn't winning your goal Arc, or are you happy losing because you are on a positive expectation game?
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 01-05-2013 at 11:35 AM.

  13. #13
    The Wizard has always said he plays nothing but +EV vp, but he's never been able to win with it. Now, he's a known entity and his entire livelihood is gaming-based, by his consulting, his online casino advertisement, and his multiple other efforts he contributes due to his very hi-level math knowledge. His integrity in the community is unquestioned. Yet he has no qualms about telling the truth about advantage play vp--just as I never had a problem admitting what it means. And here we have an anonymous personality arci who posts with multiple handles on every gaming forum imagineable claiming he wins with AP yet makes up lies about why he can't post winning hand pictures, and you have to believe him or he'll make up lie after lie about you or he'll insult you to death even if you're the host of the forum.

    So does it really make any sense to listen to him when we have the best math guy in the business--and a TRUE GENIUS--telling us the way it really is with that kind of vp approach? Or maybe it makes sense helping him fill in all that down time with provocative arguing.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    But since casinos aren't paying me, I think my goal is to win. Isn't winning your goal Arc, or are you happy losing because you are on a positive expectation game?
    Yes, my goal is to win. That is why I play only positive games. However, I cannot make a machine hit big winners. That is not possible. All I can do is make bets with an advantage and let the law of large numbers do its thing. So far it has worked well.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    And here we have an anonymous personality arci who posts with multiple handles on every gaming forum imagineable claiming he wins with AP yet makes up lies about why he can't post winning hand pictures, and you have to believe him or he'll make up lie after lie about you or he'll insult you to death even if you're the host of the forum.
    All lies as anyone can see by going back and looking at the winning tickets I provided. You only make yourself look like a complete idiot when you repeat claims that have already been refuted.

    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    So does it really make any sense to listen to him when we have the best math guy in the business--and a TRUE GENIUS--telling us the way it really is with that kind of vp approach? Or maybe it makes sense helping him fill in all that down time with provocative arguing.
    Sorry, I've never seen the Wizard claim he never wins. Let's see a reference. If you can't provide a reference then all we can do is assume you are lying once again.

  16. #16
    Arci, you read every word on this and other forums dozens of times, so stop the whining. Wizard told me he loses at AP vp in person, and from what Alan just wrote today that hasn't changed. Why don't you just ask HIM for verification or if he's written it down anywhere.

    How about you post some pictures of actual wins to prove you play all the way up to DOLLARS!? When you keep claiming simple cashout tickets prove that, you know all you have to do is put $1k in 7 times as you keep cashing it out. For someone who claims to "only deal in the facts" you seem to like your end to stay "loose". So come on, man up and post proof of winning hands and stop stalling! We all want to see them!!

  17. #17
    I dont know about you Rob, but I accept the cash out tickets of $1,000 each as proof enough of big wins. Since the photo showed different cash out tickets it is unlikely that he kept recycling the same $1,000 through a machine to generate so many tickets. I accept that the tickets came from multiple big wins.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Arci, you read every word on this and other forums dozens of times, so stop the whining. Wizard told me he loses at AP vp in person, and from what Alan just wrote today that hasn't changed. Why don't you just ask HIM for verification or if he's written it down anywhere.

    How about you post some pictures of actual wins to prove you play all the way up to DOLLARS!? When you keep claiming simple cashout tickets prove that, you know all you have to do is put $1k in 7 times as you keep cashing it out. For someone who claims to "only deal in the facts" you seem to like your end to stay "loose". So come on, man up and post proof of winning hands and stop stalling! We all want to see them!!
    And this is coming from the guy who can't post any proof about his own various claims? The irony is ironic.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Vegas Vic View Post
    And this is coming from the guy who can't post any proof about his own various claims? The irony is ironic.
    Please stick with the issue Vic. I posted a picture of MY $20,000 royal. Arci seems unable and/or unwilling to post even one of HIS $1000 "winners". Then he gave an excuse about the casino not allowing cameras or pictures of jackpots or some weak reason. So based on the info provided on his tickets, I called and pushed until I got the truth about their policy--one which ALLOWS people to take pictures of their own winners. I even provided the name and number. But what it's really all about is arci only pretending--as so many anonymous posters on forums do--to be some strict by-the-book "APer" when he really isn't, but thrives on creating Internet controversy just to give himself something to look forward to doing each day....on every gaming forum imagineable. Oh how he must miss really playing.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Arci, you read every word on this and other forums dozens of times, so stop the whining. Wizard told me he loses at AP vp in person, and from what Alan just wrote today that hasn't changed. Why don't you just ask HIM for verification or if he's written it down anywhere.
    Your claims are meaningless. You are a proven liar. Without a reference the assumption can only be that you are lying yet again.

    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    How about you post some pictures of actual wins to prove you play all the way up to DOLLARS!? When you keep claiming simple cashout tickets prove that, you know all you have to do is put $1k in 7 times as you keep cashing it out. For someone who claims to "only deal in the facts" you seem to like your end to stay "loose". So come on, man up and post proof of winning hands and stop stalling! We all want to see them!!
    I provided even better proof than a picture which anyone could take of any machine.. You are showing your envy yet again. It's absolutely hilarious to see you turn green. I love the projection as well.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •