Crazy Memorial Weekend Casino Trip Report

[slingshot]

So I take my free play and try for that. Sometimes she wants a crack at the penny machines (she screams when the bonus rounds hit) so I play them after winning $60. Then, it's off shopping she goes.I think you did great. Raising the limits a little while still maintaining a winning amount requires MORE discipline because the atmosphere lulls you into giving it all back.. Very few people can do that.

[Alan Mendelson]

They won't combine the Seven Stars signature experiences (if that's what you're referring to). They are very strict about that one.

However, I know a way to combine offers, though it's hit-and-miss if it works. I don't want to post publicly how to do it.

Right... can't combine 7 Stars Experiences. But you can combine a 7 Stars Experience along with another offer. For example for 2012-13 I combined a show tickets offer with a 7Stars experience.

For 2013-14 I am over 300,000 tier points now and I have three experiences -- Level 1, 2, and 3 to use and must use them on three different trips. But each can be combined with another offer such as a free play offer, or gift card.

[regnis]

Last week, at the Horseshoe Indiana, I was waiting for my friend to arrive. I noticed that all the banks of VP that I usually play were out of service. They have a lot of machines so there were still a lot of games to play, but the 4 banks that I mainly play were all out of service. So while waiting for my friend I sit down at a plain old $! Bonus game and get 4 aces on the 1st hand. I look at my balance and it's only $245. So I look at the pay table---they had reduced it to $150 for all quads on that bank. That bank had previously had the normal pay table.

So now I'm thinking that they are reducing the pay tables on all the out of service games. Next time I go there, I will definitely verify the tables before playing. If they are further reduced from an already bad game, GOODBYE!!!

Follow up--was there today for a meeting. Went down to check out the paytables. They have been reduced--or at least changed--as I was fearful. Most of the $1 Bonus now pay $150 for all quads. No bonus for aces or 2-4's. On the $5 games, all quads pay $175. Arci--you can tell me if this is mathematically good or bad, but either way it maked the game suck.

Then I see a friend playing Ultimate X. I sit down next to him and see he's getting no points. The reader isn't working. I call for slot tech (there is a button on every machine). 20 minutes--nuthin. I try again--nuthin. I press the button on every machine on that end of the casino--nuthin. Finally I grab someone and ask him to fix. He tries and fails.

Now my friend goes to high limit room. I decide to play a little with him. But then I see the pay table for Bonus and decide not to play. Then I see he again is getting no points. I try for slot tech again-same result. So I grab a suit and ask for a host. Nuthin. Grab another suit--nuthin. Finally as we are leaving, a host comes over. I complain to her about the reduced pay tables, the failure of the slot techs coming, the time it took for her to come, and explain to her that because of the reduced pay tables I have refused to play. She says she'll relay that info. Didn't ask for my name--didn't ask for my card. In other words--the big blow off.

Typical Caesars customer service.

[Alan Mendelson]

Follow up--was there today for a meeting. Went down to check out the paytables. They have been reduced--or at least changed--as I was fearful. Most of the $1 Bonus now pay $150 for all quads. No bonus for aces or 2-4's. On the $5 games, all quads pay $175. Arci--you can tell me if this is mathematically good or bad, but either way it maked the game suck.

Is this paytable similar to what you were talking about?

[regnis]

Yep--and that looks like my usual hand-lol. Previously regular quads 125; 2's, 3's, 4's-200; aces 400. Again, I don't know the math but this may as well be JOB which is too boring for me. Even regular Bonus was a little boring but helped stay alive with the 2 pair etc

[Alan Mendelson]

I think this game pays 99.66% which is better than traditional Bonus and even better than JOB. This photo is at Rincon where this game is only available on the $100/coin machines... at least it was about a year or so ago when I first took the photo and wrote about it on the "Video Poker News and Commentary" page: http://alanbestbuys.com/id132.html

[arcimede$]

Alan, you are correct if the rest of the pay table is the normal 8-5 BP. The return is 99.66%. You can find the return of most games at:

http://www.west-point.org/users/usma...228/V/PayV.htm

[regnis]

What would it be at $150, as only the $5.00 pays 175? I still wouldn't play it as I need the bonus hands to keep my attention. But apparently this isn't necessarily a bad change in a ER sense.

And I guess I should add what is the return with the 400 aces and 200 2-4's and 125 for other quads. Doesn't matter as far as whether I play, just informational for my curiosity.

[Alan Mendelson]

An 8-5 bonus game with 400 for the aces, 200 for the 2-4s and 125 for other quads is the standard "bonus game" with a 99.2% return.

[arcimede$]

What would it be at $150, as only the $5.00 pays 175? I still wouldn't play it as I need the bonus hands to keep my attention. But apparently this isn't necessarily a bad change in a ER sense.

The answer is at the link I provided ... around 98.5%.

[Alan Mendelson]

That "Bonus game" with all quads paying 150 coins was one of the changes that Rincon made when they downgraded their VP games. I reported that here on the website and a few days later there was such an uproar that Rincon removed those games. At the same time they downgraded JOB from 9/5 to 8/5 but they left the 8/5 games

Surprisingly you will see players at Rincon playing 8/5 JOB when 8/5 Bonus with the "correct paytable" is on the same machine. Either they don't look or they don't know better.

Now I am wondering if that Bonus game with the 175 quads is still available on the high limit machines?? Next time I go there I'll have to remember to check. Id you're wondering... the answer is "no." I've never played it.

[regnis]

Now another guy that plays in the high limit room there--he usually plays 23 hands on a 50 way game for dollars--tells me they are removing all of the big VP machines in the high limit room because they are not profitable. How can they not be profitable? They get a heavy volume as there are not many machines in that room. That flys in the face of the math!!! If those machines with their heavy volume don't achieve the long term results, how can any one person do so?

[Alan Mendelson]

Profit is a matter of "percentages." When Rincon downgraded their VP paytables all of the machines were negative... but they weren't negative enough.

VP doesnt have the edge that slots have. It's that simple.

Rincon's expansion includes more gaming space, but I wonder how many more slots will go in and how many more VP machines will go in??

[Dan Druff]

I taught an old man playing next to me at Laughlin to play 8-5 Bonus instead of JOB, since they were otherwise the identical pay table with bonus offering extra on quads.

I think Harrah's is smart to do it this way, as they attract both the savvy gamblers and get extra from the casual players who don't know better.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan, it's funny how you say "the casual players who don't know better." About a week ago when I was playing the $5 Aces and Faces game in the high limit room, there was another player in the seat on my left who was talking to the player on his left ... so it was easy for me to overhear the conversation. The player on my left was talking about everything he learns from going on videopoker.com and he was talking about correct strategy and which holds to make. It was a lengthy conversation. Meanwhile, the game he was playing was the 8/5 Jacks or Better at $25 per push of the button (the $5 game). Do you think he forgot to look at the pay table?

The truth is every time I go to Rincon, before I put money in the slot, I check the pay table. You never know when they might make a change.

[Rob.Singer]

videopoker.com is all you needed to know in order to make sense out of that conversation, etc. It's nothing more than a collection of hacks, liars, and hypocrites--all led by the hand by Bob Dancer who of course gets PAID to spew his AP illogic & shamelessly advertise all his wares there, that radio show heard by maybe three people now that he turned his wife into his arch enemy, and his classes---and administered by the wimpiest creep in the business. No, it doesn't surprise me one bit that you sat near one of those morons who didn't know a thing about what they were doing.