A costly error in VP

[Alan Mendelson]

Gee redietz, if you don't play with your card at the Palms and Stations then how do you get on the radar of marketing in the first place? Are you saying you are damned if you do and damned if you don't?

And if playing with a card is a disadvantage for the "advantage players" then so be it. For the rest of us -- recreational gamblers -- I think we'd prefer to be "on the radar screen."

But we've really gotten "off topic" here. We got onto the subject of players cards as a means to protect players credits and winning tickets that would be printed with a player's account number.

[regnis]

From what I'm seeing here, it seems most of us on this Forum can avoid falling victim to the casino by chasing comps, and therefore can safely use a player card. But we all probably suffer some degree of addiction as we are spending so much time either gambling or discussing gambling. I gave up many years ago trying to justify my "hobby" to others. Some people golf, some bowl, some have a boat, some (myself included) have many hobbies and interests, my favorite of which is gambling, and particularly horse racing. I know when to stop--loss limits and win goals--and am aware of the addiction but to some degree in control of it. The players card and whatever its benefits are is just a bonus.

[slingshot]

On a side note: just a few moments ago my mail came and for the next month only 1 free buffett instead of the usual 2, where it used to be 4. Also, machine comps cut in half. I think it's great for me, cause now I'm more determined to play for the money and watch my play more carefully-maybe a blessing in disquise.

[Rob.Singer]

Well of course Im going to use my card at Caesars. This is the casino where I play, where I get my offers and my comps, and all of the fringe benefits of playing. When you have a casino you frequent of course you use their card.... except if you're Rob Singer.

First Alan, stick with the facts. I've always used a slot card since retiring in 2009. I don't play that much enough for it to be generating any meaningful offers any longer and I use very little of what gets mailed. But I do get some benefits.

Now to you....and the TR card you so cherish. Admit you're addicted to that thing. Admit there's no way on earth you could possibly stand playing a CET vp machine for any amount of time without your card inserted. And finally, admit why....because you know Harrahs has you by the balls with the thing. How else would you EVER have been able to justify those years of losing had it not been for all those fabulous "freebies" & wonderful "goodies" you always get so excited about in thread after thread here?

Now please give it a try and report back!

[Rob.Singer]

Gee redietz, if you don't play with your card at the Palms and Stations then how do you get on the radar of marketing in the first place? Are you saying you are damned if you do and damned if you don't?

And if playing with a card is a disadvantage for the "advantage players" then so be it. For the rest of us -- recreational gamblers -- I think we'd prefer to be "on the radar screen."

But we've really gotten "off topic" here. We got onto the subject of players cards as a means to protect players credits and winning tickets that would be printed with a player's account number.

Wow, I see there's quite a bit of sensitivity once the slot cards started being discussed! It even brought arci out of his sanitation room

Alan, stop hiding. You know casinos rope players in based on slot card usage, and you're acting as if it costs them to do it. That's what's bugging you. You know how much all those "roping-ins" have cost you over the years, but it hurts to face it. And goodness sakes: you'd NEVER want to blame your sacred little 7-Stars card, now would you?

[Alan Mendelson]

I wouldn't call it being addicted, but you are damn right that I am going to have my card inserted for every push of the button and every throw of the dice. If I didn't I would be giving away money whether it be in the form of cash back, free play, free meals, gifts, show tickets, free rooms for myself, free limo, free movies, free wi-fi, comped rooms that I can give to others (I have certificates that I can give to two couples entitling them to four nights each at Caesars), shopping sprees, trips, airfare, and more.

[Rob.Singer]

If you are disciplined, you should use the player's card in most situations.

I will say this, however, in defense of Rob's attitude if not his instructions -- I have noticed more and more LV casinos, such as the Palms, are not only making point earnings tougher on the better payback machines, but they are actually excluding these machines entirely from all promos, even the small daily drawings. So folks who want to feel as if they have a shot at drawings and take-home minor trash have to make the decision to play inferior payback vp. Playing the better machines at the Palms is in essence the same as not using your card. You derive nothing from it other than providing the casino with your profile as someone who knows how to play.

My point is that this is the direction in which slot clubs are headed. If you play the positive machines, you may as well not use your card. There is no point to it, and you may actually be hurting your offers.

If you posted that on vpFree, you'd be sued for all the resulting heart attacks, and the thread would never end.

[Alan Mendelson]

I've always used a slot card since retiring in 2009. I don't play that much enough for it to be generating any meaningful offers any longer and I use very little of what gets mailed. But I do get some benefits.

Wow, Rob... you don't get any meaningful offers and you use "very little" of what gets mailed? So why bother using your cards? Are you addicted?

[Rob.Singer]

I wouldn't call it being addicted, but you are damn right that I am going to have my card inserted for every push of the button and every throw of the dice. If I didn't I would be giving away money whether it be in the form of cash back, free play, free meals, gifts, show tickets, free rooms for myself, free limo, free movies, free wi-fi, comped rooms that I can give to others (I have certificates that I can give to two couples entitling them to four nights each at Caesars), shopping sprees, trips, airfare, and more.

Back full circle again. You can't stop yourself from craving the offers that are so highly anticipated, and that event has taken over much of your life. It's easy to say "I'm not stupid enough to leave money on the table", but that's exactly what's you're doing in the form of constantly being reeled in like a fish in order to lose. Unless, of course, you can explain how it's THE CASINOS who lose by getting you to keep coming back over and over again?

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob, this thread was about a player who accidentally left behind $2,080 on a machine. And another forum member suggested a method that might prevent similar disasters. And in the course of that discussion you hijacked it and turned it into another defense and justification of the Rob Singer methodology and decided to launch more of your personal attacks on me and anyone else who might disagree with you.

I don't mind you discussing pros and cons of using a players card or belonging to a slot club or what psychological factors there are in casino gambling, but couldn't you start another thread?

And to tell you the truth Rob, I am more concerned about Canucknut's $2,080 loss and ways to prevent similar losses in the future than I am about your amateur diagnosis of the millions of casino-goers who always play with their cards every single time they step into a casino and also take advantage of offers that come in the mail.

You see Rob, I don't walk about in casinos with a $73,000 bankroll in cash in my pocket like you. I'm a small fish and getting a few hundred bucks of free play is a big deal to me. You on the other hand once posted here that you throw one-dollar bills on the ground.

[redietz]

I've gotta start following Rob around with one of those doggie scoopers.

[redietz]

I think it's pretty clear that if you have two virgin accounts, and Account A plays 18K through positive expectation vp and 2K through some garbage slots with a card inserted for both, and Account B plays just the 2K garbage slots with card inserted, Account B will get the better offers.

I don't think that statement is terribly speculative. Now if anyone wants to debate this, or bet on it, let's hear what you have to say.

[arcimede$]

The discussions of addiction are also dominated by Singer's projections. He is addicted and he knows it. He can't stand that other people are able to control their gambling and maximize their returns. So, he attacks them rather then admit it is his own problem.

[Alan Mendelson]

I think it's pretty clear that if you have two virgin accounts, and Account A plays 18K through positive expectation vp and 2K through some garbage slots with a card inserted for both, and Account B plays just the 2K garbage slots with card inserted, Account B will get the better offers.

I don't think that statement is terribly speculative. Now if anyone wants to debate this, or bet on it, let's hear what you have to say.

I think everyone will agree that players who play games with a higher house edge will, dollar for dollar, get better comps/offers than a player on a game with a lower house edge or no house edge. However, I can't say that I agree with your specific example using 18K and 2K of coin-in because I don't know what specific formula that casino or any casino uses. But your basic premise is what we have all come to believe is true.

[Rob.Singer]

All one has to do is read the non-stop whining on vpFree about the reduction and/or elimination of comps and freebies on the 100%+ machines at Palms & Stations. It's as if these idiots forgot why they gamble.The $18k vs. $2k is most probably on the underestimated side.

[Canucknut]

Hi vpguy,

Thanks. Ya, I don't mind telling you my strategy. It was, of course, born out of a lot of the stuff I garnered from Rob Singer's website--combined with a slot strategy I read from John Robison on the Casino City Times website. I'll try and post it for you sometime this weekend. It's worked well for me but naturally I can't guarantee that it will work well for you.

Welcome to the board Canucknut. Sorry about what happened to you what a kick in the head that is! You are now due a huge Royal to get that money back.
Hey I have a question. Would you mind going over your strategy for me as it sounds interesting. I'm always looking for new approaches in my play and yours sounds like something I may want to try. Good luck in the future and again Welcome.

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, if you do not believe mentioning that the slot club card is a very effective tool used by casinos to take more of your money than you'd like instead of it being in place for the purpose of just giving away the shop, you have more of a problem than previously thought. It's not about name-calling; It's about educating you about the truth and your subsequent denial. And forget about canuck's mistake. He knows what he did, he knows why, and your well-wishes and inability to get over it as he has is downright scary.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob: do you know what a yenta is?

[vpguy]

Canucknut,
Thanks. I look forward to seeing it and trying it out. You can post it here or even send me an email at pickup.mark@yahoo.com if you wish. Like I said I always like trying out new strategies and testing them out. Thanks again.

[Alan Mendelson]

Canucknut,
Thanks. I look forward to seeing it and trying it out. You can post it here

Yes, please post it here and start a new thread. I too am interested.