The Wizard of Vegas Comes Clean On His Forum

[Rob.Singer]

Interesting comments by mrjjj and redietz. I've had a hot-cold relationship with M.S., and he recently was quoted as saying I was wrong and Dancer was right about the Revel $100,000 rebate promotion--even though it was the first time in years Dancer & I agreed on something.

In my time on that forum, I've found it to be first and foremost, a safe-haven for admitted homosexuals, transvestites, America haters, minorities, and especially atheists. You say one thing that might upset any of those protected groups, and you get suspended. I'm banned there but not for that. I came across as much too strong for the Wizard's pack of intellectual mathematicians, and when I offered to meet with him and them in LV to show them my machine testing results as well as play ten sessions of SPS with a bet that I'd win at least 7 of them along with at least an overall win amount of $25k, I ended up getting banned after verbally abusing MathExtremist for suddenly altering the parameters by requiring me to pay everyone's travel, food & hotel costs.

As for M.S., I find him an absolute genius when analyzing gaming numbers, but he is in a very minor league - and it greatly shows - when he gets outside of his comfort zone--such as discussing video poker or slot club benefits manipulation.

[Dan Druff]

It involved the legal obligations of a forum host to question or remove or challenge libelous comments made by a member of the forum. I reminded them of their obligation and they stood behind the "right of free speech" and allowed the libelous comments to stand, unchallenged. They are wrong -- there is no free speech in the case of libel but it is their website and they will have to deal with the consequences when and if the libeled party takes action. (It wasn't me, by the way, and I did not have a personal stake in the discussion or the libelous comments.)

As someone who runs a semi-free-speech forum, I can tell you that it's not as simple as you're making it out to be.

It is difficult to win libel cases against forum owners whom have taken no part in authoring the libelous material, but simply own the venue where the material is being posted.

Technically you can sue a forum owner for libel, but to actually win such a lawsuit can be tough.

Let me give you the Facebook example.

Let's say I opened my Facebook page to the public, and then made the libelous status update, "Alan Mendelson should be avoided. He came up to me today and punched me in the face for no reason!" Let's also say I included a picture of you, so there was no doubt wihch Alan Mendelson I was talking about.

Now let's say you wanted to sue me, but I couldn't be located to be served.

Instead, you contacted Facebook and demanded they remove my libelous statement.

You would most likely get ignored, especially if that was my one and only statement about you on my page.

Could you sue Facebook at this point?

Yes.

Would you win?

Probably not.

This is because there is no accepted standard regarding the burden of a forum owner to remove libelous content, nor is there currently an accepted standard for proving damages from negative material written on the internet.

Furthermore, screen names are NOT protected by libel laws.

So you could write whatever you want about "Dan Druff" and not face any consequences, provided that you were careful never to connect my screen name to my legal name.

[Alan Mendelson]

The issue is not winning or losing as much as it is the cost and time and trouble. Sure you most likely will win. But how much time and money do you want to spend doing it when some simple precautions will prevent the headaches.

In the case over at WOV the libelous comments did not involve a screen name, but actual companies.

[regnis]

Check out Cubby vs. Compuserve. I don't have the official site but you should be able to Google it.

[mr jjj]

"You say one thing that might upset any of those protected groups, and you get suspended" >>> BINGO, thank you.

Ken

[JamieV]

Hey mr jjj

Will you be sharing some of your roulette secrets with us? I know WoV wouldn't allow it or was that your choice?

[mr jjj]

Half and half. I NEVER post my "A" methods (at any board), usually just the "B" methods. Even that, I would love to post a few methods and then never answer even one question, its a pain in the a** (lol). >> "Well I tried it Ken and I lost $23,537......thanks alot Ken, thats just great! Now I cant feed the family"

Its so much drama these days. The roulette boards were never like this 12 years ago. Changing the subject a bit regarding WoV.......another BS thing back when I was posting was the definition of TROLLING. Ok, I would post a method. I might get 5 questions and 8 people attacking me. The 8 posters would get no warning to COOL IT or a ban etc. (they were part of the CREW).

So, 5+8=13, correct? I would answer the 5 questions and "take on" the 8 idiots that attacked me. Then what happened Ken? I would get a warning to stop trolling. WTF? In 48 hours I might of added 60 posts to my count but *ALL* were RESPONDING to others. WoV is a nice place where everyone pats each other on the back. If you think outside the box, you are NOT welcome there.

Ken

[Rob.Singer]

The big issue with the WoV forum and why it's more a burden now for M.S. (thru his own fault, and remember, his wife wears the SERIOUS pants in his family) than it has ever been, is that because he has one or two "WoV forum meets" every year and the same bunch saves up their pennies for the trips to LV for these things. They have long ago become the WoV clique, who can do no wrong and say no wrong even if they do &/or say something disallowed by forum rules. Nevermind that this for the most part is a collection of degenerates and life's saddest leftovers. You may not ever challenge them on any subject, period. Just try and bring up some new thought, idea, or explain that you've discovered these eople didn't come up with first....and get ready for the wrath.

[redietz]

Rob, please expand on the wearing of the pants stuff. I know nothing.

I did check out some old Wizard forum threads, and I had never been there before. I guess I expected something useful or valuable. I'll be posting a Rob Singer thread in a few days regarding a couple of revelations.

Does Shackleford still work with the LVAdvisor cluster-boys?

[Rob.Singer]

Rob, please expand on the wearing of the pants stuff. I know nothing.

I did check out some old Wizard forum threads, and I had never been there before. I guess I expected something useful or valuable. I'll be posting a Rob Singer thread in a few days regarding a couple of revelations.

Does Shackleford still work with the LVAdvisor cluster-boys?

The pants comment meant that she's the boss in that family, and it was meant to imply a hint of weakness to control his own site in a more fair manner.

Wizard still guests regularly on Dancer's radio show, so I would say he's still business-ready with AC and the crew.

[Alan Mendelson]

Gee Rob there really isn't anything wrong with the wife wearing the pants in the family. In our modern era of women earning as much or more than men, protected by community property laws, and being able to look good for a long time, often the key to a long term marriage is for the husband to have the ability to say "yes dear, whatever you want dear, anything else dear, of course dear," and the very necessary "you're the boss dear."

[mr jjj]

"life's saddest leftovers" >>> I'll be using this one, thanks. (lol)

Ken

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, who wears the pants as far as it being a man or a woman isn't really the issue. Wizard is a brute with numbers crunching in figuring out how to earn a decent living by grinding out fees from on-line gaming advertisers as well as with his consulting talents. But when he told me his wife is the stronger person between the two, it didn't matter until I saw it for myself by what a weakling the guy is with his own forum. He has a 28 year old moderator who is as moronic and dense as they come, but he keeps his job by keeping the forum a safe-haven for AP yes-men and that collection of far left looney toons I mentioned earlier.

[mr jjj]

Thing is, if they want to talk AP, thats fine, have a blast. My issue is, then get rid of the roulette/methods sections. Dont have the section(s), then get GOOFY when people post in it.

Ken

[redietz]

Rob, I'm left of Karl Marx on most issues, and I promise to not be gay the week we go to the Wizard's meeting, but those things have nothing -- zero -- to do with the obnoxious and self-inflating rhetoric on that board. I have spent my life hanging out with geeks and academics, and rarely do you see anything approaching the snobbiness, rudeness, and hubris displayed by that WoD group.

It's a Ph.D.-wannabe collection of snobs, and their politics and/or sexuality has nothing to do with it. Rob, you've gotta stop watching Fox News. Leftist is not a cause/effect thing with obnoxiousness.

[Alan Mendelson]

I just have one question: what is the WoD group that you refer to? Are you in fact referring to the WoV group which is the Wizard of Vegas forum? Or is there some other group that I don't know about?

[mr jjj]

Me? The Wizard of Vegas. I dont know what.....WoD is?

Ken

[redietz]

Sorry, I didn't feel like typing Wizard of Odds or Wizard of Vegas forum over and over -- went with WoD for short. I am referring to the core group of 10-12 or so posters who appear to be pretty tight. From what I gather, many of the decisions on what goes on in that forum are made with the intent of not riling the locals.

[Alan Mendelson]

So redietz you are referring to the WIZARD OF VEGAS (WoV) forum, correct? I don't know of any forum on WIZARD OF ODDS.

[mr jjj]

I believe the Wizard of Odds is the same guy (MS) but its a page listing the odds to every table game etc.

Ken