All or Nothing

[Alan Mendelson]

my $6000 four Aces on $5 TBP+ actually WAS the result of a special play, and that is the last quad I have hit in 6400+ hands.

Wow. Perhaps our friend Arc would like to tell us the odds of this happening -- assuming you played the hands properly, Rob.

[Rob.Singer]

So many justifications....so little sense. Loss leaders? Really?? So you agree--that casinos only have slot club cards to make it an easier decision for the player to come in and lose money? And how smart is that. You say this "rest" of the world knows this, yet what kind of person allows themself to continually be reeled in knowing they will most likely lose even MORE money? Yes, an ADDICTED person whose palms sweat profusely when they anxiously open those highly anticipated mail offers, and as they first catch that long-awaited glimpse of Whiskey Pete's on the way in from Calif.

You see Alan, it's all tied in, and the casino works people like you like puppets. They know you just can't say NO, so they yank your chain with all those juicy offers, knowing how you have a long history of losing while being oh so proud of that sacred 7-Stars card players like you cherish.

I don't believe you. Years ago there were no slot clubs, but a player like you still would have run back & forth to LV because you would have had the gambling bug just as bad as you have it today. You just wouldn't have lost as much because they wouldn't have been able to rope you in to play so often.

You didn't answer the question: where have I said not to use a slot club card?

[Alan Mendelson]

So you agree--that casinos only have slot club cards to make it an easier decision for the player to come in and lose money?

You didn't answer the question: where have I said not to use a slot club card?

You have a very critical view of the world, Rob, as if you feel "the man is out to get you."
I think you are taking players clubs and using players cards a bit too seriously. It is not a great evil that will doom you. It is no more serious than Macy's offering an extra 10% off when you sign up for a Macy's charge card account.

I think you need to consider these overpowering feelings of danger, anger and distrust over players clubs and discuss the use of their cards with a professional. I also suggest that you stay away from casinos for some time. This is not healthy. Going to a casino should be fun and enjoyable and you shouldn't view it as a dastardly plot to rob you and control you through the use of a players club card.

While you never said "not to use a slot club card" you have certainly painted a picture that using one makes you vulnerable to addiction if not outright addicted. Look at what you just wrote, Rob:

You see Alan, it's all tied in, and the casino works people like you like puppets. They know you just can't say NO, so they yank your chain with all those juicy offers, knowing how you have a long history of losing while being oh so proud of that sacred 7-Stars card players like you cherish.

Stay out of the casinos, Rob. I am afraid that you have reached the boiling point. I would also suggest that you remove the guns from your home and turn them in to your local police department.

[arcimede$]

Players care about the so-called here & now because that's exactly how they play, always. As I've said so many times, the math only applies to the casinos. AP's have dove-tailed onto what is then nothing but a theory to them, solely for the purpose of justifying playing too much and too often....ie, to give credence to the addiction brought on by advantage play antics. {SECTION REMOVED BY MODERATOR. A PERSONAL ATTACK AND INAPPROPRIATE.}

Hilariously, Singer once again claims that math only applies to casinos when it is players that are making the bets. The math has to apply to players as well. There is no one else. It is humorous to see Singer squirm like this when everyone knows what I'm saying is the truth..

Special plays are all about giving oneself the opportunity to see that session-ending winner. Critics would say that they give the player less chances, but that's because they don't understand the math and only WANT the plays to cause losing.

You've been asked to provide "the math" that supports your claims. You haven't done it. I know it doesn't exist. You know it doesn't exist. Do you really think others haven't noticed you never support your claims? The fact is I provided "the math" in previous threads. I think it's obvious by now you are lying.

Anyone who plays understands that when you're at a machine, you will never attain any type of long term because only the casino holds that card. So what can you do?

Of course people can reach the "long term". That being a number of hands where the probability of winning is extremely high. I guess Singer thinks he's smarter than all the math departments in the world. He isn't. His claim is provably wrong. Only a complete moron would make such an idiotic claim. The math to do this is complicated but well documented.

That's why the special plays were developed. They have ended many sessions--some with huge profits--and never have cost a losing session. Why?

Well, you could be the luckiest person on the planet ... or you could be a pathological liar. I'm going with the latter.

Alan, where have I said not to use a slot club card?? What I keep saying is that, in your case for example, you get so giddy over all the free stuff and invites etc., and that's exactly how the casinos want you to feel. You act like these casinos like to pay people for beating them at the machines! I'm also saying that they are not giving you these things out of the kindness of their hearts. I don't know if you are currently winning or losing, but you can be sure that these rope 'em in offers and freebies make the casinos LOTS of money, simply because players are too addicted to the "free" things and are unable to stay out of the casinos because of them. So what's that lead to? Of course....LOSING OVERALL for almost every player who gets caught up in all that nonsense!

Except you of course ... bwah haha haha haha. Do you ever think about how illogical you are?

[Vegas_lover]

So many justifications....so little sense.

Wow Rob, this is the first time you actually describe your own contributions pretty well.

Rob's very educated statement:
And how smart is that. You say this "rest" of the world knows this, yet what kind of person allows themself to continually be reeled in knowing they will most likely lose even MORE money? Yes, an ADDICTED person whose palms sweat profusely when they anxiously open those highly anticipated mail offers.

Short translation:
Anybody using a players club card is an addict.

Well Mr. Know It All. I go to Vegas two times a year (my vacation), because of the players club memberships I get free rooms and some free play. In total, I spend less in Las Vegas than I would going on a trip to Brazil. I don't visit casinos in my country because they are no fun at all. You are in casinos way, way more than I am and I'm certain you run a lot more money through the machines than I do. You don't use a players card, I do. And I'm the addicted one.......

[Vegas_lover]

I think you need to consider these overpowering feelings of danger, anger and distrust over players clubs and discuss the use of their cards with a professional. I also suggest that you stay away from casinos for some time. This is not healthy. Going to a casino should be fun and enjoyable and you shouldn't view it as a dastardly plot to rob you and control you through the use of a players club card.

Stay out of the casinos, Rob. I am afraid that you have reached the boiling point. I would also suggest that you remove the guns from your home and turn them in to your local police department.

And since he won all that money and retired he doesn't have to go back to these evil places out there to rob him. But, he still does and reports about his gambling adventures back here. For somebody who hates casinos so intensely and plays differtently now he's retired (now he plays for entertainment?) one has to wonder why he feels the urge to play at all? Could that be addiction???????? Count in all the time he spends here telling people they are addicts and playing VP the wrong way I have to conclude gambling still is his main focus during his retirement.......

[Alan Mendelson]

Interesting comment that you addressed to Rob, Vegas_lover:

Well Mr. Know It All. I go to Vegas two times a year (my vacation), because of the players club memberships I get free rooms and some free play. In total, I spend less in Las Vegas than I would going on a trip to Brazil. I don't visit casinos in my country because they are no fun at all. You are in casinos way, way more than I am and I'm certain you run a lot more money through the machines than I do. You don't use a players card, I do. And I'm the addicted one.......

Earlier in this thread, I asked:

So I have to ask which is worse: a player who goes to a casino without an offer, or a player who goes to a casino with an offer? Rob, did you actually go to a casino without an offer?

By the way, Rob says he plays with a card now as a retiree, but not when he was playing his "system" or "strategy" when he was a professional. Imagine that -- a professional intentionally leaving money on the table?

But now Rob is not a professional, so he plays with a players card. Okay Rob, I was never a professional -- but for me to use a players card signals some kind of problem?

[vpguy]

The start of this thread was about going so many hands without a Quad and for me this seems to happen at least one day per Vegas trip. I go to LV about 4 times a year and the past 3 trips I went one whole day and once a day and a half without hitting one single Quad. Why? I have no idea. These Quad droughts are killers though both for once thought process and also their bankroll.
Now about the slot card and use of one: Alan lets be clear here, Rob only said he would not play with a card when he plays his single play strategy because he didn't want his play tracked and some hotels were giving him backoffs with his play. Rob always said he did use his card always when he played his RTT and ARTT strategies which is the strategies most rec players play when using one of Robs strategies.
Also I for one hope that Rob and everyone else post their trip results here for us to read as I do enjoy reading them. Do I play with a slot card when playing yes of course because I get room, food and free play offers. But I don't continue play or play more than I should just to put points on my card. I go into every session with a goal in mind and once reached win or lose I then change machines or casinos. Just because a certain casino may be offering extra points day etc., does not make me play more just for the points as I treat all of that as just being extra as my main goal is to win money when playing not points.
Finally the special plays. I do use a few of them like I hold Aces always in every game over 2 non suited High Cards. In DDB when dealt 2 pairs with one being Face cards and the other low cards I do hold only the face cards. Yes I miss out on some FH that way which cost me 40 or 30 credits but there have been times when I also have hit a Quad of 250 credits too and ended the session with a win.

[arcimede$]

I went over 5 hours without a natural quad the last time I played. An unusual event to be sure but almost every regular gambler will experience these streaks from time to time. If you didn't the games wouldn't be random. We also experience short periods of time, less than an hour, where we hit 5-10 quads. It all averages out.

[slingshot]

The start of this thread was about going so many hands without a Quad and for me this seems to happen at least one day per Vegas trip. I go to LV about 4 times a year and the past 3 trips I went one whole day and once a day and a half without hitting one single Quad. Why? I have no idea. These Quad droughts are killers though both for once thought process and also their bankroll.
Now about the slot card and use of one: Alan lets be clear here, Rob only said he would not play with a card when he plays his single play strategy because he didn't want his play tracked and some hotels were giving him backoffs with his play. Rob always said he did use his card always when he played his RTT and ARTT strategies which is the strategies most rec players play when using one of Robs strategies.
Also I for one hope that Rob and everyone else post their trip results here for us to read as I do enjoy reading them. Do I play with a slot card when playing yes of course because I get room, food and free play offers. But I don't continue play or play more than I should just to put points on my card. I go into every session with a goal in mind and once reached win or lose I then change machines or casinos. Just because a certain casino may be offering extra points day etc., does not make me play more just for the points as I treat all of that as just being extra as my main goal is to win money when playing not points.
Finally the special plays. I do use a few of them like I hold Aces always in every game over 2 non suited High Cards. In DDB when dealt 2 pairs with one being Face cards and the other low cards I do hold only the face cards. Yes I miss out on some FH that way which cost me 40 or 30 credits but there have been times when I also have hit a Quad of 250 credits too and ended the session with a win.

I was just wondering if on these days you kinda go on the defensive and just try to win 20 credits on BP?It has made it possible for me to keep going, although with a small win-better than losing.

[arcimede$]

By the way, Rob says he plays with a card now as a retiree, but not when he was playing his "system" or "strategy" when he was a professional. Imagine that -- a professional intentionally leaving money on the table?

Which only demonstrates he was never a professional.

But now Rob is not a professional, so he plays with a players card. Okay Rob, I was never a professional -- but for me to use a players card signals some kind of problem?

Rob's lies have always had the intent to attract people who tend to be suspicious. Rob plays into their suspicions with his lies so he can manipulate them. Almost everything Singer says is a lie so we constantly catch him at inconsistencies like player's card use The chances that he ever won at VP are extremely low.

[redietz]

The odd "once-a-professional-now-a-recreational-player jargon" is strangely reminiscent of "once-was-an-alcoholic-now-a-social-drinker." Anyone else notice that? Players' cards must serve as an equivalent to mixers.

[Rob.Singer]

Wow Rob, this is the first time you actually describe your own contributions pretty well.

Rob's very educated statement:
And how smart is that. You say this "rest" of the world knows this, yet what kind of person allows themself to continually be reeled in knowing they will most likely lose even MORE money? Yes, an ADDICTED person whose palms sweat profusely when they anxiously open those highly anticipated mail offers.

Short translation:
Anybody using a players club card is an addict.

Well Mr. Know It All. I go to Vegas two times a year (my vacation), because of the players club memberships I get free rooms and some free play. In total, I spend less in Las Vegas than I would going on a trip to Brazil. I don't visit casinos in my country because they are no fun at all. You are in casinos way, way more than I am and I'm certain you run a lot more money through the machines than I do. You don't use a players card, I do. And I'm the addicted one.......

I'll ask you also: where did you read that I do not use a player's card? I always do--at least since I've retired. It's all about responsible use, and not allowing the casinos to control you. Of course, they do control almost every player with a card. As a twice a year visitor, you really don 't count. But if I lived in Brazil (and I've been there multiple times) I'd sure want to get out of there more than just twice.

[Rob.Singer]

Obviously, the slot card discussion strikes one of the more sensitive nerves in gamblers who are controlled by them. Nuff said. So let's ask Alan this: I've been reading this forum on and off for maybe four years? Why, with all your denials on having a gambling problem, is this section your most prolific area? Why do you contribute so anemically to all your other human interest sections?

I'll take a stab: GAMBLING ADDICTION! It's even got me wondering if you're in the same rut as Dancer, who can't stop working because he can't stop gambling. We got up early today and went to Truckee to ride a 1500' zip line, and then we went for an hour snowmobile ride....and we LIVE NEAR MULTIPLE NEVADA CASINOS, yet I may play once every two weeks! You, otoh, spend every spare minute on various gambling forums and telling us of your many continuous gambling trips, incidents, and wondrous questions about it. Yet you've never, ever told anything about a vacation or getaway unless it involved some type of gambling action. And you don't see a problem? I guess I'd shy away from it too if I had it that bad.....Arci has a reason to be like he is--so much time and so little life. But let me guess--you'll go to the ends of the earth defending why nothing interests you but gambling.

We're getting ready to go to Reno for dinner and watch the NBA all star game. Whatcyou guys doing--scanning all the gambling forums just to get a virtual fix?

[Alan Mendelson]

Why, with all your denials on having a gambling problem, is this section your most prolific area? Why do you contribute so anemically to all your other human interest sections?

Rob, you silly boy, this website has more than 300 pages of content, including 886 videos of which fewer than 40 videos (nearly all feature you, Rob) concern any kind of gambling information. In addition, I produce a weekly TV show which has NO gambling content, and I am producing three new half hour TV infomercials for clients which have NO gambling content.

If I am addicted to anything, it's making money as a TV producer and host. I probably work 12 to 14 hours a day, and stop by to make sure you are behaving yourself here, between phone calls and edits and during production breaks.

So far, I have about 3,600 posts on all of my forums combined. You Rob, have 1,551 posts. I think its fair and appropriate that as the moderator, the host, and the producer of the show and website that I should have a bit more than twice as many posts as you have.

Of course some will question why you have 1,551 posts here? I will say, however, that you are certainly welcome to post here. If anything, Rob, you should give me credit for allowing you to post freely (with the rare exception when you go too far with your insults) and for showing the world exactly what your special plays and controversial views are. This is a luxury I don't think any other media outlet has ever afforded you. And I certainly have never banned you. Perhaps you will tell us how many sites have banned you? And how many other sites show videos showing your beliefs?

Rob: don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[arcimede$]

Singer used to claim that anyone who used a player's card was addicted. Now, it's only others that are addicted when using their cards. Typical Singer nonsense.

[slingshot]

You guys each have a valid point, in some ways. The important thing is that it's caused me to reexamine my routine, thoughts, and addiction to the game. I had my first reasonable cutback on my actions this past week. I took my wife out for Valentines, then took her shopping, and then we went to hear the Isaacs at our convention center (religious group) while celebrating my birthday the second of the three days. I also went and took care of some personal business while my wife was shopping-something I put off before. Then, and only then did I go for a session and to my good luck, all the money I spent was replenished by 4 A's after drawing to a two-card royal which was also two of four high cards. I even paid for the gas! Not saying anyone else but myself had an addiction-and this week was a big step to me and a thanks for opening my eyes.

[Alan Mendelson]

Slingshot, if you have an addiction or if you think you have an addiction, you should immediately seek help. You have mentioned several times about having an addiction, so please take care of it.

And it seems, from your posts, that you are going to a casino almost on a daily basis. You don't have to play high denominations to have an addition. It seems as though you must play your nickel games.

And for my friend Rob: I had $325 of free play today that I didn't use. Just wasn't in the mood to make the trip. You know Rob, that was a lot of points I gave up by not playing that $325 with my card in the machine.

[Vegas_lover]

I'll ask you also: where did you read that I do not use a player's card? I always do--at least since I've retired. It's all about responsible use, and not allowing the casinos to control you. Of course, they do control almost every player with a card. As a twice a year visitor, you really don 't count. But if I lived in Brazil (and I've been there multiple times) I'd sure want to get out of there more than just twice.

Since you've retired blablabla. Playing professionaly vs recreationally shouldn't make any difference at all. Using a players card while playing professionally would have made more sense than using it now.

I'm a twice a year visitor but I don't count? Hey, what's happening here? I'm using a players card so I have to be addicted by your own statements. A typical Singer diversion again. Everytime you have NO REAL answer you go back to insults and confrontation. I can understand why you need to carry a gun. I don't believe there's a whole lot of people out there thinking you're a charming guy.

Obviously I count enough (in Vegas terms) to comp me rooms and some meals and still I spend less than I would on vacations to other locations.

Somehow your brain shows signs of major failure. I never lived in Brazil and would go there for a vacation. So I don't need to get out of Brazil more than twice a year. Just another typical Singer attempt for an insult.

Since you're one of the main posters here, spend time at casinos at least once every two weeks AND you use a players card, with your logic, you need some serious help. You've got gambling addiction written all over your forehead.

[arcimede$]

The truth is Singer is extremely addicted. His pointing the finger at others is simple projection.