Not tough guy Vic, smart guy. If I've chosen to make a trip to LV or somewhere in Nv. and had that choice between Casino A or B (no slot club), I'd only go to B if Casino A didn't and B did have the superior games. And by superior I mean SDBP & TBP + for the advanced BP game of my strategy.Originally Posted by Vegas Vic
On my computers one must become a member in order to read the messages, and not just the recent sampling that page shows you.Originally Posted by regnis
That's just it--no player ever has a so-called "expected return" regardless of the paytable, at any machine. All you have are better or worse paytables, that's it. And whether you do good or bad has nothing to do with 5 credits on the FH. It has to do with how lucky you got while you were at that machine. Nothing more/nothing less. The casino is the only entity with an expected return because of the huge amount of play they get, and that's the best projection for what they'll see as profit. For players, their only measurement is what you accurately labeled actual return. My actual return in the years I played pro was probably well over XX% and how thru-the-roof is my return on that machine I hit the royals on at Fandango? But if I went by expected return, I should have lost, lost and lost again. That's how inaccurate and silly expected return is overall.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
this of course makes sense, because you are valuing the game above slot club benefits. I think we all do that.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
If Rincon didn't have 8/5 Aces and Faces or 8/5 Aces Bonus I would be playing at Pechanga which does have 8/5 Bonus.
Expected return is one element that has to be considered when you decide where to play and what games to play, just as the type of game you play. I, for example, do not know enough about deuces wild to play that game, so I would not go to a casino that is predominantly a deuces wild casino even if the games were all positive. I also, for example, would avoid playing Triple Double Bonus unless I had a huge bankroll so I would avoid that game as well.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
If you had said the same game's better paytable then I'd agree, because I do that myself based on after where I decide to play. ER is simply a function of how the casino looks at game profitability and has nothing at all to do with how good or bad a player can expect his results to be. Think about it: the machine gets maybe millions of hands played, you get maybe a few thousand when you sit at it. Game ER has no effect on your actual return for the time you play it. Only luck will tell a true tale. That's why ER is a non-factor when deciding where to play, or when.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Gee, Rob, I always thought the "expected return" is based on the pay table. What's the phrase... "with a paytable of ______ and expert play your expected return is____." Are you saying it isn't? Or are you just trying to put another of your anti-casino spins on this also?Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
You're confused in a dramatic way. I play the best paytable available where I decide to play. Saying my expected return is 99.1% on a machine means absolutely nothing. I'm not going to hit that, you aren't, and the overwhelming majority of players who sit at that machine aren't going to hit it. But the casino is and they base their business around it. If I'm unlucky I'll lose and if I'm lucky I'll win. That's all there is to it.
Okay, agreed. So what's your point? All I am saying is that you use the pay table to help you choose which game to play. You summarize the pay table with the catch phrase "expected return." The EV is one element in the decision making process. Others can include the type of game you like, the comps you get, a smoke free gaming area, anything. So what are you arguing about?Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
There is no confusion here except for you alleging that there is confusion.
The "view all" is available if you join vpfree. Looks like you have to join to see the messages. I believe at one time you could read the messages by clicking on the various months. Looks like this no longer works.Originally Posted by regnis
Last edited by arcimede$; 01-15-2013 at 06:32 AM.
Hilarious. The pay table/ER is meaningless but Singer plays the best pay table available. Does anyone else get a huge belly laugh out of this double talk. Of course, Singer is completely clueless and anyone who believes a word he says is a fool.
Why can't you just come out and admit you gave the wrong information that I had to correct, instead of again trying to save face, claiming something in the past that's never been....even BEFORE you were banned from posting there for good. Facts arci, facts. Remember? Tom has always allowed potential members to read a most recent sample before joining, since day 1 of vpFree.Originally Posted by arcimede$
No confusion about er or paytables. I was referring to the anti-casino idea you were pondering. I'm not sure where that came from given how well I've been doing in my retirement. But, I did treat them as the enemy when I played as a pro. If anything, casinos are now my friends!Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
At Rincon the "casino day" ends at 6-AM, so right on schedule the "bonus tier points" have been added to my account the following calendar day.
When I went on a trip around the country that had us staying at all the Harrahs casinos in the US plus the one in Ontario, I ran into various promos and even some special "have your Harrahs passport stamped at as many slot clubs as possible for this & that bonus points", it was a very complicated policy to follow. However, when I checked it thoroughly about three weeks after returning, they did exactly what the rules said they would. All bonus points were correctly added, I received all freeplay coupons in the mail as promised, and several bonus gifts arrived in addition. So despite all the Harrahs bashing you see on other forums, they actually do a pretty good job with their specials all around.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
One question I had for the folks at Rincon was what to do with your players card if you are at a machine at 6-am when the "game day" changes? I asked if it is wise to remove the card at 5:59am when the game day ends, and insert the card again at 6-am when the new day starts to be sure that you get the full credits for each of the two day's play? Here is the response I got from Rincon:
the best bet (no pun intended) is to always card out at 5:59am to get the maximum play for that gaming day. Then, card back in at 6am to begin earning for that day to get the maximum opportunity of play. It’s not going to interrupt your play, you will just be removing your card and you should not have to cash out….then you will resume play as soon as you re-insert your card again.
I suppose if you are at a table game at that time of the morning, you should also be asking the floorman or pit boss if he is starting a new day's play record for you at 6-AM??
At the casino where I play the day is 5AM-5AM. What makes matters worse is they use an "average day" for purposes of generating freeplay. So, if you play 1000 points within that time your average play is 1000. However, if you play across the the 5AM time your average becomes 500 and you get half as much freeplay.
One example where knowing how a player's club works can be advantageous to the player.
I just want to update this thread to say that on March 7th I reached (actually surpassed) the 150-thousand tier point mark to reach 7Stars again. But I have to admit that for some of the play, I was at $5 Aces and Faces with a little "double double bonus" thrown in when I was well ahead playing aces and faces.
The net result is that I reach 7Stars again, and with a profit thanks to a $20K royal that I got yesterday, March 7th. Prior to March 7th's play, I was down more than I thought I would be ($4,000 was my forecast) had I stuck with $2 Aces and Faces and I attribute that larger loss to playing the $5 games and not getting the necessary wins. I admit to blowing about $6,000 playing double double bonus -- money that I had won playing Aces and Faces.
I estimate that I played 60,000 hands before hitting the royal.
Congratulations Alan. How close to a 40K average hands/royal are you now after the last 3 years?
I didnt keep track of hands played in 2012 so I am going to make a guess:Originally Posted by arcimede$
2011... 180,000 hands and zero royals
2012... 350,000 hands and 11 royals
2013.... 60,000 hands and 1 royal
total: 590,000 hands and 12 royals, or I royal about every 49,000 hands.
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